lowing
Banned
+1,662|6848|USA

HunterOfSkulls wrote:

lowing wrote:

"He's suggesting I and the rest of my fellow "useless eaters" should be dead, thereby relieving the honest, hardworking rich of the burden of having to deal with us. ".....He never suggested this................but now that you mention it....................why SHOULDN"T the honest and hardworking be relieved of having to deal with you???
You might want to read what your idol has had to say outside his book recently. He pretty much openly stated that in the event of a terrorist attack, the rich should recieve first priority and the rest of us steerage-class folks should probably be left to our fate. And why shouldn't we? Because we're fucking human, good and bad just like everyone else. Yes, some of the poor are cheats and sneaky and they take advantage of the system. So are some of the rich.

lowing wrote:

What he does suggest is this..........Take advantage of being an American and all the social assistance out there, and do something for yourself, instead of waiting for the govt. to do it for you....But yeah I know, you hate this notion.
You obviously weren't paying attention through my last two posts. I did try to work with the public assistance system and it's just a big fucking trap. I am doing something for myself but the only reason I was able to do so is because I got a hand up from people immediately around me who were better off than I was. You know, people who did the exact opposite of what Boortz seems to want people to do. Sorry, I didn't pay for this computer and broadband connection with food stamps, I paid for it with the money I earned from my trades. I wouldn't be here where I am now, productive and working, without the help of people who didn't just say "You made bad decisions, screw you".


lowing wrote:

I also love your opinion that basically says fuck rich people and their charities. You dismiss their contributions as meaningless, then in the same breath bitch that they have everything and you have nothing.....Are you sure you don't wanna change your opinion to something that makes sense??
My opinion isn't "fuck rich people and their charities", it's more like "fuck anyone who uses charity as a way to make themselves look like a better person when they're not". If you're going to donate what's pocket change for you to a charity just so you can sneer "Oh yeah? Well I donated more money than you.", your reasons for doing it become transparent. For fuck's sake man, Al Capone ran soup kitchens for the poor during the Depression, did that make him a nice person, or did it just make him a scumbag murdering mobster trying to con the public into thinking he was a nice guy? If charity is just the shield you use to protect yourself from criticism, then it is meaningless.

People like Boortz give Americans a raw deal. They're ready to throw out people who can be productive members of society given half a chance just because a few cheats happen to be among them. They spin crazy stories about how you can be under the poverty line with a million dollars in the bank or how poor people are driving around in brand new cars they bought with food stamps, but they never offer any proof that such things are actually happening often enough to be cause for concern. The best they can do is find one or two examples of such extraordinary cheats of the system and then those are used to write off millions of other people. All so you can feel better about yourself when you turn your back on that veteran who didn't make the decision to go to Vietnam and then be forgotten by his government when he came back. So you can feel comfortable when you ignore that teenage girl who didn't decide to be her father's sex toy. So you don't experience those annoying pangs of conscience when you walk by the schizophrenic who didn't decide to hear voices in his head and definitley didn't decide to get turned out on the streets when Reagan cut funding for the programs caring for the mentally ill. No, not every "urban outdoorsman" has a real hard luck story like that, some of them are just kids who think it's cool to be on the streets and yes some of them are actual criminal-minded people who take advantage of being one of the faceless street people. But saying they all chose to be where they are? It's just dishonest on its face and the reasons for doing so are both painfully obvious and seriously pathetic.

That's my peace on the subject folks. Discuss amongst yourselves; it's starting to leave too much of a bad taste in my mouth to continue.
Once again I am going to keep this short and sweet:


So, bottom line,

who exactly are you going to blame for your life?? The rich?? Please keep in mind as you "get on your feet" that you are probably WORKING for a rich person. Or are you going to be the first person in history who asked a poor person for a job?

Explain why exactly you would re-populate the earth with people who will do nothing with the opportunity? YOu have to assume this, since they did nothing with their lives before the"disaster" when it was probably easier to do so. At least the wealthy can rebuild society.

you want to say the rich are just "lucky", that hard work, passion, determination, education, motivation had nothing to do with their success.

you want to say the poor are just "unlucky", that lack of responsibility, no education, no motivation, no work ethic, no passion or will, has anything to do with it.

Figures you are going to hang your hat on good or bad luck and not responsibility.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6602|North Carolina

theelviscerator wrote:

Liberals help the poor with other peoples money, never their own.
Yep, not a single liberal gives to charity...  Isn't that right, Rush?
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6602|North Carolina

lowing wrote:

why SHOULDN"T the honest and hardworking be relieved of having to deal with you???
I know you're not religious, but I find it ironic how most of the Religious Right would likely agree with you.

lowing wrote:

What he does suggest is this..........Take advantage of being an American and all the social assistance out there, and do something for yourself, instead of waiting for the govt. to do it for you....But yeah I know, you hate this notion.
Boortz also seems to feel that charity can cover all the assistance needed in society for people who fall on hard times.  Apparently, he's not very familiar with poverty or having to raise a family on little funds....
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6602|North Carolina

lowing wrote:

you want to say the rich are just "lucky", that hard work, passion, determination, education, motivation had nothing to do with their success.

you want to say the poor are just "unlucky", that lack of responsibility, no education, no motivation, no work ethic, no passion or will, has anything to do with it.

Figures you are going to hang your hat on good or bad luck and not responsibility.
On the flip side, conservatives are loathe to admit that some things are beyond your personal control.  Is it my fault if my company goes under tomorrow?  Is it my fault if I need assistance for just a few months since I'm having trouble finding a job?

Thankfully, I have a stable job that pays well, but plenty of people aren't as lucky as me or you.  It's not all a matter of chance, but it's also not all a matter under your control.
Darth_Fleder
Mod from the Church of the Painful Truth
+533|7003|Orlando, FL - Age 43

HunterOfSkulls wrote:

You know, the funny part is, I used to buy this shit. A long damn time ago when I lived a comfortable suburban existance, I too thought the poor were poor because they were just unfit to live in society. Then I got laid off a few times. I made tough decisions, but they weren't whether to buy a tv or not but whether I was going to eat or my kids were. I had to decide between rent, food, heat and electricity. I went through illnesses without health insurance and without even going to emergency care because we couldn't afford the extra bills. I've made it through that, we could be more comfortable but we're doing better than a lot of other people. And I've learned a few things along the way. One, the poor are human. Many of the poor will give you something you need even if they're more broke than you are while some suit-and-tie scumbag will look at you like you're a disease. Are they all decent souls just fallen on hard times? No. But they're not all the worthless trash that feel-good-about-your-selfishness folks like Boortz claim they are. Two, people who talk all this pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps shit like Boortz honestly couldn't hack the existance of those living below the poverty line. There's no new car, no servants, no million-dollar checking account and he knows it. He knows he's not speaking the truth, he knows he's offering a big fat injection of tranquilizers to your conscience so you don't feel bad about yourself for judging people you know nothing about. He's there to assure you that you could never end up like those nasty poor people because you work hard and you believe in the system and you're a good little citizen. Me, I'm here to tell you that ol' Neal is so full of shit you could wring him out and turn the Sahara Desert into prime farmland. Shit happens, kids. Sometimes things come at you in life that you have zero control over and no ammount of working hard, saying your prayers and eating your vitamins will stop them from bulldozing through your comfortable little world. If that happens, you can bet your ass Neal isn't going to be there to pull you out of the wreckage.
It all come down to choices junior....if you were in a position of not having enough food to put on the table....then you my friend have made bad choices. Where was the money that you made before the layoff? Live paycheck to paycheck did you. I have also been layed off and took a $7.50 an hour job sweeping out parking lots at a convenience store and no-one starved in my house....of course I cut out the cable, cell, going out, eating out, drinking smoking, etc. It meant choosing food you actually have to cook...69 cents a pound chicken or better yet turkey (for $35.00 you can feed a family of five for a week and that includes fresh vegetables and a sack of potatoes) Oh yeah...and prior to the layoff, I lived below my means so I actually had some money set aside for the lean times. Those are choices that I made and continue to make. Ahh yes...and then I got a second job...and went back to school at the same time and still continued to feed myself, my wife and the kids. 

Don't cry me this poor me 'had to choose between the children and myself who would eat' that's just poor planning on your part which you expect society to cover for you. Oh yeah....where your friends and family during this traumatic time? Don't have them or were you too proud to ask them? You may not have family...there are orphans in the world....but on the other hand, they might not give a damn if you starve or your children either, why is that? If you don't have family, why don't you have friends that would help?? Is it because you are too proud to ask friends and have to ask the government to use it's police power to collect money for a handout to you because you weren't bright enough to put money aside for yourself when times were good? Obviously, no one owes you any favors.....why is that? Don't do anything nice when times are good? Didn't go to church either...oh wait, liberals don't believe in God...so we don't go there....even though you meet people who go out of their way to make sure that you don't starve in hard times....these are all choices. Start acting like a man and make the right ones....that means taking responsibility for everything that may come your way and stop trying to push this bull that you have no control. Poverty is the sum of all choices in this country.


Turquoise wrote:

On the flip side, conservatives are loathe to admit that some things are beyond your personal control.  Is it my fault if my company goes under tomorrow?  Is it my fault if I need assistance for just a few months since I'm having trouble finding a job?

Thankfully, I have a stable job that pays well, but plenty of people aren't as lucky as me or you.  It's not all a matter of chance, but it's also not all a matter under your control.
What is under your control is what you do in preparing for the eventuality of your company going under. If you are not prepared then hell yes, it's your fault.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6602|North Carolina

Darth_Fleder wrote:

Don't cry me this poor me 'had to choose between the children and myself who would eat' that's just poor planning on your part which you expect society to cover for you.
Speaking of children... I'm guessing the children of the poor made a bad "choice" of being born into poverty...
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6602|North Carolina

Darth_Fleder wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

On the flip side, conservatives are loathe to admit that some things are beyond your personal control.  Is it my fault if my company goes under tomorrow?  Is it my fault if I need assistance for just a few months since I'm having trouble finding a job?

Thankfully, I have a stable job that pays well, but plenty of people aren't as lucky as me or you.  It's not all a matter of chance, but it's also not all a matter under your control.
What is under your control is what you do in preparing for the eventuality of your company going under. If you are not prepared then hell yes, it's your fault.
I made the example with the understanding that I work for the company -- I don't own or run it.  So, if an executive makes a shitty decision that tanks the company, that's somehow my fault?
HunterOfSkulls
Rated EC-10
+246|6477

Darth_Fleder wrote:

It all come down to choices junior....
Hold it, full stop. Junior? You're a whopping six years older than me. If you're going to condescend to me, at least try to be original, k?

If I had a fucking dime for every shitheel who came at me with this "If you just lived your life like I do, you wouldn't have these problems" bullshit, I could fill a swimming pool with them. Did I make bad decisions? Yes. I own each and every one of them. Did I sometimes get priorities wrong? Yes. Sometimes in an attempt to find a little fucking joy in life, I had the triple mocha or I took the family to go see a movie. What an evil fucking person I am compared to you. How unworthy I am. Oh to one day kneel in your shadow so that I might learn to be worthy.

Fuck you, Jack.

I didn't figure I had to go into chapter and verse of every corner I cut, every unecessary luxury we did without or every specific person that helped us out, but apparently some people are so fucking dense they need an itemized list otherwise I'm just another parasite living the high life on the system. So I'm not a man like you? Good. To me, being a man is realizing that I'm not the be-all end-all of how everyone should live, the archetype everyone should model themselves on or that my circumstances are the ones other people should be judged on. How vomitously arrogant. One size does not fucking well fit all. You fill in the lines between what I said with your own self-righteous conclusions and totally ignore what I did say. I never said I had no control. I never blamed any one person for my situation. I realize I made mistakes and bad decisions. But apparently that's not enough. Apparently I have to abase myself before you, my betters, loudly agree with you that I was a poor person, a sinner, but now I've seen the light and have renounced the evil that kept me in poverty. Apparently I'm supposed to forget that people with less than I ever had would still give me half a sandwich if I needed one while people like you would only give me a dirty look. If that's your price, forget it. I realized a long time ago I'll never be accepted by people like you and if I ever am, I'm obviously doing something horribly wrong.

Turquoise wrote:

I made the example with the understanding that I work for the company -- I don't own or run it.  So, if an executive makes a shitty decision that tanks the company, that's somehow my fault?
Come on Turq, don't you know that these paragons of human evolution here have prepared for every single eventuality in their lives and the ones they haven't prepared for they'll simply wade through like the juggernauts they are? We're in the presence of superior beings here, m'friend. Humans born without a single weakness and no breaking point. There's nothing they can't handle. There's nothing they haven't prepared for. There's a lot we could learn from them. Like how much shit you have to swallow before you're convinced you enjoy the taste.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6848|USA

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

you want to say the rich are just "lucky", that hard work, passion, determination, education, motivation had nothing to do with their success.

you want to say the poor are just "unlucky", that lack of responsibility, no education, no motivation, no work ethic, no passion or will, has anything to do with it.

Figures you are going to hang your hat on good or bad luck and not responsibility.
On the flip side, conservatives are loathe to admit that some things are beyond your personal control.  Is it my fault if my company goes under tomorrow?  Is it my fault if I need assistance for just a few months since I'm having trouble finding a job?

Thankfully, I have a stable job that pays well, but plenty of people aren't as lucky as me or you.  It's not all a matter of chance, but it's also not all a matter under your control.
Sorry Turquoise I am going to disagree with you.

If you lost your job and CAN NOT find another, that means you are not marketable or have a desirable skill set. It means the job you HAD was probably a dead end job in the first place if your experience there is worthless to anyone else. So again, whose fault is that?? I have fallen on hard times, I have been laid-off a few times, I have ALWAYS gotten another job, usually better than the one that laid me off. The reason for this is because I am marketable. If you live your life in Detroit and all you wanted to do is stick a bolt in a hole on Fords for artifically inflated wages, don't get pissed at me or anyone else when you get laid off and nobody seems to find your bolt installing experience valuable.

Also, the social programs already in place should be enough for anyone that IS/WAS worth a damn to get back on their feet. Just like Katrina, if, 2 years laters, you still are bitching about your conditions and how the govt. needs to keep paying your dumb ass...........YOU are the fucked up one, and probably was a worthless leech or tic BEFORE the hurricane.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6848|USA

HunterOfSkulls wrote:

Darth_Fleder wrote:

It all come down to choices junior....
Hold it, full stop. Junior? You're a whopping six years older than me. If you're going to condescend to me, at least try to be original, k?

If I had a fucking dime for every shitheel who came at me with this "If you just lived your life like I do, you wouldn't have these problems" bullshit, I could fill a swimming pool with them. Did I make bad decisions? Yes. I own each and every one of them. Did I sometimes get priorities wrong? Yes. Sometimes in an attempt to find a little fucking joy in life, I had the triple mocha or I took the family to go see a movie. What an evil fucking person I am compared to you. How unworthy I am. Oh to one day kneel in your shadow so that I might learn to be worthy.

Fuck you, Jack.

I didn't figure I had to go into chapter and verse of every corner I cut, every unecessary luxury we did without or every specific person that helped us out, but apparently some people are so fucking dense they need an itemized list otherwise I'm just another parasite living the high life on the system. So I'm not a man like you? Good. To me, being a man is realizing that I'm not the be-all end-all of how everyone should live, the archetype everyone should model themselves on or that my circumstances are the ones other people should be judged on. How vomitously arrogant. One size does not fucking well fit all. You fill in the lines between what I said with your own self-righteous conclusions and totally ignore what I did say. I never said I had no control. I never blamed any one person for my situation. I realize I made mistakes and bad decisions. But apparently that's not enough. Apparently I have to abase myself before you, my betters, loudly agree with you that I was a poor person, a sinner, but now I've seen the light and have renounced the evil that kept me in poverty. Apparently I'm supposed to forget that people with less than I ever had would still give me half a sandwich if I needed one while people like you would only give me a dirty look. If that's your price, forget it. I realized a long time ago I'll never be accepted by people like you and if I ever am, I'm obviously doing something horribly wrong.

Turquoise wrote:

I made the example with the understanding that I work for the company -- I don't own or run it.  So, if an executive makes a shitty decision that tanks the company, that's somehow my fault?
Come on Turq, don't you know that these paragons of human evolution here have prepared for every single eventuality in their lives and the ones they haven't prepared for they'll simply wade through like the juggernauts they are? We're in the presence of superior beings here, m'friend. Humans born without a single weakness and no breaking point. There's nothing they can't handle. There's nothing they haven't prepared for. There's a lot we could learn from them. Like how much shit you have to swallow before you're convinced you enjoy the taste.
So you renounced the evil that "kept you in poverty" huh?? Seems to me you finally accepted responsibility for yourself. Which also means "LUCK" had nothing to with it in the first place. You simply decided you had had enough. This I commend.

For some strange reason I think you are proving ole' Neal right.
apollo_fi
The Flying Kalakukko.
+94|6727|The lunar module

Darth_Fleder wrote:

a clueless neocon rant

HunterOfSkulls wrote:

How vomitously arrogant.
Seconded. +1
Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|6859|USA
I need to start claiming I know everything. THen I'd be conservative I suppose.
Jet Blast
Banned
+15|6431

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

I need to start claiming I know everything. THen I'd be conservative I suppose.
Get real.
LaidBackNinja
Pony Slaystation
+343|6906|Charlie One Alpha

Darth_Fleder wrote:

...oh wait, liberals don't believe in God...
This statement alone shows you know jack shit.
"If you want a vision of the future, imagine SecuROM slapping your face with its dick -- forever." -George Orwell
Darth_Fleder
Mod from the Church of the Painful Truth
+533|7003|Orlando, FL - Age 43

Turquoise wrote:

Darth_Fleder wrote:

Don't cry me this poor me 'had to choose between the children and myself who would eat' that's just poor planning on your part which you expect society to cover for you.
Speaking of children... I'm guessing the children of the poor made a bad "choice" of being born into poverty...
No, their parents made the poor choice for them by having children they couldn't afford to have. While everyone has the right to make such choices, no one has the right to expect/demand others to pay for them.

HunterOfSkulls wrote:

Fuck you, Jack.
With such charm it is hard to see how anyone would let you starve.

HunterOfSkulls wrote:

If I had a fucking dime for every shitheel who came at me with this "If you just lived your life like I do, you wouldn't have these problems" bullshit, I could fill a swimming pool with them.
How funny it is that you should try to call me dense, when you have been told the truth so often that you could fill a swimming pool with it.

HunterOfSkulls wrote:

.....What an evil fucking person I am compared to you. How unworthy I am. Oh to one day kneel in your shadow so that I might learn to be worthy.....

...To me, being a man is realizing that I'm not the be-all end-all of how everyone should live, the archetype everyone should model themselves on or that my circumstances are the ones other people should be judged on. How vomitously arrogant. One size does not fucking well fit all...
What a bunch of sheer nonsense. Do you shit in a toilet....or do you go in your pants? You stand there with shit all over your hands and cry that I am trying to make you like me for telling you to use toilet paper.
HunterOfSkulls
Rated EC-10
+246|6477

Darth_Fleder wrote:

What a bunch of sheer nonsense. Do you shit in a toilet....or do you go in your pants? You stand there with shit all over your hands and cry that I am trying to make you like me for telling you to use toilet paper.
While you, apparently, believe your shit doesn't stink.

And I am truly wounded to think that I come across as charmless to you. Maybe it's this whole "no patience for arrogant sods who think they have THE truth when all they have is THEIR truth" thing. I'll spell it out real simple for you and anyone else who's experiencing reading comprehension issues before I finally quit this mess here. Your solutions, however well they work out for you, are not the best solutions for the other few billion-odd people on the planet. Assuming so, even hinting so, is so monumentally arrogant that Ozymandias himself would shake his head in disbelief. I do not blame anyone for my mistakes but myself. I just don't have a whole lot of patience for someone telling me that some bad judgement calls makes me worthless as a human being. I don't expect a handout. I like to work for what I get. I'm one of those sick people who gets a sense of satisfaction at the end of a day I've spent broiling in the sun and getting paint all over myself just by looking at what I've accomplished. I like knowing I earned it. I don't like getting fucked six ways to Sunday by some higher-ups who've decided they can make things more "efficient" by cutting my hours or my benefits while they vote themselves another salary raise. That's why I have to laugh about this whole "Winners drive home in the dark" bit. Once upon a time that might've been true. Nowadays, you might as well say "Lackeys drive home in the dark" or maybe "Suckers drive home in the dark". Rare is the corporation that actually values a work ethic like that; more often than not they'll take your extra labor while trying to figure out how to screw you out of your overtime pay. You're not a sucker for having a work ethic. You're a sucker if you think the people above you actually give a damn. You'd be better off spending that time with your family, or working on your own business instead of grinding yourself away for some suit who can't even get your name right and would probably cut your throat in front of your family if he thought it would get him moved up another rung on the ladder. But we all make our own decisions in the end. Myself, I just try to remember where I came from, what I went through to get here and the people that helped me along the way even if they barely had anything to give. I can live with that. Hope y'all can do the same.

Fin.
paranoid101
Ambitious but Rubbish
+540|6937
Seems like compassion and watch out for your fellow man isn't part of the American dream.
Jet Blast
Banned
+15|6431

paranoid101 wrote:

Seems like compassion and watch out for your fellow man isn't part of the American dream.
Not true.
paranoid101
Ambitious but Rubbish
+540|6937

Jet Blast wrote:

paranoid101 wrote:

Seems like compassion and watch out for your fellow man isn't part of the American dream.
Not true.
Never said it was, this is the impression I am getting from some of the posts here and don't forget this is my personal opinion.
Jet Blast
Banned
+15|6431

paranoid101 wrote:

Jet Blast wrote:

paranoid101 wrote:

Seems like compassion and watch out for your fellow man isn't part of the American dream.
Not true.
Never said it was, this is the impression I am getting from some of the posts here and don't forget this is my personal opinion.
Yes you did.
paranoid101
Ambitious but Rubbish
+540|6937

Jet Blast wrote:

paranoid101 wrote:

Jet Blast wrote:


Not true.
Never said it was, this is the impression I am getting from some of the posts here and don't forget this is my personal opinion.
Yes you did.
Please read the part "seems like"

And do you have a point to prove it wrong other than "Not true"

Its the debate section no the two word answer section.
Jet Blast
Banned
+15|6431

paranoid101 wrote:

Jet Blast wrote:

paranoid101 wrote:

Never said it was, this is the impression I am getting from some of the posts here and don't forget this is my personal opinion.
Yes you did.
Please read the part "seems like"

And do you have a point to prove it wrong other than "Not true"

Its the debate section no the two word answer section.
So you are basing your opinion off the bf2s forums?

Last edited by Jet Blast (2007-04-10 09:10:48)

paranoid101
Ambitious but Rubbish
+540|6937
I'm commenting on what people have posted here.

You have a different opinion then good for you and you and are very much entitled to it, just like everybody else here.

And please the Part "seems like" is the important part on what people have posted.

Last edited by paranoid101 (2007-04-10 09:17:46)

Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6642|The Land of Scott Walker
When the OP was talking about the Mercedes and the million dollar bank account he was merely pointing out how the government measures the poverty level.  It’s by annual income, not how much you already have.  After reading your posts, I think most of you missed that.

Reread this section:
“How does the government pull this one off? Very simple, really. To determine whether or not some poor soul is "living in poverty," the government measures one thing — just one thing. Income. It doesn't matter one bit how much you have, how much you own, how many cars you drive or how big they are, whether or not your pool is heated, whether you winter in Aspen and spend the summers in the Bahamas, or how much is in your savings account. It only matters how much income you claim in that particular year. This means that if you take a one-year leave of absence from your high-paying job and decide to live off the money in your savings and checking accounts while you write the next great American novel, the government says you are 'living in poverty."

See?  Now you people can quit howling. 

I’m not “rich” and probably never will be and I choose not to moan about what someone else has: whether they earned it or had it handed to them on a silver platter.  Complaining isn’t going to result in more deposits into my banking account . . . work does.  Stingray out.
PureFodder
Member
+225|6482
Wow, that guy implies that taking peoples tax money and stuffing it into government research grants is a bad thing.

I can't believe anyone could hate their own country that much.

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