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2006-01-11 15:51:46
GeoEnvi
Member
+22|6835|Philadelphia, PA
You forgot the most important point.  When the engineers aren't busy repairing the bird, they should be tossing out landmines and nades over enemy flags.  Every time the get resupplied by the Pilot (support kit), he gets more team points. 

If you're gonna whore it up... do it the best you can!
2006-01-12 15:30:57
Lawk
Member
+2|6923

Skruples wrote:

Lawk wrote:

Johnthegreg wrote:

No, no and NO!  The blackhawk is reserved for clan members to fly around racking up points even at the cost of losing the round.  If you get in "Bail Out!", "Bail Out!", or you will most likley get tked for your mistaken belief that the B.H. is going to be used to help win.  If you shoot down the B.H. full of clan members you will find yourself kicked from the server, even if you are on the opposing team.  The B.H. is for points whoring only!  It has no place in team play, and for anyone to try to use it in the fashion stated by Tarthkin is blasphemy!
Nope.  Killing the enemy helps your team.  So does not dying.  A good chopper squad will have zero deaths at the end of the round and many kills.
Apparently Lawk lives in a sarcasm free zone.
You suck at sarcasm.  <----------Not sarcastic
2006-01-12 21:58:05
comfort
Member
+1|6909
While I agree (mostly) with your BH strategy, I'll disagree with the premise of a good pilot making it unstoppable.  For the last month I've almost exclusively played Mashtuur, with the express interest of taking down BH squads...and I've risen to the top 40 in global transport kills in doing so.

With minimal teamwork, taking down the BH is actually one of the easiest things to do in Mashtuur.  With 1 partner, we routinely take it down in no more than 5 seconds.  With 2 partners, about 3 seconds.
2006-01-12 22:51:37
tthf
Member 5307
+210|6906|06-01
i joined an mec squad that was name Anti-BH on game arena last night.
spent the mashtuur rounds attacking the BH flag.
fun stuff
2006-01-12 22:53:01
BeforeGod
Member
+0|6963|British Columbia

Tarthkin wrote:

i dont think one hit from a tank kills a BH.
Oh God I can't wait for that patch...
2006-01-12 23:36:55
VeNg3nCe^
¦Tactics Øver Principles¦
+314|6854|Antarctica

Tarthkin wrote:

Feel free to add anything you felt I missed
That would take me several days to write, so I wont bother :-P
2006-01-12 23:49:03
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|6986
A really good post i thought. However may I add never aproach a flag head on Crab up to it so your gunners can Rake it. than circle.... and High!
2006-01-13 10:34:32
Tarthkin
Member
+-1|6911

VeNg3nCe^ wrote:

That would take me several days to write, so I wont bother :-P
so whats your point of posting?  Why not enlighten us with your knowlage, unless you have none.

As far as the ease of talking down a BH, comfort, I think i was playing against you last night and your team was haveing a very easy time dealing with the BH simply by placing vodniks around the map and unloading.  If the MEC chopper pilot is pretty good at the C4 drop runs over the BH spawn point than all the MEC team has to do is take out one BH and then another one will never get off the ground.
2006-01-13 10:39:01
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|6986

VeNg3nCe^ wrote:

Tarthkin wrote:

Feel free to add anything you felt I missed
That would take me several days to write, so I wont bother :-P
yes! we believe you. we really do. we all do. Thats why you dont post. you just havn't the time to extoll all your knowledge. oh well some day maybe, tell then its our loss. Sniff sniff
2006-01-13 10:43:31
imdead
Death StatPadder
+228|6918|Human Meat Shield
wow.... and no infantry noticed these vodniks?? must've been invisible vodniks, or small server. I usually notice these vods parked and waiting for the BH and it's easy kill on foot or AT. If you can get your MEC shitbag in the air before the BH and higher I can see your point on the C4 drop. But on full servers 64 all I see is the Jihad. So maybe I should visit the non-full servers to experience this. Again, not saying it can't be done, but it is very rare in the full servers I play.
2006-01-13 11:35:27
nating75
Member
+0|6926
I've seen way too many rounds where full squads get into the BH and we loose because those ass clowns aren't pulling their weight.

Let's take a look at your loadout:

1 support class in the gunner or pilot position
2 medics in the remaining gunner/pilot position
3 Engineers in the back cranking away

first off the pilot does nothing -> no kills
2 guys on the gun -> only one is effective at all times. On average 30 kills max for the pair.
3 engys doing nothing -> no kills

so you've taken 6 men and only the output will average 30 kills

5 kills per man will loose you the round.  Especially since the guys on the ground are now outnumbered by 6 men. Full BH's are never a good idea. A more realistic loadout is:

1 pilot -> medic
2 gunners -> both engys

The man on the "bad" side has to get off the gun and repair the heli. They switch off. When it gets really heated they both get off and repair.

Anyone spawning should eject as soon as possible and help the ground forces.

Now we are averaging 10 kills per man plus your troops on the ground are only out numbered by 3.

Last edited by nating75 (2006-01-13 11:37:07)

2006-01-13 12:56:39
GeoEnvi
Member
+22|6835|Philadelphia, PA
You are absolutely wrong about the engineers serving no function other than reparing.  They can toss AT mines and chuck grenades just as easily as using a wrench. 

For added fun, get an AT kit to launch rockets. 

Finishing the crew with a support or two on the miniguns and you have a mobile fortress and point machine.  the pilot will ROUTINELY earn 100+ in teamwork.  The minigun support crew will often top 120+ and the engineers can pull in 30 to 50 points. 

Still, I agree that you don't want to take away most of your ground forces just to whore it up in the chopper.  The war need ground pounders too!
2006-01-13 14:05:13
JeeSqwat
Tactical Specialist
+41|6877|Canada
I use the blk hawk how ever i want............so stfu  kkkk
2006-01-13 14:19:43
nating75
Member
+0|6926

GeoEnvi wrote:

You are absolutely wrong about the engineers serving no function other than reparing.  They can toss AT mines and chuck grenades just as easily as using a wrench. 

For added fun, get an AT kit to launch rockets. 

Finishing the crew with a support or two on the miniguns and you have a mobile fortress and point machine.  the pilot will ROUTINELY earn 100+ in teamwork.  The minigun support crew will often top 120+ and the engineers can pull in 30 to 50 points. 

Still, I agree that you don't want to take away most of your ground forces just to whore it up in the chopper.  The war need ground pounders too!
Points great!!!!!!!!!! What does that have to do with tickets and winning the round. I'm not saying BH's don't serve purpose. But, fill one of those up and you're hurting the team. The bottom line is that teamwork points don't win, tickets do. Hold flags and kill the enemy and you will win. So unless you can hold enough flags with a blackhawk to stop your ticket loss, having 6 guys in it is a waste.

Last edited by nating75 (2006-01-13 14:30:29)

2006-01-13 14:21:46
Torin
Member
+52|6841
The most annoying part of piloting the BH on Mashtuur is having the Tub follow you around the map, crashing into you and giving you 5 team damage and 5 team kills for a whopping -30 team points per crash. Makes you want to stop piloting REAL quick.

But on a good run I've received around 140 points just for piloting. Spec-ops is probably the best non-engineer slot for the 3 rear seats, as it lets you clear out infantry below the BH that the gunners can neither see nor hit. Mines should be used sparingly I think because of how hard it is to lay one directly in the path of a tank you're flying over. And a badly placed mine is just a TK in waiting. C4 at least you can detonate and know someone won't accidentally be TK'd by it later.

I think the best configuration is 1 supply, 2 medics, 2 spec-ops and 1 engineer (in seat 4). If you have good gunners and a good pilot, 1 engineer should be plenty to keep you up, even with Vodniks and Humvees shooting at you. Spot the Vodnik, rotate to give a gunner a constant line of sight, and goodbye Vodnik. The only BHs that die to a Vodnik are ones that don't know where the Vodnik is and can't return fire.

One of the most key things to running a good BH crew is making at least the 3 back seaters bail out of the chopper to help capping flags. The one thing I refuse to do as a BH pilot is sit still hovering over a flag, capturing it by myself. That's just waiting for a T90 to drop me out of the sky.

I've had many 300 tickets rounds end between 250-280 tickets because of a well coordinated BH crew.
2006-01-13 14:35:26
nating75
Member
+0|6926

Torin wrote:

The most annoying part of piloting the BH on Mashtuur is having the Tub follow you around the map, crashing into you and giving you 5 team damage and 5 team kills for a whopping -30 team points per crash. Makes you want to stop piloting REAL quick.

But on a good run I've received around 140 points just for piloting. Spec-ops is probably the best non-engineer slot for the 3 rear seats, as it lets you clear out infantry below the BH that the gunners can neither see nor hit. Mines should be used sparingly I think because of how hard it is to lay one directly in the path of a tank you're flying over. And a badly placed mine is just a TK in waiting. C4 at least you can detonate and know someone won't accidentally be TK'd by it later.

I think the best configuration is 1 supply, 2 medics, 2 spec-ops and 1 engineer (in seat 4). If you have good gunners and a good pilot, 1 engineer should be plenty to keep you up, even with Vodniks and Humvees shooting at you. Spot the Vodnik, rotate to give a gunner a constant line of sight, and goodbye Vodnik. The only BHs that die to a Vodnik are ones that don't know where the Vodnik is and can't return fire.

One of the most key things to running a good BH crew is making at least the 3 back seaters bail out of the chopper to help capping flags. The one thing I refuse to do as a BH pilot is sit still hovering over a flag, capturing it by myself. That's just waiting for a T90 to drop me out of the sky.

I've had many 300 tickets rounds end between 250-280 tickets because of a well coordinated BH crew.
I agree a specop could help using their C4. good point.
2006-01-13 15:32:46
00Colburn
Member
+2|6857|The Dorf, MD
Mastur is a pilots wet dream waiting to happen...  In short order I'll break it down for you, but first of all I am not #1 in BHs, but pretty good.  Never had a round as pilot with less than 100 pts, and usually get 120+.

1 - Don't cap the SW flag, a good MEC team will be able to C4 spam the shit out of any place they want because their chopper is setup better for that, and anyone who has be around a CP wasting clip after clip trying to shoot that damn thing down knows that.  Go for their chopper base and defend it like it was your own!

2 - Pilot is always a support role of either Medic or Supt.  Don't ever be anything else, because you are not shooting or fixing anything so you need to keep your guys in supply and healthy.

3 - Find the flags that are being attacked and mow down all the little MEC guys.  A good CC will UAV the battles and that should clue you in to where the points...i mean the support needs to be given.

4 - Circle the entire map, don't stagnate in one spot, you'll become Vodnik fodder.

5 - Join that SQ in the BH or if you are the pilot, and thus the less likely to die, become the SQ/CC

Agree or Disagree, the BH is the main reason the Marines kick ass on that map.  Played on a server where the Admins got in both choppers and just hovered way above the battle so no one could use them, makes a huge difference.
2006-01-13 18:59:19
Tarthkin
Member
+-1|6911
nating75

     The whole purpose of the BH is support, not to cap flags.  The game is won by ground forces like i said but where the BH dominates is protecting a flag that is about to be capped by the other team, covering ground squads while the cap a flag and finally, when the MEC is backed into a corner at either the Hotel or the gas station the BH contains the ground forces and sends waves of lead down of the infortunate heads of the enemy.

The BH is Combat Ineffective without a compitant ground force doing the actual capping
2006-01-13 21:57:42
amgln
Member
+0|6898
ok, BH rocks in mashtuur but any good tactics how to take it out

-man AA frequently especially in the beginning
-capture BH base
-once i was in a squad in a flying cow with at least two specops throwing C4s blowing full BH
2006-01-16 00:02:00
BeforeGod
Member
+0|6963|British Columbia

00Colburn wrote:

Agree or Disagree, the BH is the main reason the Marines kick ass on that map.  Played on a server where the Admins got in both choppers and just hovered way above the battle so no one could use them, makes a huge difference.
It could only be a positive difference. That map could use 2-4 more IGLA/Stingers.
2006-01-16 01:25:38
chavr
Member
+0|6840
I disagree.  The BH's priority should be making sure that the USMC always has more flags then the MEC.  That means flying over a base, having your crew drop out, one gunner stays for support and then loading back up with a quick touch and go so you can take out the next flag.

Flying support is part of it, but not at the cost of losing sight of mobility.  The BH lets you move to any flag and provide instant support with ground troops and overhead cover.
2006-01-16 03:02:41
kilroy0097
Kilroy Is Here!
+81|6992|Bryan/College Station, TX

Torin wrote:

The most annoying part of piloting the BH on Mashtuur is having the Tub follow you around the map, crashing into you and giving you 5 team damage and 5 team kills for a whopping -30 team points per crash. Makes you want to stop piloting REAL quick.
I see you found my secret.  

Personally I love piloting the tub of a MEC chopper into the BH. Gotten pretty good at destroying them by landing on them or climbing up into them. For some reason they die before I do this way. Don't know why. Sometimes if I am feeling esspecially snarky about the BH on that map I'll plant a bunch of C4 on my flying tub and take out the BH either in midflight via eject *click* *BOOM!* or I'll land on the US Heli-pad forcing the BH not to spawn. When the US attempts to move the MEC Chopper I blow it. Usually the BH Spawns immediately after that and I steal it.

Nothing pisses off the US team more than their own BH killing all of them. I guess they hate being on the losing side.

While ordinarily I hate those who steal other people's helicopters and jets. On this one map I make a severe exception just to even the odds. Hell sometimes I even sit with the BH the entire game doing rather high altitude runs just to keep it occupided and let my squad do airdrop spawns on it.

It's just a better map in my opinions when there is no airpower.

Cheers.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
2006-01-19 08:09:17
memphisjz
Member
+1|6835|Belgium
Indeed this way rules,
i got evertime as i pilot more than 90 points in every round(off course if my gunners don't suck to much)
the BH rules!!
2006-01-19 09:25:01
imdead
Death StatPadder
+228|6918|Human Meat Shield

00Colburn wrote:

Mastur is a pilots wet dream waiting to happen...  In short order I'll break it down for you, but first of all I am not #1 in BHs, but pretty good.  Never had a round as pilot with less than 100 pts, and usually get 120+.

1 - Don't cap the SW flag, a good MEC team will be able to C4 spam the shit out of any place they want because their chopper is setup better for that, and anyone who has be around a CP wasting clip after clip trying to shoot that damn thing down knows that.  Go for their chopper base and defend it like it was your own!

2 - Pilot is always a support role of either Medic or Supt.  Don't ever be anything else, because you are not shooting or fixing anything so you need to keep your guys in supply and healthy.

3 - Find the flags that are being attacked and mow down all the little MEC guys.  A good CC will UAV the battles and that should clue you in to where the points...i mean the support needs to be given.

4 - Circle the entire map, don't stagnate in one spot, you'll become Vodnik fodder.

5 - Join that SQ in the BH or if you are the pilot, and thus the less likely to die, become the SQ/CC

Agree or Disagree, the BH is the main reason the Marines kick ass on that map.  Played on a server where the Admins got in both choppers and just hovered way above the battle so no one could use them, makes a huge difference.
this is very true. 

But I did notice a rather great tactic the other day-- the shitbag was AVOIDING the BH and dropping C4 on everyone(hence the guns on the crap aren't worth a shit), they had couple engys and couple spec ops and no one in guns, they did better than the BH. They were dropping C4 on everyone.
2006-01-19 09:46:47
=ST6=SewerMaster
AK Whore
+152|6945|Barrington, RI

beeng wrote:

and you loose the round terribly when the t-90 puts a round through your BH
i've seen it time and time again, where a whole squad of people is tied up bh whoring, causing a major inbalance of players -actually capping flags-
the t-90 is easily dealt with by repalcing one of the engineers with a spec ops.  did this the other night and the guy with the C4 got 40 kills and a vetran explosives badge. (he didn't have the global kills needed for expert)

Last edited by =ST6=SewerMaster (2006-01-19 09:50:25)

 

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