Quick 90 second history thingy.
http://www.mapsofwar.com/images/EMPIRE17.swf
http://www.mapsofwar.com/images/EMPIRE17.swf
It kind of lays waste to the whole 'we were here first' argument.
To be honest, I don't really care who was there first. You guys like to debate that, and I don't find dwelling on the past helps much. I don't even know if the info in the slide show is "good".
I just like the colors.
I just like the colors.
Let's hope there's no infiltration of Hittites into the American Senate or things could get messy.
It's not something I like to dwell on - it's something those opposed to my arguments often bring up. It doesn't exactly strike me as relevant given how dynamic the middle east was in terms of the struggle for power over the last few millennia.Pug wrote:
To be honest, I don't really care who was there first. You guys like to debate that, and I don't find dwelling on the past helps much. I don't even know if the info in the slide show is "good".
I just like the colors.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-02-26 10:41:21)
If you like the argument 'we were here first', then the USA belongs to the native Indians and Australia belongs to the Aboriginals. So all others have to return to the land of their forefathers, mostly Europe.
And no, before you ask, my country is NOT gonna take GWB back! You can keep him.
No, I think you guys misunderstood me.Pierre wrote:
If you like the argument 'we were here first', then the USA belongs to the native Indians and Australia belongs to the Aboriginals. So all others have to return to the land of their forefathers, mostly Europe.
And no, before you ask, my country is NOT gonna take GWB back! You can keep him.
I don't really care who was there first or second. I came across this and I know people have discussed this before, so I posted it.
I've stated in the past that assigning blame or picking a side doesn't get anyone closer to a solution in this situation.
We don't say - "we were here first"... we say - "its our land"!!!
And i am really sorry for these peoples who think that jews have to be in other place...
Like sun in the sky we will stay in Israel, so u can bring this anti-Israeli thread to 2435 millions pages, we just doesn't care.
Palestinians got exactly the same chance to create their country while British mandate, so why these "lovely muslims" didn't do so?
And i am really sorry for these peoples who think that jews have to be in other place...
Like sun in the sky we will stay in Israel, so u can bring this anti-Israeli thread to 2435 millions pages, we just doesn't care.
Palestinians got exactly the same chance to create their country while British mandate, so why these "lovely muslims" didn't do so?
Well that's where you're wrong. The British had sovereignty over the region and turned a blind eye to tens of thousands of immigrants pouring into the region. So no, they didn't exactly have the same chance.Lisik wrote:
We don't say - "we were here first"... we say - "its our land"!!!
And i am really sorry for these peoples who think that jews have to be in other place...
Like sun in the sky we will stay in Israel, so u can bring this anti-Israeli thread to 2435 millions pages, we just doesn't care.
Palestinians got exactly the same chance to create their country while British mandate, so why these "lovely muslims" didn't do so?
PS You say 'we will stay in Israel' but why do you stay in the west bank and east jerusalem - they're not parts of Israel?
That really annoys me, it is not 'anti-Israeli' to discuss the situation in Israel/Palestine, this is a discussion forum. If we were anti Semites we could log onto one of the countless hate sites out there and talk to other anti-Semites and completely dismiss the Israeli side of the argument altogether. If you truly believe this post is anti-Israeli perhaps you should contact one of the moderators as your accusation is a criticism of their work.Lisik wrote:
so u can bring this anti-Israeli thread to 2435 millions pages, we just doesn't care.
Well, they would've done if all those Israeli terrorists hadn't been running round blowing them up.Lisik wrote:
Palestinians got exactly the same chance to create their country while British mandate, so why these "lovely muslims" didn't do so?
Ahh, that's where you're wrong, my Zionist friend. It's not "your land"! The borders of the state of Israel were defined in 1948, and the rest has been occupied after many wars.Lisik wrote:
We don't say - "we were here first"... we say - "its our land"!!!
Further there is the known problem of seizing the land of Palestinian farmers outside the state of Israel without compensation, and there is the known problem with your infamous wall (Read here: The wall of hate).
It's all a question of economical power and resources (not oil this time, otherwise you might find yourself the 51st state of the USA some time but water and fertile ground).
I'm not saying you all should be moved. Just leave the occupied territories and stay in your own country.Lisik wrote:
And i am really sorry for these peoples who think that jews have to be in other place...
That's where you're wrong again, my Zionist friend. You really should read more on this topic and you should try catching some non-biased history in the same time.Lisik wrote:
Palestinians got exactly the same chance to create their country while British mandate, so why these "lovely muslims" didn't do so?
It's all a question of politics (since the Brits were in power in the 20th century, the Jews have helped them during WWI (resulted in the Balfour Declaration) and WWII). It's also a question of violence immediately after WWII, when the Jewish underground was bombing a path to independence.
And now it's a question of politics and propaganda, in order to keep the remaining superpower as a friend and ally, to block and/or prevent any disturbing resolutions in the UN SC. And if a resolution passes, your country just ignores it. BTW, remember your country only exists thanks to the UN in 1947-1948 and the general sentiment after the WWII.
Last edited by Pierre (2007-03-01 03:07:54)
Will Jordan and Egypt return the land it took from the Palestinians as well? Pierre do you know how and why the Israeli's are in the occupied areas?Pierre wrote:
I'm not saying you all should be moved. Just leave the occupied territories and stay in your own country.
.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
I sure hope so, any real solution in that area is not possible without the agreement of all the neighbours, including Lebanon and Syria. Let's not forget the Saudis, who will have to fund the rebuilding of any Palestinian state.Kmarion wrote:
Will Jordan and Egypt return the land it took from the Palestinians as well? Pierre do you know how and why the Israeli's are in the occupied areas?
As to your second question, i have a clue, safety is an important issue together with economical reasons, but I'm willing to hear your point.
On the day following an official Jewish State (Under a UN mandate) Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq declared war on Israel. The Palestinians and the Arabs saw the partition plan as unacceptable.Pierre wrote:
I sure hope so, any real solution in that area is not possible without the agreement of all the neighbours, including Lebanon and Syria. Let's not forget the Saudis, who will have to fund the rebuilding of any Palestinian state.Kmarion wrote:
Will Jordan and Egypt return the land it took from the Palestinians as well? Pierre do you know how and why the Israeli's are in the occupied areas?
As to your second question, i have a clue, safety is an important issue together with economical reasons, but I'm willing to hear your point.
"In an official cablegram from the Secretary-General of the League of Arab States to the UN Secretary-General on 15 May 1948, the Arab states publicly proclaimed their aim of creating a "United State of Palestine" in place of the Jewish and Arab, two-state, UN Plan. They claimed the latter was invalid, as it was opposed by Palestine's Arab majority, and maintained that the absence of legal authority made it necessary to intervene to protect Arab lives and property."
Unfortunately despite being up against 6 different nations the IDF not only held them back but managed to claim the other now occupied lands.
If there is to ever be a chance at a permanent peace I do feel also that Israel must return what they took during the war (Eygpt and Jordan also). Obviously the Arabs should not be declaring war on Israel as well.
I just wanted to point out that it wasn't as if Israel had just decided to stroll in and take the lands as their own. There was a UN mandate that divided the land but the league of Arab states rejected it and declared war.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Your point was fine up until that sentence. There was never any need for Israel to start building civilian settlements on land that was not theirs, and yet they continue to do so. They could have just militarily occupied it but now you have towns like Ariel with several hundred thousand inhabitants on land that does not belong to them. The goal of the zionists, who currently hold sway in the Knesset, is to annex all of the West Bank for themselves. They are making Palestinian lives as miserable as possible to try and starve/empoverish them out of thier homes so that they will leave in desparation. It may or may not have been their original goal but it certainly has been for the last twenty years or so.Kmarion wrote:
I just wanted to point out that it wasn't as if Israel had just decided to stroll in and take the lands as their own. There was a UN mandate that divided the land but the league of Arab states rejected it and declared war.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-03-05 03:21:31)
What about the sentence where I typed they need to get out?(return the land)CameronPoe wrote:
Your point was fine up until that sentence. There was never any need for Israel to start building civilian settlements on land that was not theirs, and yet they continue to do so. They could have just militarily occupied it but now you have towns like Ariel with several hundred thousand inhabitants on land that does not belong to them. The goal of the zionists, who currently hold sway in the Knesset, is to annex all of the West Bank for themselves. They are making Palestinian lives as miserable as possible to try and starve/empoverish them out of thier homes so that they will leave in desparation. It may or may not have been their original goal but it certainly has been for the last twenty years or so.Kmarion wrote:
I just wanted to point out that it wasn't as if Israel had just decided to stroll in and take the lands as their own. There was a UN mandate that divided the land but the league of Arab states rejected it and declared war.
Last edited by Kmarion (2007-03-05 08:06:09)
Xbone Stormsurgezz
It just seemed liked you softened your whole stance considerably by exempting the Israelis from blame on the grounds of the UN partition plan but on second reading I guess I was wrong.Kmarion wrote:
What about the sentence where I typed they need to get out?(return the land)CameronPoe wrote:
Your point was fine up until that sentence. There was never any need for Israel to start building civilian settlements on land that was not theirs, and yet they continue to do so. They could have just militarily occupied it but now you have towns like Ariel with several hundred thousand inhabitants on land that does not belong to them. The goal of the zionists, who currently hold sway in the Knesset, is to annex all of the West Bank for themselves. They are making Palestinian lives as miserable as possible to try and starve/empoverish them out of thier homes so that they will leave in desparation. It may or may not have been their original goal but it certainly has been for the last twenty years or so.Kmarion wrote:
I just wanted to point out that it wasn't as if Israel had just decided to stroll in and take the lands as their own. There was a UN mandate that divided the land but the league of Arab states rejected it and declared war.
Hotep
May I ask who was there before the Jews, Romans, Palestine's, and Arabs. Has anyone ever ask this question before? Are do the world wish not to answer the question. Do to the answer will undo other peoples lies about true history. Do they fear that they would have to face the lies that has become truth. Think about this. But not to hard. For the answer will brake the racism that has been told for a hundred are so years. What goes around come around.
Oh yes my name. Scorpion Guard. Look close to African history for the answer. And you will learn the truth.
May I ask who was there before the Jews, Romans, Palestine's, and Arabs. Has anyone ever ask this question before? Are do the world wish not to answer the question. Do to the answer will undo other peoples lies about true history. Do they fear that they would have to face the lies that has become truth. Think about this. But not to hard. For the answer will brake the racism that has been told for a hundred are so years. What goes around come around.
Oh yes my name. Scorpion Guard. Look close to African history for the answer. And you will learn the truth.
Last edited by ScorpionGuard (2007-04-23 17:45:21)