Poll

Worst Rifle In Service

G36 series4%4% - 5
Sa8031%31% - 33
Steyr AUG12%12% - 13
M-16 (family)28%28% - 30
Famas7%7% - 8
Ak-1012%2% - 3
Other11%11% - 12
Total: 104
Cougar
Banned
+1,962|6753|Dallas
What do you think the worst service rifle is?  State reasons for you decision, also any experiences you may have had with the weapon you choose as the worst.

Personally, I would have to say the SA80.  How this weapon ever made it through British field testing is beyond me.  First off bullpup designs, while they look good on paper, usually suck dick in real life.  For those of you that do not know what the bullpup design is (and no it isn't the Counter Strike gun, thats the Steyr AUG....dumbass) it means that the clip and firing mechanism is in the back of the gun allowing for a more compact weapon while maintaining barrel length and accuracy.  The problem is, they make the gun incredibly unbalanced and a host of other problems arise from the design as well, such as close point muzzle flashing and in some guns (get this) shells ejecting into your face.  Yes, shells ejecting into your face, shitty huh. The FAMAS, P90, F2000 and M90 are also bullpup designs.

But anyways, back to the SA80.  It's a bullpup, and personally I think they suck.  Not only this but the materials that the SA80 are made out of are really cheap and not very good quality.  I have read reports of soldiers literally shattering their weapons while in the field.  The plastic is also in the worst places possible on the weapon, like on the walls of the receiver so that if you were to chassis you could actually stop the fucking bolt.  Some soldiers were reportedly putting duct tape around the weapon to keep the plastic from breaking, thats how shittacular the gun is.  Another problem, like I mentioned before, is the weight imbalance.  This means you need to put a counter weight in the front of the weapon to balance it out and maintain maximum accuracy, thus you have pretty much voided the whole purpose of the bullpup design by making the gun 25% heavier to balance the piece of crap out.  Another problem is that the clip springs are to tight for the amount of rounds that can fit into a clip, meaning if you have a 30 round magazine you can only load in 25 rounds or the gun will jam. 

The list of problems really just goes on and on.  The gun was so bad that it had to go through a complete redesign because NATO gave it a vote of no-confidencein 1997 effectivly dropping the weapon from NATO's approved weapons list.  Heckler and Koch came in and saved the weapon and redesigned it into it's current state to which it still remains.


Sources:Wiki, World Guns, Heckler and Koch, World Firearms 1950-present
4thHazard
Member
+5|6237|Australia [Sydney NSW]
AUS-STYER, Its the best rifle that has been built its compact design and Durability stands out when us (Me and Other on BF2s that are Aussie) Watch out boys go off to war and Own it up with the AUG, Also the AUG does not Eject friggin Shells into your Face you Twit, Come to Australia and Fire one You'll get told on the spot.

Also M-16 Worst Rifle/BB-Gun that has ever been built, It got many people Killed in Vietnam since it jams so much

Last edited by 4thHazard (2007-04-15 01:13:57)

N.A.T.O
The People’s Champion
+59|6429|A drop house

4thHazard wrote:

AUS-STYER, Its the best rifle that has been built its compact design and Durability stands out when us (Me and Other on BF2s that are Aussie) Watch out boys go off to war and Own it up with the AUG, Also the AUG does not Eject friggin Shells into your Face you Twit, Come to Australia and Fire one You'll get told on the spot.

Also M-16 Worst Rifle/BB-Gun that has ever been built, It got many people Killed in Vietnam since it jams so much
Well the M16 jamming problems of the late 60s ealy 70s have long been taken care of, and for the past 35 years has been one of the best weapon systems ever made. The worst up there I would say is the Sa80. Simple because i remember reading some were that it can be somewhat fragile. O and btw the AUG is good but it is far from being the best rifle that has been built.
4thHazard
Member
+5|6237|Australia [Sydney NSW]

N.A.T.O wrote:

4thHazard wrote:

AUS-STYER, Its the best rifle that has been built its compact design and Durability stands out when us (Me and Other on BF2s that are Aussie) Watch out boys go off to war and Own it up with the AUG, Also the AUG does not Eject friggin Shells into your Face you Twit, Come to Australia and Fire one You'll get told on the spot.

Also M-16 Worst Rifle/BB-Gun that has ever been built, It got many people Killed in Vietnam since it jams so much
Well the M16 jamming problems of the late 60s ealy 70s have long been taken care of, and for the past 35 years has been one of the best weapon systems ever made. The worst up there I would say is the Sa80. Simple because i remember reading some were that it can be somewhat fragile. O and btw the AUG is good but it is far from being the best rifle that has been built.
I see what your saying and I do know the Jamming has been Fixed for years but what the Guy above me posted about the AUG firing shells into your face is an absolute fool its a lie, and by NATO thanks for not bagging the AUG it isn't the best but it does the job when your in the field + 1 to you my Friend.
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|6681
G36 series > M-16 (family) > Ak-101 > Steyr AUG > Famas > SA80   
The G36 is a bit bulky imo, but it is a decent 5.56mm weapon that got rid of most of the problems that the M16 has. The M16 is nice light weight, versatile weapon with pretty decent accuracy and durability. The AK-101 is a rugged piece of hardware, pretty average though. The Steyr AUG is probably the best bullpup rifle out there today, but the P90 is better imo, but the P90 is an SMG not an AR. The Famas has a good design, but it is very heavy. The SA80 is just junky as everyone else has pointed out.
GorillaTicTacs
Member
+231|6362|Kyiv, Ukraine
I always thought the M-16 felt like a toy, especially after handling the .22 target rifles on rifle team in high school.  I was sooo happy when I got my 249 qualification and could walk around feeling like I was carrying a real man's weapon...even though the rear sight post had a bad habit of disintegrating on me (the screws holding it on to be exact).  I was happy that my unit was passed over for the M-4 (mostly), which changed on our first Iraq rotation...long after I was officially squad automatic rifleman (249 in one-man capacity).  The M-16 may have been a children's toy, which made the M-4 seem like a squirt gun.  I'm sure the bullets make you just as dead in the end, but nothing beats good German/Belgian engineering for sheer intimidation factor.

That's why I was amazed when I was in Israel and say their IDF carrying around M-16's...but the explanation I got was simple: unit price.  Israel could export their awesome AR's to American gun collectors at $1200 to $3000 a pop, then buy 16's at $400 to 600 each and import them right back.
LostFate
Same shit, Different Arsehole
+95|6474|England
The SA80 is very accurate gun and a very reliable weapon if you maintain it properly.

If your a bitch to your weapon it will be a bitch to you when you need it most.
XanKrieger
iLurk
+60|6647|South West England
SA80 for pretty much all the same reasons you put Cougar, naff piece of shite
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6663|Canberra, AUS

N.A.T.O wrote:

4thHazard wrote:

AUS-STYER, Its the best rifle that has been built its compact design and Durability stands out when us (Me and Other on BF2s that are Aussie) Watch out boys go off to war and Own it up with the AUG, Also the AUG does not Eject friggin Shells into your Face you Twit, Come to Australia and Fire one You'll get told on the spot.

Also M-16 Worst Rifle/BB-Gun that has ever been built, It got many people Killed in Vietnam since it jams so much
Well the M16 jamming problems of the late 60s ealy 70s have long been taken care of, and for the past 35 years has been one of the best weapon systems ever made. The worst up there I would say is the Sa80. Simple because i remember reading some were that it can be somewhat fragile. O and btw the AUG is good but it is far from being the best rifle that has been built.
Fancy seeing you here Kingsy.

Anyhoo...

I thought the discussion was about the WORST rifle, not the best? From what I've read, I've gotta choose the SA80.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
-101-InvaderZim
Member
+42|6832|Waikato, Aotearoa
Styer AUG is THE worst weapon to use.
Im a left handed shooter, and when I had to reload, I had the unpleasant choice of either swapping the rifle
to my right hand to pull the cocking handle OR use my left hand to pull the cocking handle from over the barrel.
VERY uncomfortable.
At least the armourer closed the left ejection port i guess so I wouldnt get hit with spent casings *sigh*
agent146
Member
+127|6375|Jesus Land aka Canada

-101-InvaderZim wrote:

Styer AUG is THE worst weapon to use.
Im a left handed shooter, and when I had to reload, I had the unpleasant choice of either swapping the rifle
to my right hand to pull the cocking handle OR use my left hand to pull the cocking handle from over the barrel.
VERY uncomfortable.
At least the armourer closed the left ejection port i guess so I wouldnt get hit with spent casings *sigh*
same i am also left handed. i believe the m16/4 series arn't to good for left hander either as the hot shells ejects into your forearm if your a left hander.
BVC
Member
+325|6684

4thHazard wrote:

AUS-STYER, Its the best rifle that has been built its compact design and Durability stands out when us (Me and Other on BF2s that are Aussie) Watch out boys go off to war and Own it up with the AUG, Also the AUG does not Eject friggin Shells into your Face you Twit, Come to Australia and Fire one You'll get told on the spot.

Also M-16 Worst Rifle/BB-Gun that has ever been built, It got many people Killed in Vietnam since it jams so much
An army guy on my paintball team said they have a tendency to fire on their own if you put a few mags through in quick succession, didn't seem to think too highly of them.
Longbow
Member
+163|6635|Odessa, Ukraine
1.G36 series
2.Ak-101/M-16 (family)
3.Sa80/Steyr AUG

t3h worst is Famas

AUG , by the way , is one of the most underrated weapons in the world ..
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6610|London, England
Does anyone else find it extremely ironic that Australia are using an Austrian weapon.

I dunno, i just get flashbacks of that Simpson episode where they show the Australian parliament building with "ali" added on top of the Austria with graffiti like it was a stolen Austrian building

Cmon you must know what i'm talking about
CannonFodder11b
Purple Heart Recipient
+73|6678|Fort Lewis WA

4thHazard wrote:

N.A.T.O wrote:

4thHazard wrote:

AUS-STYER, Its the best rifle that has been built its compact design and Durability stands out when us (Me and Other on BF2s that are Aussie) Watch out boys go off to war and Own it up with the AUG, Also the AUG does not Eject friggin Shells into your Face you Twit, Come to Australia and Fire one You'll get told on the spot.

Also M-16 Worst Rifle/BB-Gun that has ever been built, It got many people Killed in Vietnam since it jams so much
Well the M16 jamming problems of the late 60s ealy 70s have long been taken care of, and for the past 35 years has been one of the best weapon systems ever made. The worst up there I would say is the Sa80. Simple because i remember reading some were that it can be somewhat fragile. O and btw the AUG is good but it is far from being the best rifle that has been built.
I see what your saying and I do know the Jamming has been Fixed for years but what the Guy above me posted about the AUG firing shells into your face is an absolute fool its a lie, and by NATO thanks for not bagging the AUG it isn't the best but it does the job when your in the field + 1 to you my Friend.
Don't get your panties in a twist.  He was reffering to the bullpup design in general.  Cool off and take a breather then come back and play.

SA80.  Never shot one but I have seen a few we have removed from houses out here.  Look cheaply made.
wah1188
You orrible caaaaaaan't
+321|6449|UK
Damm it sucks bad enough when your gun jams in paintball can't imagine how it feels in a real firefight.
Hunter/Jumper
Member
+117|6343
I know the Stoner M16 was designed around the US Air Force's development of Rapid ignition powder ( RIP ) Very clean burning, It was later substituted with extruded ball powder which mach for fowling the design wouldn't tolerate. Seems like a scandal to me...maybe Remington couldn't buy the rights to the RIP patent or couldn't produce RIP?
anyone know? Other wise the AR15 M16 prototypes tested in the field using RIP were devastating and reliable.
PureFodder
Member
+225|6274
I seem to remember one of the SA80s had the neat feature of being unusable if you were left handed as the spent cartridges were ejected into your face.
agent146
Member
+127|6375|Jesus Land aka Canada

rdx-fx wrote:

y'know, it's kind of funny..

The Aussies are bitching about the Steyr AUG..
The Brits are bitching about the SA80..
The Americans are bitching about the M249 and M16..

common thread I've noticed in such discussions: every service seems to have a main issue rifle thats 1) plastic 2) cheap 3) designed to appeal to procurement officers rather than the infantryman.


No problems letting me burn through, say, $5000 worth of ammunition a year when not deployed is not an issue- but spending an extra $250 to buy a decent rifle is a no-go.  WTFO?!?!
well i always see rifles used by any army as to be mass produced and now, made more cheaply to cut cost... GIVE ME A CHINESE AK 47 lol!
Milk.org
Bringing Sexy Back
+270|6765|UK

PureFodder wrote:

I seem to remember one of the SA80s had the neat feature of being unusable if you were left handed as the spent cartridges were ejected into your face.
Yeh that's the whole SA80 (Small Arms for the 1980s) family that can't be fired from the left hand unless you can catch the casings in your mouth and spit them out real quick . Felt a bit sorry for 2 of the guys in basic who were left handed. I had no issues with this weapon (we use the A2 now but in basic you still use the A1's) it's been through some shit with me and I find it to be super-fucking accurate (I love my SUSAT) although it should not have taken this long to get to where it is, and the cluster-fucks responsible should have a word with themselves. My rifle treats me as well as I treat her and she ain't fucking let me down yet. Someone said that you could only load 25 into a mag but that's been fixed and you can now load a full 30. Oh well only 8 more years until we get a new rifle .
daddyofdeath
A REAL Combat Engineer in the house
+187|6242|UK Bradford W,Yorks. Age 27
I serve in the Brit Army Royal Engineers and the SA-80 is not a bullpup outright. Its a redesign of the SA-80, and its ideal for tank commanders and soldiers in confined spaces, Recce patrols, Mine Clearance vehicles etc etc. Its a shortened version is all. The SA-80  (L85 A1 Small Arms of the 80's) was not a very good weapon (although I could strike a target at a distance of 600 metres with mine and still get a grouping of 7 cms with my service rifle). It was very prone to stoppages and misfires. Hot conditions and the plastic would melt. Dust would get in the breech and every nook and cranny. However, Heckler and Koch came along and redesigned the working parts and gas plugs to a very good standard with the new L85 A2. Also incorporating a 'deflector system' in which a round is fired off, the empty case is ejected and deflected away from the rifle and operator. Thus reducing the stoppage problem (where an empty case is not ejected properly) to virtually zero. The L85 A2 now gets my vote for best weapon. I used the M-16, Mp5 a1, M4 and various other weapons, and none beat the L85 A2 in my own bias opinion.
hate&discontent
USMC 0311 SEMPER FI
+69|6377|USA, MICHIGAN
the worst weapon ever issued is the french sho-sho.  out of the list on the poll, the worst one there has to be the m-16a1.  that thing was a piece of garbage
joker3327
=IBF2=
+305|6587|Cheshire. UK
Who in this thread has actually fired the SA80 in a combat situation.....I have and I have no complaints...but it seems funny that everyone knocks it but wont say why...eg 27 people voted it the worst weapon so far...but only 23 comments..

If you are voting on hearsay or reports dont......until you have used it...!

Rant over !
delta4bravo*nl*
Dutch Delight
+68|6741

-101-InvaderZim wrote:

Styer AUG is THE worst weapon to use.
Im a left handed shooter, and when I had to reload, I had the unpleasant choice of either swapping the rifle
to my right hand to pull the cocking handle OR use my left hand to pull the cocking handle from over the barrel.
VERY uncomfortable.
At least the armourer closed the left ejection port i guess so I wouldnt get hit with spent casings *sigh*
Eehhhhhh lefty 1 to lefty 2 on the AUG you want the LEFT ejection port to be OPEN not the right.. left casing go away from you RIGHT = in your face.
I like the aug but its a bit outdated on optics.
M16 no problems for a lefty, your rigt arm comes from below because you want to keep you elbow low... if  you put your elbow up you might get shot under the arm, where you do not have protection from body armour.
Now the guns:

G36
TAVOR (tested this puppy last month, this is really wow)
http://www.defense-update.com/directory/tavor.htm
M16
Famas
AUG
AK 101
Sa 80
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6212|Escea

Is the P90 classed as a bullpup? i thought the mag had to be in the back not on top, correct me if I'm wrong.
I would have to go with the SA80, I've never fired one, but they had them at an airshow once where you fired it at a screen and it registered it electronically, was surprisingly heavy for its size and like whats already been said it can't be fired by left handers. Although I'm ambidextrous

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