if he has a dick big enough to fuck himself with, at least he has something to be proud of unlike youReciprocity wrote:
you clearly implied that you would shoot someone for burning your flag. so please, go fuck yourself.DBBrinson1 wrote:
On my property -trespassing and stealing? Yea little boy, I think not.Reciprocity wrote:
and then, hopefully, you would go to prison for the rest of your life, because you would be a murderer.
I've often wondered what the reaction in the ME would be like if Americans and other westeners chanted "Death to Islam" "Death to <XXX ME country>" etc in protests...usmarine2007 wrote:
Weird thing is, if a group of Americans got together and burned the Koran, there would be a riot and call for apologies from the arab community. Yet I do not here much from them when our flag is burned.
Trying to compare burning the US flag to burning the Quran, is comparing apples to oranges. It's not the same. Yes the US flag is a symbol of the United States but also take into account the basic tenent of seperation of Church and State that we have in the United States. In the ME, you don't seperate the Church and the State, it's not possible. The Church and the State work in extremely close proximity with each other. So the Quran is not just a symbol of a religion it also is part of the government. In some parts of the ME it's still acceptable to kill an unfaithful wife by stoning. So freedom of speech is probably not going to be exercised with the burning of the Quran to show one's opinion of the government, or the government's policies.
I have worn the flag on my uniform since the age of eighteen. I traded in my camouflage for dark blue and I believe that it is important to protect the freedom of speech. In fact while I'm standing there protecting someones right to free speech, by burning a flag, because someone will get offended and want to put a boot up their @ss. I look and laugh because it's funny to realize that the same person who is burning the flag is relying on someone who is wearing that same symbol on thier uniform to protect their right to burn that flag. I also find it funny that those who burn the flag rarely have worn it, I've asked. One doesn't realize how precious their freedoms are until they don't have them. I'm not talking about being able to chew gum in high school class or say that an authority figure sucks. I know what it is like to not have those freedoms, anyone who has done any military service will agree with me. You only truly appreciate the freedoms that you have, when you've had them taken away.
So go ahead and burn that flag, if you paid for it have at it. All you will have proved to me is that you really don't know what you're doing. When you need protection from someone who doesn't approve of that flag burning then call me. If you get hurt from burning yourself call a paramedic or a fire man/ woman, but look close they're wearing that flag to.
I have worn the flag on my uniform since the age of eighteen. I traded in my camouflage for dark blue and I believe that it is important to protect the freedom of speech. In fact while I'm standing there protecting someones right to free speech, by burning a flag, because someone will get offended and want to put a boot up their @ss. I look and laugh because it's funny to realize that the same person who is burning the flag is relying on someone who is wearing that same symbol on thier uniform to protect their right to burn that flag. I also find it funny that those who burn the flag rarely have worn it, I've asked. One doesn't realize how precious their freedoms are until they don't have them. I'm not talking about being able to chew gum in high school class or say that an authority figure sucks. I know what it is like to not have those freedoms, anyone who has done any military service will agree with me. You only truly appreciate the freedoms that you have, when you've had them taken away.
So go ahead and burn that flag, if you paid for it have at it. All you will have proved to me is that you really don't know what you're doing. When you need protection from someone who doesn't approve of that flag burning then call me. If you get hurt from burning yourself call a paramedic or a fire man/ woman, but look close they're wearing that flag to.
Ya man i agree with ya 100%. It dont' understand why a U.S. CITIZEN would want to burn the flag of united States. All i can say is "ahh man why do that? why burn your flag man? To me i can't even possible think of burning any flag.wileyford wrote:
Trying to compare burning the US flag to burning the Quran, is comparing apples to oranges. It's not the same. Yes the US flag is a symbol of the United States but also take into account the basic tenent of seperation of Church and State that we have in the United States. In the ME, you don't seperate the Church and the State, it's not possible. The Church and the State work in extremely close proximity with each other. So the Quran is not just a symbol of a religion it also is part of the government. In some parts of the ME it's still acceptable to kill an unfaithful wife by stoning. So freedom of speech is probably not going to be exercised with the burning of the Quran to show one's opinion of the government, or the government's policies.
I have worn the flag on my uniform since the age of eighteen. I traded in my camouflage for dark blue and I believe that it is important to protect the freedom of speech. In fact while I'm standing there protecting someones right to free speech, by burning a flag, because someone will get offended and want to put a boot up their @ss. I look and laugh because it's funny to realize that the same person who is burning the flag is relying on someone who is wearing that same symbol on thier uniform to protect their right to burn that flag. I also find it funny that those who burn the flag rarely have worn it, I've asked. One doesn't realize how precious their freedoms are until they don't have them. I'm not talking about being able to chew gum in high school class or say that an authority figure sucks. I know what it is like to not have those freedoms, anyone who has done any military service will agree with me. You only truly appreciate the freedoms that you have, when you've had them taken away.
So go ahead and burn that flag, if you paid for it have at it. All you will have proved to me is that you really don't know what you're doing. When you need protection from someone who doesn't approve of that flag burning then call me. If you get hurt from burning yourself call a paramedic or a fire man/ woman, but look close they're wearing that flag to.
plus i do call many of the founding fathers to be quite religious.
Last edited by agent146 (2007-04-03 00:54:54)
You do know that Judaism has a similair "obsession against Pork" and Hindusim has something similair with Beef.Turquoise wrote:
I'll put it this way... I find America's obsession with a flag just as silly as the Islamic obsession against pork.
Just a side note. I'm not a fan of Islam (far from it) but even I think it's getting out of hand (the forums hatred of the religion). Plus most people don't realise how similair Christianity, Islam and Judaism really is...
Anyway back on topic, burning a flag usually means they hate the country. But if someone is doing it to symbolise freedom then i guess it's ok. But where to draw the line? Does this mean that someone can go out preaching hatred for another race/religion?
A line has to be drawn somewhere.
Last edited by Mekstizzle (2007-04-03 06:58:16)
if you can burn a flag in public want to be able to walk around naked in public
Freedom of speech is a valuable and important thing, it should not be compromised. Sadly there's no accounting for idiots who choose to burn flags or draw stupid cartoons of religious figures. Thankfully freedom of speech allows us to criticise these idiots when they do these things.
In Northern Ireland you often used to see opposing sides burning each others flags on top of bonfires during marching season and so on. I have to say I never really cared as the opinions of the kind of people who did this were so far removed from mine that I just couldn't care less if they had their moment of fun burning my country's flag.
In Northern Ireland you often used to see opposing sides burning each others flags on top of bonfires during marching season and so on. I have to say I never really cared as the opinions of the kind of people who did this were so far removed from mine that I just couldn't care less if they had their moment of fun burning my country's flag.
I think we can make a pretty good guess as to what it would be.....Pubic wrote:
I've often wondered what the reaction in the ME would be like if Americans and other westeners chanted "Death to Islam" "Death to <XXX ME country>" etc in protests...usmarine2007 wrote:
Weird thing is, if a group of Americans got together and burned the Koran, there would be a riot and call for apologies from the arab community. Yet I do not here much from them when our flag is burned.
One, eagles aren't manufactured by the thousands in Chinese factories.DBBrinson1 wrote:
I see the flag as a protected national icon (like the Bald Eagle) you don't.
Two, if you're going to kill someone over ten bucks worth of cloth, you've got fucking issues.
Three, if you're just talking shit about killing someone over ten bucks worth of cloth and have no intention of doing it, you've still got fucking issues.
Whether it's fundamentalist muslims getting all bent about cartoons of Mohammed (which was doubly stupid of them because it seems like the cartoons were calculated to get just that reaction) or Americans getting all bent about someone torching some fabric, I just don't fucking get it. It's a symbol of an idea. The symbol can be destroyed but as long as the idea survives it can be recreated. Maybe some folks should worry more about protecting the idea instead of some piece of fabric it inspired.
He's not saying he's gonna kill for 10 bucks worth of cloth, but a flag represents a nation, a nation which has ideologies, which those ideologies that DBBrinson1 follows. It's not about the flag, it's about disgracing an entire nation and showing your hate for that country.HunterOfSkulls wrote:
One, eagles aren't manufactured by the thousands in Chinese factories.DBBrinson1 wrote:
I see the flag as a protected national icon (like the Bald Eagle) you don't.
Two, if you're going to kill someone over ten bucks worth of cloth, you've got fucking issues.
Three, if you're just talking shit about killing someone over ten bucks worth of cloth and have no intention of doing it, you've still got fucking issues.
Whether it's fundamentalist muslims getting all bent about cartoons of Mohammed (which was doubly stupid of them because it seems like the cartoons were calculated to get just that reaction) or Americans getting all bent about someone torching some fabric, I just don't fucking get it. It's a symbol of an idea. The symbol can be destroyed but as long as the idea survives it can be recreated. Maybe some folks should worry more about protecting the idea instead of some piece of fabric it inspired.
For me it's more then that. My grandfather was buried under that flag as well as thousands of other U.S. Servicemen and women. When I see people disrepect that flag I get mad, but I don't lose it. Free Speech is a civil liberty in the U.S. and I am very happy we have it. Without it well, we wouldn't be who we are. I'm a self-proclaimed conservative but I support free speech, freedom of religion, seperation of church and state, basically freedoms to do things as you please. So when I see something like that I remember that is the reason why I fight to protect this country, as ironic as it, and as much as I disagree with it I still have to remember that is why the U.S. is the most free country in the world.
Doesn't mean I respect people for doing things I don't agree with or saying things I think are stupid, but I'm not going to go beat the crap out of them for it or call the secret police on them.
Doesn't mean I respect people for doing things I don't agree with or saying things I think are stupid, but I'm not going to go beat the crap out of them for it or call the secret police on them.
No, actually if you read back a few, he says if someone took his flag down and burned it, he would kill them. Nothing about the nation, nothing about ideology, just smoking someone for petty theft and vandalism.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
He's not saying he's gonna kill for 10 bucks worth of cloth, but a flag represents a nation, a nation which has ideologies, which those ideologies that DBBrinson1 follows. It's not about the flag, it's about disgracing an entire nation and showing your hate for that country.
Besides, you think burning a piece of cloth disgraces an entire nation? We've got corporations making bank off the death and injury of our soldiers, wounded soldiers who should be treated with respect being left in filthy hospital wards to rot, politicians from both sides of the aisle playing "It's not my fault, it's your fault" over this whole mess and you think a burning piece of fucking cloth is a disgrace to this nation? And what, you think people are going to hate America out of existance? Christ on toast, people, is America that weak to you? The ideas of freedom and liberty are fucking bulletproof; they only die if people let them die. You can't kill it with fire, you can't kill it with unfocused hate. It dies through neglect. Which is exactly what I see happening.
Nice to see at least someone takes their oath seriously these days. Thank you.Ridir wrote:
For me it's more then that. My grandfather was buried under that flag as well as thousands of other U.S. Servicemen and women. When I see people disrepect that flag I get mad, but I don't lose it. Free Speech is a civil liberty in the U.S. and I am very happy we have it. Without it well, we wouldn't be who we are. I'm a self-proclaimed conservative but I support free speech, freedom of religion, seperation of church and state, basically freedoms to do things as you please. So when I see something like that I remember that is the reason why I fight to protect this country, as ironic as it, and as much as I disagree with it I still have to remember that is why the U.S. is the most free country in the world.
Doesn't mean I respect people for doing things I don't agree with or saying things I think are stupid, but I'm not going to go beat the crap out of them for it or call the secret police on them.
Wel heres how isee it. if ur burning an american flag, you do not fall under those that should be protected by the constituion. therefore u would be penalized harshly.
Unfortunately for you, your opinion does not trump the Constitution nor are you in any position to interpret or amend Constitutional law. Also unfortunately for you, there are laws against assault. Additionally unfortunate for you, I doubt anyone in the prison that would be housing your sorry carcass while you served out your sentence would be very impressed with what a badass you think you are.norge wrote:
Wel heres how isee it. if ur burning an american flag, you do not fall under those that should be protected by the constituion. therefore u would be penalized harshly.
I suppose you also fall into the category that the bible only applies to decent white folk. As I have read and re-read the constitution, the rights as outlined in the Bill of Rights apply to everyone under US dominion. Citizens, illegals...everyone. Abu Gonzales has tried to re-interpret this, but it is there in very plain English in black and white.norge wrote:
Wel heres how isee it. if ur burning an american flag, you do not fall under those that should be protected by the constituion. therefore u would be penalized harshly.
Summed up by Supreme Court Justice William J. Brennan, Jr. in the 1989 decision "if there is a bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment, it is that government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea offensive or disagreeable."
It's also binding via international law, of which the US is a founding signatory.
The only thing I can see being wrong is if he violated the local fire safety codes in place in the location he chose to do his burning.Freedom of speech is granted unambiguous protection in international law by the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights which is binding on around 150 nations. Article 19 provides that:
1. Everyone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference.
2. Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice.
3. The exercise of the rights provided for in paragraph 2 of this article carries with it special duties and responsibilities. It may therefore be subject to certain restrictions, but these shall only be such as are provided by law and are necessary:
(a) For respect of the rights or reputations of others;
(b) For the protection of national security or of public order (ordre public), or of public health or morals.
As far as I can tell, this is another non-issue conservative politicians like to trot out whenever they need a distraction, much like the abortion, school prayer, and gay union issues. It gets their bloodthirsty base riled up pretty well and to the polls, or at least makes it look like they're doing something else besides lining the pockets of their buddies in various industries with American tax dollars.
Flag burning (of the US flag) by US citizens stumps me. Those who do it are exercising their right to free speech to burn something that (among other things) represents free speech. Of course there shouldn't be laws of not doing anything like that (which would chink away at free speech), but every US citizen should not do it because it presents a philosophical paradox that nullifies any point they may have been trying to prove with the sheer stupidity of their action.
It's like driving a nail through your own foot, or immolating a tree to prevent lumberjacks from going to work at it.
It's like driving a nail through your own foot, or immolating a tree to prevent lumberjacks from going to work at it.
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2007-04-04 01:49:01)
That first part, I think, is where the contention lies. The flag means different things to different people, and they're all Americans. Oh, I know what you're supposed to think of the flag, but since when does reverence for a material object supersede the principle behind that object? Would burning a copy of the Constitution in the same manner, the actual contract that guarantees our rights, elicit the same response?unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Flag burning (of the US flag) by US citizens stumps me. Those who do it are exercising their right to free speech to burn something that (among other things) represents free speech. Of course there shouldn't be laws of not doing anything like that (which would chink away at free speech), but every US citizen should not do it because it presents a philosophical paradox that nullifies any point they may have been trying to prove with the sheer stupidity of their action.
It's like driving a nail through your own foot, or immolating a tree to prevent lumberjacks from going to work at it.
Idolatry, though forbidden by the same bible that those red-blooded applie-pie sucking rednecks like to think they're quoting from, is now common practice. You're not a good Christian unless you're wearing a cross (fuck what the bible actually says), you're not a good American unless you're worshipping a flag, blah blah blah. We openly sport T-shirt logos, bumper stickers, brand decals, and religious symbols as an end unto itself. Some let these things define who they are, fuck the ideas behind them. "I'm waving a plastic flag, I'm a good American!", "I have a nice cross around my neck, I'm a good Christian", "I have a dixie flag tattooed on my ass, I'm a rebel!" "I have pictures of my kids on my desk, I'm a good parent."
We're all guilty of a little idolatry now and again, everyone likes colors and shiny things. But, as a proud American that has worn the flag on his right sleeve through 2 wars (sorry, "conflicts"), and then watched my country quickly go to hell in the last 6 years, I would say that burning anything with a "Made in China" sticker would be positively patriotic.
The laws against idolatry as expressed by some religions are taken a bit literally by some. I respect my pets, a good economy and (in most cases) the right to life, but does that mean I worship these? No, and I don't worship the flag in my front yard, either. I have an old picture of myself in an AFJROTC uniform but does that mean I joined the Air Force? No. The fact is that destroying an object that represents many things is still a goofy way of expressing malcontent at a few things. How about this: would it make sense for someone to burn computers to protest against thumb screws?GorillaTicTacs wrote:
That first part, I think, is where the contention lies. The flag means different things to different people, and they're all Americans. Oh, I know what you're supposed to think of the flag, but since when does reverence for a material object supersede the principle behind that object? Would burning a copy of the Constitution in the same manner, the actual contract that guarantees our rights, elicit the same response?unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Flag burning (of the US flag) by US citizens stumps me. Those who do it are exercising their right to free speech to burn something that (among other things) represents free speech. Of course there shouldn't be laws of not doing anything like that (which would chink away at free speech), but every US citizen should not do it because it presents a philosophical paradox that nullifies any point they may have been trying to prove with the sheer stupidity of their action.
It's like driving a nail through your own foot, or immolating a tree to prevent lumberjacks from going to work at it.
Idolatry, though forbidden by the same bible that those red-blooded applie-pie sucking rednecks like to think they're quoting from, is now common practice. You're not a good Christian unless you're wearing a cross (fuck what the bible actually says), you're not a good American unless you're worshipping a flag, blah blah blah. We openly sport T-shirt logos, bumper stickers, brand decals, and religious symbols as an end unto itself. Some let these things define who they are, fuck the ideas behind them. "I'm waving a plastic flag, I'm a good American!", "I have a nice cross around my neck, I'm a good Christian", "I have a dixie flag tattooed on my ass, I'm a rebel!" "I have pictures of my kids on my desk, I'm a good parent."
We're all guilty of a little idolatry now and again, everyone likes colors and shiny things. But, as a proud American that has worn the flag on his right sleeve through 2 wars (sorry, "conflicts"), and then watched my country quickly go to hell in the last 6 years, I would say that burning anything with a "Made in China" sticker would be positively patriotic.
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2007-04-04 02:58:45)
For me nothing at all whatseover should come in the way of freedom of speech, the only exception being when it harms others. Burning a flag harms no-one. If someone wants to burn a flag let them.
Burn the mother fuckers. Nationalities are products of national awareness and nothing more.
ƒ³
Yeah, its nothing like completely leveling a country because you had a tiff with its dictator...sorry, couldn't resist the cheap shot.The fact is that destroying an object that represents many things is still a goofy way of expressing malcontent at a few things...
The 10-penny shot is that it is still an opinion. Opinions can and should be expressed freely in a free society, no matter how unpopular. Expression can take many means from artworks, to film, to writing on an internet forum, to standing in a public place and burning a piece of property you legally gathered or purchased in a safe manner. You don't have to agree, you can keep your mouth shut, or disagree even, loudly, in a manner that doesn't incur harm on any living person or damage their property. Opinions themselves harm no one, sticks and stones and all that.
Let it go, its a non-starter until this country becomes a nazi police state...THEN you can put on your brown shirt and go hunt down the flag burning commies.
Penn & Teller! Nicely done. Better the flag than my house but I still don't want to see it done, the ideals that it should represent is why I hold it so dear. Then again from a capitalist view we should want them to continue flag burning at an increased rate so we can sell them more flags .
Many freedoms are being attacked these days.
Many freedoms are being attacked these days.
Thank you, HunterOfSkulls... I agree 100%.HunterOfSkulls wrote:
One, eagles aren't manufactured by the thousands in Chinese factories.DBBrinson1 wrote:
I see the flag as a protected national icon (like the Bald Eagle) you don't.
Two, if you're going to kill someone over ten bucks worth of cloth, you've got fucking issues.
Three, if you're just talking shit about killing someone over ten bucks worth of cloth and have no intention of doing it, you've still got fucking issues.
Whether it's fundamentalist muslims getting all bent about cartoons of Mohammed (which was doubly stupid of them because it seems like the cartoons were calculated to get just that reaction) or Americans getting all bent about someone torching some fabric, I just don't fucking get it. It's a symbol of an idea. The symbol can be destroyed but as long as the idea survives it can be recreated. Maybe some folks should worry more about protecting the idea instead of some piece of fabric it inspired.
The only way to retire a US flag properly is to burn it.