Flag burnings for pussies.
1. Fuck you Troll Boy. Have you ever started a post? NO. Again, was I even writing to you? NO.HunterOfSkulls wrote:
One, eagles aren't manufactured by the thousands in Chinese factories.DBBrinson1 wrote:
I see the flag as a protected national icon (like the Bald Eagle) you don't.
Two, if you're going to kill someone over ten bucks worth of cloth, you've got fucking issues.
Three, if you're just talking shit about killing someone over ten bucks worth of cloth and have no intention of doing it, you've still got fucking issues.
Whether it's fundamentalist muslims getting all bent about cartoons of Mohammed (which was doubly stupid of them because it seems like the cartoons were calculated to get just that reaction) or Americans getting all bent about someone torching some fabric, I just don't fucking get it. It's a symbol of an idea. The symbol can be destroyed but as long as the idea survives it can be recreated. Maybe some folks should worry more about protecting the idea instead of some piece of fabric it inspired.
2. Would I kill you for trespassing on my property, lowering my Flag (it ain't yours, it means nothing to you -pathetic), and setting it on fire? You bet I would. Then I'd piss on your body..
3. I'm not surprised you don't get it. You probably don't get allot of things. Like Patriotism. If you don't see the significance of an American flag then -you mamn' have some issues.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
Ooooh, a little angry are we? News flash for ya Skippy, if you post something in a public forum you don't run, you don't get to tell people whether they can respond or not. That's the job of the moderators and last time I checked, you're not one of them. If and when they tell me something, I will abide by it because this is ultimately their forum and not mine, but you, you can fucking deal with it.DBBrinson1 wrote:
1. Fuck you Troll Boy. Have you ever started a post? NO. Again, was I even writing to you? NO.
Yes very scary. I'm sure everybody here is impressed by what you would do in the extremely unlikely event someone would bother to step on your property, haul down your rag and burn it. But you left out "Then I'd get sent to pound-me-in-the-ass prison for killing someone who posed me no actual physical threat." at the end there, tough guy.DBBrinson1 wrote:
2. Would I kill you for trespassing on my property, lowering my Flag (it ain't yours, it means nothing to you -pathetic), and setting it on fire? You bet I would. Then I'd piss on your body..
I see the significance of the flag as representing ideals that cannot be destroyed by fire, but can only be destroyed by forgetting those ideals, when people put more stock in the symbol than what it stands for. You're a perfect example of that. As long as we remember where we came from, what we've fought to be where we are and the sacrifices of those that came before us, those ideals will never die, not as long as they still exist in the minds of those who value freedom. Burn a million flags and it still survives. You, you've forgotten that if you ever knew it, and because of that I feel deeply sorry for you.DBBrinson1 wrote:
3. I'm not surprised you don't get it. You probably don't get allot of things. Like Patriotism. If you don't see the significance of an American flag then -you mamn' have some issues.
We went so far as to nuke Japan twice, but I wouldn't call it leveled. Sorry, couldn't resist clarifying.GorillaTicTacs wrote:
Yeah, its nothing like completely leveling a country because you had a tiff with its dictator...sorry, couldn't resist the cheap shot.The fact is that destroying an object that represents many things is still a goofy way of expressing malcontent at a few things...
Strange that flag retirement's so rarely brought up.jonsimon wrote:
The only way to retire a US flag properly is to burn it.
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2007-04-08 22:24:15)
I did a search. You have a lot of responses, yet have not started a thread. Why?HunterOfSkulls wrote:
Ooooh, a little angry are we? News flash for ya Skippy, if you post something in a public forum you don't run, you don't get to tell people whether they can respond or not. That's the job of the moderators and last time I checked, you're not one of them. If and when they tell me something, I will abide by it because this is ultimately their forum and not mine, but you, you can fucking deal with it.DBBrinson1 wrote:
1. Fuck you Troll Boy. Have you ever started a post? NO. Again, was I even writing to you? NO.
I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that starting a thread was a prerequisite for participation here. That all you got?Jet Blast wrote:
I did a search. You have a lot of responses, yet have not started a thread. Why?
What's your point? I find him to be one of the most intelligent new-ish members around.Jet Blast wrote:
I did a search. You have a lot of responses, yet have not started a thread. Why?HunterOfSkulls wrote:
Ooooh, a little angry are we? News flash for ya Skippy, if you post something in a public forum you don't run, you don't get to tell people whether they can respond or not. That's the job of the moderators and last time I checked, you're not one of them. If and when they tell me something, I will abide by it because this is ultimately their forum and not mine, but you, you can fucking deal with it.DBBrinson1 wrote:
1. Fuck you Troll Boy. Have you ever started a post? NO. Again, was I even writing to you? NO.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Just wondering why he never started one, since he is so intelligent. And what does "what you find him to be" have to do with my question?Spark wrote:
What's your point? I find him to be one of the most intelligent new-ish members around.Jet Blast wrote:
I did a search. You have a lot of responses, yet have not started a thread. Why?HunterOfSkulls wrote:
Ooooh, a little angry are we? News flash for ya Skippy, if you post something in a public forum you don't run, you don't get to tell people whether they can respond or not. That's the job of the moderators and last time I checked, you're not one of them. If and when they tell me something, I will abide by it because this is ultimately their forum and not mine, but you, you can fucking deal with it.
Last edited by Jet Blast (2007-04-09 10:19:21)
3. I don't agree with burning the flag, it is a symbol of the US and of all its citizens. So in a sense, they are saying "Fuck all Americans". If nobody cares about our nations flag, then maybe we shouldn't have one?HunterOfSkulls wrote:
Ooooh, a little angry are we? News flash for ya Skippy, if you post something in a public forum you don't run, you don't get to tell people whether they can respond or not. That's the job of the moderators and last time I checked, you're not one of them. If and when they tell me something, I will abide by it because this is ultimately their forum and not mine, but you, you can fucking deal with it.DBBrinson1 wrote:
1. Fuck you Troll Boy. Have you ever started a post? NO. Again, was I even writing to you? NO.
1. people get pissed off in BF2S servers, its normalYes very scary. I'm sure everybody here is impressed by what you would do in the extremely unlikely event someone would bother to step on your property, haul down your rag and burn it. But you left out "Then I'd get sent to pound-me-in-the-ass prison for killing someone who posed me no actual physical threat." at the end there, tough guy.DBBrinson1 wrote:
2. Would I kill you for trespassing on my property, lowering my Flag (it ain't yours, it means nothing to you -pathetic), and setting it on fire? You bet I would. Then I'd piss on your body..
2. If someone was lowering my flag, I'd prolly tell him to leave first. Then I would shoot him, and shoot him again to make sure he was dead and he couldnt file a lawsuiteI see the significance of the flag as representing ideals that cannot be destroyed by fire, but can only be destroyed by forgetting those ideals, when people put more stock in the symbol than what it stands for. You're a perfect example of that. As long as we remember where we came from, what we've fought to be where we are and the sacrifices of those that came before us, those ideals will never die, not as long as they still exist in the minds of those who value freedom. Burn a million flags and it still survives. You, you've forgotten that if you ever knew it, and because of that I feel deeply sorry for you.DBBrinson1 wrote:
3. I'm not surprised you don't get it. You probably don't get allot of things. Like Patriotism. If you don't see the significance of an American flag then -you mamn' have some issues.
Yes, but that is "honorable", its not like they are doing it because they are mad at the US.jonsimon wrote:
The only way to retire a US flag properly is to burn it.
Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
Flag burnings for pussies.
I used to think that flag burning should be illegal. However, I realized that it would be denying others their freedom of speech. I realize that they don't realize what they are doing, and that others are (and have) protected their rights to be idiots. When people burn the flag, they ARE disrespecting this country, its ideals, and those who fought for them; and simultaniously hiding behind the ideals of this country (and the sacrifice of those who fought for them). That, to me, is idiotic. Do I think its right? Hell no! Do I think we should take away their right to do that? No, that would be hypocritical.
I haven't read all the posts....but you guys need to mention...
Constitution protects freedom of speech but........ can be punishable if it presents a "clear and present" danger.
meaning you cant go to a us millitary base burn the us flag and expect the court to protect your right to freedom of speech....
I think burning a flag is stupid....its like admiting you don't have the ariticulate capacity to say what you feel, so you burn the flag.
It's pathetic and only done get attention.
Constitution protects freedom of speech but........ can be punishable if it presents a "clear and present" danger.
meaning you cant go to a us millitary base burn the us flag and expect the court to protect your right to freedom of speech....
I think burning a flag is stupid....its like admiting you don't have the ariticulate capacity to say what you feel, so you burn the flag.
It's pathetic and only done get attention.
How is it a clear and present danger to burn the US flag at a military base? Because some jackass will want to beat him up? Sorry, buddy, but you can go to a military base and burn the US flag. And if someone assaults you, that person will be prosecuted.jackdreaper wrote:
I haven't read all the posts....but you guys need to mention...
Constitution protects freedom of speech but........ can be punishable if it presents a "clear and present" danger.
meaning you cant go to a us millitary base burn the us flag and expect the court to protect your right to freedom of speech....
I think burning a flag is stupid....its like admiting you don't have the ariticulate capacity to say what you feel, so you burn the flag.
It's pathetic and only done get attention.
Reminds me of an experience I had -
I just finished surfing one day (probably about 7 months after 9/11) at San Onofre State Beach (which is actually on Camp Pendleton land and policed by MPs) when a Marine comes up to me, still getting out of his wetsuit. He says, "Hey, if you see any towelheads around here, you just tell the guys with the assault rifles." The first thing I thought was, why the hell does this guy think that "towelheads" are going to show up at a recreational beach, with no cover, and try to attack? What are they going to do, blow up the commissary there? I just went and told my dad and his buddies (all active or former Navy/Marines) what this guy said, and they all just replied, "yeah, that guys a douche bag" or something to that effect.
The point is, most sane, reasonable people (of which there are many in the military) do not react with such blind rage and emotion towards something so trivial as a piece of cloth.
I agree that it (flag burning) is done for attention, and is somewhat childish. To me it is just a piece of cloth. I do not idolize it, I do not think it is sacred. I do hold the ideals/ideals that our nation was founded on in very high regard though. Stuff that past and current politicians seem to throw out the window at a moments notice as a result of fearmongering.
Regardless, ordinances against flag burning are contradictory with the US flag code, which is federal law.Smitty5613 wrote:
Yes, but that is "honorable", its not like they are doing it because they are mad at the US.jonsimon wrote:
The only way to retire a US flag properly is to burn it.
Last edited by jonsimon (2007-04-09 11:55:01)
I agree 100% with this statement. Take the fundamental theories of each. Subtract the "holy prophet" of each religion and what do you get. The exact same religion.Mekstizzle wrote:
Just a side note. I'm not a fan of Islam (far from it) but even I think it's getting out of hand (the forums hatred of the religion). Plus most people don't realise how similair Christianity, Islam and Judaism really is...
1. All three claim the same city is the "holy city"
2. All believe in one true "god" and he created everything.
3. All believe that there is a "heaven" you get to if you qualify.
4. All believe that "god" was/will be in an earthly body at one point in time.
5. The "books" of each religion are surprisingly similar, (Christianity's book is same as Judaism's but with a second chapter)
6. Beside some fascist rules in each (example, pork is bad) they all claim if you live your life by the "book" (which are more or less the same) you will be rewarded with a heavenly eternal life.
Just felt like I'd comment on this part. But back to the topic:
Flagburning in my eyes is a right that all Americans have. If they understand that that flag is what gave them that right is beyond me. I admit, I've burned flags, not in a protest way, but to decommission them. If you ban flagburning, then we'll have to get a new way of doing this.
Compared to burning a sacred book, I don't see any difference. If someone finds the need to burn a book or a piece of cloth, by all means do it. Just remember that there are those out there that will kill at the sight of this. Sure you have the right to do these things, but they also have the right to protest your protesting....
***Edit***
Most of the time that people are arrested when they are burning a flag isn't because they are burning it. It is because they are breaching that "clear and present danger" part. You burn a flag, you will probably be charged with one or more of the following:
disorderly conduct, endangering the lives of others (depending where you do it), fire codes(depending where you do it), causing a riot(if one happens) and I'm sure many more.
The same things apply to the kid that held the "F*** Bush" sign up. Sure he has the right to do that, but in doing so, caused a reaction that could turn into one that infringes on the rights of others (their safety). You will never be arrested for burning a flag, but you will be arrested for many other things. The news doesn't catch on this, they never report that he was charged for reckless endangerment and disorderly conduct. The say that he was arrested solely for burning that flag.
The [skewed] Media is what causes the world's problems.
Last edited by Drexel (2007-04-09 13:52:44)
So if we shouldn't retire flags by burning them, should throw them in the garbage?jonsimon wrote:
Regardless, ordinances against flag burning are contradictory with the US flag code, which is federal law.Smitty5613 wrote:
Yes, but that is "honorable", its not like they are doing it because they are mad at the US.jonsimon wrote:
The only way to retire a US flag properly is to burn it.
QFEKEN-JENNINGS wrote:
How is it a clear and present danger to burn the US flag at a military base? Because some jackass will want to beat him up? Sorry, buddy, but you can go to a military base and burn the US flag. And if someone assaults you, that person will be prosecuted.jackdreaper wrote:
I haven't read all the posts....but you guys need to mention...
Constitution protects freedom of speech but........ can be punishable if it presents a "clear and present" danger.
meaning you cant go to a us millitary base burn the us flag and expect the court to protect your right to freedom of speech....
I think burning a flag is stupid....its like admiting you don't have the ariticulate capacity to say what you feel, so you burn the flag.
It's pathetic and only done get attention.
Reminds me of an experience I had -
I just finished surfing one day (probably about 7 months after 9/11) at San Onofre State Beach (which is actually on Camp Pendleton land and policed by MPs) when a Marine comes up to me, still getting out of his wetsuit. He says, "Hey, if you see any towelheads around here, you just tell the guys with the assault rifles." The first thing I thought was, why the hell does this guy think that "towelheads" are going to show up at a recreational beach, with no cover, and try to attack? What are they going to do, blow up the commissary there? I just went and told my dad and his buddies (all active or former Navy/Marines) what this guy said, and they all just replied, "yeah, that guys a douche bag" or something to that effect.
The point is, most sane, reasonable people (of which there are many in the military) do not react with such blind rage and emotion towards something so trivial as a piece of cloth.
I agree that it (flag burning) is done for attention, and is somewhat childish. To me it is just a piece of cloth. I do not idolize it, I do not think it is sacred. I do hold the ideals/ideals that our nation was founded on in very high regard though. Stuff that past and current politicians seem to throw out the window at a moments notice as a result of fearmongering.
I was just trying to give an example of what I thought is clear and present danger. BUDDY. I just wanted to point out that there have been supreme court cases, where freedom of speech was not upheld due to violation of the "clear and present danger" provision..... BUDDY.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
How is it a clear and present danger to burn the US flag at a military base? Because some jackass will want to beat him up? Sorry, buddy, but you can go to a military base and burn the US flag. And if someone assaults you, that person will be prosecuted.jackdreaper wrote:
I haven't read all the posts....but you guys need to mention...
Constitution protects freedom of speech but........ can be punishable if it presents a "clear and present" danger.
meaning you cant go to a us millitary base burn the us flag and expect the court to protect your right to freedom of speech....
I think burning a flag is stupid....its like admiting you don't have the ariticulate capacity to say what you feel, so you burn the flag.
It's pathetic and only done get attention.
Reminds me of an experience I had -
I just finished surfing one day (probably about 7 months after 9/11) at San Onofre State Beach (which is actually on Camp Pendleton land and policed by MPs) when a Marine comes up to me, still getting out of his wetsuit. He says, "Hey, if you see any towelheads around here, you just tell the guys with the assault rifles." The first thing I thought was, why the hell does this guy think that "towelheads" are going to show up at a recreational beach, with no cover, and try to attack? What are they going to do, blow up the commissary there? I just went and told my dad and his buddies (all active or former Navy/Marines) what this guy said, and they all just replied, "yeah, that guys a douche bag" or something to that effect.
The point is, most sane, reasonable people (of which there are many in the military) do not react with such blind rage and emotion towards something so trivial as a piece of cloth.
I agree that it (flag burning) is done for attention, and is somewhat childish. To me it is just a piece of cloth. I do not idolize it, I do not think it is sacred. I do hold the ideals/ideals that our nation was founded on in very high regard though. Stuff that past and current politicians seem to throw out the window at a moments notice as a result of fearmongering.
No body cares about some duchebag marine you met at a beach.......no one, not even you. For all we know, you made it up....
I think the supreme court case had to do with.... kkk's and the million man march...i cant remember exactly, i learned of it like 5 years ago.... BUDDY!
Thank you for the intelligent and reasonable post.jackdreaper wrote:
I was just trying to give an example of what I thought is clear and present danger. BUDDY. I just wanted to point out that there have been supreme court cases, where freedom of speech was not upheld due to violation of the "clear and present danger" provision..... BUDDY.
No body cares about some duchebag marine you met at a beach.......no one, not even you. For all we know, you made it up....
I think the supreme court case had to do with.... kkk's and the million man march...i cant remember exactly, i learned of it like 5 years ago.... BUDDY!
I feel like I made a buddy.
Bullshit! is the greatest television show ever created, even if they are biased in some episodes.
Period.
Period.
As nobody answed my post I'll ask again. Are there actually lots of Americans who go around burning the American flag?
It always seemed a bit pointless trying to get a law about flag burning when most of the flag burning going on seems to be on foreign soil where an American law will make no difference.
It always seemed a bit pointless trying to get a law about flag burning when most of the flag burning going on seems to be on foreign soil where an American law will make no difference.
No. It is a hot-button issue because of what people percieve the flag to symbolize.PureFodder wrote:
As nobody answed my post I'll ask again. Are there actually lots of Americans who go around burning the American flag?
It always seemed a bit pointless trying to get a law about flag burning when most of the flag burning going on seems to be on foreign soil where an American law will make no difference.
I am much more offended at the way politicians trample on our liberties/founding ideals than at some person burning a piece of cloth, that more often than not, was made by a 10 year-old in a factory in China, and has been commercialized to the point that you can probably buy a red, white, and blue condom...
...but its sacred right?
edit: "These colors don't bleed!"
Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2007-04-10 11:28:16)