BF2S Forums Lunar Outpost

I think its a good idea, but i don't think it should be a weaponised station.  We are bound to officially come into contact with extraterrestrial life.  And i think if they arrive peacefully and we great them with enough firepower to wipe out 1/2 an army, we might get on the wrong side.

R3v4n wrote:

I think its a good idea, but i don't think it should be a weaponised station.  We are bound to officially come into contact with extraterrestrial life.  And i think if they arrive peacefully and we great them with enough firepower to wipe out 1/2 an army, we might get on the wrong side.

THAT'S NO MOON!!1
THAT'S A SPACE STATION!!1111!!111

I certainly hope we base all our nukes on the moon, this way we can irradiate terrrrism from the safety of Earth's onry natural sattelite w/o ph33r of reprisal.

America, ftw.

confused wrote:

Way back people thought the earth was flat and the explorers who sailed from Europe would fall off the edge of the world.  Instead, they found North America.  While some might say that was the worst event to befall humanity, on the whole, I'd say it was for the better.  There no way to know if a moon station or manned exploration of Mars would be good or bad, but trying is always good. 

Our lives have been made better in many ways from experimentation and exploration.  Establishment of a small colony on Mars might lead to the key to solving all of our social ills.

Or it could be a huge waste of time and resources that could be spent on unmanned space exploration missions that have some scientific value.

Space exploration should be left to bleeping metal balls bristling with spectrometers for the forseeable future.

Didnt they find some sort of abandoned ancient pyramids and a fort on mars?

[CANADA]_Zenmaster wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Wish I could say 'duly ignored,' but anybody who thinks the space program(s) ha(s/ve) contributed nothing to our quality of life is delusional.

I can't even begin to say how stupid withdrawing from space exploration and expansion sounds.

(Besides which, the Borg are due shortly. Better kick things in gear.)

Today 13:19:35      +1      Lunar Outpost      you are a quasi-intellectual toolbox. +1'd

Riiiiiiight...

I didn't karma you so don't leap to conclusions. I do however concur with the karma. Ask an admin to verify it wasn't my karma if you wish.

Edit: I just realized I can karma you as a quasi-intellectual toolbox to prove the first wasn't mine. Enjoy your flame now at least you have "cause".

Yesterday 18:58:38      +1      Lunar Outpost      Heres proof I didn't karma you, you quasi-intellectual toolbox. -Zenmaster

LOL, you asshat, you're being so fucking paranoid. If I thought you'd done it, I'd have addressed you directly. As it was, I posted the anonymous karma on the comment that received it. Who's jumping to conclusions now, scooter?

I mean honestly, who the heck uses 'tool' (let alone 'toolbox') as an insult? It's about as stale as "your mom" retorts.

[edit]I suppose it's too late to karma you with a 'your mom' retort.[/edit]

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2007-03-07 22:10:52)

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

[CANADA]_Zenmaster wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Wish I could say 'duly ignored,' but anybody who thinks the space program(s) ha(s/ve) contributed nothing to our quality of life is delusional.

I can't even begin to say how stupid withdrawing from space exploration and expansion sounds.

(Besides which, the Borg are due shortly. Better kick things in gear.)

Riiiiiiight...

I didn't karma you so don't leap to conclusions. I do however concur with the karma. Ask an admin to verify it wasn't my karma if you wish.

Edit: I just realized I can karma you as a quasi-intellectual toolbox to prove the first wasn't mine. Enjoy your flame now at least you have "cause".

Yesterday 18:58:38      +1      Lunar Outpost      Heres proof I didn't karma you, you quasi-intellectual toolbox. -Zenmaster

LOL, you asshat, you're being so fucking paranoid. If I thought you'd done it, I'd have addressed you directly. As it was, I posted the anonymous karma on the comment that received it. Who's jumping to conclusions now, scooter?

I mean honestly, who the heck uses 'tool' (let alone 'toolbox') as an insult? It's about as stale as "your mom" retorts.

[edit]I suppose it's too late to karma you with a 'your mom' retort.[/edit]

You quoted me, your reply, and then stated your negative Karma as in cause and effect and you said nothing more. The obvious conclusion was that you thought it was from me. Moving on though...

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

R3v4n wrote:

I think its a good idea, but i don't think it should be a weaponised station.  We are bound to officially come into contact with extraterrestrial life.  And i think if they arrive peacefully and we great them with enough firepower to wipe out 1/2 an army, we might get on the wrong side.

Negative. A species capable of interstellar travel, even if they were interested enough in us to approach, would likely shrug off a blast from a slightly futuristic moon base as easily as a submarine would deflect a shark.

why would they come either armed or with defense capabilities?

PureFodder wrote:

confused wrote:

Way back people thought the earth was flat and the explorers who sailed from Europe would fall off the edge of the world.  Instead, they found North America.  While some might say that was the worst event to befall humanity, on the whole, I'd say it was for the better.  There no way to know if a moon station or manned exploration of Mars would be good or bad, but trying is always good. 

Our lives have been made better in many ways from experimentation and exploration.  Establishment of a small colony on Mars might lead to the key to solving all of our social ills.

Or it could be a huge waste of time and resources that could be spent on unmanned space exploration missions that have some scientific value.

Space exploration should be left to bleeping metal balls bristling with spectrometers for the forseeable future.

Good or bad, waste or not, its inevitable. Unless we manage to destroy ourselves before that, the same exploration instincts that drives humanity to discover new frontiers in science and technology will take us to the moon and beyond, the same way it took us to discover the New World.

Mmm, I'm not sure a moon base would be any more expensive than many of the things we do today.

Anyway, I think this is a brilliant idea. It's a nice advancement of us, not as a nation, but as a species. I'd live up there. I hope I'd have a window though, would be a shame to live underground and not have a beautiful view of the barren wasteland around me.

Karbin wrote:

Just a question for all of the posters so far.

How old are you?

Had you been even born when the "Space Race" was on?

I LIVED through that time.
I remember the WORLD stopped so we could watch the " One Small Step".
It was a time of INCREDIBLE optimism. The Human race could do anything.
And we stood is wonder of what we could do.

Do you think we feel that way now?

Should we go?  Hell. We should have had a CITY there by now!!!
The only reason we don't is the " Lets fix our problems here first" crowd.

You and yours can pay for that city then. Nice assumption in your final statement - the truth of the matter is a majority of scientists, eg the scientific community has agreed that for now money is better spent on probes and unmanned experiments. Given the current context of our world I don't disagree with them. Nobody says space exploration has to stop just that there is a better way to handle it right now given what is going on, and if you look around you, you will notice that is exactly what NASA, the European space agency, Japan, China, Russia, etc. are doing. They are not sending men into space because the return on that investment isn't worth it compared to the return we get from unmanned probes for now.

Basically you and yours on this forum saying we need a city/outpost/manned mission, who cares about money, etc, you are disagreeing not with just some douche bag (me), you are disagreeing with every space program around the world, and the scientific community behind them. Are you suggesting your way is better then the opinions of thousands of skilled workers whose opinions matter much more then us? We are being armchair politicians, and because of that we need to keep some perspective in view here. The fact is people have to face reality, not what they think would be a "good" idea. Yes the moon mission may have been an incredible opportunity for advancing optimism in America, building new technologies, advancing Americas global agenda etc., but it still had to be paid for. At the time it may have been well worth the cost, that is for Americans to decide. Personally, I would say it was worth it the first time.

To do it again right now though, with what is going on, is wasteful of resources and putting a crimp on the future of Americans (eg. your children and their children). You guys have what now, some disgusting x-billion or x-trillion dollar debt? You wana salt on some more debt for good measure or what? You guys are about to get raped by China and India and your kids are going to be fighting for a decent living and you think its a good idea to throw some money at the moon so you can be optimistic while your kids get raped by more ambitious and better educated Chinese, Indians, Japanese, Taiwanese, Norwegians, Swedish, Finnish, etc. (I FORGOT POLAND LOL) These countries, some big, some small, will sadly kick the pants off of us. I know all about it because I see it first hand. I'm 24 and am in 6th year Electrical Engineering so I am not a completely ignorant s.o.b., but you may feel free to disagree. I am the ONLY caucasian in most of my classes. The classes are largely dominated by Chinese, Taiwanese, a few Japanese, and a lot of east-indians. It seems the Nordic people prefer mechanical engineering, a few in software or hardware engineering etc. Anyways this is just what I've seen in engineering, if you look at other disciplines I am sure there is a variety of people from different countries taking over that market too. All you have to do is grab a book on China and you will see why, maybe throwing dollars at the moon isn't a good idea - that money is better spent retooling American industry so your kids have a chance at competing in a future. Then again that raises issues about a lot of the problems with American industry, and that is a whole new thread for DST so I won't go there.

[CANADA]_Zenmaster wrote:

Karbin wrote:

Just a question for all of the posters so far.

How old are you?

Had you been even born when the "Space Race" was on?

I LIVED through that time.
I remember the WORLD stopped so we could watch the " One Small Step".
It was a time of INCREDIBLE optimism. The Human race could do anything.
And we stood is wonder of what we could do.

Do you think we feel that way now?

Should we go?  Hell. We should have had a CITY there by now!!!
The only reason we don't is the " Lets fix our problems here first" crowd.

You and yours can pay for that city then. Nice assumption in your final statement - the truth of the matter is a majority of scientists, eg the scientific community has agreed that for now money is better spent on probes and unmanned experiments. Given the current context of our world I don't disagree with them. Nobody says space exploration has to stop just that there is a better way to handle it right now given what is going on, and if you look around you, you will notice that is exactly what NASA, the European space agency, Japan, China, Russia, etc. are doing. They are not sending men into space because the return on that investment isn't worth it compared to the return we get from unmanned probes for now.

Basically you and yours on this forum saying we need a city/outpost/manned mission, who cares about money, etc, you are disagreeing not with just some douche bag (me), you are disagreeing with every space program around the world, and the scientific community behind them. Are you suggesting your way is better then the opinions of thousands of skilled workers whose opinions matter much more then us? We are being armchair politicians, and because of that we need to keep some perspective in view here. The fact is people have to face reality, not what they think would be a "good" idea. Yes the moon mission may have been an incredible opportunity for advancing optimism in America, building new technologies, advancing Americas global agenda etc., but it still had to be paid for. At the time it may have been well worth the cost, that is for Americans to decide. Personally, I would say it was worth it the first time.

To do it again right now though, with what is going on, is wasteful of resources and putting a crimp on the future of Americans (eg. your children and their children). You guys have what now, some disgusting x-billion or x-trillion dollar debt? You wana salt on some more debt for good measure or what? You guys are about to get raped by China and India and your kids are going to be fighting for a decent living and you think its a good idea to throw some money at the moon so you can be optimistic while your kids get raped by more ambitious and better educated Chinese, Indians, Japanese, Taiwanese, Norwegians, Swedish, Finnish, etc. (I FORGOT POLAND LOL) These countries, some big, some small, will sadly kick the pants off of us. I know all about it because I see it first hand. I'm 24 and am in 6th year Electrical Engineering so I am not a completely ignorant s.o.b., but you may feel free to disagree. I am the ONLY caucasian in most of my classes. The classes are largely dominated by Chinese, Taiwanese, a few Japanese, and a lot of east-indians. It seems the Nordic people prefer mechanical engineering, a few in software or hardware engineering etc. Anyways this is just what I've seen in engineering, if you look at other disciplines I am sure there is a variety of people from different countries taking over that market too. All you have to do is grab a book on China and you will see why, maybe throwing dollars at the moon isn't a good idea - that money is better spent retooling American industry so your kids have a chance at competing in a future. Then again that raises issues about a lot of the problems with American industry, and that is a whole new thread for DST so I won't go there.

First. I am not a Yank.

Second. China at.al.
You could be right about your classes. Your in them, I'm not.
However, the ONLY reason your seeing a shift in production to those country's is
money....They will work for less. Don't have pension or health care plains that employer's
must pay into.
Bottom line......Corporate profits.

In North America the educational emphasis is on employment that will make large amounts of money.
Take a look at schools of Business, full classes. Schools of Law, full. Accounting and Economics.......
One of the spin-offs from the "Space Race" was the need for Skilled Trades and Engineering professionals.
Now these professions have a large shortage and are imported.
As to probes and robots.
From the start, this approach was advocated from the same quarters that you mentioned.
And you may get a "Better bang for your Bucks" this way but.........
By enlarge, the public that pays for it, has little interest in them.
How many know the number of robots on Mars right now? (no looking it up)
Where is the Cassini probe?
The name of the probe farthest away? Is it still sending a signal?

Now put a manned mission in the same place. Would you know then?

Last edited by Karbin (2007-03-10 05:19:46)

Moon Man

Building a lunar outpost would be beneficial.  As someone posted, it may be better to use the money to feed and educate our planet.  However if you look at the big picture,  The Earths population is growing at tremendous rates.  At this time we cannot feed, educate and cloth the entire Earths population.  Building a Lunar outpost would do two things: One it could be a re-fueling station for exploration to other parts of the solar system.  Two, it would provide an opportunity to build an outpost further out in the Solar system with lessons learned from the lunar outpost.  Just for God's sake don't let Haliburton build it.....

Last edited by GATOR591957 (2007-03-19 13:03:52)