Poll

What If Iran Had Invaded Mexico?

The US should get involved and help its neighbor32%32% - 18
US should get involved, this could be a menace to US10%10% - 6
Getting involved could be considered insurgency9%9% - 5
Mexico is another country, it's their problem9%9% - 5
This analogy sucks big time38%38% - 21
Total: 55
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7050|Argentina
Before voting please read the following article written by Noam Chomsky:

Noam Chomsky article wrote:

Unsurprisingly, George W. Bush's announcement of a "surge" in Iraq came despite the firm opposition to any such move of Americans and the even stronger opposition of the (thoroughly irrelevant) Iraqis. It was accompanied by ominous official leaks and statements – from Washington and Baghdad – about how Iranian intervention in Iraq was aimed at disrupting our mission to gain victory, an aim which is (by definition) noble. What then followed was a solemn debate about whether serial numbers on advanced roadside bombs (IEDs) were really traceable to Iran; and, if so, to that country's Revolutionary Guards or to some even higher authority.

This "debate" is a typical illustration of a primary principle of sophisticated propaganda. In crude and brutal societies, the Party Line is publicly proclaimed and must be obeyed – or else. What you actually believe is your own business and of far less concern. In societies where the state has lost the capacity to control by force, the Party Line is simply presupposed; then, vigorous debate is encouraged within the limits imposed by unstated doctrinal orthodoxy. The cruder of the two systems leads, naturally enough, to disbelief; the sophisticated variant gives an impression of openness and freedom, and so far more effectively serves to instill the Party Line. It becomes beyond question, beyond thought itself, like the air we breathe.

The debate over Iranian interference in Iraq proceeds without ridicule on the assumption that the United States owns the world. We did not, for example, engage in a similar debate in the 1980s about whether the U.S. was interfering in Soviet-occupied Afghanistan, and I doubt that Pravda, probably recognizing the absurdity of the situation, sank to outrage about that fact (which American officials and our media, in any case, made no effort to conceal). Perhaps the official Nazi press also featured solemn debates about whether the Allies were interfering in sovereign Vichy France, though if so, sane people would then have collapsed in ridicule.

In this case, however, even ridicule – notably absent – would not suffice, because the charges against Iran are part of a drumbeat of pronouncements meant to mobilize support for escalation in Iraq and for an attack on Iran, the "source of the problem." The world is aghast at the possibility. Even in neighboring Sunni states, no friends of Iran, majorities, when asked, favor a nuclear-armed Iran over any military action against that country. From what limited information we have, it appears that significant parts of the U.S. military and intelligence communities are opposed to such an attack, along with almost the entire world, even more so than when the Bush administration and Tony Blair's Britain invaded Iraq, defying enormous popular opposition worldwide.
Now imagine Iran had invaded Mexico because they had intelligence reports suggesting there were BMDs aka Burritos of Massive Destruction.  What do you think?
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6822|Global Command
It might have the bonus added effect of making them people STAY HOME.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7050|Argentina

ATG wrote:

It might have the bonus added effect of making them people STAY HOME.
So, Iran would be making the US a great favor.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6822|Global Command
I see what you are saying.

You are trying to get us to sympathize with the insurgents in Iraq.

Why would you do that though?
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7050|Argentina

ATG wrote:

I see what you are saying.

You are trying to get us to sympathize with the insurgents in Iraq.

Why would you do that though?
I'm not doing that.  I'm just imagining the similar situation happening in Mexico.  How would the US proceed in your honest opinion?
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6835|Texas - Bigger than France
ATG has a good question that you did not answer.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7050|Argentina

Pug wrote:

ATG has a good question that you did not answer.
I did answer it, you don't believe me and that's another story my friend.
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6835|Texas - Bigger than France
Yeah, no motive at all...right...
Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|6955|USA
Good anology. Makes you think.
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6875|SE London

Obviously the US should intervene (under a UN mandate and probably with international support) to help Mexico through full out open warfare. International aggression like that is very naughty. Just like when a certain badly behaved dictator invaded Kuwait.

ATG wrote:

It might have the bonus added effect of making them people STAY HOME.
Don't you like having people-for-hire who can help out in any situation?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/be/Mexican_Day_Laborers_%28South_Park%29.png



Not that Iran could realistically invade Mexico. They have no means for long range force projection.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2007-04-13 06:30:16)

sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7050|Argentina

Pug wrote:

Yeah, no motive at all...right...
What motivations could I have?  I don't like Iran either, but I'm asking a question here and suddenly I'm getting the questions.  So, what should the US do in this case?  Easy question.
BVC
Member
+325|6989
I believe sergeriver isn't trying to make anyone sympathise with Iran's motivation for backing the insurgents, but to understand some of their motives.

Last edited by Pubic (2007-04-13 06:36:28)

sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7050|Argentina

Pubic wrote:

I believe sergeriver isn't trying to make anyone sympathise with Iran's motivation for backing the insurgents, but to understand some of their motives.
It gets boring when most people think you are trying to do something you are not, and judge you instead of answering an easy question.  Btw, thanks for getting the point.

Last edited by sergeriver (2007-04-13 06:49:38)

comet241
Member
+164|7058|Normal, IL
I chose the last choice because there is no context there for an analogy. There is no history of conflict between iran and mexico, there were a slew of other reasons than wmds (some made public, some not) that the US invaded Iraq, mexico is a democracy and is not currently run by a dictator who gasses his own people... must i go on?

Of course our initial reaction to the analogy would be: "WTF? Those guys are invading mexico for no reason. That doesn't make any sense. Let's help them out"

Now if everything in the first paragraph was true plus some, the second paragraph wouldn't occur, or we would definately take a pause before saying anything similar.

Hence, the analogy fails. Sorry.

Last edited by comet241 (2007-04-13 06:56:58)

sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7050|Argentina

comet241 wrote:

I chose the last choice because there is no context there for an analogy. There is no history of conflict between iran and mexico, there were a slew of other reasons than wmds (some made public, some not) that the US invaded Iraq, mexico is a democracy and is not currently run by a dictator who gasses his own people... must i go on?

Of course our initial reaction to the analogy would be: "WTF? Those guys are invading mexico for no reason. That doesn't make any sense. Let's help them out"

Now if everything in the first paragraph was true plus some, the second paragraph wouldn't occur, or we would definately take a pause before saying anything similar.

Hence, the analogy fails. Sorry.
Of course there's no context for that.  That's why I asked you to read the whole article before answering, and then I offered you the following sci-fi scenario:

Now imagine Iran had invaded Mexico because they had intelligence reports suggesting there were BMDs aka Burritos of Massive Destruction.

Last edited by sergeriver (2007-04-13 06:59:05)

CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6848
LOL@Comet - it's a hypothetical analogy! Can't you comprehend that?

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-04-13 07:06:19)

comet241
Member
+164|7058|Normal, IL
I did read the article for voting like you asked.

I still thought there was no context for a comparison.

That was one of the options (more or less).

That's what I voted for.

You can keep asking the question, I know what answer you want me to say. That answer has nothing to do with the current situation in Iraq/Iran right now.

Hence, why I voted the way I did.

Give me an analogy a little more close to the current situation and then we will have a debate on our hands.
comet241
Member
+164|7058|Normal, IL

CameronPoe wrote:

LOL@Comet - it's a hypothetical analogy! Can't you comprehend that?
A hypothetical analogy that holds no context for comparison. That was one of the options. Can you comprehend that?
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6822|Global Command
Burritos of mass destruction, lol.

Of course we would help out. Frankly, it's a no brainer that Iran would interfer, I just don't think it's very smart of them.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7050|Argentina

comet241 wrote:

I did read the article for voting like you asked.

I still thought there was no context for a comparison.

That was one of the options (more or less).

That's what I voted for.

You can keep asking the question, I know what answer you want me to say. That answer has nothing to do with the current situation in Iraq/Iran right now.

Hence, why I voted the way I did.

Give me an analogy a little more close to the current situation and then we will have a debate on our hands.
I'm not questioning your answer, that's why that option is there.  You are free to vote for whatever option you want.
Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|6955|USA
Yes, if mexico was invaded, the US would get involved and some may call it an insurgency. The problem is, The US ALWAYs stands for good therefore our intervention in anything will be considered right. (Well, use to before the Iraq invasion) Where as we demonize the Iran insurgency because we don't deem thier motives "right". THey are just taking advantage of a broken countries problems. And the fact they may be helping kill our troops doesn't help thier cause. So its a global stage thing. US = BIg awesome democratic rightousness, Iran= bad guy.

THere you go. Hypothetical answer to a hypthetical question. Not so hard.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7050|Argentina

ATG wrote:

Burritos of mass destruction, lol.

Of course we would help out. Frankly, it's a no brainer that Iran would interfer, I just don't think it's very smart of them.
What if those Burritos were meant to be sold in Iran?  Think about the consequences, the epidemic diarrhea it could cause there.
comet241
Member
+164|7058|Normal, IL

sergeriver wrote:

ATG wrote:

Burritos of mass destruction, lol.

Of course we would help out. Frankly, it's a no brainer that Iran would interfer, I just don't think it's very smart of them.
What if those Burritos were meant to be sold in Iran?  Think about the consequences, the epidemic diarrhea it could cause there.
epidemic diarrhea..... Trying not to imagine that one.

I agree with ATG on this one. It's not too smart of Iran to get involved. I understand their reasons for doing so, but they're getting themselves in a mess (much like many would argue we have gotten ourselves into one) that, frankly, I dont think they can handle right now. Tehran vs. the Western world... Who would their allies be? Open allies? Thats the point I think ATG is making, and something I would have to agree with.
JG1567JG
Member
+110|6881|United States of America
I voted bad analogy.  It would be a good analogy if we sent our troops into mexico dressed like every other Mexican in Mexico and had them live amongst the Mexicans in their homes and do their fighting from behind the Mexican citizens.   I have a feeling that we would go into Mexico flying the United States of Americas flag and all our soldiers would be wearing uniforms so people could tell who was who.
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6738|The Land of Scott Walker

Bertster7 wrote:

Not that Iran could realistically invade Mexico. They have no means for long range force projection.
Had a thought while reading that.  Long range ballistic missiles or covert entry would be the only means they could hit the US.  That's why we need to fix our swiss cheese southern border.  I think that's the most likely spot that foreign nations would use to sneak people in.  Right now you can:

-drive a load of drugs across our border illegally
-get shot in the ass by the border patrol
-sue them to get more money for drug running
-border patrol goes to jail

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2025 Jeff Minard