I am not sure I agree with you - at all. You swear a lot, and I don't think your unintelligent. Your foul language (you use in threads/posts) doesn't really bother me, nor does the term nigga/nigger (sometimes I even see them in the opposite: as necessary, authentic, true-color, etc). But, neither slurs or foul terms are evidence against intelligence. And to consider "what sells" by being provocative created by a tiny fraction of people, a reason to denounce denigrate and dismiss a whole minority - is a bogus argument (IMO).Cougar wrote:
Now can you see what I mean by that? It's become popular for the louder voices in the black community to be racist or self degrading not to mention for the most part unintelligent (how many songs about spinnahs and slingin dope can you have?).
It is one thing to say hip-hop is short on values (it is just an appeal to the lowest common denominator – that sells), when considering the gansta / bitches / hoes / money aspect. It is another thing (an error) to apply that idea/criticism to the whole group.
I am not a black man of African descent. You're assuming things again. I am a white guy.Cougar wrote:
For "you people" to be so sensitive about a phrase like "you people", you sure don't have a problem using it against white folks and calling each other nigga and nigger.topal63 wrote:
It is almost the same slip of the tongue.. Imus made on Sharpton's Radio show... when he feigned an apology and slipped in a "you people." LOL
I've never listened to his show – and don't care what happens to him, I am sure he is well off financially. But somebody else did care; else the blowback would have been minimal and he would still be on the air.Cougar wrote:
Besides, I don't see why anyone even gives a shit about Don Imus, he's a crusty ass radio jocky who's been on the air longer than most people have been alive. His target audience is white males and frankly, I don't know why anyone but a white male would listen to him, frankly, I don't know why half the white males that listen to him, listen to him. He isn't that funny to begin with.I'm a racist. So what? I'd say 90% of the people in the U.S. are racist, its just that most are better than me at lying about it.topal63 wrote:
P.S. This is not a Cougar bash, by suggesting he is racist, he basically is... to some degree... I applaud his honesty for openly rationalizing it.
There is really only one specie of man. Race is somewhat of an archaic term – to me. I prefer one-race, the human-race, I prefer the concept of cline, which merely suggests local variations within a group – and/or diversity within a total-genome (of a specie).Cougar wrote:
I see how that could have came off as racist (I'll go further on that later), but what I meant by it was that in every race, …topal63 wrote:
I guess it is hard for a racist... to comprehend black people are not their own-people! LOLCougar wrote:
Personally, I think black people should receive no respect and no equality until they get their own people under control.
Your argument is not doing well – it's falling like a Led Zeppelin. To say you conceive of a type is to suggest your considering race to begin with; right up front. That is not how you do it. Why not conceive of no type / no one / or consider the depth of Buddhism, Tao, Zen, or a rich History you may no little about - instead.Cougar wrote:
… you have people that are at the forefront and are kind of like spokespeople or role models or like, I dunno, figure heads. Now for certain races there are people that I, personally, automatically visualise when I think of them. For instance when someone mentions the asian race I think of Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Dean Cain or Rob Schneider (yep, the last two are asian).
This seems to me to be an internal conception problem. Same as [above]; why not consider no-one; and if or when dealing with a real person of African descent, instead of thinking of: Paul Mooney, Al Sharpton or Snoop Dog, try this instead that you simply do not know the person standing in front of you – yet (& abandon preconceptions altogether). And if conceptualizing a group, like you did when you conceived of this piece you don't do it in that instance either.Cougar wrote:
However, when I think of black people I think DMX, Tupac, Snoop Dogg, Richard Pryor, Eddie Murphy and yes, Paul Mooney (fag).
Try turning automatic mode to: OFF.
I never think of a type, but sometimes when I consider people I admire some just happen to be African Americans - like: Mohamed Ali, Martin Luther King Jr., Miles Davis, Charlie Parker, some stereotype-breakers - astronauts & military leaders - http://www.raahistory.com/ , Colin Powel, Malcolm-X, Thurgood Marshall, John Coltrane, Spike Lee, Morgan Freeman, etc.
P.S. Hey it's just the internet, and I applaud your honesty and for taking the time to respond. I am not judging you, not at all, I am just pointing out reasoning that doesn't make sense to me.
Last edited by topal63 (2007-04-12 12:51:56)
Just STFU now. Everyone here is already sick of your stuck-up attitude.Sanjaya wrote:
Wow, with a number that high, I would have thought you'd actually be smart. Then again, the whole IQ system is inherently flawed, but you knew that. Right, genius?.robzored. wrote:
W/E i'm not going down to your level of petty flaming. (btw, I.Q. 182)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Good points and I see where you are coming from, except for this. It isn't falling, it never was, because it really isn't a point to be argued. This is because it is my perspective, not yours, not his, not theirs. Mine. You have your perspective, I have mine. I'm sure you go about sorting through faces in a crowd your own way, as do I.topal63 wrote:
Your argument is not doing well – it's falling like a Led Zeppelin. To say you conceive of a type is to suggest your considering race to begin with; right up front. That is not how you do it. Why not conceive of no type / no one / or consider the depth of Buddhism, Tao, Zen, or a rich History you may no little about - instead.Cougar wrote:
… you have people that are at the forefront and are kind of like spokespeople or role models or like, I dunno, figure heads. Now for certain races there are people that I, personally, automatically visualise when I think of them. For instance when someone mentions the asian race I think of Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Dean Cain or Rob Schneider (yep, the last two are asian).
.
But I value your opinion none the less.
Do they teach kids in school that black people were murdered without justice for hundreds of years in this country or that the true number of dead will never be known? Did you all forget or something?
Were you alive then? Was I? Was anyone you know?rawls wrote:
Do they teach kids in school that black people were murdered without justice for hundreds of years in this country or that the true number of dead will never be known? Did you all forget or something?
Perhaps I should be pissed off about the English for raping the Scots back in the day. Maybe I should hold a grudge and make them say sorry ever 5 years.
Do they teach kids in school that pretty much everyone was a slave?rawls wrote:
Do they teach kids in school that black people were murdered without justice for hundreds of years in this country or that the true number of dead will never be known? Did you all forget or something?
I just wanted to fit “Led Zeppelin” into a sentence as a metaphor, my bad.Cougar wrote:
Good points and I see where you are coming from, except for this. It isn't falling, it never was, because it really isn't a point to be argued. This is because it is my perspective, not yours, not his, not theirs. Mine. You have your perspective, I have mine. I'm sure you go about sorting through faces in a crowd your own way, as do I.topal63 wrote:
Your argument is not doing well – it's falling like a Led Zeppelin. To say you conceive of a type is to suggest your considering race to begin with; right up front. That is not how you do it. Why not conceive of no type / no one / or consider the depth of Buddhism, Tao, Zen, or a rich History you may no little about - instead.Cougar wrote:
… you have people that are at the forefront and are kind of like spokespeople or role models or like, I dunno, figure heads. Now for certain races there are people that I, personally, automatically visualise when I think of them. For instance when someone mentions the asian race I think of Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Dean Cain or Rob Schneider (yep, the last two are asian).
.
But I value your opinion none the less.
This is what is GOOD about an internet debate, that it is really an exchange of ideas... & not a real debate (that’s too formal and/or pointless).
But, I don’t filter, and the point I was making, is that it takes a bit of effort to be non-racist, non-tribal, thoughtful, when considering people. Our discriminations (filters) do not end at a color-line or so-called racial features - that is just one-reason why we react as opposed to not-reacting (thinking; being thoughtful). We also discriminate based upon: looks, fitness (fatness), hair length, accents, clothes (attire), education level, height, religion, lack of religion, etc.
By default, more or less, people, like in nature, follow this simple rule "birds of a certain feather flock together." This is a lowest common denominator type of human thought. It is tribal. It is an automatic mode, an US vs THEM tribal mode of thinking as old as the Bible (which contains an open rejection of those outside the group). In your filtering method, I propose that you’re doing what you would consider idiotic if say Bill O'Reilly did it. In his method of exclusion by concluding before reasoning with the individual before him - Bill O’ tells people what they’re REALLY saying, who they REALLY are, and how they as a “them” (not “us”) are to be rejected basically in their entirety. He re-draws the form of a person before him into a cartoon, and then denounces the cartoon.
Also it is one thing to have racist thoughts it is another to commit racism. You may very well be a racist, to some degree (as you have admitted and correctly assumed others to some degree are as well) but it is possible that you have never been in a position to level oppression upon another person, and have never committed racism as an act. Who has Cougar oppressed, who’s education have you denied/disallowed, who’s job have you denied/disallowed based upon race - quite possibly no-one. Who has Imus oppressed - quite possibly no-one; offended sure - but actually oppressed?
There are different perspectives to see this Imus thing, or your personal racist thoughts, and on a different perspective I kinda agree. Is a thought a crime? Is an offensive utterance being blown out of proportion? You can make it illegal to commit the act - but do we need all this political correctness, do we need thought police, do we need to silence all comments and thoughts we find offensive (it is possible to offend certain individuals no matter what you say)? It is one thing to confront Imus, it is another to dismiss him in his entirety.
I have not dismissed your thinking, about this concept, in entirety (that is like throwing the baby out with the bathwater, or dismissing Imus based upon a few errors committed) as many ideas are contained in your premise. Some seem valid, others seem not so.
Last edited by topal63 (2007-04-12 09:28:21)
I see where you are coming from. I also never actually figured in being a racist in the physical realm being a separate entity from being a racist in the mental realm. Like I said, everyone has prejudices in the mental aspect of things and for someone to say the didn't would be a blatant lie. My prejudices lay primarily in my mind, be it because of environments, people, situations or a combination of all of these I don't know, but I would not deny them.topal63 wrote:
I just wanted to fit “Led Zeppelin” into a sentence as a metaphor, my bad.Cougar wrote:
Good points and I see where you are coming from, except for this. It isn't falling, it never was, because it really isn't a point to be argued. This is because it is my perspective, not yours, not his, not theirs. Mine. You have your perspective, I have mine. I'm sure you go about sorting through faces in a crowd your own way, as do I.topal63 wrote:
Your argument is not doing well – it's falling like a Led Zeppelin. To say you conceive of a type is to suggest your considering race to begin with; right up front. That is not how you do it. Why not conceive of no type / no one / or consider the depth of Buddhism, Tao, Zen, or a rich History you may no little about - instead.
.
But I value your opinion none the less.
This is what is GOOD about an internet debate, that it is really an exchange of ideas... & not a real debate (that’s too formal and/or pointless).
But, I don’t filter, and the point I was making, is that it takes a bit of effort to be non-racist, non-tribal, thoughtful, when considering people. Our discriminations (filters) do not end at a color-line or so-called racial features - that is just one-reason why we react as opposed to not-reacting (thinking; being thoughtful). We also discriminate based upon: looks, fitness (fatness), hair length, accents, clothes (attire), education level, height, religion, lack of religion, etc.
By default, more or less, people, like in nature, follow this simple rule "birds of a certain feather flock together." This is a lowest common denominator type of human thought. It is tribal. It is an automatic mode, an US vs THEM tribal mode of thinking as old as the Bible (which contains an open rejection of those outside the group). In your filtering method, I propose that you’re doing what you would consider idiotic if say Bill O'Reilly did it. In his method of exclusion by concluding before reasoning with the individual before him - Bill O’ tells people what they’re REALLY saying, who they REALLY are, and how they as a “them” (not “us”) are to be rejected basically in their entirety. He re-draws the form of a person before him into a cartoon, and then denounces the cartoon.
Also it is one thing to have racist thoughts it is another to commit racism. You may very well be a racist, to some degree (as you have admitted and correctly assumed others to some degree are as well) but it is possible that you have never been in a position to level oppression upon another person, and have never committed racism as an act. Who has Cougar oppressed, who’s education have you denied/disallowed, who’s job have you denied/disallowed based upon race - quite possibly no-one. Who has Imus oppressed - quite possibly no-one; offended sure - but actually oppressed?
There are different perspectives to see this Imus thing, or your personal racist thoughts, and on a different perspective I kinda agree. Is a thought a crime? Is an offensive utterance being blown out of proportion? You can make it illegal to commit the act - but do we need all this political correctness, do we need thought police, do we need to silence all comments and thoughts we find offensive (it is possible to offend certain individuals no matter what you say)? It is one thing to confront Imus, it is another to dismiss him in his entirety.
I have not dismissed your thinking, about this concept, in entirety (that is like throwing the baby out with the bathwater, or dismissing Imus based upon a few errors committed) as many ideas are contained in your premise. Some seem valid, others seem not so.
Now, one thing I will say is that I do have some radical theories and stances on race throughout the course of history, but those aren't really anyone else's business but my own, just as everyone has their own views of the world. My way of generalizing may seem brash in your eyes, but in my own, at this point, it's really all the effort it deserves as far as I'm concerned.
*But wouldn't you consider it remarkable for a man to set aside his instincts, base thoughts, in favor of a principle (has integrity), irregardless of how he feels personally? It is like the person who both defends separation of Church & State, and defends the right to practice Religion - irregardless of personal views on the matter (God & Religion).
I actually think, you hold in mind the princple "I would not deny them" (integrity) as being more important than casual discriminations (I actually think brash is not how I would put it, more like "casual." I don't see people making a massive amount effort in our collective discriminations).
Also keep posting as the ideas are interesting... to me.
*That of course is a rhetorical question, as you've already displayed the princple of integrity already.
Note: When I was single - I was sexist. There was no fucking way I was going to be married to a fat chick, just because she shared common interests and had a nice personality - fuck that idea. I discriminated, and I didn't do it casually either.
I actually think, you hold in mind the princple "I would not deny them" (integrity) as being more important than casual discriminations (I actually think brash is not how I would put it, more like "casual." I don't see people making a massive amount effort in our collective discriminations).
Also keep posting as the ideas are interesting... to me.
*That of course is a rhetorical question, as you've already displayed the princple of integrity already.
Note: When I was single - I was sexist. There was no fucking way I was going to be married to a fat chick, just because she shared common interests and had a nice personality - fuck that idea. I discriminated, and I didn't do it casually either.
Ditto!Kmarion wrote:
The fact that Cougar does not feel compelled to abide by the the Political Correct BS agenda is admirable. Being politically correct does not change anyones views. It is a tool of deceit used to hide personal opinion. I would rather look someone in the eye and have them tell me their true beliefs than worry about the thin skinned.
Last edited by topal63 (2007-04-12 12:12:53)
The fact that Cougar does not feel compelled to abide by the the Political Correct BS agenda is admirable. Being politically correct does not change anyones views. It is a tool of deceit used to hide personal opinion. I would rather look someone in the eye and have them tell me their true beliefs than worry about the thin skinned.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Oh, I'm sorry "Voice of the Masses," I suppose I'll let you dwell in ignorance then.Spark wrote:
Just STFU now. Everyone here is already sick of your stuck-up attitude.Sanjaya wrote:
Wow, with a number that high, I would have thought you'd actually be smart. Then again, the whole IQ system is inherently flawed, but you knew that. Right, genius?.robzored. wrote:
W/E i'm not going down to your level of petty flaming. (btw, I.Q. 182)
Could you? Could you please?Sanjaya wrote:
Oh, I'm sorry "Voice of the Masses," I suppose I'll let you dwell in ignorance then.Spark wrote:
Just STFU now. Everyone here is already sick of your stuck-up attitude.Sanjaya wrote:
Wow, with a number that high, I would have thought you'd actually be smart. Then again, the whole IQ system is inherently flawed, but you knew that. Right, genius?
K.....thanks. Kindly GTFO.
KiL
Well now, yet again, I have returned from the depths of lurking through the forum to post.
Before I get started I will post a disclaimer.
THESE ARE MY THOUGHTS TO BE INTERPRETED HOWEVER YOU SEE FIT. PLEASE DO NOT MISCONSTRUE THE OPINION THAT I AM GOING TO STATE AS FACTS UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED AND CITED.
In order for me to start I will have to give you all a little bit of background information about me. Born in 1978, August 11th at 1:02am EST. Long Branch New Jersey. Grew up in Asbury Park, NJ. (note, asbury park is mainly a ghetto, it was a popular tourist place before the riots that began on July 4, 1970). After the riots, asbury park started down the road to a bad place to live. There was still the statement "across the tracks" however, every neighborhood in asbury was on a downward spiral. More information about me... I am Greek, born 2nd generation in america. Everyone in my entire family was racists. I grew up learning the machine that is modern date hate, and all of it's inner workings. However, I learned that black people were not all bad on my own... contrary to popular belief in my house.. .omg what was I to do... the only thing a young teen could do... rebel. I started to date people of other ethnic backgrounds. My father learned to deal with it. So, now that you all know how and why I have the thoughts that I have now, I will share them with you.
The meaning of the word negro derives its origins from the latin language, meaning black. Then it was used to describe the color of black people's skin, correctly so, as using the word blanco (or white) would be incorrect. From there it became a word that slave owners used towards their slaves. Much like the Egyptians used the word "Jews" towards their slaves. So, would the word jewish, be deemed as a racial insult? I do not want to get off on a rant here so I will leave this point alone. So now lets move on. Everyone wants to treat everyone else with kids gloves so their feelings do not get hurt. Please ask me if I care if your feelings are hurt.... I will still have no problems going to sleep tonight this is for sure. You control your feelings, not I, so how is it that your feelings remain hurt after a statement that I were to make. (i.e. some of the laziest people in the USA are black). How does this hurt you??... Correct me if I am wrong but look at the majority of people on welfare. And now if that is not lazy I do not know what is. If you do not have any ambition and want to make something of yourself, please do not suck the life blood out of this country any longer... kill yourselves. Black, white, yellow, or green, EARN A LIVING, pay YOUR taxes, provide for YOUR families, feed / clothe / care for YOUR OWN children. Why do I have to pay more and more taxes each and every year to take on the responsibilities of YOUR families. I should not. The hard working American people (again, black, white, yellow or green) who make HONEST livings should not have to bear the burden of the lazy. If you do not have a skill that would enable you to get a job and stop collecting welfare, develop one. It is that simple. My only skill after getting out of the military was effectively knowing how to stop acts of aggression with the minimal force necessary (the military's phrase that they use in training, while training you how to inflect harm upon people). So I went to college (paid for by me, no student loans, no aid from the government that I didn't earn, and no I was not born into a rich family) to learn more about computers. After completing college, I still worked low level jobs until I had enough industry experience to obtain a higher paying job. This included working for on a help desk, building computers, running CAT5, and trouble shooting hardware to the component level. Thus this enabled me to obtain the current position that I am in, Sr. Network Design Engineer. And btw, I am still not done learning to make myself more marketable to enable me to make more money, so I can take care of my OWN family.
However, with the above being stated, it is not just black people that are lazy, it is white people, it is the yellow people, and the green people that make up america's lazy and unemployed population also. If you have to make your living cleaning restrooms or cooking in for a fast food chain you are still making a living until you can learn how to do something better.
I am a racist, and I will tell you who it is that I hate. I HATE all lazy people, every last one of you. If you are 18, white, living in your parents basement and not going to school and refuse to move out cause you want to be lazy... I hate you and everything that you stand for. If you are 25 and to lazy to learn a skill that will enable you to get a job, I hate you, and everything that you stand for. If you are 45 and tired of being a janitor so you quit and collect unemployment until that runs out and then collect welfare, I hate you and everything that you stand for. If you are IGNORANT, I hate you and everything that you stand for. And most of all if you think that you and "your people" DESERVE something because of historical events that YOU yourself, were not present for... I HATE YOU, and everything that you stand for. If you are a drug dealer, or other "profession" that is illegal or immoral, I hate you and everything that you stand for.
Respect is EARNED not granted. If you think that you can demand respect because you are white, black, asian, euorpean, or whatever you are, you are sadly mistaken. Once respect is earned then it is Commanded, when you command respect is when you have reached a level of your life in which you need nothing from anyone outside of your family.
And last thought that I will give to all of you is my personal opinion and MY opinion only. If you have no ambition, no dreams, nothing that you want to reach for or obtain, no goals or dreams that are realistic, I, in MY OPINION think that you should be slaughtered, like cattle, because it is you that brings this world down, further down into the cesspool that you created in this world. Like lemmings marching into the sea you should all die on the rocks below or drown in the feces that you have created for yourselves. In short, go die in a car fire.
~Recon
Before I get started I will post a disclaimer.
THESE ARE MY THOUGHTS TO BE INTERPRETED HOWEVER YOU SEE FIT. PLEASE DO NOT MISCONSTRUE THE OPINION THAT I AM GOING TO STATE AS FACTS UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED AND CITED.
In order for me to start I will have to give you all a little bit of background information about me. Born in 1978, August 11th at 1:02am EST. Long Branch New Jersey. Grew up in Asbury Park, NJ. (note, asbury park is mainly a ghetto, it was a popular tourist place before the riots that began on July 4, 1970). After the riots, asbury park started down the road to a bad place to live. There was still the statement "across the tracks" however, every neighborhood in asbury was on a downward spiral. More information about me... I am Greek, born 2nd generation in america. Everyone in my entire family was racists. I grew up learning the machine that is modern date hate, and all of it's inner workings. However, I learned that black people were not all bad on my own... contrary to popular belief in my house.. .omg what was I to do... the only thing a young teen could do... rebel. I started to date people of other ethnic backgrounds. My father learned to deal with it. So, now that you all know how and why I have the thoughts that I have now, I will share them with you.
The meaning of the word negro derives its origins from the latin language, meaning black. Then it was used to describe the color of black people's skin, correctly so, as using the word blanco (or white) would be incorrect. From there it became a word that slave owners used towards their slaves. Much like the Egyptians used the word "Jews" towards their slaves. So, would the word jewish, be deemed as a racial insult? I do not want to get off on a rant here so I will leave this point alone. So now lets move on. Everyone wants to treat everyone else with kids gloves so their feelings do not get hurt. Please ask me if I care if your feelings are hurt.... I will still have no problems going to sleep tonight this is for sure. You control your feelings, not I, so how is it that your feelings remain hurt after a statement that I were to make. (i.e. some of the laziest people in the USA are black). How does this hurt you??... Correct me if I am wrong but look at the majority of people on welfare. And now if that is not lazy I do not know what is. If you do not have any ambition and want to make something of yourself, please do not suck the life blood out of this country any longer... kill yourselves. Black, white, yellow, or green, EARN A LIVING, pay YOUR taxes, provide for YOUR families, feed / clothe / care for YOUR OWN children. Why do I have to pay more and more taxes each and every year to take on the responsibilities of YOUR families. I should not. The hard working American people (again, black, white, yellow or green) who make HONEST livings should not have to bear the burden of the lazy. If you do not have a skill that would enable you to get a job and stop collecting welfare, develop one. It is that simple. My only skill after getting out of the military was effectively knowing how to stop acts of aggression with the minimal force necessary (the military's phrase that they use in training, while training you how to inflect harm upon people). So I went to college (paid for by me, no student loans, no aid from the government that I didn't earn, and no I was not born into a rich family) to learn more about computers. After completing college, I still worked low level jobs until I had enough industry experience to obtain a higher paying job. This included working for on a help desk, building computers, running CAT5, and trouble shooting hardware to the component level. Thus this enabled me to obtain the current position that I am in, Sr. Network Design Engineer. And btw, I am still not done learning to make myself more marketable to enable me to make more money, so I can take care of my OWN family.
However, with the above being stated, it is not just black people that are lazy, it is white people, it is the yellow people, and the green people that make up america's lazy and unemployed population also. If you have to make your living cleaning restrooms or cooking in for a fast food chain you are still making a living until you can learn how to do something better.
I am a racist, and I will tell you who it is that I hate. I HATE all lazy people, every last one of you. If you are 18, white, living in your parents basement and not going to school and refuse to move out cause you want to be lazy... I hate you and everything that you stand for. If you are 25 and to lazy to learn a skill that will enable you to get a job, I hate you, and everything that you stand for. If you are 45 and tired of being a janitor so you quit and collect unemployment until that runs out and then collect welfare, I hate you and everything that you stand for. If you are IGNORANT, I hate you and everything that you stand for. And most of all if you think that you and "your people" DESERVE something because of historical events that YOU yourself, were not present for... I HATE YOU, and everything that you stand for. If you are a drug dealer, or other "profession" that is illegal or immoral, I hate you and everything that you stand for.
Respect is EARNED not granted. If you think that you can demand respect because you are white, black, asian, euorpean, or whatever you are, you are sadly mistaken. Once respect is earned then it is Commanded, when you command respect is when you have reached a level of your life in which you need nothing from anyone outside of your family.
And last thought that I will give to all of you is my personal opinion and MY opinion only. If you have no ambition, no dreams, nothing that you want to reach for or obtain, no goals or dreams that are realistic, I, in MY OPINION think that you should be slaughtered, like cattle, because it is you that brings this world down, further down into the cesspool that you created in this world. Like lemmings marching into the sea you should all die on the rocks below or drown in the feces that you have created for yourselves. In short, go die in a car fire.
~Recon