righthandfork
Member
+8|6664
DARWINIST:  How do you know God created life?

CREATIONIST:  I don’t, I believe because I have faith.  How do you know evolution is true?

DARWINIST:  Because there is so much physical proof that it shouldn’t even be considered a theory anymore, it’s a fact.

CREATIONIST:  You mean like advances in DNA research?

DARWINIST:  DNA research supports evolution, but it isn’t considered proof all by itself because it is still dependent on a theoretical framework to make sense of the data.  In other words, no matter how hard a biologist looks at genetic code, he can’t see the past—only mutations.  But by using Darwin’s principle that life evolved from a single germ, a biologist can then compare the differences in DNA and figure out how far back on the evolution tree they go, or where two species branched.  But the concrete evidence is not found in a lab, it is found in the earth itself.  For example, we have an excellent fossil record for Perissodactyls, like the horse, zebra, and rhinoceros.  Same thing for Elephants.

CREATIONIST:  Uninterrupted since the Paleocene period?

DARWINIST:  Well, between early Oligocene and early Miocene, there are several million years with no Perissodactyl fossils at all, but that just means we haven’t found them yet.

CREATIONIST:  But they’re out there?

DARWINIST: Of course. 

CREATIONIST:  How can you be sure?

DARWINIST: It’s just common sense.  We have a fossil record that shows other animals evolved, the elephant isn’t any different.

CREATIONIST:  So evolution is a commonsensical theory?  I always thought of it as purely analytical. 

DARWINIST: It is analytical, but the process of fossilization is too haphazard to make a full analysis possible.  Even the very recent Pleistocene period which has the best fossil record of all, is still missing species-to-species transitional fossils for 80-90% of modern mammals.  So we have to take what evidence is available and use common sense conjectures for the rest.

CREATIONIST:  Kind of like observing the perfect order in the universe and concluding an intelligent being must have created it?

DARWINIST: No that’s speculation.  I’m talking about using concrete evidence.

CREATIONIST:  The periodic table, the earth’s orbit around the sun—that’s not physical evidence?

DARWINIST: Yes, but the conclusions you are drawing are wrong.     

CREATIONIST:  What about bats?

DARWINIST: The first known fossil was already a fully flying animals and very similar to modern bats.  In fact, there are no bat fossils from the entire Paleocene period. 

CREATIONIST:  But you believe bats had un-winged ancestors even though there is no physical proof?

DARWINIST: Of course, for the reasons I already stated.

CREATIONIST:  When you believe something exists even though you’ve never actually seen it, isn’t that called faith?

DARWINIST: No, it’s called common sense.  Why would Perissodactyls evolve and not Chiropterans?

CREATIONIST:  I never said your reasoning was flawed, just that it sounds a lot like Paul’s definition of faith, “Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.”

DARWINIST: Scientists don’t have faith, we base our knowledge on facts.

CREATIONIST:  What about guinea pigs and cavies?  I heard they appeared out of nowhere in their modern forms during the late Oligocene period.

DARWINIST:  For the last time, just because I can’t prove that cavies evolved from a common rodent ancestor doesn’t mean that they didn’t!

CREATIONIST:  Sounds a lot like faith to me:)


DISCLAIMER!!!  This is not an attempt to disprove evolution.  It may very well be true.  The point, in case you missed it, is that the majority of what we believe is based on the principle of faith.  I am not talking about blind faith, I am talking about faith as a product of reason.  The reasoning goes that all experiments can be duplicated in a laboratory setting, so if you really wanted to prove everything in a science text book you could.  But in reality, students only perform a fraction of these experiments, for all the rest, they have faith in the testimony of other scientists.  Hence, the majority of all our knowledge is faith-based.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7106|Canberra, AUS

righthandfork wrote:

DARWINIST:  How do you know God created life?

CREATIONIST:  I don’t, I believe because I have faith.  How do you know evolution is true?

DARWINIST:  Because there is so much physical proof that it shouldn’t even be considered a theory anymore, it’s a fact.

CREATIONIST:  You mean like advances in DNA research?

DARWINIST:  DNA research supports evolution, but it isn’t considered proof all by itself because it is still dependent on a theoretical framework to make sense of the data.  In other words, no matter how hard a biologist looks at genetic code, he can’t see the past—only mutations.  But by using Darwin’s principle that life evolved from a single germ, a biologist can then compare the differences in DNA and figure out how far back on the evolution tree they go, or where two species branched.  But the concrete evidence is not found in a lab, it is found in the earth itself.  For example, we have an excellent fossil record for Perissodactyls, like the horse, zebra, and rhinoceros.  Same thing for Elephants.

CREATIONIST:  Uninterrupted since the Paleocene period?

DARWINIST:  Well, between early Oligocene and early Miocene, there are several million years with no Perissodactyl fossils at all, but that just means we haven’t found them yet.

CREATIONIST:  But they’re out there?

DARWINIST: Of course. 

CREATIONIST:  How can you be sure?

DARWINIST: It’s just common sense.  We have a fossil record that shows other animals evolved, the elephant isn’t any different.

CREATIONIST:  So evolution is a commonsensical theory?  I always thought of it as purely analytical. 

DARWINIST: It is analytical, but the process of fossilization is too haphazard to make a full analysis possible.  Even the very recent Pleistocene period which has the best fossil record of all, is still missing species-to-species transitional fossils for 80-90% of modern mammals.  So we have to take what evidence is available and use common sense conjectures for the rest.

CREATIONIST:  Kind of like observing the perfect order in the universe and concluding an intelligent being must have created it?

DARWINIST: No that’s speculation.  I’m talking about using concrete evidence.

CREATIONIST:  The periodic table, the earth’s orbit around the sun—that’s not physical evidence?

DARWINIST: Yes, but the conclusions you are drawing are wrong.     

CREATIONIST:  What about bats?

DARWINIST: The first known fossil was already a fully flying animals and very similar to modern bats.  In fact, there are no bat fossils from the entire Paleocene period. 

CREATIONIST:  But you believe bats had un-winged ancestors even though there is no physical proof?

DARWINIST: Of course, for the reasons I already stated.

CREATIONIST:  When you believe something exists even though you’ve never actually seen it, isn’t that called faith?

DARWINIST: No, it’s called common sense.  Why would Perissodactyls evolve and not Chiropterans?

CREATIONIST:  I never said your reasoning was flawed, just that it sounds a lot like Paul’s definition of faith, “Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.”

DARWINIST: Scientists don’t have faith, we base our knowledge on facts.

CREATIONIST:  What about guinea pigs and cavies?  I heard they appeared out of nowhere in their modern forms during the late Oligocene period.

DARWINIST:  For the last time, just because I can’t prove that cavies evolved from a common rodent ancestor doesn’t mean that they didn’t!

CREATIONIST:  Sounds a lot like faith to me:)


DISCLAIMER!!!  This is not an attempt to disprove evolution.  It may very well be true.  The point, in case you missed it, is that the majority of what we believe is based on the principle of faith.  I am not talking about blind faith, I am talking about faith as a product of reason.  The reasoning goes that all experiments can be duplicated in a laboratory setting, so if you really wanted to prove everything in a science text book you could.  But in reality, students only perform a fraction of these experiments, for all the rest, they have faith in the testimony of other scientists.  Hence, the majority of all our knowledge is faith-based.
That actually is an excellent demonstration of faith. Well done.

But you are cherry picking examples.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
mikeyb118
Evil Overlord
+76|7030|S.C.
OK i think we all understand your angle now. I for one am growing tired of your recycled rhetoric.
topal63
. . .
+533|7150
No, Evolution is not based upon FAITH.

The FACT is MOST people neither contemplate:
1.) God as a transcendent creator abstraction - and what that is / or is not / as a complexity of abstraction in a philosophically reasoned (& sophisticated) manner.
2.) The same is true of science in general, including the FACT of evolution.

And that said lack of interest and thought, can be generalized (accurately) and extended to quantum mechanics, advanced calculus, chemistry, etc, or many other complex things/principles/disciplines.

Taking things on faith does not alter the reality of a medical doctors ability and his REAL knowledge and skill, irregardless of your ignorance of his skill, yet your "FAITH" in it (his skill and REAL practical knowledge).

JUST because you have "faith" in something does not alter the reality of another KNOWING the very same thing you DO NOT and thus (an-other) does NOT NEED TO HAVE "FAITH," when one (an-other) has knowledge instead.

Last edited by topal63 (2007-04-07 00:37:01)

righthandfork
Member
+8|6664

topal63 wrote:

No, Evolution is not based upon FAITH.

The FACT is MOST people neither contemplate:
1.) God as a transcendent creator abstraction - and what that is / or is not / as a complexity of abstraction in a philosophically reasoned (& sophisticated) manner.
2.) The same is true of science in general, including the FACT of evolution.

And that said lack of interest and thought, can be generalized (accurately) and extended to quantum mechanics, advanced calculus, chemistry, etc, or many other complex things/principles/disciplines.

Taking things on faith does not alter the reality of a medical doctors ability and his REAL knowledge and skill, irregardless of your ignorance of his skill, yet your "FAITH" in it. (his skill and REAL practical knowledge).

JUST because you have "faith" in something does not alter the reality of another KNOWING the very same thing you DO NOT and thus does NOT NEED TO HAVE "FAITH," when it has knowledge instead.
I never said faith-based knowledge wasn't real.  It works very well in fact.

Last edited by righthandfork (2007-04-07 00:37:27)

topal63
. . .
+533|7150

righthandfork wrote:

topal63 wrote:

No, Evolution is not based upon FAITH.

The FACT is MOST people neither contemplate:
1.) God as a transcendent creator abstraction - and what that is / or is not / as a complexity of abstraction in a philosophically reasoned (& sophisticated) manner.
2.) The same is true of science in general, including the FACT of evolution.

And that said lack of interest and thought, can be generalized (accurately) and extended to quantum mechanics, advanced calculus, chemistry, etc, or many other complex things/principles/disciplines.

Taking things on faith does not alter the reality of a medical doctors ability and his REAL knowledge and skill, irregardless of your ignorance of his skill, yet your "FAITH" in it. (his skill and REAL practical knowledge).

JUST because you have "faith" in something does not alter the reality of another KNOWING the very same thing you DO NOT and thus does NOT NEED TO HAVE "FAITH," when it has knowledge instead.
I never said faith-based knowledge wasn't real.  In works very well in fact.
It is NOT knowledge... get it. (Faith IS NOT KNOWLEDGE) it is a form of TRUST.

The doctor is an example:
He has practical knowledge.
You do NOT, you have trust.

Last edited by topal63 (2007-04-07 00:45:07)

TrollmeaT
Aspiring Objectivist
+492|7104|Colorado
Please spare us your views forkboy. Faith a product of reason? geeze.
righthandfork
Member
+8|6664

topal63 wrote:

righthandfork wrote:

topal63 wrote:

No, Evolution is not based upon FAITH.

The FACT is MOST people neither contemplate:
1.) God as a transcendent creator abstraction - and what that is / or is not / as a complexity of abstraction in a philosophically reasoned (& sophisticated) manner.
2.) The same is true of science in general, including the FACT of evolution.

And that said lack of interest and thought, can be generalized (accurately) and extended to quantum mechanics, advanced calculus, chemistry, etc, or many other complex things/principles/disciplines.

Taking things on faith does not alter the reality of a medical doctors ability and his REAL knowledge and skill, irregardless of your ignorance of his skill, yet your "FAITH" in it. (his skill and REAL practical knowledge).

JUST because you have "faith" in something does not alter the reality of another KNOWING the very same thing you DO NOT and thus does NOT NEED TO HAVE "FAITH," when it has knowledge instead.
I never said faith-based knowledge wasn't real.  In works very well in fact.
It is NOT knowledge... get it. (Faith IS NOT KNOWLEDGE) it is a form of TRUST.
Let me put it this way so can see the relationship between knowledge and faith.  Knowledge is a belief in something that is true.  Such knowledge is derived from evidence.  Evidence comes from three main sources: our senses, deductive reasoning, and the testimony of credible witnesses.  The degree to which the evidence is considered proof, depends a great deal on the nature of the evidence, or under which of the three categories the truth falls.  While proof is the convincing ability of an assertion, it does not, by itself, have any direct effect on its truthfulness.  That is to say, an assertion remains true or false, independent of the proof involved.  When we believe something to be true because of our confidence in the credibility of a witness, then our knowledge is said to be Faith-based.  While this type of knowledge may be the hardest to “prove,” that does not infer that it is inferior to the other types.
topal63
. . .
+533|7150

righthandfork wrote:

topal63 wrote:

righthandfork wrote:

I never said faith-based knowledge wasn't real.  In works very well in fact.
It is NOT knowledge... get it. (Faith IS NOT KNOWLEDGE) it is a form of TRUST.
Let me put it this way so can see the relationship between knowledge and faith.  Knowledge is a belief in something that is true.  Such knowledge is derived from evidence.  Evidence comes from three main sources: our senses, deductive reasoning, and the testimony of credible witnesses.  The degree to which the evidence is considered proof, depends a great deal on the nature of the evidence, or under which of the three categories the truth falls.  While proof is the convincing ability of an assertion, it does not, by itself, have any direct effect on its truthfulness.  That is to say, an assertion remains true or false, independent of the proof involved.  When we believe something to be true because of our confidence in the credibility of a witness, then our knowledge is said to be Faith-based.  While this type of knowledge may be the hardest to “prove,” that does not infer that it is inferior to the other types.
Let me put it this way and simply for you: WRONG.

Knowledge is not belief in anything. It is merely a collection of information stored as patterns in your brain (or for more accurate and detailed knowledge it is stored in an outside database, or book).

In terms of a personal knowledge-base this might be sometimes: generally TRUE, but often it is also a collection of misconceptions and is in FACT: FALSE.

Your personal knowledge base could easily contain more falsehoods than truths. Or vice versa.

There is a relationship though - of faith to knowledge. Pure faith is the absence of knowledge (any experience, abstract constructs, direct or indirect experience, generalizations of induction, etc). The less knowledge the more absurd the claim the greater the "leap" of faith is.

Note:
Your conceptions of epistemology seems to me to be based upon outmoded erroneous forms or philosophies.

Last edited by topal63 (2007-04-07 23:38:03)

djphetal
Go Ducks.
+346|6767|Oregon
Great post.
I'm still a firm believer in evolution, but this is really true.
There are parts of evolution that we have to accept as being "possible" and "making sense" when there's no direct proof...

same as religion.
topal63
. . .
+533|7150

djphetal wrote:

Great post.
I'm still a firm believer in evolution, but this is really true.
There are parts of evolution that we have to accept as being "possible" and "making sense" when there's no direct proof...

same as religion.
No it is not: the same as religion.

Unlike religion, there are detailed BOOKS you have not read yet - that CAN STRIP away the ignorance you posess (maybe you are doing that right now - in your life -  increaseing your knowledge and thus replacing faith in: biochemistry, evolution, etc, with the actual knowledge of it instead).

De facto, as a child, we all are born in utter ignorance. De facto, in ignorance, we can only have faith.

Last edited by topal63 (2007-04-07 01:07:37)

Reciprocity
Member
+721|7012|the dank(super) side of Oregon
and the earth is only six thousand years old.  and jesus created dinosaur bones to  test the faith of man.  it's so goddamned simple.
topal63
. . .
+533|7150

Reciprocity wrote:

and the earth is only six thousand years old.  and jesus created dinosaur bones to  test the faith of man.  it's so goddamned simple.
No he seems ernest... in his attempt to suggest his (false &) unmodern view of epistemology.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7106|Canberra, AUS

topal63 wrote:

righthandfork wrote:

topal63 wrote:


It is NOT knowledge... get it. (Faith IS NOT KNOWLEDGE) it is a form of TRUST.
Let me put it this way so can see the relationship between knowledge and faith.  Knowledge is a belief in something that is true.  Such knowledge is derived from evidence.  Evidence comes from three main sources: our senses, deductive reasoning, and the testimony of credible witnesses.  The degree to which the evidence is considered proof, depends a great deal on the nature of the evidence, or under which of the three categories the truth falls.  While proof is the convincing ability of an assertion, it does not, by itself, have any direct effect on its truthfulness.  That is to say, an assertion remains true or false, independent of the proof involved.  When we believe something to be true because of our confidence in the credibility of a witness, then our knowledge is said to be Faith-based.  While this type of knowledge may be the hardest to “prove,” that does not infer that it is inferior to the other types.
Let me put it this way and simply for you: WRONG.

Knowledge is not belief in anything. It is merely a collection of information stored as patterns in your brain (or for more accurate and detailed knowledge it is stored in an outside database, or book).

In terms of a personal knowledge-base this might be sometimes: generally TRUE, but often it is also a collection of misconceptions and is in FACT: FALSE.

Your knowledge base could easily contain more falsehoods than truths. Or vice versa.

There is a relationship though - of faith to knowledge. Pure faith is the absence of knowledge (any experience, abstract constructs, direct or indirect experience, generalizations of induction, etc). The less knowledge the more absurd the claim the greater the "leap" of faith is.

Note:
You conceptions of epistemology seem to me to based upon outmoded erroneous forms or philosophies.
I don't want to get into an epistemology/logic debate with you (as you clearly know more than me), but isn't it true that scientific methods are also based on faith - faith that your observations are correct?
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
topal63
. . .
+533|7150

Spark wrote:

topal63 wrote:

righthandfork wrote:

Let me put it this way so can see the relationship between knowledge and faith.  Knowledge is a belief in something that is true.  Such knowledge is derived from evidence.  Evidence comes from three main sources: our senses, deductive reasoning, and the testimony of credible witnesses.  The degree to which the evidence is considered proof, depends a great deal on the nature of the evidence, or under which of the three categories the truth falls.  While proof is the convincing ability of an assertion, it does not, by itself, have any direct effect on its truthfulness.  That is to say, an assertion remains true or false, independent of the proof involved.  When we believe something to be true because of our confidence in the credibility of a witness, then our knowledge is said to be Faith-based.  While this type of knowledge may be the hardest to “prove,” that does not infer that it is inferior to the other types.
Let me put it this way and simply for you: WRONG.

Knowledge is not belief in anything. It is merely a collection of information stored as patterns in your brain (or for more accurate and detailed knowledge it is stored in an outside database, or book).

In terms of a personal knowledge-base this might be sometimes: generally TRUE, but often it is also a collection of misconceptions and is in FACT: FALSE.

Your knowledge base could easily contain more falsehoods than truths. Or vice versa.

There is a relationship though - of faith to knowledge. Pure faith is the absence of knowledge (any experience, abstract constructs, direct or indirect experience, generalizations of induction, etc). The less knowledge the more absurd the claim the greater the "leap" of faith is.

Note:
You conceptions of epistemology seem to me to based upon outmoded erroneous forms or philosophies.
I don't want to get into an epistemology/logic debate with you (as you clearly know more than me), but isn't it true that scientific methods are also based on faith - ***faith that your observations are correct?
It is matter of muddling the issue... by errantly mixing the shades of meaning indicated by words (labels are metaphoric circular constructs). Words are simply being misused here (by him); a detailed response would be utterly dull.

Belief, faith, trust, generally accepted, etc - as operational terms they are more or less the same... but what is being suggested is that the different shades of meaning (contained in logical, or syntax use here) are one and the same and are interchangeable - they are NOT.

***Certainty is not implied by science - nor is perfect knowing, BUT...

... faith as a shade of meaning as in: "I have faith in God."
Is not interchangeable with: "I have faith that the sun will rise in the east tomorrow."

These are not equivalents ever.

The poorest weakest (erroneous) philosophical arguments - usually can be shown to be the misuse of language. The construction of arguments that obfuscate rather than clarify. They often are exercises in sophistry that hide behind the muddling of words (shades of syntax-semantic meaning that are not actually interchangeable).

Last edited by topal63 (2007-04-07 02:33:23)

Reciprocity
Member
+721|7012|the dank(super) side of Oregon

Spark wrote:

I don't want to get into an epistemology/logic debate with you (as you clearly know more than me), but isn't it true that scientific methods are also based on faith - faith that your observations are correct?
you don't necessarily have faith that an observation is correct  unless your suggesting that reality is purely perception and perspective.  then the universe is absolutely relative to absolutely every single individual, then yes, it would require faith to believe in something like evolution, or the shape of the earth, or the color green.   the phrase to the best of one's knowledge and the word or concept of faith are not interchangeable.  saying that you have faith in the existence of gravity is stupid.  saying that to the best of your knowledge God exists is stupid.  you can have facts and evidence, proof and verification, but you cant have faith at the same time.  you can faith but you cannot have facts or proof at the same time.

Last edited by Reciprocity (2007-04-07 01:49:22)

BVC
Member
+325|7127
The author of that "conversation" is operating under the assumption (or perhaps making the accusation?) that darwinists/evolutionists are devoid of all forms of faith, not just faith in it's christian form, when clearly this isn't the case.

eg. If I hurt myself I have faith that my doctor will fix me up.

Its a clevely written piece of propaganda, nothing more.  Next, please.

Last edited by Pubic (2007-04-07 03:53:46)

Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7106|Canberra, AUS
Since this has turned into an epistemology debate, can someone give me a reasonable explanation (topal preferably) on the difference between, TO KNOW (NOT the classical JTB definition),  TO THINK, TO BELIEVE and TO HAVE AN OPINION ON.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,072|7203|PNW

I'm the type of personality who throws support behind both ideas. I believe that a deity could have had a hand in the process of creation, and I also believe that the Earth is about as old as science believes.

Creationists: Is it too hard to imagine that an eternal being could address billions of years as a short period of time, and that ancient tomes such as the Bible couldn't possibly store the infinite wisdom of God?

Darwinists: Is it difficult to assume that an advanced enough science is capable of creating life? We can clone sheep and grow legs out of fruit-fly heads, but we haven't even sent a manned mission to Mars yet.
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7198|Cambridge (UK)
I hate to agree with the forkster in any way what so ever, but Science is faith based.

In some sense of the word 'faith'.

Ultimately there are things we can not prove and therefore we must say "based upon all the evidence collected so far we can say that such-and-such is most probably true to within such a narrow margin of doubt that we are happy to think of such-and-such as a 'truth'".

However we can never neither prove nor disprove anything beyond all doubt.

Therefor, no matter how small, some degree of 'faith' is required.

Last edited by Scorpion0x17 (2007-04-07 03:44:38)

TrollmeaT
Aspiring Objectivist
+492|7104|Colorado
Lets all turn words into what we want them to be ffs.
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7198|Cambridge (UK)
'faith' as in:

dictionary.com wrote:

faith      /feɪθ/ [feyth] –noun
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability. 
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Oh, and you can not prove me wrong. And I can not prove me right. Thus proving my point.

Last edited by Scorpion0x17 (2007-04-07 03:58:32)

PureFodder
Member
+225|6717
Faith is belief in something that cannot be proved. As scientific experiments can be repeated, science is not faith based, it is trust based. Plus most of science is based on predictions from previous experiments. By showing your experiment works you've proved that all the science that your work is based on also works.

You believe that the sun will rise tomorrow, and tomorrow you will know if that belief was correct. You'll never know if your faith was correct.

What's the difference between faith and scientific reasoning? Faith doesn't look for answers, doesn't look for evidence and refuses to challenge past assumptions.
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7198|Cambridge (UK)

PureFodder wrote:

You believe that the sun will rise tomorrow, and tomorrow you will know if that belief was correct. You'll never know if your faith was correct.
But you do not know before it has risen that it will definately rise again tommorrow.

We believe that it will rise again tommorrow because we believe that the earth is in orbit around the sun.

We believe the earth is in orbit around sun because we believe that gravity pulls all bodies towards each other.

We have not even proved that gravity actually exists.

But we keep experiencing something like gravity, therefor we assume that gravity exists.

i.e. we have faith in gravity.
PureFodder
Member
+225|6717

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

You believe that the sun will rise tomorrow, and tomorrow you will know if that belief was correct. You'll never know if your faith was correct.
But you do not know before it has risen that it will definately rise again tommorrow.

We believe that it will rise again tommorrow because we believe that the earth is in orbit around the sun.

We believe the earth is in orbit around sun because we believe that gravity pulls all bodies towards each other.

We have not even proved that gravity actually exists.

But we keep experiencing something like gravity, therefor we assume that gravity exists.

i.e. we have faith in gravity.
NO. We believe in gravity because we have evidence for it. People have faith in God because they have none.

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