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2007-04-16 08:39:30
Gillenator
Evils Bammed Sex Machine
+129|6634|Evilsville

herrr_smity wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

herrr_smity wrote:

the soviets won the war, and thats a fact
What about all the gear we shipped to the Soviets, and the fact that Nazi Germany was waging war on multiple fronts? See below:
a symbolic gesture to ensure that they were on our side, and the western front was nothing compared to the Russian (eastern) front, in 1944 there were 166 divisions on the Eastern front whilst on the western front there were 54
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=7288
And quite a load of those 54 divisions where quite crappy! Although there were some so called 'elite' troops there too of course. Panzer Lehr, 116th Panzer, the waffen ss divisions 1, 2, 9, 10, 12 and 17, some fallschirmjager units, 21st Panzer etc etc.

And it was the Allies that won the war, not just the USA.

Last edited by Gillenator (2007-04-16 08:41:12)

2007-04-16 08:41:18
Mushroomcar
I L0v3 C4k3
+18|6960|Sweden
Very interesting thread. There are many good and some poor statements here .
2007-04-16 11:15:26
theelviscerator
Member
+19|6528
90% responsible.

Russian weather 10%
2007-04-16 11:21:54
Hunter/Jumper
Member
+117|6594

herrr_smity wrote:

the soviets won the war, and thats a fact
couldn't even feed themselves
2007-04-16 11:25:55
OakLeaves
Banned
+70|6555|Newcastle UK
The English would have never lost:

Were British were are the best at war and are World War champions - Al Murray

On a serious note, i believe the war in Europe was beginning to end before the US entered it. I don't honestly think Hitler could have defeated the English army and take on the Russians as well.
2007-04-16 11:44:34
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6841|132 and Bush

Hunter/Jumper wrote:

herrr_smity wrote:

the soviets won the war, and thats a fact
couldn't even feed themselves
Siege of Leningrad anyone?
However, people did not stop at eating cats and dogs, for those who were extremely desperate to survive resulted to cannibalism (Suny 318).
Two fronts defeated the Germans. America played a large part of that but it involved the work of many nations. Americans did bear the responsibility of most the Pacific theater however.

OakLeaves wrote:

On a serious note, i believe the war in Europe was beginning to end before the US entered it.
OakLeaves you are begging for someone to through history at you . The US entered the war in December 1941.

The following countries were under Axis control by the summer of 1941
  • AUSTRIA   
  • THE NETHERLANDS       
  • ALBANIA       
  • MOROCCO
  • CZECHOSLOVAKIA    
  • FRANCE    
  • GREECE    
  • ALGERIA
  • POLAND    
  • HUNGARY    
  • LITHUANIA    
  • TUNISIA
  • DENMARK    
  • ROMANIA    
  • LATVIA    
  • LIBYA
  • NORWAY    
  • BULGARIA    
  • ESTONIA     
  • BELGIUM    
  • YUGOSLAVIA    
  • FINLAND
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-04-16 12:55:29
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7006|UK
His point is that the Germans were already on the retreat from the Russians.

One thing about your pacific comment, it seems a lot of Americans forget the ground war being fought by the Russians and the Common wealth in China against the Japanese.
2007-04-16 12:57:03
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6884
i could have sworn the russians only started shit against japan in the last few weeks before they surrended.  so they could scoop up good land in korea for the workers revolution.
2007-04-16 13:37:13
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7006|UK

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

i could have sworn the russians only started shit against japan in the last few weeks before they surrended.  so they could scoop up good land in korea for the workers revolution.
that may be true, i dont know much about the Russian campaign there, but the common wealth were fighting there for a very long time. left my book on it notts otherwise i would give you some details.
2007-04-16 13:43:12
PureFodder
Member
+225|6525

Kmarion wrote:

Hunter/Jumper wrote:

herrr_smity wrote:

the soviets won the war, and thats a fact
couldn't even feed themselves
Siege of Leningrad anyone?
However, people did not stop at eating cats and dogs, for those who were extremely desperate to survive resulted to cannibalism (Suny 318).
Two fronts defeated the Germans. America played a large part of that but it involved the work of many nations. Americans did bear the responsibility of most the Pacific theater however.

OakLeaves wrote:

On a serious note, i believe the war in Europe was beginning to end before the US entered it.
OakLeaves you are begging for someone to through history at you . The US entered the war in December 1941.

The following countries were under Axis control by the summer of 1941
  • AUSTRIA   
  • THE NETHERLANDS       
  • ALBANIA       
  • MOROCCO
  • CZECHOSLOVAKIA    
  • FRANCE    
  • GREECE    
  • ALGERIA
  • POLAND    
  • HUNGARY    
  • LITHUANIA    
  • TUNISIA
  • DENMARK    
  • ROMANIA    
  • LATVIA    
  • LIBYA
  • NORWAY    
  • BULGARIA    
  • ESTONIA     
  • BELGIUM    
  • YUGOSLAVIA    
  • FINLAND
Erm, 4 of those countries aren't even in Europe. Most of the rest had been in Axis hands for ages.
2007-04-16 13:44:26
CruZ4dR
Cereal Killer
+145|6896|The View From The Afternoon

CyrusTheVirus wrote:

What ingratitude. Next time you're whining out in desperation for our help you can go fuck yourselves.
No instead, why don't YOU go fuck yourself?

You probably don't know shit about WW2.
The nazis could easily have been taken without the US, but nono, the americans they came, and they blew up some japanese houses and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people. You patriot american dickheads make me sick.
2007-04-16 13:48:05
ELITE-UK
Scratching my back
+170|6714|SHEFFIELD, ENGLAND

CruZ4dR wrote:

CyrusTheVirus wrote:

What ingratitude. Next time you're whining out in desperation for our help you can go fuck yourselves.
No instead, why don't YOU go fuck yourself?

You probably don't know shit about WW2.
The nazis could easily have been taken without the US, but nono, the americans they came, and they blew up some japanese houses and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people. You patriot american dickheads make me sick.
Amen to that, the British have done more than most people think TBH in WW2.

I think that if Britain wasnt still fighting ALONE! in ww2 before america came along then germany would have or maybe crippled russia.
2007-04-16 13:57:24
venom6
Since day One.
+247|6798|Hungary
If Hitler dont attacks the Sovjet Union they would attack the Germans in time (1 or 2 years)

- The communism sais that you need to invade the whole world and make communism everywhere.
- After the attack on the Sovjet Union they saw that they were already set up for attacking the Germans. Hitler was just 1 or 2 steps ahead on Stalin.
- If they dont attack USA and Uk and Russia would ahve attacking him anyway because they fear from them.
2007-04-16 13:58:57
Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|6886

CruZ4dR wrote:

CyrusTheVirus wrote:

What ingratitude. Next time you're whining out in desperation for our help you can go fuck yourselves.
No instead, why don't YOU go fuck yourself?

You probably don't know shit about WW2.
The nazis could easily have been taken without the US, but nono, the americans they came, and they blew up some japanese houses and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people. You patriot american dickheads make me sick.
Can't believe my grampa almost had to die for idiots like you. Ingratitude is a perfect word for it.
2007-04-16 14:04:26
The_Guardsman
Tally Ho!!
+81|6985|I'm not sure.... Buts its dark
I love listening to post like this. I belive alot of americans get thier history classes from hollywood films such as U571.

Yes the americans did help us during the secound world war and l'm very gratful for it, BUT we stopped Hitlers operation sealion (invasion of Blighty) in 1940 before the americans joined in and who came to your chaps rescue during the battle of the buldge.. I belive it was Monty and the 8th Army.
I hate the "if it were'nt for us you chaps would be goose stepping up and down the road" bollocks that some Americans belive in and l hate Hollywood trying to re write history through films.
2007-04-16 14:06:41
acEofspadEs6313
Shiny! Let's be bad guys.
+102|6932|NAS Jacksonville, Florida

CruZ4dR wrote:

CyrusTheVirus wrote:

What ingratitude. Next time you're whining out in desperation for our help you can go fuck yourselves.
No instead, why don't YOU go fuck yourself?

You probably don't know shit about WW2.
The nazis could easily have been taken without the US, but nono, the americans they came, and they blew up some japanese houses and killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people. You patriot american dickheads make me sick.
Ffs dude, Hitler declared war on the US for no reason at all after Pearl Harbor. We didn't waltz on in and say 'Hey! We're gonna join the war now!'

And if you're gonna bitch about the hundreds of thousands of innocent people the US killed in the Pacific, don't forget to mention what the Japanese did to the Koreans, Chinese, etc, as well as what Hilter did to the "sub-humans" in Europe.
2007-04-16 14:07:18
daddyofdeath
A REAL Combat Engineer in the house
+187|6493|UK Bradford W,Yorks. Age 27
Its a fact tha without the American help we would have been in a world of shit. The weapons lease program helped us no end when all our armour was left on the beaches of Dunkirk, so lets not American bash too much. However, I agree also that we stood alone for a long time taking on the might of the German Army at its height of power, with little or no backing of any European countries help as they thought we were done for. America wantred to stay neutral to keep ''her boys'' out of the war. She only entered when she was bombed by Japan at Pearl Harbour, and they declared war on japan straight away.  I believe it was GERMANY that declared war on America first.

Last edited by daddyofdeath (2007-04-16 14:08:20)

2007-04-16 14:08:39
acEofspadEs6313
Shiny! Let's be bad guys.
+102|6932|NAS Jacksonville, Florida

The_Guardsman wrote:

I love listening to post like this. I belive alot of americans get thier history classes from hollywood films such as U571.

Yes the americans did help us during the secound world war and l'm very gratful for it, BUT we stopped Hitlers operation sealion (invasion of Blighty) in 1940 before the americans joined in and who came to your chaps rescue during the battle of the buldge.. I belive it was Monty and the 8th Army.
I hate the "if it were'nt for us you chaps would be goose stepping up and down the road" bollocks that some Americans belive in and l hate Hollywood trying to re write history through films.
Monty's 8th and Patton's 3rd came from the North and South, respectively. It wasn't just Monty.
2007-04-16 14:10:39
hollabackitsobi
Member
+1|6487

adam1503 wrote:

Okay, so this is a pretty big question.  A lot of Americans seem to believe that their country was solely responsible for saving Europe from Nazi occupation during WWII.  They claim to have single-handedly won the war and to have saved everyone.

On the other hand, many Europeans (infact, most of the rest of the world) believe that America didn't play as crucial a role as they lay claim to.  America joined the war more than half-way through, and only after they were bombed at Pearl Harbour.  They also were responsible for introducing the fission bomb to the world, and for using two on Japan.

Is it just me, or are many Americans full of crap?  How can they claim to have won the war and to have saved Europe from the Nazis?  Who liberated much of mainland Europe from Nazi occupation? Who was able to fend off the Nazi war machine from invasion during the Blitz years?

We should clear this up once and for all: the US cannot claim to have saved Europe from the Nazis.  The US did not win the war alone.

(EDIT: I wanted to add a poll here, but there doesn't seem to be an option for it...)
rofl. I'm not even American and I know you're wrong. (Jamaican born, Nigerian heritage). If you studied history AT ALL you'd know most of the Europeans weapons and such were provided by America, pretty much ALL of their food came from America's breadbasket since bombed out country side doesn't produce wheat.

Pretty much all the important fighting was done by America cough*DDAY*, with significant European aid. They were just so ravaged from WWI that America did most of it.

Also, Monty or whoever the fuck would have no one to save if the Americans didn't decide to join the war on the European front and save your asses. Also, if the war hadn't ended so quickly, (it would have taken longer without AMerica contributing to the allied force) the German Luftwaffe had jets in development that would have lol'd at RAF Spitfires.

Last edited by hollabackitsobi (2007-04-16 14:12:56)

2007-04-16 14:13:30
acEofspadEs6313
Shiny! Let's be bad guys.
+102|6932|NAS Jacksonville, Florida

hollabackitsobi wrote:

adam1503 wrote:

Okay, so this is a pretty big question.  A lot of Americans seem to believe that their country was solely responsible for saving Europe from Nazi occupation during WWII.  They claim to have single-handedly won the war and to have saved everyone.

On the other hand, many Europeans (infact, most of the rest of the world) believe that America didn't play as crucial a role as they lay claim to.  America joined the war more than half-way through, and only after they were bombed at Pearl Harbour.  They also were responsible for introducing the fission bomb to the world, and for using two on Japan.

Is it just me, or are many Americans full of crap?  How can they claim to have won the war and to have saved Europe from the Nazis?  Who liberated much of mainland Europe from Nazi occupation? Who was able to fend off the Nazi war machine from invasion during the Blitz years?

We should clear this up once and for all: the US cannot claim to have saved Europe from the Nazis.  The US did not win the war alone.

(EDIT: I wanted to add a poll here, but there doesn't seem to be an option for it...)
rofl. I'm not even American and I know you're wrong. (Jamaican born, Nigerian heritage). If you studied history AT ALL you'd know most of the Europeans weapons and such were provided by America, pretty much ALL of their food came from America's breadbasket since bombed out country side doesn't produce wheat.

Pretty much all the important fighting was done by America cough*DDAY*, with significant European aid. They were just so ravaged from WWI that America did most of it.
Where to begin...

1) It wasn't just the US who supplied Europe with foodstuffs. It was the US AND South American countries.
2) Not all the important fighting was done by the US. Just to rattle off a few:
Dunkirk --- UK and France
Stalingrad --- Russians
Leningrad --- Russians
El Alamein --- UK
2007-04-16 14:15:25
Ridir
Semper Fi!
+48|7004
The United States had the economic will and manpower to produce enough machines, food, and weaponry to turn the tide on the western front.  On the Eastern front only the Russians had the power to push the Nazis back.  If it wasn't for these two superpowers then Europe would have been conquered.  Germany had the man power and technological edge but was overwhelmed by insane amount of man power thrown against it in two polar opposite fronts, not to mention the loses in North Africa where the Americans were shipping and supplying the British with material goods to support their war effort.
2007-04-16 14:16:37
acEofspadEs6313
Shiny! Let's be bad guys.
+102|6932|NAS Jacksonville, Florida

hollabackitsobi wrote:

Also, Monty or whoever the fuck would have no one to save if the Americans didn't decide to join the war on the European front and save your asses. Also, if the war hadn't ended so quickly, (it would have taken longer without AMerica contributing to the allied force) the German Luftwaffe had jets in development that would have lol'd at RAF Spitfires.
FOR THE LAST FUCKING TIME, GERMANY DECLARED WAR ON THE US, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

As for the Luftwaffe, the British smashed it down to a point were it couldn't recover.

Also, the British weren't that far behind in designing jet-powered aircraft, not to mention the later Spitfire classes were badass planes.
2007-04-16 14:18:15
hollabackitsobi
Member
+1|6487

OakLeaves wrote:

The English would have never lost:

Were British were are the best at war and are World War champions - Al Murray

On a serious note, i believe the war in Europe was beginning to end before the US entered it. I don't honestly think Hitler could have defeated the English army and take on the Russians as well.
Man you guys really got me into this! lol ya the Battle of Britain was easy shit for you guys, with half of the little island bombed out and fucked, plus Germany was no slacker in the Navy department, ever heard of the BIsmarck vs the HMS Hood? They had the best infantry army for sure, since they were previously Prussia and Prussia was military crazy, like more modern Spartans.

A ground war in Britain would have been lol for the Germans, you should thank God you have the English channel.
2007-04-16 14:21:02
acEofspadEs6313
Shiny! Let's be bad guys.
+102|6932|NAS Jacksonville, Florida

hollabackitsobi wrote:

OakLeaves wrote:

The English would have never lost:

Were British were are the best at war and are World War champions - Al Murray

On a serious note, i believe the war in Europe was beginning to end before the US entered it. I don't honestly think Hitler could have defeated the English army and take on the Russians as well.
Man you guys really got me into this! lol ya the Battle of Britain was easy shit for you guys, with half of the little island bombed out and fucked, plus Germany was no slacker in the Navy department, ever heard of the BIsmarck vs the HMS Hood? They had the best infantry army for sure, since they were previously Prussia and Prussia was military crazy, like more modern Spartans.

A ground war in Britain would have been lol for the Germans, you should thank God you have the English channel.
Did you ever hear that the Bismark was a better ship than the Hood, not to mention that the Bismark got LUCKY and hit the Hood's magazine compartment. Also, the Kriegsmarine has shit ships compared to the Royal Navy due to the restrictions of the KM's size after WWI.

EDIT: Oh, and how was the Bismark sunk? Oh yeah, it was hit by a torpedo from a BRITISH Fairy Swordfish which made the ship unsteerable, and then it ran into the George V and other RN ships.

Last edited by acEofspadEs6313 (2007-04-16 14:22:37)

2007-04-16 14:24:34
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6463|Escea

I believe that no country can take sole responsibility for the allied victory as so many played vital roles. The British were more than capable of handling the Germans, but they needed equipment after a lot of it was left at Dunkirk. The supplies were shipped from the US so the US played a large role in the logistical aspect. It is undeniable that the US helped win the war, but we can't forget that the Canadians, British, Russians and Australians all helped and played crucial roles that led to the overall defeat of the Nazis and the Japanese.

 

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