Israel is weary. We had 9/11, and they have suicide bombings on a regular basis. Coexisting may not be ideal, but I think they would be more than happy to coexist if it meant the suicide bombings stopped. If they were not going to settle for anything but everything they want, they wouldn't have bothered trying to negotiate with Palestine, and wouldn't have gone to the trouble to forcibly remove Jews from Gaza.cpt.fass1 wrote:
I have very few jewish friends, but from what I gather from the hasidics around here is that they wouldn't be happy to coexist with the Muslims, there's not even happy to coexist with the christins and look down on everybody.
I'm makeing a generalization because it's all I really can do I'm not a racist or anti-semitic cause I also can't stand christians who take there religion too serious AKA good ol' buddy boy Pat. Isreal is a country based around their religion like all the other middle east countries, so I can see how it causes a strife there.
And here's a question for you. If the middle east countries had a modern day army would there be an Isreal?
Poll
Israel had been Established Elsewhere would Arabs still Be Terrorist?
| Yes | 52% | 52% - 49 | ||||
| No | 47% | 47% - 44 | ||||
| Total: 93 | ||||||
Yeah but a main part of the suicide bombings are because they were expanding Israel on a day to day basis. They bulldoze the homes of the Palestinings at night and shot people without warning, I saw that in a documentary on HBO.
Think about it, I don't care what you religion says everyone is human and to actually get to the point where blowing yourself up with explosives becomes a rational obtion is just crazy. You'd have to push someone really far in order for them to do that.
Just my thought
Think about it, I don't care what you religion says everyone is human and to actually get to the point where blowing yourself up with explosives becomes a rational obtion is just crazy. You'd have to push someone really far in order for them to do that.
Just my thought
Yes, this happened in the Arab-Israeli/Yom Kippur war of 1973. Egypt and Syria (both using armies supplied with Soviet military equipment) launched a joint attack on Israel (supplied with US military equipment). This was initially a success but after a week or so the Israeli forces counterattacked and at the end of it all ended up with more territory than it started off with. My point is that the armed forces of Egypt and Syria were well equipped and well trained, and had a modern day army for that period. Despite this, the Israeli army was better co-ordinated and so (eventually, and mainly due to errors by the Egyptians/Syrians) was able to reverse the conflict.cpt.fass1 wrote:
I have very few jewish friends, but from what I gather from the hasidics around here is that they wouldn't be happy to coexist with the Muslims, there's not even happy to coexist with the christins and look down on everybody.
I'm makeing a generalization because it's all I really can do I'm not a racist or anti-semitic cause I also can't stand christians who take there religion too serious AKA good ol' buddy boy Pat. Isreal is a country based around their religion like all the other middle east countries, so I can see how it causes a strife there.
And here's a question for you. If the middle east countries had a modern day army would there be an Isreal?
I suppose if Iraq had the military capability that it had in the 1980's/90's, but in 1973, then it would have also been involved with the conflict which could have seen an entirely different outcome. But at that time, none of the other Arab nations were either close enough or had an effective enough military. And Saudi Arabia would definitely not have taken action due to it's heavy US presence (which it allowed and encouraged I might add).
Last edited by IkoShinra264 (2006-01-13 15:58:22)
To us, and most other religions you are right. The Muslims have been brainwashed for so damn long, because of internal and external conflicts, that to them it is not that big of a deal. They are so staunchly dedicated to their religion that many view it as a privilege to do it. They gain martyr status (go to heaven, go straight to heaven. Gain your wings and 72 virgins) and often their family is rewarded handsomly for the sacrifice.cpt.fass1 wrote:
Think about it, I don't care what you religion says everyone is human and to actually get to the point where blowing yourself up with explosives becomes a rational obtion is just crazy. You'd have to push someone really far in order for them to do that.
Just my thought
I also don't see allowing the Jews to be kicked out of, yet another, areaAgent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Our support of Israel is not the only reason that Muslims don't like us. Hell, they've been fighting amongst themselves between the Sunis, Shiites, and Kurds forever...
If we didn't supply the weapons to Israel, some one else would, but even then all our other medling in the middle east would still have us as targets. While there are some very extreme radicals that believe everyone will be a Muslim or they will dead, we have created our own problems in the Muslim nations.
I also don't see allowing the Jews to be kicked out of, yet another, area and slaughtered as the way to handle it. The Jews have been the red headed stepchildren since the days of their enslavement by Egypt. The Jews would be happy to coexist with the Muslims, but the Muslims don't want to coexist with them.
and slaughtered as the way to handle it
Who said slauhghterd? And how come their Religion rates them a Country on other peoples land?
The Jews have been the red headed stepchildren?
Who's fault is this? Not mine. Maybe if they didnt go around pushing the " Gods Master Race thing? "
who knows
The Jews would be happy to coexist with the Muslims, ?
you wouldnt know it to look at what they do in Palistine?
Horseman, what was that documentary on HBO?
Horseman 77 Hey . . . i can tell you need to watch more NEWS shows .. ARABS aren't the terrorist?
Sheis mouslims are . . .GOD i swear there are a lot of dumbass's in forums with most of them don't have a clue one damn thing thier talking about . ..sit down and again talk to some real arabs
Sheis mouslims are . . .GOD i swear there are a lot of dumbass's in forums with most of them don't have a clue one damn thing thier talking about . ..sit down and again talk to some real arabs
I did Genralize alittle to get the jist of the post on one line But....you need to read the posts. or just stfu
Becuase unless you read some theological book it was called Palistine. Read any WWI book about the region and tell me if your see the Word Israel anywhere. Some how after WWII they coped a country. Trouble ever since. check the papers youll see.Hero764 wrote:
How could Israel be made Israel in another country while the original one itself was called (and now is) Israel? =\Horseman 77 wrote:
Do you think the World would be as Polarized if we had not, in 1947 Created a Nation in a Land that was already occupied for centuries?
The problem is their islam religion... Those bastards are not afraid to die, and yes they would be terrorists anyway, I think. Also kamikaze japanese pilots suicided all the time but that is Bushido, the samurai warrior holy code of conduct...
I think all muslim countries are a real danger for the civilized world.
The word assassin comes from "hachisin", a cannabis smoker religious fanatic arab soldier who would go out for war keeping his soul ready for death, purified ("stoned") by the smoke. He would believe Allah was waiting for him in heaven with lots of women, food and music for eternal life.
I think all muslim countries are a real danger for the civilized world.
The word assassin comes from "hachisin", a cannabis smoker religious fanatic arab soldier who would go out for war keeping his soul ready for death, purified ("stoned") by the smoke. He would believe Allah was waiting for him in heaven with lots of women, food and music for eternal life.
Last edited by Stratocaster (2006-01-13 21:53:28)
Simple answer, yes. The jihad will continue whatever the stated reason. There are multiple threads about this already.Israel had been Established Elsewhere would Arabs still Be Terrorist?
israel stay in jurusilim due to religous belief (soz bout spelling but u get the point) it is their homeland and they have a right to be there ... anyways israel has kicked the f0ck through EGYPT , SYRIA , JORDAN and LEBANON .... whos next i say
I.M.I Militant there is no need to state the fact that Egypt, Syria, Jordan, and Lebanon were owned by the Israelis, it does not advance any discussion withing the topic.
And it's not the Arabs who are the terrorists, it's the fundamentalist Muslims who are the terrorists.
And it's not the Arabs who are the terrorists, it's the fundamentalist Muslims who are the terrorists.
Its the Homeland of THREE separate Religions. Yet...I.M.I Militant wrote:
israel stay in jurusilim due to religous belief (soz bout spelling but u get the point) it is their homeland and they have a right to be there ... anyways israel has kicked the f0ck through EGYPT , SYRIA , JORDAN and LEBANON .... whos next i say
They are there Because we put them there and set them up and protected them.
by No other reason would they still exist.
Yes they did well fighting unorganized stone age nations While supplied with US Intel and
while funded and Equipped by the USA.
They accomplished this by perpetrating a Surprise attack in an Un declared War
" ala Pearl Harbor "
Moved into and seized the Golan Heights during a UN negotiated Cease Fire.
Committed atrocities and war crimes to cover the Act up including....
Attacking USS Liberty a US Navy ship in international waters..
and Strafing the Crew for 45 minutes while they attempted to abandon ship.
Had The Arab Nations been US military Equipped and israel had Communist Bloc Weapons.
and support,
They would be a skid mark in history.
They owe their lives to The USA but you'd never know it from lack of reciprocation.
So keep it in prespective..... " Who's next ? " .... lol
Muslims are not a danger to the civilized world. Any extremist movement of ANY religion - judaism, christianity, or islam, is dangerous to the civlized world.
The reason the Middle East dislikes us is because of the fact that we back a city that is held as holy by 3 separate religions. For a little history about the city...
It was originally a holy city by the jews, because judaism is the oldest religion of the three monotheisms. Since the Jews believed their piety had been slipping, they felt that Yahweh had given their holy city to conquering invaders (I belive they were either Assyrians or Babylonians...I really don't remember, so don't flame me for this - it WAS an army). They then became the diaspora jews and lived throughout the middle east. The city was occupied by Arabs after this, where they GRACIOUSLY let all practitioners of any religion visit the city, until the Christian extremists took it over and slaughtered everyone in the city. The Arabs took it over a little time later, and it is in the state it is today.
The extremist terrorist muslims that are around today are identical to the Knights Templar of the tail end of the Crusades.
It's good that we back Israel the way we do - they've returned to the land that was theirs in the beginning. Do you think the muslims would automatically forgive us if we dropped our support of them and backed their interests? I doubt it.
The reason the Middle East dislikes us is because of the fact that we back a city that is held as holy by 3 separate religions. For a little history about the city...
It was originally a holy city by the jews, because judaism is the oldest religion of the three monotheisms. Since the Jews believed their piety had been slipping, they felt that Yahweh had given their holy city to conquering invaders (I belive they were either Assyrians or Babylonians...I really don't remember, so don't flame me for this - it WAS an army). They then became the diaspora jews and lived throughout the middle east. The city was occupied by Arabs after this, where they GRACIOUSLY let all practitioners of any religion visit the city, until the Christian extremists took it over and slaughtered everyone in the city. The Arabs took it over a little time later, and it is in the state it is today.
The extremist terrorist muslims that are around today are identical to the Knights Templar of the tail end of the Crusades.
It's good that we back Israel the way we do - they've returned to the land that was theirs in the beginning. Do you think the muslims would automatically forgive us if we dropped our support of them and backed their interests? I doubt it.
" It's good that we back Israel the way we do -
they've returned to the land that was theirs in the beginning. "
In The USA we have a "seperation of church and State so it seems a bit draconian to Jam someone elses Religous Beliefs down the Palistinians Throats " their specail book says this land is their's ! "
" Do you think the muslims would automatically forgive us if we dropped our support of them and backed their interests? I doubt it. "
I think its worth a Try at the very least we owe it to them. We owe israel nothing.
on the other hand do you think I could go back to Scotland and just Cop a Farm or two ?
Hey my ancestors used to live here.. I think., I sure they'd love it as much as the Arabs did.
they've returned to the land that was theirs in the beginning. "
In The USA we have a "seperation of church and State so it seems a bit draconian to Jam someone elses Religous Beliefs down the Palistinians Throats " their specail book says this land is their's ! "
" Do you think the muslims would automatically forgive us if we dropped our support of them and backed their interests? I doubt it. "
I think its worth a Try at the very least we owe it to them. We owe israel nothing.
on the other hand do you think I could go back to Scotland and just Cop a Farm or two ?
Hey my ancestors used to live here.. I think., I sure they'd love it as much as the Arabs did.
The reason Bin Laden hates you [US] guys and is breeding terrorists (so you say. He's on DIALYSIS, for goodness' sake!) is 'cos the Saudi royal (or some of them) are so friendly to youse guys. Isreal is a sour point, but not the main one. And why do you need an Enemy, anyway?
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
First of all, the Israelites have a right to their land as the Native Americans *should*. Jewdaism is not only a religion, it is a RACE. As for the separation of Church and State, what a load of bullshit. Our money says in God we Trust on it, and the president called the War in Iraq a "crusade". Take that as you may, with or without religious connotation - he's a red blooded Texan, so I'm guessing it wasn't a mistake.Horseman 77 wrote:
" It's good that we back Israel the way we do -
they've returned to the land that was theirs in the beginning. "
In The USA we have a "seperation of church and State so it seems a bit draconian to Jam someone elses Religous Beliefs down the Palistinians Throats " their specail book says this land is their's ! "
" Do you think the muslims would automatically forgive us if we dropped our support of them and backed their interests? I doubt it. "
I think its worth a Try at the very least we owe it to them. We owe israel nothing.
on the other hand do you think I could go back to Scotland and just Cop a Farm or two ?
Hey my ancestors used to live here.. I think., I sure they'd love it as much as the Arabs did.
As for pushing it down people's throats, we're not doing that. We're recognizing a government that was created after a toil of civil strife. Most countries in the world recognize Israel as a state. Besides, why the hell do we owe the Muslims anything? Honestly - how do they deserve it anymore than the jews? All the Muslims have done for us (that I can recall) is that their extremist groups bomb us.
You could use this same argument for the Palestinians. They were living in the region before the Jews came back and turned it into Israel, at which point they were displaced.TehSeraphim wrote:
First of all, the Israelites have a right to their land as the Native Americans *should*.
" First of all, the Israelites have a right to their land as the Native Americans *should*. "
No shit pal and By the way they fought just as hard for their land. Also who would you rather be captured by, an Apache or a Terrorist?
"Jewdaism is not only a religion, it is a RACE."
It is not a RACE most of the jews were from Northern Europe anyway.
" the separation of Church and State, what a load of bullshit. Our money says in God we Trust on it, and the president called the War in Iraq a "crusade".
That's a Slogan a motto As it were, get real. When you say I kicked his Ass, does anyone really think you actually kicked him in the Ass. Bring your own examples.
As for pushing it down people's throats, we're not doing that. We're recognizing a government that was created after a toil of civil strife.
Is that what you call an Invasion and a War?
" Most countries in the world recognize Israel as a state.
Your point is what?
" Besides, why the hell do we owe the Muslims anything? Honestly - how do they deserve it anymore than the jews? All the Muslims have done for us (that I can recall) is that their extremist groups bomb us. "
Israel has Bombed enough people. The use Apache Heilos to carry out assassinations in the worlds most densely populated area. Menacum Began was a Terrorist himself in his younger days he bombed hotels patriot that he was.
What do we owe Arabs Nothing but we need their oil and they badly wish to sell it to us.
What is Fcuking that deal up Between our countries? You know the answer.
We dont need enemies we need oil
No shit pal and By the way they fought just as hard for their land. Also who would you rather be captured by, an Apache or a Terrorist?
"Jewdaism is not only a religion, it is a RACE."
It is not a RACE most of the jews were from Northern Europe anyway.
" the separation of Church and State, what a load of bullshit. Our money says in God we Trust on it, and the president called the War in Iraq a "crusade".
That's a Slogan a motto As it were, get real. When you say I kicked his Ass, does anyone really think you actually kicked him in the Ass. Bring your own examples.
As for pushing it down people's throats, we're not doing that. We're recognizing a government that was created after a toil of civil strife.
Is that what you call an Invasion and a War?
" Most countries in the world recognize Israel as a state.
Your point is what?
" Besides, why the hell do we owe the Muslims anything? Honestly - how do they deserve it anymore than the jews? All the Muslims have done for us (that I can recall) is that their extremist groups bomb us. "
Israel has Bombed enough people. The use Apache Heilos to carry out assassinations in the worlds most densely populated area. Menacum Began was a Terrorist himself in his younger days he bombed hotels patriot that he was.
What do we owe Arabs Nothing but we need their oil and they badly wish to sell it to us.
What is Fcuking that deal up Between our countries? You know the answer.
We dont need enemies we need oil
Exactly.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Yes it is a race, in 1492 we were exiled from muslim spain and we scattered all over north africa, europ, Russia and North Asian arab countries (Iran, Iraq etc.).Horseman 77 wrote:
" First of all, the Israelites have a right to their land as the Native Americans *should*. "
No shit pal and By the way they fought just as hard for their land. Also who would you rather be captured by, an Apache or a Terrorist?
"Jewdaism is not only a religion, it is a RACE."
It is not a RACE most of the jews were from Northern Europe anyway.
" the separation of Church and State, what a load of bullshit. Our money says in God we Trust on it, and the president called the War in Iraq a "crusade".
That's a Slogan a motto As it were, get real. When you say I kicked his Ass, does anyone really think you actually kicked him in the Ass. Bring your own examples.
As for pushing it down people's throats, we're not doing that. We're recognizing a government that was created after a toil of civil strife.
Is that what you call an Invasion and a War?
" Most countries in the world recognize Israel as a state.
Your point is what?
" Besides, why the hell do we owe the Muslims anything? Honestly - how do they deserve it anymore than the jews? All the Muslims have done for us (that I can recall) is that their extremist groups bomb us. "
Israel has Bombed enough people. The use Apache Heilos to carry out assassinations in the worlds most densely populated area. Menacum Began was a Terrorist himself in his younger days he bombed hotels patriot that he was.
What do we owe Arabs Nothing but we need their oil and they badly wish to sell it to us.
What is Fcuking that deal up Between our countries? You know the answer.
We dont need enemies we need oil
I won't speak old testaments terms, like we were here first, we're the chosen people and all this.
We are a nationality, we are a race that has a religion.
We're different in this than every nationality\race because we have our own religion.
The christinanity and islam tell people come and join me.
The Judaism don't, they don't want you. Few are the people who become Jews.
Haha, we bombed enough people???
We never bombed a populated area in Gaza or West Bank. NEVER.
Believe me, if we just wanted there were never "palestinians" (if you wanna call them that way) existed anymore.
It's all a load of bullshit that you read from UK news\palestinian sites\arabs in your country etc.
You have loads of european reporters that can report of such thing but they never did.
You know why??? because it's a load of bullshit that never happened.
What USA do in Iraq I can abselutely call a messacre.
You bomb Iraqis withiout recognition, have already killed 23,000 Iraqis in bombings.
Would you say it's because of car bombs? hahhaha. They wouldn't even get to 1,500 with car bombings.
It's just US that bring destruction and massacre the civilians there.
what makes the arabs so deserving of the land? why are they more important than the jews? One of the two groups can live with others, the other group want total submission. Who fought harder for the land?
BECUASE ITS THEIR'S? They lived there, always lived there, they are not from The USSR, Germanay, France the USA, they never left. Its there land. thats why.Flavius Aetius wrote:
what makes the arabs so deserving of the land? why are they more important than the jews? One of the two groups can live with others, the other group want total submission. Who fought harder for the land?
A brief history of Israel
================
The people of Israel (also called the "Jewish People") trace their origin to Abraham, who established the belief that there is only one God, the creator of the universe (see Old Testament). Abraham, his son Yitshak (Isaac), and grandson Jacob (Israel), are referred to as the patriarchs of the Israelites. All three patriarchs lived in the Land of Canaan, that later came to be known as the Land of Israel. They and their wives are buried in the Ma'arat HaMachpela, the Tomb of the Patriarchs, in Hebron.
The name Israel derives from the name given to Jacob (see Old Testament). His 12 sons were the kernels of 12 tribes that later developed into the Jewish nation. The name Jew derives from Yehuda (Judah) one of the 12 sons of Jacob. So, the names Israel, Israeli or Jewish refer to people of the same origin.
The descendants of Abraham crystallized into a nation at about 1300 BC after their Exodus from Egypt under the leadership of Moses (Moshe in Hebrew). Soon after the Exodus, Moses transmitted to the people of this new emerging nation, the Torah, and the Ten Commandments. After 40 years in the Sinai desert, Moses led them to the Land of Israel, that is cited in The Bible as the land promised by G-d to the descendants of the patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
The people of modern day Israel share the same language and culture shaped by the Jewish heritage and religion passed through generations starting with the founding father Abraham (ca. 1800 BC). Thus, Jews have had continuous presence in the land of Israel for the past 3,300 years.
The rule of Israelites in the land of Israel starts with the conquests of Joshua (ca. 1250 BCE). The period from 1000-587 BCE is known as the "Period of the Kings". The most noteworthy kings were King David (1010-970 BCE), who made Jerusalem the Capital of Israel, and his son Solomon (Shlomo, 970-931 BCE), who built the first Temple in Jerusalem as prescribed in the Tanach (Old Testament).
In 587 BCE, Babylonian Nebuchadnezzar's army captured Jerusalem, destroyed the Temple, and exiled the Jews to Babylon (modern day Iraq).
The year 587 BCE marks a turning point in the history of the region. From this year onwards, the region was ruled or controlled by a succession of superpower empires of the time in the following order: Babylonian, Persian, Greek Hellenistic, Roman and Byzantine Empires, Islamic and Christian crusaders, Ottoman Empire, and the British Empire.
Some of the countries that have ruled in Israel:
587BC Babalon Destruction of the First Templ
538-222BC Persian Return of the exiled Jews from Babylon and construction of the second Temple
333-63BC Helenistic Conquest of the region by the army of Alexander the Great (333 BCE). The Greeks generally allowed the Jews to run their state. But, during the rule of the king Antiochus IV, the Temple was desecrated. This brought about the revolt of the Maccabees, who established an independent rule.
63BC-313AD Roman The Roman army led by Titus conquered Jerusalem and destroyed the Second Temple at 70 CE. Jewish people were then exiled and dispersed to other parts of the world. Bar Kokhba organized a revolt against Roman rule, but was killed in a battle in Bethar in Judean Hills. Subsequently the Romans decimated the Jewish community, renamed Jerusalem as Aelia Capitolina and Judea as Palaestina to obliterate Jewish identification with the Land of Israel (the word Palestine, and the Arabic word Filastin originate from this Latin name). The remaining Jewish community moved to northern towns in the Galilee.
313-636 Byzantine
636-1099 Arab Dome of the Rock was built by Caliph Abd el-Malik on the grounds of the destroyed Jewish Temple.
1099-1291 Crusaders The crusaders came from Europe to capture the Holy Land following an appeal by Pope Urban II, and massacred the non-Christian population. Later Jewish community in Jerusalem expanded by immigration of Jews from Europe.
1291-1516 Malmuk
1516-1918 Ottoman During the reign of Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent (1520-1566) the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem were rebuilt. Population of the Jewish community in Jerusalem increased.
1917-1948 British Great Britain recognized the rights of the Jewish people to establish a "national home in Palestine". Yet they greatly curtailed entry of Jewish refugees into Israel even after World War II. They split Palestine mandate into an Arab state which has become the modern day Jordan, and Israel.
==================
My two cents:
When the Israelites originally settled the area it was known as Canaann about 1800BC. This area was actually much larger than what is now modern day Israel. Since there is no one claiming to want the land in the name of the Canaanites, I think that probably settles the argument as to who was there first.
I do not think that Israel, in it's current incarnation, could have been anywhere but where it is now. It is the histroic land of the Israelites (or whatever ancient name you want to give them).
--Now to the original question of this topic, "Do you think the World would be as Polarized if we had not, in 1947 Created a Nation in a Land that was already occupied for centuries?"
Maybe, maybe not. Seems like a cop, out answer, huh? The extremist muslims seem to have three major beefs with us. 1) Our support of Israel, 2) Our troops on any muslim soil and 3) Support of corrupt arab regimes (in their eyes). I am sure there are others. Now, if you take away #1, You still have #2 & #3 and since we still need their oil and for the region to remain somewhat stable, they would probably still have a problem with us. There are also the fanatics that believe that all non-muslims should convert or die. I think that things would have taken longer to get to the point we are at today, but we probably would have still gotten there.
Sorry for the long post,
Stargrove
BTW: The Israelites are Arabs
================
The people of Israel (also called the "Jewish People") trace their origin to Abraham, who established the belief that there is only one God, the creator of the universe (see Old Testament). Abraham, his son Yitshak (Isaac), and grandson Jacob (Israel), are referred to as the patriarchs of the Israelites. All three patriarchs lived in the Land of Canaan, that later came to be known as the Land of Israel. They and their wives are buried in the Ma'arat HaMachpela, the Tomb of the Patriarchs, in Hebron.
The name Israel derives from the name given to Jacob (see Old Testament). His 12 sons were the kernels of 12 tribes that later developed into the Jewish nation. The name Jew derives from Yehuda (Judah) one of the 12 sons of Jacob. So, the names Israel, Israeli or Jewish refer to people of the same origin.
The descendants of Abraham crystallized into a nation at about 1300 BC after their Exodus from Egypt under the leadership of Moses (Moshe in Hebrew). Soon after the Exodus, Moses transmitted to the people of this new emerging nation, the Torah, and the Ten Commandments. After 40 years in the Sinai desert, Moses led them to the Land of Israel, that is cited in The Bible as the land promised by G-d to the descendants of the patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
The people of modern day Israel share the same language and culture shaped by the Jewish heritage and religion passed through generations starting with the founding father Abraham (ca. 1800 BC). Thus, Jews have had continuous presence in the land of Israel for the past 3,300 years.
The rule of Israelites in the land of Israel starts with the conquests of Joshua (ca. 1250 BCE). The period from 1000-587 BCE is known as the "Period of the Kings". The most noteworthy kings were King David (1010-970 BCE), who made Jerusalem the Capital of Israel, and his son Solomon (Shlomo, 970-931 BCE), who built the first Temple in Jerusalem as prescribed in the Tanach (Old Testament).
In 587 BCE, Babylonian Nebuchadnezzar's army captured Jerusalem, destroyed the Temple, and exiled the Jews to Babylon (modern day Iraq).
The year 587 BCE marks a turning point in the history of the region. From this year onwards, the region was ruled or controlled by a succession of superpower empires of the time in the following order: Babylonian, Persian, Greek Hellenistic, Roman and Byzantine Empires, Islamic and Christian crusaders, Ottoman Empire, and the British Empire.
Some of the countries that have ruled in Israel:
587BC Babalon Destruction of the First Templ
538-222BC Persian Return of the exiled Jews from Babylon and construction of the second Temple
333-63BC Helenistic Conquest of the region by the army of Alexander the Great (333 BCE). The Greeks generally allowed the Jews to run their state. But, during the rule of the king Antiochus IV, the Temple was desecrated. This brought about the revolt of the Maccabees, who established an independent rule.
63BC-313AD Roman The Roman army led by Titus conquered Jerusalem and destroyed the Second Temple at 70 CE. Jewish people were then exiled and dispersed to other parts of the world. Bar Kokhba organized a revolt against Roman rule, but was killed in a battle in Bethar in Judean Hills. Subsequently the Romans decimated the Jewish community, renamed Jerusalem as Aelia Capitolina and Judea as Palaestina to obliterate Jewish identification with the Land of Israel (the word Palestine, and the Arabic word Filastin originate from this Latin name). The remaining Jewish community moved to northern towns in the Galilee.
313-636 Byzantine
636-1099 Arab Dome of the Rock was built by Caliph Abd el-Malik on the grounds of the destroyed Jewish Temple.
1099-1291 Crusaders The crusaders came from Europe to capture the Holy Land following an appeal by Pope Urban II, and massacred the non-Christian population. Later Jewish community in Jerusalem expanded by immigration of Jews from Europe.
1291-1516 Malmuk
1516-1918 Ottoman During the reign of Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent (1520-1566) the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem were rebuilt. Population of the Jewish community in Jerusalem increased.
1917-1948 British Great Britain recognized the rights of the Jewish people to establish a "national home in Palestine". Yet they greatly curtailed entry of Jewish refugees into Israel even after World War II. They split Palestine mandate into an Arab state which has become the modern day Jordan, and Israel.
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My two cents:
When the Israelites originally settled the area it was known as Canaann about 1800BC. This area was actually much larger than what is now modern day Israel. Since there is no one claiming to want the land in the name of the Canaanites, I think that probably settles the argument as to who was there first.
I do not think that Israel, in it's current incarnation, could have been anywhere but where it is now. It is the histroic land of the Israelites (or whatever ancient name you want to give them).
--Now to the original question of this topic, "Do you think the World would be as Polarized if we had not, in 1947 Created a Nation in a Land that was already occupied for centuries?"
Maybe, maybe not. Seems like a cop, out answer, huh? The extremist muslims seem to have three major beefs with us. 1) Our support of Israel, 2) Our troops on any muslim soil and 3) Support of corrupt arab regimes (in their eyes). I am sure there are others. Now, if you take away #1, You still have #2 & #3 and since we still need their oil and for the region to remain somewhat stable, they would probably still have a problem with us. There are also the fanatics that believe that all non-muslims should convert or die. I think that things would have taken longer to get to the point we are at today, but we probably would have still gotten there.
Sorry for the long post,
Stargrove
BTW: The Israelites are Arabs
Last edited by Stargrove (2006-01-31 22:18:44)