Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|6767|Cambridge (UK)

righthandfork wrote:

But will you admit that humans are an anomaly in the theory of natural selection?
Humans are not "an anomaly in the theory of natural selection".

righthandfork wrote:

And if they are not, then give some examples of where something similar has happened before.
Just what is it that you think is so unique about humans?
TrollmeaT
Aspiring Objectivist
+492|6674|Colorado
Evolution can’t explain human achievement.

Philosophy can & does. Religion on the other hand cannot explain the blood bath that has followed it's principles for life which is the negation of it & of mans mind.
righthandfork
Member
+8|6234

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

righthandfork wrote:

But will you admit that humans are an anomaly in the theory of natural selection?
Humans are not "an anomaly in the theory of natural selection".

righthandfork wrote:

And if they are not, then give some examples of where something similar has happened before.
Just what is it that you think is so unique about humans?
That we dominate the entire planet and there is nothing to keep us in check.  That we are capable of completely destroying all forms of life.  When in earth's history has one species evolved in such a radical direction?  This is what the term anomaly means.
cowami
OY, BITCHTITS!
+1,106|6291|Noo Yawk, Noo Yawk

righthandfork wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

righthandfork wrote:

But will you admit that humans are an anomaly in the theory of natural selection?
Humans are not "an anomaly in the theory of natural selection".

righthandfork wrote:

And if they are not, then give some examples of where something similar has happened before.
Just what is it that you think is so unique about humans?
That we dominate the entire planet and there is nothing to keep us in check.  That we are capable of completely destroying all forms of life.  When in earth's history has one species evolved in such a radical direction?  This is what the term anomaly means.
There are in fact, things that keep us in check. Disease, for example. As a result of human achievement, though, we have been able to get around this. However, while we are unique in your argument that humans have evolved radically, this does not mean that another species cannot do so. We could just merely be the first one to do so.

EDIT: Forget it, I'll stick to lurking in the D&ST section, not joining in. Too much thinking.

Last edited by cowami (2007-04-05 17:46:58)

https://i.imgur.com/PfIpcdn.gif
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|6767|Cambridge (UK)

righthandfork wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

righthandfork wrote:

But will you admit that humans are an anomaly in the theory of natural selection?
Humans are not "an anomaly in the theory of natural selection".

righthandfork wrote:

And if they are not, then give some examples of where something similar has happened before.
Just what is it that you think is so unique about humans?
That we dominate the entire planet and there is nothing to keep us in check.  That we are capable of completely destroying all forms of life.  When in earth's history has one species evolved in such a radical direction?  This is what the term anomaly means.
That's not a radical direction at all. All organisms on this planet are competing to get their and only their DNA passed on down. Ideally replacing all other organisms in the process. We are just very good at achieving the means to that end. That does not make us radically different from any other organism.
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|6767|Cambridge (UK)

cowami wrote:

righthandfork wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

righthandfork wrote:

But will you admit that humans are an anomaly in the theory of natural selection?
Humans are not "an anomaly in the theory of natural selection".


Just what is it that you think is so unique about humans?
That we dominate the entire planet and there is nothing to keep us in check.  That we are capable of completely destroying all forms of life.  When in earth's history has one species evolved in such a radical direction?  This is what the term anomaly means.
There are in fact, things that keep us in check. Disease, for example. As a result of human achievement, though, we have been able to get around this. However, while we are unique in your argument that humans have evolved radically, this does not mean that another species cannot do so. We could just merely be the first one to do so.

EDIT: Forget it, I'll stick to lurking in the D&ST section, not joining in. Too much thinking.
learn to embrace that dull ache in the brain...
BVC
Member
+325|6696
Nutrition and communication are two reasons why we've achieved so much.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6758|Argentina
Sorry, what?
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|6767|Cambridge (UK)

sergeriver wrote:

Sorry, what?
Is that directed at anyone in particular?
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6602|132 and Bush

I believe the earth is billions of years old, not six thousand. I believe that life on this planet evolved over billions of years and not six days. Thousands of years ago people were curious as to the origins of life. They asked the people who were supposed to have the answers, the religious leaders. Back then those religious leaders did not have carbon dating or any of the scientific means that we have today. However they needed an answer. In ancient times the religious leaders held a great amount of power. If you gave the wrong answer or one that was to complicated someone else would come up with a more attractive offer and you would be replaced.

Last edited by Kmarion (2007-04-05 18:47:15)

Xbone Stormsurgezz
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6676|Canberra, AUS

righthandfork wrote:

Drakef wrote:

righthandfork wrote:

Let’s summarize the arguments:

I said 2% can’t explain a man on the moon vs. chimpanzees eating termites with a stick.

Most of the rest of you said 2% is a lot and can explain the gap that exists.

As my evidence, I said take any two species in the animal kingdom with a 2% difference and compare them.  For example a deer and a moose.  Every other species will be similar with slight advantages in speed, eyesight, sense of smell etc. adapted to their particular environment.  But the gap is always manageable.  Now something either went freakishly wrong (or right depending on your perspective) that makes the human gap so extreme that there is not a single other example that even comes close in the entire history of the natural world.

As your evidence, you present what?  You tell me not to watch PBS documentaries, while Wikipedia is the de facto authority in this forum?  Amusing.
Even more amusing is your shaky grasp of science. You seem to be determined to have found fault, but you know little about the subject other than a primitive attempt to use simple numbers as your proof. Much more complex than that. Evolution can explain human achievement, if you at least try to use the science correctly.
You’re right, I don’t know as much about science as you do.  But will you admit that humans are an anomaly in the theory of natural selection?  And if they are not, then give some examples of where something similar has happened before.  This is all I have been asking for.  Continued avoidance of this problem is an admission that the reality around us does not always conform to scientific theories.  I use the term “theories” as opposed to “fact,” because science is in a constant state of flux.  Throughout history new discoveries have led to complete revisions of scientific paradigms.  Or have we finally reached the “truth?”  Do our models of the natural world finally conform to reality and there is no need for advancement?
Not one eminent scientist within the last half a century believes/believed that humans are the pinnacle of evolution.

In fact, those who claim to say people STILL believe it and attack it are themselves attacked (e.g. Stephen Jay Gould, who tried to 'debunk' the theory of humans being the pinnacle of evolution, and then Richard Dawkins pointing out that no-one believed that theory anyway.)

They are an anomaly, yes, because there has never been a niche for humans to fill. There hasn't been a place where we can just settle down and just say 'yeah, that's enough, we don't need to change anymore', like the rest of the world has done. Humans, having no niche, have had to constantly improve themselves to find a niche (which may or may not exist)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Skorpy-chan
Member
+127|6346|Twyford, UK
Niches only happen for non-sentient animals. Humans, upon gaining said sentience, formed society in order to support it better through childcare. From there it snowballed until any potential niche was stamped out. Our predators died out. Our main prey animals died out. The plants we ate were selectively bred into new forms, followed by the animals we ate to replace things like mammoth.

The only thing that remains of any sort of a niche is endurance (people can still walk for days on end), sentience (now self-sustaining), and residual behaviours.
=OBS= EstebanRey
Member
+256|6551|Oxford, England, UK, EU, Earth
I guess it depends on what amazes you really.  For example,

A Hippo's skin is bulletproof to low-mid calibre guns.
An albatross can go for over a year without ever touching the ground.
A worm can survive being chopped in half.
Birds can fly.
Cheaters can run at over 70mph
Koalas can use eucalyptus as a hallucinogen.
Dolphins use sonar to detect the distance and location of objects.
Bats have a unique sense, Echolocation, which enables them to know the location of surrounding objects.  Contrary to the myth they also have very good night vision.....

I could go on.  I find animal's evolution just as remarkable as the Human one.

Last edited by =OBS= EstebanRey (2007-04-06 02:02:40)

PureFodder
Member
+225|6286
Ok, I'm surprised that the difference between humans and chimps is AS MUCH AS 2%.

Let's do a check list of similarities.

2 arms ; check
2 legs ; check
2 eyes ; check
eyes that have rods and cones ; check
Iris that responds to light ; check
skull that positions both eyes facing roughly forwards ; check
2 Ears ; check
Ears that have a large cartilage outer ear to help direct sound to the ear drum ; check
Inner ear part filled with fluids to assist balance keeping ; check
4 fingers 1 thumb per hand ; check
single elbow per arm ; check
mouth with teeth ; check
makes saliva that assists digestion ; check
Breathes and eats through the same orifice ; check
stomach that uses hydrochloric acid and enzymes to break down food ; check
a colon ; check
Pancreas? ; check
large and small intestine? ; check
Asshole for holding in crap till you can release it at the appropriate time / on internet forums ; check
Hemoglobin based blood ;  check
ATP? ; check
nervous system that is based of a brain, spinal column, and sends electrical nerve impulses ; check
etc. ; check

So as you can see as there has to be genetic material that accounts for so damned much of how our bodies function and are structured that this is the bulk of what the genetic code of both animals and humans consists of. The brain is by far the main difference between a human and a chimp and even then by far the majority of the brains functions are exactly the same, they can turn impulses from the ears, eyes, nerve cells etc. into a perception of the world around them. The ability to regulate all of the bodies many systems from circulatory, digestive, and hormonal to making the body remember to breath. We both follow instincts, read both body and verbal language, can use maps. We can both recognise ourselves as ourselves in a mirror. The vast majority of what the brain is and does is exactly the same between both chimps and humans.

2% difference between humans and chimps seems almost to be too much, given how similar we are.
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6520|Πάϊ

righthandfork wrote:

Evolution can’t explain human achievement
All I can add to this thread is that a few years back people couldn't explain the behaviour of the sea, so there was Poseidon. For thunder there was Zeus and the list goes on and on...
ƒ³
Ottomania
Troll has returned.
+62|6522|Istanbul-Turkey
https://www.impact-malaria.com/FR/EPS/Formations_et_cours_internationaux/Formation_de_la_Liverpool_School_LSTMH/cours_liverpool/Unit_6/images/chimpanzee.gif

https://blogs.southflorida.com/citylink_dansweeney/2005-10-2-george-bush.jpg

have you ever saw a half human-half chimpanzee? no.
if evolution happened it must be continuing today, then why we dont see something like  a mixture of human and chimpanzee?
an earthquake cant make a city smarter.so  mutations in chromosomes cant turn a chimpanzee into a human, which is much more better than chimpanz<e.
PureFodder
Member
+225|6286

Ottomania wrote:

http://www.impact-malaria.com/FR/EPS/Fo … panzee.gif

http://blogs.southflorida.com/citylink_ … e-bush.jpg

have you ever saw a half human-half chimpanzee? no.
if evolution happened it must be continuing today, then why we dont see something like  a mixture of human and chimpanzee?
an earthquake cant make a city smarter.so  mutations in chromosomes cant turn a chimpanzee into a human, which is much more better than chimpanz<e.
Erm, a mixture of human and chimpanzee would require someone to do something very unpleasant in the jungle.

We didn't evolve from chimps, we both evolved from the same ancestors, hence no half man half chimp.

You're analogy of an earthquake just shows that you have no idea what you're talking about.
Ottomania
Troll has returned.
+62|6522|Istanbul-Turkey
Just check the effects of radiation. changes in chromosome are undecided things.  they kill or they damage heavily.
max
Vela Incident
+1,652|6568|NYC / Hamburg

actually the reason why humans became the dominant race is that we discovered fire. When you cook/gill/whatever something, it is easier to digest and gives us more available energy. We can pretty much live on a cup of rice a day (energy wise, obviously its not a complete diet), while a chimp has to eat a lot more than that in the form of fruit, leaves, ... which takes more time to consume and also stresses the body longer to digest it. This discovery allowed our brains to evolve very quickly. Way superior brain = dominance.

2% is actually a lot when you think about that we are very similar to chimps body wise, all our organs work the same, the only real difference is a better brain a slightly different body pose (each bone/muscle that they have, we also have, just that the shape is a bit different)
once upon a midnight dreary, while i pron surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of ' hot  xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, " give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404.
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|6654
I think we (as humans) should now concentrate on switching the brains of live human and a live chimp.

Not for any particular scientific/philosophical reason, just for a laugh.
Skorpy-chan
Member
+127|6346|Twyford, UK
The main difference between human and chimp is learned and not genetic. Feral children that were raised by animals aren't that much different from them due to a lack of language.
ShowMeTheMonkey
Member
+125|6703
One of my main arguments for evoloution is bacteria such as MRSA.

It has adapted to become antibiotic resistant, as the ones that weren't resistant died out with the antibiotics.

You can even see them evolving and every so often a mutated one will occur.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6758|Argentina

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Sorry, what?
Is that directed at anyone in particular?
Yes, the OP.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6676|Canberra, AUS

Ottomania wrote:

Just check the effects of radiation. changes in chromosome are undecided things.  they kill or they damage heavily.
Not always. Usually they do nothing.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6676|Canberra, AUS
ATP? ; check
I may be mistaken, but I thought every living organism required ATP (as all organisms have mitochondria)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman

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