BF2S Forums Lest We Forget

CameronPoe wrote:

I was complaining about the blatant agenda in your 'tribute' - you honoured the WWII dead and Iraq War dead to give some kind of comparability between the causes: as if they were as noble and necessary a cause as each other. I was highlighting the fact that you highlighted these war dead but 'skipped over' those Americans who died in Panama, Grenada, Korea, Vietnam, etc. because they didn't fit your agenda.

But according to ATG Bush is to Baghdad as Truman is to Normandy  It's now an irrefutable fact.

Personally I view the situation more as a Bush is to Iraq as Johnson is to Vietnam.  Pictures of the Vietnam memorial would have been more appropriate. 

The best of intentions with the poorest of planning.

Masques wrote:

deeznutz1245 wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

If I had to guess, I'd say it was because you were a simpleton.  Also, maybe you aren't fond of beaches?  Lots of people dislike sand.  Oh, and you're overly violent, and use violence to avoid having to admit being shown wrong.  Um.........that about sums up my theories.

You didnt prove me wrong, I didnt say anything. Second, I happen to like beaches thank you very much. And third, I only become violent when I drink excesively and that usually follows reading your arrogant posts.

Do you get your jollies threatening people on an internet forum?

Just curious. It seems rather sad and tragic.

I have threatened nobody. I stated my desire. Read and interpret. For instance, you wrote "just curious". Now I could spin that around and ask, what are you curious about? Could it be your curious about being a pillow pirate? Dunno. Maybe you love man carrot, maybe not.

Reciprocity wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I was complaining about the blatant agenda in your 'tribute' - you honoured the WWII dead and Iraq War dead to give some kind of comparability between the causes: as if they were as noble and necessary a cause as each other. I was highlighting the fact that you highlighted these war dead but 'skipped over' those Americans who died in Panama, Grenada, Korea, Vietnam, etc. because they didn't fit your agenda.

But according to ATG Bush is to Baghdad as Truman is to Normandy  It's now an irrefutable fact.

Personally I view the situation more as a Bush is to Iraq as Johnson is to Vietnam.  Pictures of the Vietnam memorial would have been more appropriate. 

The best of intentions with the poorest of planning.

And the greatest misinterpretation by all of you.

CameronPoe wrote:

If I were a WWII vet and someone was trying to associate defeating the most evil tyrant this planet has ever seen (Hitler) with being the aggressor in a war of 'regime change' in a country that posed little or no threat to the US then I would feel very insulted.

CamPoe, You made me think of something I hadn't really thought of doing before and I appreciate that, you do make me think and that's a compliment, not a dig.  PS: I also gnash my teeth sometimes but hey, differing viewpoints and opinions are healthy.

I digress into ass kissery, let me resume my point...
I called my grandfather (who landed on Normandy during the opening hours of Operation Overlord) and asked him what he thought of the troops who had gone to the gulf, served in Iraq in OIF, comparing it to WWII, etc....

His reply was somewhat politically incorrect as women now serve too but eh, his generation had different views.

That reply..."God bless them boys".

Granted not all WWII Vets may think that...and my other grandfather who served has since passed so I only asked the one WWII Vet that I know...but suffice as to say your comment, while opinion, seems only to be inflammatory rather than provide a point.

I respect your opinion but don't think that serves as a point to support your position on the debate.

Last edited by 462nd NSP653 (2006-11-10 09:21:22)

Prayer List

  Please pray for the families and friends of the  fallen heroes listed below who gave this great country "the last full measure of devotion."

"Almighty God, Father of all mercies and giver of comfort, grant to all who mourn a sure confidence in thy Fatherly care, that, casting all their grief upon thee, they may know the consolation of thy love. In the Name of our Heavenly Father, Amen."

". . . It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."    --  Abraham Lincoln The Gettysburg Address November 19, 1863 Gettysburg, Pennsylvania

Lcpl Jordan D. Winkler                 US Marines                 26 Nov2004                 Iraq
Ph1 (Seal) David M. Tapper         US Navy                     20 Aug 2003              Afghanistan
Cpl David M. Frais US Army     A. Co 2/35 Inf               07 June 2004               Afghanistan
Msg Tom Hiner                         US Army                      13 Feb 2005               Iraq   
Lcpl Kyle W. Burns                    US Marines                   11 Nov 2004              Iraq   
Spc Jeffrey M. Wershow            US Army                      7/6/2003                    Iraq
Lt Nathan D. White                    US Navy                      2 Apr 2003                 Iraq   
Sgt. Maj. Barbaralien Banks       US Army                      6 Apr 2005                Afghanistan
Sgt Isela "Ruby" Rubalcaca         US Army                     8 May 2004               Mosul Iraq
Ssgt Patrick "Tico" Pentico      US Air Force                    31 Mar 2005              Albania
Spc Jose A. Velez                      US Army                       13 Nov 2004             Iraq   
Cpl Jason L. Dunham                 US Marines                  April 14 2004     
Ssg Ricky Allan Kieffer   US Army National Guard           15 March 2005           Iraq   
Spc Chad Fuller                         US Army                     31 Aug 2003              Afghanistan
Ssg Kristopher L. Shepherd        US Army                      11 Feb 2005                Iraq   
CWO Ian D. Manuel                    US Army                      8 Jan, 2004               Fallujah, Iraq   
Sgt Catalin D. Dima                    US Army                      13 Nov 2004              Iraq
Lcpl Kane M. Funke                    US Marines                   13 Aug 2004              Iraq
Cpt Humayun S Khan                 US Army                      8 Jun 2004                Baqubah Iraq
Cpt Luke C. Wullenwaber            US Army                    16 Nov 2004                 Iraq   
Sgt Jacob H. Demand                  US Army                    14 Sept 2004               Mosul Iraq
Sgt. Brad A. Wentz                     US Army                     20 May 2005              Iraq   
Hm3 David a Cedergren              US Navy                     11 Sep 2004               Iraq   
Po2 Robert Jenkins                     US Navy                       4/10/04                       Iraq
1lt Candace L Voegele                 US Army                   29 Apr 2004     
Ssg Clint Ferrin                           US Army                   13 Mar 2004                    Iraq   
Spc Clinton R. Gertson                US Army                    19 Feb 2005                  Mosul, Iraq
Lcpl Patrick T O'day                   US Marines                  25 Mar 2003                  Iraq
Pfc Lee Arthur Lewis Jr               US Army                    18 Mar 2005                  Iraq
Dc3 Nathan Bruckenthal         US Coast Guard              24 Apr 2004                  Iraq   
Lcpl Christopher S. Adlesperger  US Marines                  9 Dec 2004                  Fallujah Iraq
Spc. Michael A. Arciola                 US Army                  15 Feb 2005                Iraq   
Sgt Jamie Michalsky            US Army Reserves              23 Oct 2004               Afghanistan
Sgt Todd Venette                          US Marines              7 May 2005                       Iraq   
Cpl. Nathaniel T. Hammond            US Marines             8 Nov 2004                     Iraq   
Ssg Brian Scott Hobbs                  US Army                 14 Oct 2004                   Afghanistan   
Lcpl Kyle W. Codner                 US Marines               26 May 2004                     Iraq
Lcpl Larry Lloyd Wells US             Marines                  06 August 2004                  Iraq
Spc. Christopher M. Duffy  Army National Guard          04 June 2004                    Iraq
Spc. Joshua P. Dingler    Army National Guard             15 August 2005                  Iraq
Sgt. David Kreuter                     US Marines                 03 August 2005                Iraq
Sfc. Robert E. Rooney                US Army                  25 September 2003             Kuwait
Cpl. Joshua D. Palmer                   US Marines           0 8 November 2004              Iraq
Lcpl. Jeffrey Lam                          US Marines            08 November 2004              Iraq
Staff Sgt. Joel Dameron                US Marines            November 2005   
Cpl Christopher D. Winchester     US Marines              14 July 2005                          Iraq
Cpt Eric Bruce Das                 US Air Force                   07 April 2003                      Iraq
Sgt Jacob "JJ" Dones                   US Army                        20 October 2005               Iraq
Sfc  Tommy Ike Folks Jr.              US Army                      18 October 2005              Iraq
Lcpl Aaron Austin                         US Marines                  26 April 2004                    Iraq
Spc TJ Carillo                               US Army                    2005                                Iraq
David Reis                                   US Marines                   08 November 2004           Iraq
2Lt Luke S. James                       US Army                     27 January 2004                Iraq
Lcpl Seth Huston                         US Marines                    21 August                        Iraq
Spc James Pierce                    Army National Guard         04 July 2004   
Pfc Chad Eric Bales                     US Army                         03 April 2003                    Iraq
1Lt Derek S. Hines                        US Army                        01 September 2005      Afghanistan
Sgt Brandon James Thomas         US Army Special Forces                     07 May 2005    Iraq
Sgt Jeffrey R. Shaver                 Washington National Guard                12 May 2004   
Spc Daniel P. Unger                   Washington National Guard                 26 May 2004   
2Lt Andre D. Tyson                     Washington National Guard              22 June 2004   
Spc Jeremiah W. Schmunk              Washington National Guard             08 July 2004   
Spc Patrick R. McCaffrey             Washington National Guard                22 June 2004   
Spc Donald R. McCune II             Washington National Guard                 05 August 2004   
Sgt Qouc Tran                           Washington National Guard                07 November 2004   
Sfc Michael Ottolini                     Washington National Guard                 10 November 2004   
Sgt Damien T. Ficek                      Washington National Guard             30 December 2004   
Cpl Glenn J. Watkins                       Washington National Guard                05 April 2005   
Msgt Evander Andrews                US Air Force         10 October 2001                 Qatar
Ssgt Heathe N.Craig                      US Army            21 June 2006                   Afghanistan
Lcpl Thomas P. Echols                  US Marines           04 December 2006                 Iraq
Sgt Dale Brehm                      US Army Ranger       18 March 2006                      Iraq
Ssg Ricardo Barraza                 US Army Ranger     18 March 2006                      Iraq
Lcpl Luke Carney Yepsen             US Marines         14 December 2006                   Iraq
1Sg Christopher Conrad Rafferty  US Army            20 July 2006                       Afghanistan
Sgt  Cory R. Mracek                   US Army              27 January 2004                        Iraq
Pfc  Theodore M. "Coty" West       US Army            29 November 2006                    Iraq


Please contact Jan at usveterandispatch [at] earthlink [dot] net to add the name of a fallen hero to this prayer list.

Bubbalo wrote:

Wow, next thing you know private security guards will be heroes..........................

Only in Australia. Did you really see a guy waering a battle helmet on a cycle? That is pretty sweet.

deeznutz1245 wrote:

Bubbalo wrote:

Wow, next thing you know private security guards will be heroes..........................

Only in Australia.

Actually, come to think of it, I think the news did try that after a botched robbery, then found out that the guard they turned into a hero was actually the inside man.  I think.

God I hate this country sometimes.

deeznutz1245 wrote:

Did you really see a guy waering a battle helmet on a cycle? That is pretty sweet.

Yep.  Camo colours and a gold star, which I'm assuming is a Communist star since he was of Asian descent, could be wrong though.  He was riding on Station St, too, which I'd never do.  The roads I go down are bad enough.

Spark wrote:

He lives in Melbourne, so I wouldn't be surprised. You get some weird types coming out of there.

I think the guy was an international on a student visa, based on his appearance and the fact that it was in Box Hill (my high school had more internationals than locals in Senior School).  And besides, Sydney's the home of both John Howard and the largest Zoroastrian community outside of the Middle Easy, IIRC.

Spark wrote:

Then again, it's better than living in bloody inbred-mutant land (Tasmania)

Yeah, Tasmanians are even worse than gays.

ATG wrote:

The Earth is soaked red with all the blood Americans have shed for the world.

You make it sound like the world actually owes the US something. Russia lost ALLOT more soldiers than the US in the world wars. So I guess they communists have shed much more blood for the world than any other country. Like that matters anyway...

In Flanders Fields
By: Lieutenant Colonel John McCrae, MD (1872-1918)
Canadian Army
IN FLANDERS FIELDS the poppies blow
Between the crosses row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.



Let us remeber those who fought bravely, for freedom, that we too often take for granted.

R0lyP0ly wrote:

EVieira wrote:

ATG wrote:

The Earth is soaked red with all the blood Americans have shed for the world.

You make it sound like the world actually owes the US something. Russia lost ALLOT more soldiers than the US in the world wars. So I guess they communists have shed much more blood for the world than any other country. Like that matters anyway...

He's making a remembrance of American war dead, not saying the world owes us something. Furthermore, the then-USSR (/teensy bit of tsarist early WW1) was arguably not shedding blood for the world. It was for more self centered purposes, unlike a fair amount (like I said, a fair amount, not all) of US foreign aid, which genuinely goes to help those in need.

Also, take with a grain of salt {a small grain} statistics about Russian war dead as compared to US dead -- needless to say, the 2 have very different approaches to military engagements. Oh yeah, Russia really isn't Communist anymore, anyway, so referring to Russia as "communist" is like calling an American an Englishman, or an Australian (this is a bit of a tangent) Her Majesty's prisoner. (not entirely sure of the UK nomenclature for prisoners, sorry). It's Russia or even the Russian Federation, if you feel so inclined.

Interestingly, in terms of percentage population lost, the US lost very few people in WWII, there are only a couple of countries that lost a smaller percentages of their population. The UK got off relatively lightly as well.

R0lyP0ly wrote:

EVieira wrote:

ATG wrote:

The Earth is soaked red with all the blood Americans have shed for the world.

You make it sound like the world actually owes the US something. Russia lost ALLOT more soldiers than the US in the world wars. So I guess they communists have shed much more blood for the world than any other country. Like that matters anyway...

He's making a remembrance of American war dead, not saying the world owes us something. Furthermore, the then-USSR (/teensy bit of tsarist early WW1) was arguably not shedding blood for the world. It was for more self centered purposes, unlike a fair amount (like I said, a fair amount, not all) of US foreign aid, which genuinely goes to help those in need.

Also, take with a grain of salt {a small grain} statistics about Russian war dead as compared to US dead -- needless to say, the 2 have very different approaches to military engagements. Oh yeah, Russia really isn't Communist anymore, anyway, so referring to Russia as "communist" is like calling an American an Englishman, or an Australian (this is a bit of a tangent) Her Majesty's prisoner. (not entirely sure of the UK nomenclature for prisoners, sorry). It's Russia or even the Russian Federation, if you feel so inclined.

Brazil "shed blood for the world" also in WWII. But that doesn't make me think our soldiers are any more noble than the Russian's who died pushing the Nazi's back. It sickens me to see such arrogance, thinking one countrie's soldiers are more noble then others, where one "sheds blood for the world" the other is "more self-centered". By I guess I can blame Hollywood for that.

ATG wrote:

I think we can blame Hoolywood for your hatred of America. You probably watched platoon one too many times.

America fought allot, killed allot and lost allot. But not more than anyone else. But some americans don't get that. The "American hater" seems to be the standard argument here for when someone disagrees to any american related issue. Pretty pathetic...

About Hollywood, I recently watched Flags of our Fathers, great movie. Iwo Jima was unbelievable.

Well, it seems you guys like the Soviet Union army as much as Americans do theirs....

So, why don't you people go and make a thread called "Lest We Forget the Soviet Union"

Still not satisfied? Ok, you can make one for your country too.

There, were all happy.