nicaragua
Are you Euros better now?
It's true that Hitler originally did not want to invade England, but it had NOTHING to do with being worried about the British Military. He felt that the English were a kindred race to his own.
Now, the Americans lost A LOT in the convoys shipping supplies to the British. Did you forget about that? While the United States wasn't at war with anyone, its factories WERE. Where was all of this being shipped to? England and Russia. The Germans were very aware of this. The easiest proof to point to were the U-Boats all over the shipping lanes of the North Atlantic, and secret weapons projects the Germans were trying to develop. Long range jet bombers and more evolved missiles (than the V2). The intention was to bomb the US East Coast, home of most of their factories.
The Japanese were also aware of the US resource and production might. They were busy trying to send "Balloon Bombs" across the Pacific, hoping to start large forest fires in the Western US. Few made it, and they went virutally unreported. They also had a large submarine built with a water tight hanger. From that they launched a few aircraft that would bomb forests in the US, trying to start fires and create panic. It was so late in the war by then though, it wasn't effective. If you visit The Air and Space Museum in DC and at Dulles Airport in Northern Virginia, there's a nice display showing much of this.
The USSR was given quite a few tanks, artillery, planes, etc. No, they weren't top of the line versus the Focke-Wulfe 190's and Tiger Tanks that they were facing, but it was certainly something. They found some very interesting uses of our bombers. It bought the Russians enough time to figure out how to fight the Germans and produce planes and tanks capable of taking them on.
Side note: Have you ever looked at an old Soviet Bear Bomber? Have you noticed the resemblace it has to the American WW2 bombers? Well... We had some good designs, and they tokk them much further when they built their own.
Face it. The Russians would have completely collapsed very early, much as they did in the first world war (as Hitler was hoping), and then there would have been a very BLOODY Battle of Britain, and not just an air war as you've read about. Indeed, the Americans DID save the day.
I'm now waiting to hear from the French about how they had the Germans on the ropes and they didn't need anyone.
It's true that Hitler originally did not want to invade England, but it had NOTHING to do with being worried about the British Military. He felt that the English were a kindred race to his own.
Now, the Americans lost A LOT in the convoys shipping supplies to the British. Did you forget about that? While the United States wasn't at war with anyone, its factories WERE. Where was all of this being shipped to? England and Russia. The Germans were very aware of this. The easiest proof to point to were the U-Boats all over the shipping lanes of the North Atlantic, and secret weapons projects the Germans were trying to develop. Long range jet bombers and more evolved missiles (than the V2). The intention was to bomb the US East Coast, home of most of their factories.
The Japanese were also aware of the US resource and production might. They were busy trying to send "Balloon Bombs" across the Pacific, hoping to start large forest fires in the Western US. Few made it, and they went virutally unreported. They also had a large submarine built with a water tight hanger. From that they launched a few aircraft that would bomb forests in the US, trying to start fires and create panic. It was so late in the war by then though, it wasn't effective. If you visit The Air and Space Museum in DC and at Dulles Airport in Northern Virginia, there's a nice display showing much of this.
The USSR was given quite a few tanks, artillery, planes, etc. No, they weren't top of the line versus the Focke-Wulfe 190's and Tiger Tanks that they were facing, but it was certainly something. They found some very interesting uses of our bombers. It bought the Russians enough time to figure out how to fight the Germans and produce planes and tanks capable of taking them on.
Side note: Have you ever looked at an old Soviet Bear Bomber? Have you noticed the resemblace it has to the American WW2 bombers? Well... We had some good designs, and they tokk them much further when they built their own.
Face it. The Russians would have completely collapsed very early, much as they did in the first world war (as Hitler was hoping), and then there would have been a very BLOODY Battle of Britain, and not just an air war as you've read about. Indeed, the Americans DID save the day.
I'm now waiting to hear from the French about how they had the Germans on the ropes and they didn't need anyone.
Last edited by bigdroo (2007-04-16 14:31:44)
my grandma told me stories of seeing nazi submarines off the beaches when she was growing up in the dominican republic as a kid.
Well ditto here bro. My granpa was prisoner Sachsenhausen in Poland. And USA is not the only country that's lost brave men. Norway, my country, was invaded by the germans but we fought back bravely.Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
Can't believe my grampa almost had to die for idiots like you. Ingratitude is a perfect word for it.CruZ4dR wrote:
No instead, why don't YOU go fuck yourself?CyrusTheVirus wrote:
What ingratitude. Next time you're whining out in desperation for our help you can go fuck yourselves.
You probably don't know shit about WW2.
The nazis could easily have been taken without the US, but nono, the americans they came, and they blew up some japanese houses and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people. You patriot american dickheads make me sick.
You americans think you're the whole center of it, eh? It's all about you.
In my opinion, we didn't need your help to blow shit up, the UK was pwning in the air, forcing germans back despite them being outnumbered and far away from base and refuel.
Germany was fighting a war they couldn't win.
But of course, you have your oversized piece of the victory-cake.. Axis was already losing when you came.
I cant believe this topic is still going on.
The ALLIES won the war.
Were the British part of the Allies? Yes.
Were the Americans part of the Allies? Yes.
Were the French part of the Allies? Yes.
Were the Canadians part of the Allies? Yes.
Were the Russians (Soviet Union) part of the Allies? Yes.
Were the Brazilians part of the Allies? Yes.
Were the Americans part of the Allies? Yes.
Were many other countries part of the Allies? Yes.
Technically, any country who opposed the Axis powers in WW2 were a part of the Allied Forces.
Does it matter that one country contributed more to the war effort than another? No.
Will it make any difference if one country is attributed to winning WW2 single handedly? No.
Millions of soldiers died for the worlds freedom from Nazi Germany and fanatical Japanese rule just so dickheads such as you can argue about "who can claim they did more in WW2".
Millions more died as a result of torture, execution, friendly fire and everything else related to the war.
Respect them, remember them, shut up arguing, and acknowledge the fact that the world isn't under Nazi rule.
Because at the end of the day, that is more important than deciding the entire shit this topic is all about.
The ALLIES won the war.
Were the British part of the Allies? Yes.
Were the Americans part of the Allies? Yes.
Were the French part of the Allies? Yes.
Were the Canadians part of the Allies? Yes.
Were the Russians (Soviet Union) part of the Allies? Yes.
Were the Brazilians part of the Allies? Yes.
Were the Americans part of the Allies? Yes.
Were many other countries part of the Allies? Yes.
Technically, any country who opposed the Axis powers in WW2 were a part of the Allied Forces.
Does it matter that one country contributed more to the war effort than another? No.
Will it make any difference if one country is attributed to winning WW2 single handedly? No.
Millions of soldiers died for the worlds freedom from Nazi Germany and fanatical Japanese rule just so dickheads such as you can argue about "who can claim they did more in WW2".
Millions more died as a result of torture, execution, friendly fire and everything else related to the war.
Respect them, remember them, shut up arguing, and acknowledge the fact that the world isn't under Nazi rule.
Because at the end of the day, that is more important than deciding the entire shit this topic is all about.
I was responding to his "the war was almost over" when the US joined. Hard to say that when the Axis occupied 26 different nations. Do you think the war was only fought in Europe also?PureFodder wrote:
Erm, 4 of those countries aren't even in Europe. Most of the rest had been in Axis hands for ages.
But since you wanted to go there. Yes 4 of the 22 nations were not in Europe.
- AUSTRIA -Europe
- THE NETHERLANDS -Europe
- ALBANIA -Europe
- MOROCCO
- CZECHOSLOVAKIA -Europe
- FRANCE -Europe
- GREECE -Europe
- ALGERIA
- POLAND -Europe
- HUNGARY -Europe
- LITHUANIA -Europe
- TUNISIA
- DENMARK -Europe
- ROMANIA -Europe
- LATVIA -Europe
- LIBYA
- NORWAY -Europe
- BULGARIA -Europe
- ESTONIA -Europe
- BELGIUM -Europe
- YUGOSLAVIA -Europe
- FINLAND -Europe
Xbone Stormsurgezz
cant believe my 2 granddads had to almost die for idiots like you to try and take credit.Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
Can't believe my grampa almost had to die for idiots like you. Ingratitude is a perfect word for it.CruZ4dR wrote:
No instead, why don't YOU go fuck yourself?CyrusTheVirus wrote:
What ingratitude. Next time you're whining out in desperation for our help you can go fuck yourselves.
You probably don't know shit about WW2.
The nazis could easily have been taken without the US, but nono, the americans they came, and they blew up some japanese houses and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people. You patriot american dickheads make me sick.
cant beleieve none of us were alive during ww2 to be conitinuing this retarded argument/
Your Gramps joined a fight against tyranny. He was fighting for Americans also. I don't think I should have to remind you that the battle had been brought to us also. Gratitude is not needed for standing with your allies. Especially since over the last few years they have stood with us. Obligation does not compel greatness. A good mans resolve does.Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
Can't believe my grampa almost had to die for idiots like you. Ingratitude is a perfect word for it.CruZ4dR wrote:
No instead, why don't YOU go fuck yourself?CyrusTheVirus wrote:
What ingratitude. Next time you're whining out in desperation for our help you can go fuck yourselves.
You probably don't know shit about WW2.
The nazis could easily have been taken without the US, but nono, the americans they came, and they blew up some japanese houses and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people. You patriot american dickheads make me sick.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
About the planes your wrong. They developed them and then Hitler said he would rather spend the money on V2s. Only 200 of the jet planes were made.hollabackitsobi wrote:
Also, Monty or whoever the fuck would have no one to save if the Americans didn't decide to join the war on the European front and save your asses. Also, if the war hadn't ended so quickly, (it would have taken longer without AMerica contributing to the allied force) the German Luftwaffe had jets in development that would have lol'd at RAF Spitfires.
Just to make my stance clear. I think based on historical evidence, Russia played the most important part in defeating Germany, Americas involvement stopped Russia steam rolling all of continental Europe into a large soviet block. No matter what though an invasion of the UK by the Germans would never happen. Thus the Americas nor the Russians saved the UK. The UK was held throughout by the commonwealth.
Not sure how you can say that with absolute certainty.Vilham wrote:
No matter what though an invasion of the UK by the Germans would never happen.
Because Hitler scrapped the whole plan. He was content with V2ing us. Then if need be he would rather ally with the UK than invade it.
Unlike the D-day invasion and its prep, he couldnt build thousands of landing crafts. We were bombing the shit out of his factories every day. Whereas the US could just build build build without threat. The economic power of the US is what made D-day succeed. Hitler didnt have that power.
Unlike the D-day invasion and its prep, he couldnt build thousands of landing crafts. We were bombing the shit out of his factories every day. Whereas the US could just build build build without threat. The economic power of the US is what made D-day succeed. Hitler didnt have that power.
Last edited by Vilham (2007-04-16 15:46:20)
It's sad to see that so many Americans doesn't know what took place at WWII. The Americans didn't go into the war until the Nazis where beginning to loose. Don't get me wrong; I'm more than happy that they did, but the reel heroes in this war is not America, it's England then Russia and the the Americans. The problem properly is that the Americans try to take credit for a lot of things that they are really not responsible for. Like I said...sad sad sad.
You seemed to forget the flood of supplies going across the pond, or the meeting in bunkers under London with American generals....but I assume you just left that out by mistake.mInISecher wrote:
Like I said...sad sad sad.
To be fair, the allies that were fighting did pay the US for all those supplies. When we ran out of money we said fuck it, have loads of money that we don't even have yet. America earned money, the Allies died lots. Oddly when the Germans started sinking ships in the Atlantic and killing americans they didn't declaire war on Germany. I seem to remember that after Pearl harbour the Germans had killed more Americans than the Japaneese had.bigdroo wrote:
Are you Euros better now?
It's true that Hitler originally did not want to invade England, but it had NOTHING to do with being worried about the British Military. He felt that the English were a kindred race to his own.
Now, the Americans lost A LOT in the convoys shipping supplies to the British. Did you forget about that? While the United States wasn't at war with anyone, its factories WERE. Where was all of this being shipped to? England and Russia. The Germans were very aware of this. The easiest proof to point to were the U-Boats all over the shipping lanes of the North Atlantic, and secret weapons projects the Germans were trying to develop. Long range jet bombers and more evolved missiles (than the V2). The intention was to bomb the US East Coast, home of most of their factories.
The Japanese were also aware of the US resource and production might. They were busy trying to send "Balloon Bombs" across the Pacific, hoping to start large forest fires in the Western US. Few made it, and they went virutally unreported. They also had a large submarine built with a water tight hanger. From that they launched a few aircraft that would bomb forests in the US, trying to start fires and create panic. It was so late in the war by then though, it wasn't effective. If you visit The Air and Space Museum in DC and at Dulles Airport in Northern Virginia, there's a nice display showing much of this.
If the US had joined right at the begining of WW2, millions of lives would probably have been saved.
America still owed the French for the American war of independence.bigdroo wrote:
I'm now waiting to hear from the French about how they had the Germans on the ropes and they didn't need anyone.
oh lord...PureFodder wrote:
America still owed the French for the American war of independence.
1,400 Me-262s were produced before the war was over, and that's not including other jets the Germans had, such as Ar-234s and Ho-233s.Vilham wrote:
About the planes your wrong. They developed them and then Hitler said he would rather spend the money on V2s. Only 200 of the jet planes were made.hollabackitsobi wrote:
Also, Monty or whoever the fuck would have no one to save if the Americans didn't decide to join the war on the European front and save your asses. Also, if the war hadn't ended so quickly, (it would have taken longer without AMerica contributing to the allied force) the German Luftwaffe had jets in development that would have lol'd at RAF Spitfires.
America repaid France for the Revolutionary War through WWI and WWII.
Anyways, as has been argued earlier, the U.S. played an equal part in winning the war with the other two Allies.
Without the U.S., Britain wouldn't have been able to finance their war, or build their military so easily. This would have caused Britain to be unable to mount an effective resistance. Also, the support they gave to Russia was invaluable in sustaining them during the early war.
Without Britain, Russian would have lost the war. Hitler held back just enough because of the British (including having Rommel fight them, not the Russians), that the Russians had enough to desperately hold them off. If Hitler had devoted 100% of German military strength, as opposed to 80-85%, Russia would have lost Moscow by December of 1941 or spring of 1942.
Without Russia, Hitler would have been able to continually devote his Luftwaffe to conquering British skies. With the vast resources in the east under his control, he would have been able to out build the British in airplanes, and eventually won. Without Britain, the entire Old World would have been split up between Germany and Japan, and Hitler would have won the war.
Essentially, losing any one of the three major Allies would have allowed Hitler to claim victory in World War II and destroy the lives of millions more. Each Allies played an integral role to their victory in this conflict, and none should or can claim they were any more significant than the others.
Anyways, as has been argued earlier, the U.S. played an equal part in winning the war with the other two Allies.
Without the U.S., Britain wouldn't have been able to finance their war, or build their military so easily. This would have caused Britain to be unable to mount an effective resistance. Also, the support they gave to Russia was invaluable in sustaining them during the early war.
Without Britain, Russian would have lost the war. Hitler held back just enough because of the British (including having Rommel fight them, not the Russians), that the Russians had enough to desperately hold them off. If Hitler had devoted 100% of German military strength, as opposed to 80-85%, Russia would have lost Moscow by December of 1941 or spring of 1942.
Without Russia, Hitler would have been able to continually devote his Luftwaffe to conquering British skies. With the vast resources in the east under his control, he would have been able to out build the British in airplanes, and eventually won. Without Britain, the entire Old World would have been split up between Germany and Japan, and Hitler would have won the war.
Essentially, losing any one of the three major Allies would have allowed Hitler to claim victory in World War II and destroy the lives of millions more. Each Allies played an integral role to their victory in this conflict, and none should or can claim they were any more significant than the others.
"as few as 200 Me 262s made it to combat units." Hitler scrapped the plane before more than 200 of them were operational.acEofspadEs6313 wrote:
1,400 Me-262s were produced before the war was over, and that's not including other jets the Germans had, such as Ar-234s and Ho-233s.Vilham wrote:
About the planes your wrong. They developed them and then Hitler said he would rather spend the money on V2s. Only 200 of the jet planes were made.hollabackitsobi wrote:
Also, Monty or whoever the fuck would have no one to save if the Americans didn't decide to join the war on the European front and save your asses. Also, if the war hadn't ended so quickly, (it would have taken longer without AMerica contributing to the allied force) the German Luftwaffe had jets in development that would have lol'd at RAF Spitfires.
The Germans had 390 operational Jet powered fighters. With a ratio of 15:10, most of which were bombers.
Last edited by Vilham (2007-04-16 18:28:55)
Ok...Vilham wrote:
"as few as 200 Me 262s made it to combat units." Hitler scrapped the plane before more than 200 of them were operational.acEofspadEs6313 wrote:
1,400 Me-262s were produced before the war was over, and that's not including other jets the Germans had, such as Ar-234s and Ho-233s.Vilham wrote:
About the planes your wrong. They developed them and then Hitler said he would rather spend the money on V2s. Only 200 of the jet planes were made.
200 Me-262s
And them I can't find a rough number on the Ar-234s and He-162.
So, it's more than 200!
EDIT: Arg, didn't see your edit before I posted.
Last edited by acEofspadEs6313 (2007-04-16 18:29:19)
Close this thread asap.
Its inflammatory and completely irrelevant. Europeans fought side by side the U.S. (and vice versa) and in the end, the occupation of western Europe by Nazi Germany was defeated.
Its inflammatory and completely irrelevant. Europeans fought side by side the U.S. (and vice versa) and in the end, the occupation of western Europe by Nazi Germany was defeated.
What's sad is how wrong you are. The Americans officially entered the war in December 1941. Nazi Germany reached their peak in land conquest, WHEN?!?!? Wake up! Late 1942 to early 1943.mInISecher wrote:
It's sad to see that so many Americans doesn't know what took place at WWII. The Americans didn't go into the war until the Nazis where beginning to loose. Don't get me wrong; I'm more than happy that they did, but the reel heroes in this war is not America, it's England then Russia and the the Americans. The problem properly is that the Americans try to take credit for a lot of things that they are really not responsible for. Like I said...sad sad sad.
The Russians weren't really able to push the Germans back until after the Battle of Stalingrad. When was that again?
The British did not have the resources to take on Germany all by themselves. No, stop it. Not even close. In fact, without the US and Britain, the Russians would have surrendered after LOSING Stalingrad. Try to understand where the war was at that battle. It was more important than saving Moscow. Russian morale would have been completely whiped out had that happened. That would have let Hitler move most of his forces to the West, and Britain would have been fucked. So, what kept it from happening? Russian lives and supplies getting poured in to the front at all costs. That and Stalin's ego. Oh where did these supplies come from? Oh you thought I was going to say the US? Well sort of. US Equipment was enough to slow down the Germans. Sure mostly cannon fodder for equipment, but Stalin was quite happy to see it as it gave him the time he needed to get Soviet factories producing what they needed.
It is true that NONE of the Allies could have taken down Nazi Germany all by themselves. The USSR was on the verge of collapse (more so than SOME of you seem to think). England was being heavily bombarded daily, if not by German bombers early on, by V1's and V2's later. England also had NO serious plan to invade France. Indeed, it took the United States entering in to make it happen/get things moving.
What IS true is that the United States could have stayed an isolationist society back in the late 30's and not tried to help supply the British and the Soviets. We'd have a VERY different world now if that had happened.
Last edited by bigdroo (2007-04-16 19:12:27)
And nowadays you cant get a european outside of the UK to do fuck all in the war on terror.
For fucks sake man. The last three posts from you have been based on poor logic and even worse facts.theelviscerator wrote:
And nowadays you cant get a european outside of the UK to do fuck all in the war on terror.
Who is in control of the Afghanistan operation right now?
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman