superfly_cox
soup fly mod
+717|6984

CameronPoe wrote:

The Marshall Plan was one of the most selfless and benevolent gestures ever to grace the surface of the planet and Europe is thankful for that. But you can't live off one good deed for the rest of eternity.
I hope you know that we're not talking about just one deed.  If you really want I'll go through the list of all the reason why you, CameronPoe, should be grateful that the United States of America exists.

CameronPoe wrote:

Opinions change when they see things happening that they regard as immoral or reprehensible. Don't take this to heart or anything - I'm just explaining why the worlds opinion of the US has changed so dramatically.
And all I'm saying is that people are ungrateful and have a short memory.  I'm not defending US policy because the Iraq war has created more problems than it has solved.  To judge America based on the last five years of policy is to lose sight of the bigger picture which is that the US is still the same country with the same values and principles that it has been for the last 100 years...and overall I'd say that the world is better off for it.  So to those that think poorly of the US: pray to god that you never have to live in a world without American foreign policy.

CameronPoe wrote:

PS It's an item of clothing. Get over it.
if that's all it is then you're right and i'm over it.
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6570|Columbus, Ohio

Braddock wrote:

Exactly. My attitude in everyday life too. Mind your own business and you can't go too far wrong,
So, just for example, a "what if" situation.

China invades Taiwan.  They start killing all the males and raping the women.  Let's say the set up concentration camps.

So not doing anything about it is the right thing to do?
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6919

usmarine2007 wrote:

Braddock wrote:

Exactly. My attitude in everyday life too. Mind your own business and you can't go too far wrong,
So, just for example, a "what if" situation.

China invades Taiwan.  They start killing all the males and raping the women.  Let's say the set up concentration camps.

So not doing anything about it is the right thing to do?
That's a possible situation.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
SpaceApollyon
Scratch where it itches
+41|6722|Finland

usmarine2007 wrote:

Why didn't you guys go stop all the BS in Bosnia?  Why did you just sit back and wait?
Why aren't you in Africa trying to help?  Just sitting back and waiting again?

CameronPoe wrote:

Bosnia? ...all the UN have done is put a lid on ethnic tensions that are never going to go away. Violence will return to Bosnia believe you me - that battle has not been done and dusted. External intervention only delays the inevitable and breeds resentment.
QFE.

...just look at the Kosovo situation, the parties involved are miles apart in their thinking. Whatever peace we impose on them, its probably not gonna last. I believe it is NOT possible to suppress these tribal/religious/ethnic sources of hate with foreign military presence. As Cameron said, we can impose sanctions and pass judgement on them, but it will not take the hate away.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6758

usmarine2007 wrote:

Braddock wrote:

Exactly. My attitude in everyday life too. Mind your own business and you can't go too far wrong,
So, just for example, a "what if" situation.

China invades Taiwan.  They start killing all the males and raping the women.  Let's say the set up concentration camps.

So not doing anything about it is the right thing to do?
Pretty much. Blockade China and make it feel the pinch economically. Helping out militarily is stupid: Taiwan means nothing to you or me. I would offer them every humanitarian asssistance and maybe help out with getting arms to the resistance but I would not advocate military intervention. That problem is for the Taiwanese and the surrounding countries. You'd have to be pretty stupid to fuck with a nuclear superpower for a start. When the fight comes to your doorstep you respond.

PS Isn't that what Israel is doing in the West Bank as we speak (minus the raping women part):
- De facto annexation of land: check
- Steadily increasing Palestinian death toll (far in excess of any deaths inflicted on Israelis): check
- Internment without trial: check
- Sealing the West Bank borders - thus creating a giant economic blackspot open air 'concentration camp' akin to the Warsaw Ghetto: check
- Carving up the West Bank into cantons and preventing Palestinians from moving from area to area within the west bank - thus creating hundreds of smaller economic blackspot ghetto-like open air 'concentration camps': check

You seem to always offer your stock solution of the bullet and bomb for every situation imaginable.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-03-06 07:19:36)

usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6570|Columbus, Ohio

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

Braddock wrote:

Exactly. My attitude in everyday life too. Mind your own business and you can't go too far wrong,
So, just for example, a "what if" situation.

China invades Taiwan.  They start killing all the males and raping the women.  Let's say the set up concentration camps.

So not doing anything about it is the right thing to do?
That's a possible situation.
I know....but that is not the point TBH.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6493|Éire

Cameronpoe wrote:

PS Isn't that what Israel is doing in the West Bank as we speak (minus the raping women part).
Though the raping of women is not done on a widespread level it has happened. It happens in all conflicts sadly.

usmarine2007... many people see the US's aggressive actions in the middle east as something that deserves a response, hence 'terror' attacks against US targets. Citing your views on intervention in humanitarian issues would you not be inclined to agree with the right to react aggresively to US troops, I mean the US army are responsible for 1000's of deaths in Iraq.

Last edited by Braddock (2007-03-06 07:21:22)

Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6784|SE London

superfly_cox wrote:

How quickly people tend to forget things like:

1) WWI
2) WWII
3) Reconstruction of Europe/Japan
4) Cold War/Communism

Nothing the US has done in the past 15 years warrants a world poll that puts the USA in such negative company.

Look at all those countries that were polled and if you put their collective positive accomplishments from the past 100 years together you would no even come close to what the USA has done for modern civilization.

You want to disagree with US policy.  Fine.  But show some fucking respect and don't group em with Iran and North Korea cause its American money and blood which allows most of us around the world to be where we are today.
The US have done good things in the past, but what I object to is not merely the past few years of US foreign policy, but the last century of it. The military involvement of the US across the globe in matters that do not concern them is troubling, to say the least. If most other nations behaved in this way they would get a lot more bad press for it. The actions of the American military and intelligence services over the past century have, on the whole, been reprehensible and disturbingly frequent.

Zmag.org wrote:

HAWAII
1893 (-?)
Naval, troops
Independent kingdom overthrown, annexed.

NICARAGUA
1894
Troops
Month-long occupation of Bluefields.

CHINA
1894-95
Naval, troops
Marines land in Sino-Japanese War.

KOREA
1894-96
Troops
Marines kept in Seoul during war.

PANAMA
1895
Troops, naval
Marines land in Colombian province.

NICARAGUA
1896
Troops
Marines land in port of Corinto.

CHINA
1898-1900
Troops
Boxer Rebellion fought by foreign armies.

PHILIPPINES
1898-1910(-?)
Naval, troops
Seized from Spain, killed
600,000 Filipinos.

CUBA
1898-1902(-?)
Naval, troops
Seized from Spain, still hold Navy
base.

PUERTO RICO
1898(-?)
Naval, troops
Seized from Spain, occupation
continues.

GUAM
1898(-?)
Naval, troops
Seized from Spain, still use as base.

NICARAGUA
1898
Troops
Marines land at port of San Juan del Sur.

SAMOA
1899(-?)
Troops
Battle over succession to throne.

NICARAGUA
1899
Troops
Marines land at port of Bluefields.

PANAMA
1901-14
Naval, troops
Broke off from Colombia 1903, annexed Canal Zone 1914-99.

HONDURAS
1903
Troops
Marines intervene in revolution.

DOMINICAN REP.
1903-04
Troops
U.S. interests protected in Revolution.

KOREA
1904-05
Troops
Marines land in Russo-Japanese War.

CUBA
1906-09
Troops
Marines land in democratic election.

NICARAGUA
1907
Troops
"Dollar Diplomacy" protectorate set up.

HONDURAS
1907
Troops
Marines land during war with Nicaragua.

PANAMA
1908
Troops
Marines intervene in election contest.

NICARAGUA
1910
Troops
Marines land in Bluefields and Corinto.

HONDURAS
1911
Troops
U.S. interests protected in civil war.

CHINA
1911-41
Naval, troops
Continuous occupation with flare-ups.

CUBA
1912
Troops
U.S. interests protected in Havana.

PANAMA
19l2
Troops
Marines land during heated election.

HONDURAS
19l2
Troops
Marines protect U.S. economic interests.

NICARAGUA
1912-33
Troops, bombing
20-year occupation, fought guerrillas.

MEXICO
19l3
Naval
Americans evacuated during revolution.

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC
1914
Naval
Fight with rebels over Santo Domingo.

MEXICO
1914-18
Naval, troops
Series of interventions against
nationalists.

HAITI
1914-34
Troops, bombing
19-year occupation after revolts.

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC
1916-24
Troops
8-year Marine occupation.

CUBA
1917-33
Troops
Military occupation, economic protectorate.

WORLD WAR I
19l7-18
Naval, troops
Ships sunk, fought Germany

RUSSIA
1918-22
Naval, troops
Five landings to fight Bolsheviks.

PANAMA
1918-20
Troops
"Police duty" during unrest after elections.

YUGOSLAVIA
1919
Troops
Marines intervene for Italy against Serbs in Dalmatia.

HONDURAS
1919
Troops
Marines land during election campaign.

GUATEMALA
1920
Troops
2-week intervention against unionists.

TURKEY
1922
Troops
Fought nationalists in Smyrna (Izmir).

CHINA
1922-27
Naval, troops
Deployment during nationalist revolt.

HONDURAS
1924-25
Troops
Landed twice during election strife.

PANAMA
1925
Troops
Marines suppress general strike.

CHINA
1927-34
Troops
Marines stationed throughout the country.

EL SALVADOR
1932
Naval
Warships sent during Faribundo Marti revolt.

WORLD WAR II
1941-45
Naval,troops, bombing, nuclear
Fought Axis for 3
years; 1st nuclear war.

IRAN
1946
Nuclear threat
Soviet troops told to leave north (Iranian
Azerbaijan).

YUGOSLAVIA
1946
Naval
Response to shooting-down of U.S. plane.

URUGUAY
1947
Nuclear threat
Bombers deployed as show of strength.

GREECE
1947-49
Command operation
U.S. directs extreme-right in civil
war.

CHINA
1948-49
Troops
Marines evacuate Americans before Communist victory.

GERMANY
1948
Nuclear threat
Atomic-capable bombers guard Berlin Airlift.

PHILIPPINES
1948-54
Command operation
CIA directs war against Huk
Rebellion.

PUERTO RICO
1950
Command operation
Independence rebellion crushed in
Ponce.

KOREA
1950-53
Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats
U.S.&
South Korea fight China & North Korea to stalemate; A-bomb threat in 1950, & vs. China in 1953. Still have bases.

IRAN
1953
Command operation
CIA overthrows democracy, installs Shah.

VIETNAM
1954
Nuclear threat
Bombs offered to French to use against
siege.

GUATEMALA
1954
Command operation, bombing, nuclear threat CIA directs exile invasion after new gov't nationalizes U.S. company lands; bombers based in Nicaragua.

EGYPT
1956
Nuclear threat, troops
Soviets told to keep out of Suez crisis; MArines evacuate foreigners

LEBANON
1958
Troops, naval
Marine occupation against rebels.

IRAQ
1958
Nuclear threat
Iraq warned against invading Kuwait.

CHINA
1958
Nuclear threat
China told not to move on Taiwan isles.

PANAMA
1958
Troops
Flag protests erupt into confrontation.

VIETNAM
1960-75
Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats Fought South Vietnam revolt & North Vietnam; 1-2 million killed in longest U.S. war; atomic bomb threats in 1968 and 1969.

CUBA
1961
Command operation CIA-directed exile invasion fails.

GERMANY
1961
Nuclear threat Alert during Berlin Wall crisis.

CUBA
1962
Nuclear threat
Naval
Blockade during missile crisis; near-war with USSR.

LAOS
1962
Command operation
Military buildup during guerrilla war.

PANAMA
1964
Troops
Panamanians shot for urging canal's return.

INDONESIA
1965
Command operation Million killed in CIA-assisted army coup.

DOMINICAN REPUBLIC
1965-66
Troops, bombing Marines land during election campaign.

GUATEMALA
1966-67
Command operation Green Berets intervene against rebels.

CAMBODIA
1969-75
Bombing, troops, naval Up to 2 million killed in decade of  bombing, starvation, and political chaos.

OMAN
1970
Command operation U.S. directs Iranian marine invasion.

LAOS
1971-73
Command operation, bombing U.S. directs South Vietnamese invasion; "carpet-bombs" countryside.

SOUTH DAKOTA
1973
Command operation Army directs Wounded Knee siege of Lakotas.

MIDEAST
1973
Nuclear threat World-wide alert during Mideast War.

CHILE
1973
Command operation CIA-backed coup ousts elected marxist president.

CAMBODIA
1975
Troops, bombing Gas captured ship, 28 die in copter crash.

ANGOLA
1976-92
Command operation CIA assists South African-backed rebels.

IRAN
1980
Troops, nuclear threat, aborted bombing Raid to rescue Embassy hostages;  8 troops die in copter-plane crash. Soviets warned not to get involved in revolution.

LIBYA
1981
Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down in maneuvers.

EL SALVADOR
1981-92
Command operation, troops Advisors, overflights aid anti-rebel war, soldiers briefly involved in hostage clash.

NICARAGUA
1981-90
Command operation, naval CIA directs exile (Contra) invasions,  plants harbor mines against revolution.

LEBANON
1982-84
Naval, bombing, troops Marines expel PLO and back Phalangists,  Navy bombs and shells Muslim and Syrian positions.

HONDURAS
1983-89
Troops
Maneuvers help build bases near borders.

GRENADA
1983-84
Troops, bombing Invasion four years after revolution.

IRAN
1984
Jets
Two Iranian jets shot down over Persian Gulf.

LIBYA
1986
Bombing, naval Air strikes to topple nationalist gov't.

BOLIVIA
1986
Troops Army assists raids on cocaine region.

IRAN
1987-88
Naval, bombing US intervenes on side of Iraq in war.

LIBYA
1989
Naval jets Two Libyan jets shot down.

VIRGIN ISLANDS
1989
Troops
St. Croix Black unrest after storm.

PHILIPPINES
1989
Jets
Air cover provided for government against coup.

PANAMA
1989-90
Troops, bombing
Nationalist government ousted by 27,000 soldiers, leaders arrested, 2000+ killed.

LIBERIA
1990
Troops
Foreigners evacuated during civil war.

SAUDI ARABIA
1990-91
Troops, jets Iraq countered after invading Kuwait; 540,000 troops also stationed in Oman, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Israel.

IRAQ
1990-?
Bombing, troops, naval Blockade of Iraqi and Jordanian ports, air strikes; 200,000+ killed in invasion of Iraq and Kuwait; no-fly zone over Kurdish north, Shiite south,   large-scale destruction of Iraqi military.

KUWAIT
1991
Naval, bombing, troops Kuwait royal family returned to throne.

SOMALIA
1992-94
Troops, naval, bombing U.S.-led United Nations occupation during civil war; raids against one Mogadishu faction.

YUGOSLAVIA
1992-94
Naval
Nato blockade of Serbia and Montenegro.

BOSNIA
1993-95
Jets, bombing No-fly zone patrolled in civil war; downed jets, bombed Serbs.

HAITI
1994-96
Troops, naval
Blockade against military government; troops restore President Aristide to office three years after coup.

CROATIA
1995
Bombing
Krajina Serb airfields attacked before Croatian offensive.

ZAIRE (CONGO)
1996-97
Troops
Marines at Rwandan Hutu refuge camps, in area where Congo revolution begins.

LIBERIA
1997
Troops
Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.

ALBANIA
1997
Troops
Soldiers under fire during evacuation of foreigners.

SUDAN
1998
Missiles
Attack on pharmaceutical plant alleged to be "terrorist" nerve gas plant.

AFGHANISTAN
1998
Missiles
Attack on former CIA training camps used by Islamic fundamentalist groups alleged to have attacked embassies.

IRAQ
1998-?
Bombing, Missiles
Four days of intensive air strikes after weapons inspectors allege Iraqi obstructions.

YUGOSLAVIA
1999-?
Bombing, Missiles
Heavy NATO air strikes after Serbia declines to withdraw from Kosovo.

MACEDONIA
2001
Troops
NATO troops shift and partially disarm Albanian rebels.

AFGHANISTAN
2001
Massive U.S. mobilization to attack Taliban, Bin Laden. War could expand to Iraq, Sudan, and beyond.
It's all just too much interference. The US is too concerned with trying to control the whole world and make it work the way they want. That is not what the inhabitants of other countries want, they want their own country, not some offshoot of America.

That is why foreign perceptions of the US are so bad.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6758
Nice summary Bertster. Another point: these advocates of US intervention seem to ignore the areas of the world one would imagine are crying out for US intervention, mainly in Africa. And yet the US is disinterested at best.
Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|6849

Braddock wrote:

Cameronpoe wrote:

PS Isn't that what Israel is doing in the West Bank as we speak (minus the raping women part).
usmarine2007... many people see the US's aggressive actions in the middle east as something that deserves a response, hence 'terror' attacks against US targets.
Terrorists kill innocent civilians and you try to find justification by somehow calling it the U.S. governments fault?
superfly_cox
soup fly mod
+717|6984

It seems you've listed every military operation whether its relevant or not just so you can post a really long list.  How about listing wars they have been involved in instead of every military transport that touched down in a foreign country?

Make a similar list for the United Nations and your list would be three times as long...but that doesn't necessarily make it a war mongering organization. 

Bertster7 wrote:

It's all just too much interference. The US is too concerned with trying to control the whole world and make it work the way they want. That is not what the inhabitants of other countries want, they want their own country, not some offshoot of America.

That is why foreign perceptions of the US are so bad.
You know what, you're absolutely right, the US does want to impose their ideology of liberal democracy and trans-atlantic values on others.  And exactly how do you know what the inhabitants of other countries want? Have you ever lived in a communist country or a country ruled by a dictator to know what the inhabitants of those countries want?  There are 12 new countries in the European Union who would disagree with you about America's desire to shape the world according to their ideology.

I'm not naive to think that the US is this ultra altruistic entity that just wants to spread peace and democracy.  There are national interests involved.  But overall the world is a better place because of American policy in the last 100 years.  Appreciate that even if you disagree with the war in Iraq.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6758

superfly_cox wrote:

You know what, you're absolutely right, the US does want to impose their ideology of liberal democracy and trans-atlantic values on others.  And exactly how do you know what the inhabitants of other countries want? Have you ever lived in a communist country or a country ruled by a dictator to know what the inhabitants of those countries want?  There are 12 new countries in the European Union who would disagree with you about America's desire to shape the world according to their ideology.

I'm not naive to think that the US is this ultra altruistic entity that just wants to spread peace and democracy.  There are national interests involved.  But overall the world is a better place because of American policy in the last 100 years.  Appreciate that even if you disagree with the war in Iraq.
Latin America and the middle east is NOT a better place as a result of American meddling. And that goes back beyond the current presidency.

Liberal democracies and trans-atlantic values don't fit with all cultures soup. Not to mention the fact that the US don't like democracies who don't bend to their will (Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua, etc.). We are not all on the same page on this planet. Imposing YOUR values on others is pretentious and condescending.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-03-06 09:21:37)

Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6784|SE London

superfly_cox wrote:

It seems you've listed every military operation whether its relevant or not just so you can post a really long list.  How about listing wars they have been involved in instead of every military transport that touched down in a foreign country?
Actually I've left quite a few off that list, it should be a bit longer than that.

superfly_cox wrote:

Make a similar list for the United Nations and your list would be three times as long...but that doesn't necessarily make it a war mongering organization.
Perhaps, I'm not sure though.
In any case, with a UN listing you would not find cases of century long occupations, annexation of teritory and intervention in democratic elections. Things which don't fit perfectly in with your view of America as an infinitely benign power.

superfly_cox wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

It's all just too much interference. The US is too concerned with trying to control the whole world and make it work the way they want. That is not what the inhabitants of other countries want, they want their own country, not some offshoot of America.

That is why foreign perceptions of the US are so bad.
You know what, you're absolutely right, the US does want to impose their ideology of liberal democracy and trans-atlantic values on others.  And exactly how do you know what the inhabitants of other countries want? Have you ever lived in a communist country or a country ruled by a dictator to know what the inhabitants of those countries want?
Nope, I've never lived in a communist country or under a dictator. I do however, have several friends from Iraq who spent many years living under Saddams regime, I have family in Iran and I went out with a girl from Beijing for quite a while. Since I take an interest in such matters I have always been keen to find out what their perspective of the situations in their countries is and from that I think I have gained some insight into the mindset of people in such countries.

superfly_cox wrote:

There are 12 new countries in the European Union who would disagree with you about America's desire to shape the world according to their ideology.

I'm not naive to think that the US is this ultra altruistic entity that just wants to spread peace and democracy.  There are national interests involved.  But overall the world is a better place because of American policy in the last 100 years.  Appreciate that even if you disagree with the war in Iraq.
It really isn't as simple as that. It is impossible to say what would have happened without all this US interference, but it is naive to think that the positive effects outweigh the negatives by that much. Almost all the threats to global security today stem from prior US interference.
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6745|Texas - Bigger than France
Damnit I hate it when US gets beat on anything.
CaptainMike
It's just a flesh wound
+45|6847|Canada
Yay we win!

But getting to business...

superfly_cox wrote:

How quickly people tend to forget things like:

1) WWI
2) WWII
3) Reconstruction of Europe/Japan
4) Cold War/Communism

Nothing the US has done in the past 15 years warrants a world poll that puts the USA in such negative company.

Look at all those countries that were polled and if you put their collective positive accomplishments from the past 100 years together you would no even come close to what the USA has done for modern civilization.

You want to disagree with US policy.  Fine.  But show some fucking respect and don't group em with Iran and North Korea cause its American money and blood which allows most of us around the world to be where we are today.
The US wasn't the only country that contributed in all of those four points, other countries were there too, and some played a larger role than the US.
Let's look at WWI, when the US came into the war 3 years after it started. Yes you helped win, but your sacrifice can not be compared to those of other countries. Example, the UK lost 1,177,138 men, France lost 1,897,800 men, meanwhile the US only lost 117,465 men. Though in WWII you contribued a large percent, though there were still countries who made a larger sacrifice.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the US, I respect them as I do others. It's just that for many people outside the US disagree with Americans. For example, many see no point to the Invasion of Iraq and therefore would vote negatively.

Ultimately it is just a "I don't like what they are doing, so I'm not going to vote for them" and "My country is better" poll.
deeznutz1245
Connecticut: our chimps are stealin yo' faces.
+483|6695|Connecticut

CameronPoe wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

The US has acted very reprehensibly of late, wiping out decades of goodwill almost instantly.
Yes, those damn US suicide bombers.
That's right - it's more 'moral' accurate and effective if you do the bombing from 10,000ft up in the air. Silly me.
Forgiven.
Malloy must go
rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|6763

usmarine2007 wrote:

Ireland
Agreed, but only for the extra twenty pounds of Guinness I'm carrying in my belly.
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6867|NT, like Mick Dundee

Invaderzim wrote:

Flecco wrote:

We have a bad rep. as international travellers... See below for reason.

we're in ur countries, stealin' ur alcohols!

Nah, it's because we are so close to the US... and general arrogance (you think Americans are arrogant... BAHAHAHA!).
I tend to dissagree, I went on a tour in Germany and they sppke in GErman the whole time and abused us because they thought we were American. When we finished the tour we said we're Australian and they acctualy gave us our money back coz they were being suck fucktards towards us.
I was joking, I've travelled internationally before. Always was recieved very well once I explained where I was born and grew up. Crocodile Dundee has made the area I call home pretty popular (NT, Aus FTW!).
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
weamo8
Member
+50|6645|USA
In a world full of such confused whiners and uber-liberal hacks, I am pleased as punch (as they say) that the US has a negative image.  I have never been so proud to be an American.

(We may have a negative image, but when someone is in trouble, who is the first nation they come crawling to?)
Nyte
Legendary BF2S Veteran
+535|6955|Toronto, ON
I support Hitler... Up to the point where he started up those concentration camps.
Alpha as fuck.
Stormscythe
Aiming for the head
+88|6752|EUtopia | Austria

weamo8 wrote:

In a world full of such confused whiners and uber-liberal hacks, I am pleased as punch (as they say) that the US has a negative image.  I have never been so proud to be an American.
How many other people would you grant the right to say they are proud about their country being talked about badly?

weamo8 wrote:

We may have a negative image, but when someone is in trouble, who is the first nation they come crawling to?
Not a nation, usually their problem is taken care of by the UN, the UN tries to pressurize the aggressors/misfitting with charges weakening their economy, forcing them to obey, they DON'T obey and after that someone will intervene.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6758

weamo8 wrote:

In a world full of such confused whiners and uber-liberal hacks, I am pleased as punch (as they say) that the US has a negative image.  I have never been so proud to be an American.

(We may have a negative image, but when someone is in trouble, who is the first nation they come crawling to?)
I think you'll find they go to the uber-pointless UN first, as pointed out by StormScythe.
superfly_cox
soup fly mod
+717|6984

Bertster7 wrote:

superfly_cox wrote:

You know what, you're absolutely right, the US does want to impose their ideology of liberal democracy and trans-atlantic values on others.  And exactly how do you know what the inhabitants of other countries want? Have you ever lived in a communist country or a country ruled by a dictator to know what the inhabitants of those countries want?
Nope, I've never lived in a communist country or under a dictator. I do however, have several friends from Iraq who spent many years living under Saddams regime, I have family in Iran and I went out with a girl from Beijing for quite a while. Since I take an interest in such matters I have always been keen to find out what their perspective of the situations in their countries is and from that I think I have gained some insight into the mindset of people in such countries.
Well I was born in a communist country and I must remark you've got no idea about this subject.   You have never seen the real depths of tyranny and abuse that exist in this world because you get all your information second hand.  Go ahead and bash the US for every mistake they make and all the places where they've screwed up.  Feel free to ignore all the people they've helped and their contributions to modern democracy and stability.  Its okay because that is what your freedoms and liberties are for, whether you appreciate how you got to have them or not.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6758

superfly_cox wrote:

Well I was born in a communist country and I must remark you've got no idea about this subject.   You have never seen the real depths of tyranny and abuse that exist in this world because you get all your information second hand.  Go ahead and bash the US for every mistake they make and all the places where they've screwed up.  Feel free to ignore all the people they've helped and their contributions to modern democracy and stability.  Its okay because that is what your freedoms and liberties are for, whether you appreciate how you got to have them or not.
I'm well aware of the US contribution to keeping the western world free from communism but you seem to believe they are single handedly responsible for 'freedom' full stop. You think Europe won't fight for their freedom if it is threatened? Do you think the Brits, Poles, Czechs, Chinese and others didn't fight for their freedom in WWII? You seem to be going too far to the extreme of letting American indiscretions go without any form of critical appraisal simply for the fact that they've done some good in the past.
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6570|Columbus, Ohio

CameronPoe wrote:

You seem to be going too far to the extreme of letting American indiscretions go without any form of critical appraisal simply for the fact that they've done some good in the past.
My god dude.  You act like we carpet bombed Iraq and leveled the country, then just left them to die and rot away.

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