CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|7002
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6505803.stm

Some of the more interesting comments of King Abdullah at the Arab League summit:

"In beloved Iraq, blood is flowing between brothers, in the shadow of an illegitimate foreign occupation, and abhorrent sectarianism threatens a civil war."

The Saudi monarch insisted said the "real blame" for Arab woes lay with squabbling Arab rulers, who could only prevent "foreign powers from drawing the region's future" if they united. [As commonly stated by Kmarion]

So does this represent a meaningful change in the relationship between the US and Saudi Arabia? Saudi Arabia almost never criticise their oil-hungry brothers across the Atlantic. What is going on here???

PS: Fucked up the title, apologies.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-03-29 05:35:38)

BVC
Member
+325|7142
Political posteuring.  Criticise the US, gain brownie points amongst US haters.

Last edited by Pubic (2007-03-29 05:43:21)

Braddock
Agitator
+916|6737|Éire
Maybe King Abdullah is heading towards being the next Saddam!? They do essentially own over 10% of the American economy though don't they?
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|7008
Political posturing?  He hasn't threatened to do anything, of cause it's posturing.  The question is whether it pre-empts a change in policy.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|7002

Pubic wrote:

Political posteuring.  Criticise the US, gain brownie points amongst US haters.
My thoughts exactly. He's losing ground to the Iranian leaders and needs to put on a show.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6975|Global Command
Nothing new here. The Sauds have long been involved in funding Sunni insurgence in Iraq.

That they are saying this publicaly simply represents them moving their Bishop up to check the Pawns.

In other words, they are going public with their war speech, saying in so many words " we have a national interest worth fighting over here. "  They are also attempting to asert their leadership.
JimmyBotswana
Member
+82|7032|Montreal

CameronPoe wrote:

The Saudi monarch insisted said the "real blame" for Arab woes lay with squabbling Arab rulers, who could only prevent "foreign powers from drawing the region's future" if they united. [As commonly stated by Kmarion]
hmmmm, the beginnings of the MEC perhaps?
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6851|North Carolina
Every once in a while, a military pimpsmack is needed to straighten things out.

Edit: The message is clearer and simpler.

Last edited by Turquoise (2007-03-31 13:24:00)

Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6892|The Land of Scott Walker
You guys are confusing me today.  Why Saudi and not Iraq?
jsnipy
...
+3,277|6969|...

Pubic wrote:

Political posteuring.  Criticise the US, gain brownie points amongst US haters.
Really no different than Oprah doing great things for black people maily.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6851|North Carolina

Stingray24 wrote:

You guys are confusing me today.  Why Saudi and not Iraq?
I'll concede on this point....

Last edited by Turquoise (2007-03-31 13:25:33)

SaudiFury
Member
+3|6693|USA and Saudi Arabia (College)
excuse me?

show me real evidence that Saudi is funneling arms and money to Sunni insurgents? where you found Iranian weapons cache's in Iraq as well as Iranian Revolutinary manuals, you've found nothing but a few lone wolf Saudi citizens who've went off on their OWN ACCORD not on Saudi's behalf to fight America in Iraq. just like your John Walker Lindh fella in Afghanistan.


King Abdullah made the comments on Bush's occupation of Iraq because as far as international law is concerned at the UN the occupation of Iraq IS illegal, you went it alone by yourself against the advice of your arab allies (which according to you guys you have none but i guess we see it differently) and against the UN. now your screwed, and because the Arab world has seen nothing but bloodshed - WHICH by the way we did comment on how that is Arabs fault - since America invaded we do get ticked off. we don't hate you in Saudi!

i am a Saudi and i'm trying to tell you this, yes we are ticked at you for invading Iraq anyone in this region would of told you the trouble you were getting yourselves into but fuck don't listen to that god damn sandn******
what does he know.

Saudi Arabia is pulling away from the Bush administration same with the rest of the GCC member states and Jordan, we see the handwriting on the wall, Bush is lame duck now and all he does is give us Arab leaders hell with our own people.

Turquoise

1 Saudi Arabia no longer has America bases - since 2003!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2984547.stm

2. we have captured and killed hundreds of terrorist, every Mosque in the country is bugged watching and listening to imam's. they fired ove a 1000 Imam's for what the government deemed radical, fuck you if you think Saudi is funneling terrorism, were bastards in teh eyes of the terrorists for even doing business with you. we stand with you! when it comes to terror.

who funded Al-Qaeda? yes Saudi did but so did CIA god damn it when it suited our mutual interests. CIA don't like Soviet, and Saudi do'nt want to see a Muslim state get invaded.

if you got anymroe to say bring it..


----------------------------------


PS. we are not your fucking PAWN! piss off if thats what you want.

Last edited by SaudiFury (2007-03-31 11:59:34)

Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6851|North Carolina
The Bin Laden family is still very powerful in Saudi Arabia, and some unknown family members have maintained contact with Osama.  They still fund him.

While it is true that we have no proof of the Saudi Arabian state funding terror, we do have proof of Saudi Arabian aristocrats that fund Sunni insurgents in Iraq.  This is the same kind of thing Iran has been doing in Iraq, except that they fund the Shiite insurgents.

Saudi Arabia's government is currently friendlier to our interests than many other countries in the region, but no offense: I don't think we should continue trusting any countries in the Middle East any longer than we have to.  The only reason we even care about the region is because of oil.  Once we move away from foreign oil, Saudi Arabia, Israel, and everyone else in the region will have to fend for themselves.
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6937|Menlo Park, CA

Turquoise wrote:

I was against the Iraq War, but I'm fine with toppling the Saudi government if they prove to be contrary to our interests.  After all, we basically run the infrastructure of that country.  They should be our bitch and swallow while they're at it.

If not, a military pimpsmack is needed to straighten things out.
lol "military pimpsmack"!! I am gonna use that!! that is with your permission +1
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6851|North Carolina
Thanks, steve... 

Anyway, SaudiFury, you make some good points, but our relations are strained not only because of the invasion of Iraq.

Your country is even more plutocratic than America is.  The wealth disparity in Saudi Arabia is absurd, and admittedly, we helped make it that way through the greed of oil companies.

Nevertheless, as long as poverty remains significant in Saudi Arabia, extremists will continue to find support among the poor and less educated.
SaudiFury
Member
+3|6693|USA and Saudi Arabia (College)
show me proof of Saudi Arabian aristocrats funneling money.

gotta show me the links otherwise your point is mute.

the Bin Laden Family i do agree with you, if you know anyting about the importance of family you'll know that but you also ought to know that after 9/11 and the US was overbearing down on Afghanistan that OBL's son left him, blaming him for getting the 400 lb gorilla on our backs.

whether you like it or not, or know it or not, Saudi Arabia and the GCC member states are a lot more tied economically to the US than you may think, whether there is oil or not you will still have to deal with us. right now Saudi Arabia is giving oil to China and India first as opposed to US, China and India have been paying in liquid funds.

you've got to prove to me, its just like these nonesense Israeli conspiracy theories which you would obviously from your Western POV would say its nonesense, but regardelss if you want to prove it, prove it with hard facts not with speculation.



Saudi and terrorist attacks upon it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_attacks_in_Saudi_Arabia

Saudi security forces captures men funneling funds to Al-Qaeda

http://www.saudiembassy.net/2005News/Press/PressDetail.asp?cIndex=273

http://jamestown.org/terrorism/news/article.php?articleid=2370202

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11538965/

i can show you much more.

i just get very annoyed when i hear Westerners say we support terror, when - it is very probable that there are some individuals funneling SOMEWHERE - were against it.

----------------

ps, i've lived through the Gulf War, and was witness to the Khobar tower bombings in 1996 by Hezbollah.

Last edited by SaudiFury (2007-03-31 15:59:37)

fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6937|Menlo Park, CA

Turquoise wrote:

Thanks, steve... 

Anyway, SaudiFury, you make some good points, but our relations are strained not only because of the invasion of Iraq.

Your country is even more plutocratic than America is.  The wealth disparity in Saudi Arabia is absurd, and admittedly, we helped make it that way through the greed of oil companies.

Nevertheless, as long as poverty remains significant in Saudi Arabia, extremists will continue to find support among the poor and less educated.
I agree with you again on this issue. couldnt have said it better actually!
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6851|North Carolina

SaudiFury wrote:

show me proof of Saudi Arabian aristocrats funneling money.

gotta show me the links otherwise your point is mute.

the Bin Laden Family i do agree with you, if you know anyting about the importance of family you'll know that but you also ought to know that after 9/11 and the US was overbearing down on Afghanistan that OBL's son left him, blaming him for getting the 400 lb gorilla on our backs.

whether you like it or not, or know it or not, Saudi Arabia and the GCC member states are a lot more tied economically to the US than you may think, whether there is oil or not you will still have to deal with us. right now Saudi Arabia is giving oil to China and India first as opposed to US, China and India have been paying in liquid funds.

you've got to prove to me, its just like these nonesense Israeli conspiracy theories which you would obviously from your Western POV would say its nonesense, but regardelss if you want to prove it, prove it with hard facts not with speculation.



Saudi and terrorist attacks upon it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_te … udi_Arabia

Saudi security forces captures men funneling funds to Al-Qaeda

http://www.saudiembassy.net/2005News/Pr … cIndex=273

http://jamestown.org/terrorism/news/art … id=2370202

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11538965/

i can show you much more.

i just get very annoyed when i hear Westerners say we support terror, when - it is very probable that there are some individuals funneling SOMEWHERE - were for it.
Just to let you know, I'm not a fan of Israel either.  I'm just saying America should distance itself from the Middle East.  I am glad that we can cooperate on counterterrorism efforts, but I'd also suggest that much of this Islamist terror would never have become as much of a problem for my country had we just left your region alone in the first place.

This isn't really a battle America should remain in much longer.  We need to get out of Iraq, stabilize Afghanistan and address certain issues in Pakistan.  After that, it's up to the Islamic World to fix this extremism problem.
SaudiFury
Member
+3|6693|USA and Saudi Arabia (College)
i actually am one of the few who think the US should be more comprehensive in its approach to help Iraq, and i'm against unilateral withdrawl.

a metaphor i keep remembering is a teenager (US) who gets made at his parents (UN) and busts up the car (Iraq) but rather then trying to fix it the kid ditch's it because its far easier to do so as far as the kid is concerned.

i will admit the income desparity is harsh in Saudi that is no lie and something that the government is not happy about. the government under the rule of King Abdullah is changing that. King Fahed was a lazy and incompetent king and he ruled for 22 years, half that time literally brain dead. it is because of King Abdullah i am in college right now studying in the US for Mechanical Engineering degree.

King Abdullah has also opened up a dialog between Shiite and Sunni Saudi's trying to mend fences, for the first time Shiites and Women have a chance of getting the government scholarship and getting a degree in a field that matters.

private television has announced in a research poll that those who put on their resume they were a part of a religious club are less likely to get a job.

things are changing in Saudi and the GCC. we just have to go at our own pace.

for the first time many more technical schools are opening so that Saudi's of lower class status's can get a job like a mechanic or an electricition.

all Fahed and his brothers did (King Abdullah is a half brother and he was not like Fahed and his brothers i can explain if you like) was set up fat bank accounts for each other and their children they did very little in the way of opening the country for further social change.

like King Abdullah said

"Whether you like it or not i will drag you kicking and screaming into the 21st century"

it is too bad that he is 83 and very little time left to live... though has been in very good health.
-----------------

btw there is a branch of hte Saudi military meant solely for Counter-terrorism, this happened after the Iraq invasion as we shifted focus from fighting potentially Iraq to threats from within.

Last edited by SaudiFury (2007-03-31 13:16:31)

Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6851|North Carolina
Thanks for sharing.....  For the sake of continuing a more civil debate, I'll amend some previous posts of mine in this thread.

Again, a more comprehensive approach to U.S. influence in Iraq would be nice, but we're going to need countries like Saudi Arabia to assist us in productive ways during this operation.  It's just that, until we see more Islamic countries step up to help us, I don't see any real reason for us to stay in Iraq.  This is more for your interests than America's.

We may have broken Iraq by deposing Saddam and letting insurgents flood into the country, but ultimately, it's more of a problem for the various nations of the Middle East than it is for us, because it's right next door to your country, among many others.
Major_Spittle
Banned
+276|7101|United States of America
Sounds to me like King Abdullah is preparing to announce candidacy to run for President as a Democrat.

They all spout this shit before they run to get their Democrat voting base excited.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7121|Canberra, AUS

Major_Spittle wrote:

Sounds to me like King Abdullah is preparing to announce candidacy to run for President as a Democrat.

They all spout this shit before they run to get their Democrat voting base excited.
What the fuck does Saudi Arabia have to do with the Democrats?

Goddamn, all you seem to do is something bad = Democrat/liberal.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman

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