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2007-04-03 06:04:13
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6977|Global Command
You guys aren't the ones who had 3000 fucking civilians slaughtered on live television.

How in the fuck could you have any clue regarding the emotions involved in that?

You don't, and with luck you never will.

You guys aren't the ones who had 300 or so hostages held by Iran for over a year.

You couldn't possibly understand.


Rather pointless to try and get you to, I suspect.



You Iran defenders need to understand something: we have 130000+ troops in Iraq. Any persons wishing to talk to Iranians should do it at a U.S. base or be preparred to be black-listed or taken out.

Talk about apples to oranges.


Any you dudes care to go assist the Iranians and Iraqis in the jihad, feel free. Many of you would be embraced.
2007-04-03 06:16:56
PureFodder
Member
+225|6734

ATG wrote:

You guys aren't the ones who had 3000 fucking civilians slaughtered on live television.

How in the fuck could you have any clue regarding the emotions involved in that?

You don't, and with luck you never will.

You guys aren't the ones who had 300 or so hostages held by Iran for over a year.

You couldn't possibly understand.


Rather pointless to try and get you to, I suspect.



You Iran defenders need to understand something: we have 130000+ troops in Iraq. Any persons wishing to talk to Iranians should do it at a U.S. base or be preparred to be black-listed or taken out.

Talk about apples to oranges.


Any you dudes care to go assist the Iranians and Iraqis in the jihad, feel free. Many of you would be embraced.
Even if they are going to Basra? You know, the bit where all the British troops are?
The targeted Iranians were on an open official visit to Iraq and trying to kidnap them is a stupid way to provoke a country that America isn't at war with.

Should the French start to kidnap, German officials in Italy?

Do you actually WANT there to be a war with Iran?

BTW. During 9/11 and for the week after I was in America with Americans. I saw first hand the devastation at ground zero a week later. I do know the emotions that were involved then.
2007-04-03 06:21:37
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6738|Éire

ATG wrote:

You Iran defenders need to understand something: we have 130000+ troops in Iraq. Any persons wishing to talk to Iranians should do it at a U.S. base or be preparred to be black-listed or taken out.
Unbelievable ...Why not just change the flag of Iraq to red and white stripes with 51 stars while you're at it.

US enter a country in the attempt to install a Govt. beneficial to their own country = 'liberation'
Iran enter a country in the attempt to install a Govt. beneficial to their own country = 'stirring up shit'

Once again it's 'we're the goodies, they're the baddies'.

...oh sorry, does that make me an Iran defender? Try this, how about you both stay out of other nations business?
2007-04-03 06:24:43
tino275
Member
+14|7061

ATG wrote:

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2414760.ece


Well, my response to the Iranians is, stay the fuck out of Iraq and stop stirring up shit. We took their people from INSIDE Iraq, where they have no business being ( ya ya, we don't either, spare me ).

Anybody know what the current ROE for Iranians caught inside Iraq?
If it's not " shoot them on sight " it should be.
nuke the whole frekin contry we don't need it any way!
2007-04-03 06:28:52
KnowMeByTrailOfDead
Jackass of all Trades
+62|7129|Dayton, Ohio
Just a small question.  Where is the Iranian claim that we tried to kidnap 2 of thier people?  IF this happened don't you think it would be all over the head lines?  Iran would be threatening everybody to get their people back.  Not to mention that Iran would have made the link between the two to further justify thier position.  These guys don't keep quiet about anything.  They are all about propoganda both internal and internationally.  If the US had serveral of their people from a botched raid then that would be all we would be hearing about from Iran.
2007-04-03 06:29:00
crimson_grunt
Shitty Disposition (apparently)
+214|7103|Teesside, UK

tino275 wrote:

ATG wrote:

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2414760.ece


Well, my response to the Iranians is, stay the fuck out of Iraq and stop stirring up shit. We took their people from INSIDE Iraq, where they have no business being ( ya ya, we don't either, spare me ).

Anybody know what the current ROE for Iranians caught inside Iraq?
If it's not " shoot them on sight " it should be.
nuke the whole frekin contry we don't need it any way!
genocide.  great idea, should make you more popular in the world
2007-04-03 06:47:33
JahManRed
wank
+646|7076|IRELAND

ATG wrote:

You guys aren't the ones who had 3000 fucking civilians slaughtered on live television.
Explain to me what the Iranians had to do with 9/11? Most of the hijackers were from your friends Saudi.

ATG wrote:

How in the fuck could you have any clue regarding the emotions involved in that?.
It was a massive human tragedy and anyone with a heart, felt it break that faithful day. As far as I was aware the families of the peoples who died took Solace in the world wide out pouring of grief. Allot of Irish Americans died that day and a few Irish construction workers too, in fact their was people from all over the world who died that day.

ATG wrote:

You don't, and with luck you never will..
Way more than 3000 people have dies in Ireland due to terrorism and theirs less of us on the whole Island than one Borough of NY, so yes we do know and don't be so arrogant as to assume yous are the only nation to be touched by terrorism.

ATG wrote:

You guys aren't the ones who had 300 or so hostages held by Iran for over a year.

You couldn't possibly understand..
Wasn't aware of such an incident...........link plz?


ATG wrote:

Rather pointless to try and get you to, I suspect.



You Iran defenders need to understand something: we have 130000+ troops in Iraq. Any persons wishing to talk to Iranians should do it at a U.S. base or be prepared to be black-listed or taken out..
Why? Is it not the Iraqi government that's running the country? Or are you admitting that they are an undemocratically en-stowed puppet government? Like it or not, the Kurdish families are spread through Iran and northern Iraqi, the little incident in Arbil which I presume you are referring was a well establish office for Kurds wishing to travel to Iran to visit relatives, this office and the visiting Iranian officials were sanctioned by the Kurdistan Regional Government. That's a government that was democratically voted in by the people, no?
What gives yous the right to snatch invited officials on a regular peaceful excursion.

ATG wrote:

Talk about apples to oranges.
Ok lets compare then. The attempt to capture the 2 Iranian officials openly meeting with Iraqi leaders is somewhat as if Iran had tried to kidnap the heads of the CIA & M16 while they were on an official visit to a country neighbouring Iran. That is presuming that the Iraqi government is run by Iraqis.

ATG wrote:

Any you dudes care to go assist the Iranians and Iraqis in the jihad, feel free. Many of you would be embraced.
ATG, you have recently stated that your government mislead the American people into a war with Iraqi.
Would you admit that its feasible that the same thing could be happening again, only this time they are taking more care to cover their tracks paving the road to war?
I am no "Iran Defender" I am only pointing out that the USA's hands are not as clean as we are led to believe. They weren't clean during the build up to the Iraqi war and their is no reason to believe they are now. You admit to past failures but will not entertain the notion that they are happening again, now. Do you need a 4 year war with  Iran, 100 000 civilians and 3000 American troops dead before you will admit that America is ramping up its clandestine operations for intelligence gathering in preparations for war.
2007-04-03 07:45:15
Skorpy-chan
Member
+127|6793|Twyford, UK

CameronPoe wrote:

BN wrote:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/faye.jpg

How Iran treats Prisoners


http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGE … red.01.jpg

How USA treats Prisoners
My how the tables turned. How could America have stooped so low and turned their back on everything they ever stood for so readily? Such a contrast between the two images (the legitimacy of what Iran has done aside).
All they ever stood for... You mean rejecting perfectly good authority figures, religious extremism, genocide, racism, sexism, slavery, and civil war?
2007-04-03 07:58:53
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7030|SE London

JahManRed wrote:

ATG wrote:

You guys aren't the ones who had 300 or so hostages held by Iran for over a year.

You couldn't possibly understand..
Wasn't aware of such an incident...........link plz?
It was the American embassy incident in Iran. There was a botched rescue attempt in which several US troops were killed and which escalated the situation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw

Last edited by Bertster7 (2007-04-03 08:00:36)

2007-04-03 08:04:20
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7258|Nårvei

ATG wrote:

You guys aren't the ones who had 3000 fucking civilians slaughtered on live television.

How in the fuck could you have any clue regarding the emotions involved in that?

You don't, and with luck you never will.

You guys aren't the ones who had 300 or so hostages held by Iran for over a year.

You couldn't possibly understand.


Rather pointless to try and get you to, I suspect.



You Iran defenders need to understand something: we have 130000+ troops in Iraq. Any persons wishing to talk to Iranians should do it at a U.S. base or be preparred to be black-listed or taken out.

Talk about apples to oranges.


Any you dudes care to go assist the Iranians and Iraqis in the jihad, feel free. Many of you would be embraced.
Why do you guys always hide behind lines like the ones you just used, we fucking comprehend every aspect before and after 9/11, not sure how it is in the states but most European takes great interest in what goes around in the world.

We do understand more than you could possibly know, and like Jahman wrote not only American lives where lost that day and the world with a few exceptions mourned 9/11 - dont even try to pretend otherwise.

For your other points, nobody forced USA to deploy 130K soldiers to Iraq, infact all but the USA was against it and most still are and a growing number of your own citizens feels the same, what a god damn waste of lives and for nothing - i truly feel for the families that have send their young ones to Iraq to fight a meaningless battle - Bush should stand trial for that war like the criminal he is.

And stop being so freakin paranoid !
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
2007-04-03 08:12:17
PureFodder
Member
+225|6734

Bertster7 wrote:

JahManRed wrote:

ATG wrote:

You guys aren't the ones who had 300 or so hostages held by Iran for over a year.

You couldn't possibly understand..
Wasn't aware of such an incident...........link plz?
It was the American embassy incident in Iran. There was a botched rescue attempt in which several US troops were killed and which escalated the situation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw
Wasn't that the hostage situation that ended in a glorious display of republican values. Trading hostages for arms.
2007-04-03 08:40:43
motherdear
Member
+25|7100|Denmark/Minnesota (depends)
why the fuck do you people keep on saying that the us shouldn't be allowed to arrest people in iraq, ffs we are in a war over there and the only thing you do is undermining it. if you are occupying a country would you just stand by watching while a terrorist organisation is building up, we aren't in iraq just to be watching and doing nothing. we are in a war and we can't afford to risk anything with the bad mood back at home, we lost 3000 troops, which is a very low number compared to other conflicts.

okay so we ask why didn't we lose more people in the first golf war, well it's because we had been in Iraq for 3 months already taking out scuds and communication lines, while we were building up a army of over 300.000 troops along the border to Iraq, and remember that while we were standing at the border Iraq attacked Israel who hadn't done anything in this war against Iraq.
2007-04-03 09:20:44
EVieira
Member
+105|6926|Lutenblaag, Molvania

Braddock wrote:

ATG wrote:

You Iran defenders need to understand something: we have 130000+ troops in Iraq. Any persons wishing to talk to Iranians should do it at a U.S. base or be preparred to be black-listed or taken out.
Unbelievable ...Why not just change the flag of Iraq to red and white stripes with 51 stars while you're at it.

US enter a country in the attempt to install a Govt. beneficial to their own country = 'liberation'
Iran enter a country in the attempt to install a Govt. beneficial to their own country = 'stirring up shit'
Hey, its about the war on terror, remember? Its for the good of the world! Yeah, right...
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered;  the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei  (1564-1642)
2007-04-03 11:19:45
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6967|Πάϊ

JahManRed wrote:

ATG wrote:

You guys aren't the ones who had 3000 fucking civilians slaughtered on live television.
Explain to me what the Iranians had to do with 9/11? Most of the hijackers were from your friends Saudi.

ATG wrote:

How in the fuck could you have any clue regarding the emotions involved in that?.
It was a massive human tragedy and anyone with a heart, felt it break that faithful day. As far as I was aware the families of the peoples who died took Solace in the world wide out pouring of grief. Allot of Irish Americans died that day and a few Irish construction workers too, in fact their was people from all over the world who died that day.

ATG wrote:

You don't, and with luck you never will..
Way more than 3000 people have dies in Ireland due to terrorism and theirs less of us on the whole Island than one Borough of NY, so yes we do know and don't be so arrogant as to assume yous are the only nation to be touched by terrorism.

ATG wrote:

You guys aren't the ones who had 300 or so hostages held by Iran for over a year.

You couldn't possibly understand..
Wasn't aware of such an incident...........link plz?


ATG wrote:

Rather pointless to try and get you to, I suspect.



You Iran defenders need to understand something: we have 130000+ troops in Iraq. Any persons wishing to talk to Iranians should do it at a U.S. base or be prepared to be black-listed or taken out..
Why? Is it not the Iraqi government that's running the country? Or are you admitting that they are an undemocratically en-stowed puppet government? Like it or not, the Kurdish families are spread through Iran and northern Iraqi, the little incident in Arbil which I presume you are referring was a well establish office for Kurds wishing to travel to Iran to visit relatives, this office and the visiting Iranian officials were sanctioned by the Kurdistan Regional Government. That's a government that was democratically voted in by the people, no?
What gives yous the right to snatch invited officials on a regular peaceful excursion.

ATG wrote:

Talk about apples to oranges.
Ok lets compare then. The attempt to capture the 2 Iranian officials openly meeting with Iraqi leaders is somewhat as if Iran had tried to kidnap the heads of the CIA & M16 while they were on an official visit to a country neighbouring Iran. That is presuming that the Iraqi government is run by Iraqis.

ATG wrote:

Any you dudes care to go assist the Iranians and Iraqis in the jihad, feel free. Many of you would be embraced.
ATG, you have recently stated that your government mislead the American people into a war with Iraqi.
Would you admit that its feasible that the same thing could be happening again, only this time they are taking more care to cover their tracks paving the road to war?
I am no "Iran Defender" I am only pointing out that the USA's hands are not as clean as we are led to believe. They weren't clean during the build up to the Iraqi war and their is no reason to believe they are now. You admit to past failures but will not entertain the notion that they are happening again, now. Do you need a 4 year war with  Iran, 100 000 civilians and 3000 American troops dead before you will admit that America is ramping up its clandestine operations for intelligence gathering in preparations for war.
All I can add to JahManRed's response is that not everyone cares about nationalities when lives are lost. Personally I will never distinguish between the 6000+ Americans who have lost their lives since 9/11 and the thousands of casualties suffered by Afghanistan and Iraq since this whole thing begun. The dead carry no flags.
ƒ³
2007-04-03 11:33:27
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6977|Global Command
Easy for you to say from Greece.
2007-04-03 11:42:31
Masques
Black Panzer Party
+184|7170|Eastern PA

PureFodder wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

JahManRed wrote:


Wasn't aware of such an incident...........link plz?
It was the American embassy incident in Iran. There was a botched rescue attempt in which several US troops were killed and which escalated the situation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw
Wasn't that the hostage situation that ended in a glorious display of republican values. Trading hostages for arms.
That was a different incident. The hostages held by Iran were released in 1981. The arms-for-hostages fiasco took place in the early/mid-1980s (between 1983/4 and 1986) and were focused on hostages held by Hizbollah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra
http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NS … saebb2.htm
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB210/index.htm
2007-04-03 11:43:11
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7206|Argentina

ATG wrote:

You guys aren't the ones who had 3000 fucking civilians slaughtered on live television.

How in the fuck could you have any clue regarding the emotions involved in that?

You don't, and with luck you never will.

You guys aren't the ones who had 300 or so hostages held by Iran for over a year.

You couldn't possibly understand.


Rather pointless to try and get you to, I suspect.



You Iran defenders need to understand something: we have 130000+ troops in Iraq. Any persons wishing to talk to Iranians should do it at a U.S. base or be preparred to be black-listed or taken out.

Talk about apples to oranges.


Any you dudes care to go assist the Iranians and Iraqis in the jihad, feel free. Many of you would be embraced.
ATG, I won't pick on you, because it's more than clear there's a lot of emotions in your post.  When that happens the emotions take the place of reason. 
Anyone that wasn't shocked by 9/11 is an asshole.  But you can't blame the rest of the World for having a different view than yours.  I'm not saying Iran is right.  Iran is a major pain in the ass, they hadn't good intentions in Iraq, and this hostage situation doesn't make things better.
The British accepted to help US, nobody forced them.  So, nobody is blaming America for this episode.  Take it easy buddy and relax.
2007-04-03 12:29:31
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6967|Πάϊ

ATG wrote:

Easy for you to say from Greece.
Less propaganda so its certainly easier...
ƒ³
2007-04-03 12:37:34
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7049|132 and Bush

CameronPoe wrote:

BN wrote:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/faye.jpg

How Iran treats Prisoners


http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGE … red.01.jpg

How USA treats Prisoners
My how the tables turned. How could America have stooped so low and turned their back on everything they ever stood for so readily? Such a contrast between the two images (the legitimacy of what Iran has done aside).
Do you think the US would broadcast that? Do you think Iran would be broadcasting stuff like this to the world?

US citizens were just as appalled by Abu Ghraib (Remember the court marshals?). You can see some Iranians publicly advocating the execution of the kidnapped sailors. Let's not be so naive as to ignore the difference in the situations.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-04-03 12:57:21
Fen321
Member
+54|6946|Singularity
How about this little factoid.

Iran and the Taleban regime that was in place in Afghanistan essentially hated one other. Hell the Reformist in Iran even called the conservatives the TALEBAN OF THE IRAN!!!! This would be ally, and it was during the time we took action against Afghanistan, is essentially dick slapped (yes dick slapped) when it was then later labeled part of the Axis of Evil --- imagine for a brief moment that you are Iran. You are fighting a heating domestic issues as the current president Khatami. You as the president see the 9/11 attacks as both an act worth of condemnation on their part (which they did), but also as an opportunity due to the reality that now you BOTH have common enemies!!! Then you find out -- that hey -- the US has now placed you categorically with a despotic totalitarian regime and that of IRAQ -- a country you fought for 8 years and disliked!

Incoherent much?
2007-04-03 13:00:42
topal63
. . .
+533|7166

Kmarion wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

BN wrote:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/faye.jpg

How Iran treats Prisoners


http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGE … red.01.jpg

How USA treats Prisoners
My how the tables turned. How could America have stooped so low and turned their back on everything they ever stood for so readily? Such a contrast between the two images (the legitimacy of what Iran has done aside).
Do you think the US would broadcast that? Do you think Iran would be broadcasting stuff like this to the world?

US citizens were just as appalled by Abu Ghraib (Remember the court marshals?). You can see some Iranians publicly advocating the execution of the kidnapped sailors. Let's not be so naive as to ignore the difference in the situations.
I am not contradicting you, I am just thinking...

When we do something it's BIG... (American super-sized!) the actual military action/mobilization, and what happens in dark rooms often is not heard of... or exposed to the light of day. The horrors of war, this war, are simply not reported often (when we do it - we discount what we do as exception: Abu Ghraib, Haditha Massacre, etc). The (US) Iraq military action is perceived of in the Muslim world as an action against all Muslims. What we did is BIG. What can they do against this military action/mobilization.

What do you do against a power, a military power, you actually are not equal to? Small things, small stabs, terrorism, kidnapping, threating execution, fueling an insurgency, etc... and then they play up their tiny victories as something HUGE; done against the more powerful adversary. It seems to me to be a pattern of behavior, thinking, a meme, across the board (in the Muslim World), that is easy to understand. I think that is why they are allowed to, and do, broadcast their tiny occasional victories against their (potentially) sworn & more powerful adversaries.

Last edited by topal63 (2007-04-03 13:14:34)

2007-04-03 13:53:42
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7049|132 and Bush

Agreed. My point was simply pointing out how silly it is to try and compare the two incidents. In one they are carefully selecting what they want everyone to see.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-04-03 14:06:38
topal63
. . .
+533|7166

Kmarion wrote:

Agreed. My point was simply pointing out how silly it is to try and compare the two incidents. In one they are carefully selecting what they want everyone to see.
True enough...

May I digress a bit futher? ... I've have always thought prior, or rather pior to 9/11, that terrorism itself is a inevitable evolution of form regarding modern war or hostile international aggression. It seems realistic that this form is an outgrowth; or reaction to; the Super Powers - the military might of other nations. They really can/could not wage a real war against us. The Ottoman Empire is done and gone. They can only make meaningless little stabs against a far greater foe.

Seems pointless to me - someone should demonstrate the reality of this to those who advocate terrorism (of course the Muslim world should just wake up from its Jihad Nightmare - it's moronic and futile).

Last edited by topal63 (2007-04-03 14:09:25)

2007-04-03 14:19:56
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|7097

Kmarion wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

BN wrote:

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/faye.jpg

How Iran treats Prisoners


http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGE … red.01.jpg

How USA treats Prisoners
My how the tables turned. How could America have stooped so low and turned their back on everything they ever stood for so readily? Such a contrast between the two images (the legitimacy of what Iran has done aside).
Do you think the US would broadcast that? Do you think Iran would be broadcasting stuff like this to the world?

US citizens were just as appalled by Abu Ghraib (Remember the court marshals?). You can see some Iranians publicly advocating the execution of the kidnapped sailors. Let's not be so naive as to ignore the difference in the situations.
I seem to think from the other topic about this that it was about 300 (SPAAAARTA! ) Iranians that were advocating the execution of them. From a population of 68,688,433, that's 4.36810^-6% of the population. Not exactly a majority. I'm sure far more people in the US advocate nuking Iran than that.
2007-04-03 14:22:39
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7049|132 and Bush

ghettoperson wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:


My how the tables turned. How could America have stooped so low and turned their back on everything they ever stood for so readily? Such a contrast between the two images (the legitimacy of what Iran has done aside).
Do you think the US would broadcast that? Do you think Iran would be broadcasting stuff like this to the world?

US citizens were just as appalled by Abu Ghraib (Remember the court marshals?). You can see some Iranians publicly advocating the execution of the kidnapped sailors. Let's not be so naive as to ignore the difference in the situations.
I seem to think from the other topic about this that it was about 300 (SPAAAARTA! ) Iranians that were advocating the execution of them. From a population of 68,688,433, that's 4.36810^-6% of the population. Not exactly a majority. I'm sure far more people in the US advocate nuking Iran than that.
I was careful in my wording and used "some".
Xbone Stormsurgezz

 

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