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2007-02-26 10:51:27
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|7003

IRONCHEF wrote:

Excellent!  I knew that deep down, you weren't really a god hater as you sometimes come across!  And because you espouse some religious principles (which of course aren't considered "religious" or derived from religion to you) yet abandon worship of a supreme being, you have adjusted perfectly despite your upraising and consequential "indoctrination" or "brainwashing" from your family and community.  This supports my thoughts that atheists are mostly people who were at one time religious who had become offended by someone or something and became bitter towards those type of people and their belief structure..right up to the very existence of god.  In short, it's a reactive principle more than it is something they sought after out of their own innocent search for truth.  And when you react towards something like this, you validate your emotions of hate and disdain for a religion from ANY source regardless of its accuracy.  Or so I've observed...
I wouldn't go so far as to say that. Your reactive principle only holds true because for me to become an atheist I obviously had to reject my religion, the reason being how implausible it all was to me (not because of some offence it caused me). I could just as well have come to the conclusion that no such thing as a higher being existed had I been left to my own unhindered devices as a child, free from indoctrination.

PS You appear to be generalising heavily with respect to atheists, the most diverse bunch of people on the planet.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-02-26 10:53:24)

2007-02-26 10:52:32
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7029|SE London

IRONCHEF wrote:

norge wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Goes to show there's no such thing as an atheist.  If you are an athiest, you shouldn't know so much about God, or the lack thereof.  You should keep to the things you know...not things you are professing to not know.  But as it is, most athiests seem to know more about religion than those professing to live one.
100% false.

being an atheist doesnt mean you need to be ignorant.
I'm sorry, but have you met the atheists I've met and come to the same conclusion that I have?  Then if not, then your assessment of my post is unnecessary and totally out of line.  I have said nothing of atheists being ignorant.  I've made my observation known that the atheists I know seem to know more about god, and bring up religion as the crux of all problems in their life, than others.  Seriously, it's boring to see professed atheists totally enveloped in religious topic about every aspect of their life..blaming religion and believers in god for this, and blaming religion for that..never taking upon themselves accountability or reality.  Some sad stuff to be atheist.  They're like black people who never shut up about how the white man is oppressing them and keeping them in the ghetto and in jails, etc.
No, that's not what you've said.

You've massively generalised and the views of atheists you have portrayed are equally offensive to any negative religious stereotypes that religious people complain about atheists throwing around too casually. You have not made a distinction between atheists you have met and other atheists, as you have just claimed.

Your initial post that was responded to:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Goes to show there's no such thing as an atheist.  If you are an athiest, you shouldn't know so much about God, or the lack thereof.  You should keep to the things you know...not things you are professing to not know.  But as it is, most athiests seem to know more about religion than those professing to live one.
Where in there have you distinguished between atheists in general and those you have met? All I can see is an anti-atheist rant, claiming atheists know nothing of religion and so should stay clear of it. A statement I have yet to see any evidence to support.
2007-02-26 10:52:55
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6939|Northern California

Bertster7 wrote:

Why so? A lot of atheists know a lot more about the history of religion than most religious people.
Hmmm...not sure I'll agree with this statement, even reversed.  How could you come to this belief?  Are you talking about yourself or your own experience?

Bertster7 wrote:

You've massively generalised and the views of atheists you have portrayed are equally offensive to any negative religious stereotypes that religious people complain about atheists throwing around too casually. You have not made a distinction between atheists you have met and other atheists, as you have just claimed.

Your initial post that was responded to:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Goes to show there's no such thing as an atheist.  If you are an athiest, you shouldn't know so much about God, or the lack thereof.  You should keep to the things you know...not things you are professing to not know.  But as it is, most athiests seem to know more about religion than those professing to live one.
Where in there have you distinguished between atheists in general and those you have met? All I can see is an anti-atheist rant, claiming atheists know nothing of religion and so should stay clear of it. A statement I have yet to see any evidence to support.
Apologies.  MY initial post was more light hearted as I described my personal view of atheists I've met.  Sorry if I was including ALL atheists.  Obviously I can't speak on behalf of all atheists (or my observation of them when I haven't met them).  But I can say that yes, I am generalizing by saying because of the atheists I've met and what I've learned from them, I also feel that other atheists are the same.  Sorry if that was a criminal observation.  And again, my "rant" was not anti-atheist..that was your perception of it since it was not my intention.  I was, however, making fun of atheists suggesting that they are not well founded in their beliefs.  Sorry you took offense.

Last edited by IRONCHEF (2007-02-26 10:57:42)

2007-02-26 10:53:36
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7049|132 and Bush

ATG wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Would think that to be an atheist and firmly believe in nothing it takes knowledge what not to believe in, dont you think ?
I would say that 100% of the "atheists" I've known and befriended all got that way because of some stupid little offense they took from "someone" who practices religion and NOT doctrines or principles practiced by any particular religion.  It twists and turns them so bitterly that it evolves in them a general hatred which they end up masking with a made-up "intellectual" attitude towards the existence of god or "a supreme being."  But within a couple sentences of speech defining their evidences against god, you can easily see they are completely lost and without basis for their thoughts.  But that's just me and my observation.  Maybe I've not really met a true atheist!
True, but a lot of self proclaimed religious people are equally clueless and judgemental about ' alternative" religions.


IMO, the only rational choice is to be agnostic, therefor debate is pretty well mute.
The debate here is about entitlement. A person is entitled to their view with the repetitive condescending attitude towards those with opposing views. We all know the difference and when lines are crossed. I just see it as disrespectful.

Edit:Laptop typing sucks..

Last edited by Kmarion (2007-02-26 11:01:44)

Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-02-26 10:58:08
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7029|SE London

IRONCHEF wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Why so? A lot of atheists know a lot more about the history of religion than most religious people.
Hmmm...not sure I'll agree with this statement, even reversed.  How could you come to this belief?  Are you talking about yourself or your own experience?
I'm talking about a large proportion of atheists. I have plenty of quite well researched theories on where various elements of different religious doctorines have come from, which I have discussed in past threads. I know a number of atheists who hold similar views. Just because someone does not believe in any sort of God does not mean that they dismiss the cultural and historical significance of religions and I find that atheists quite often have a much more rounded knowledge of religions, due to the fact they are less limited to looking at a single faith.

I am very interested in the role various religions have played throughout history and how they have been adapted to fit in with various nations political needs.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2007-02-26 11:00:24)

2007-02-26 10:58:31
jonsimon
Member
+224|6943

IRONCHEF wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Well, there's "catholics" in your most catholic neighborhoods that aren't exactly model catholics.  I can't imagine ANY religion where you're held to a standard or you'll be ridiculed.  LIkewise, children raised in a home of a particular religion aren't tested on the doctrines being force fed to them.

My children are being heavily indoctrinated in the religion of our family (the one my wife and I live).  But along with that heavy "brainwashing" as many would put it, is also the teaching that they have their free agency to abandon all that we've taught them and expected of them, and even that they must learn FOR THEMSELVES the validity of what they've learned all their lives.  I don't know of many religions or people that do that, but I believe it's the correct way to raise children if you're religious.  I wasn't raised that way and left the religion of my family (Lutheran) because it had no substance, no meaning to me, and I had no reason to "just belong" to a bunch of people.
In a similar manner I came to realise, as I viewed it then and now, that religion and the concept of a higher being were illogical/delusional and that the dogma surrounding the religion I was raised in was empty and meaningless as a consequence, although I regarded, as I do now, that the general message (love thy neighbour, etc.) was positive. I became a realist if you will and abandoned religion in favour of an absence of it.
Excellent!  I knew that deep down, you weren't really a god hater as you sometimes come across!  And because you espouse some religious principles (which of course aren't considered "religious" or derived from religion to you) yet abandon worship of a supreme being, you have adjusted perfectly despite your upraising and consequential "indoctrination" or "brainwashing" from your family and community.  This supports my thoughts that atheists are mostly people who were at one time religious who had become offended by someone or something and became bitter towards those type of people and their belief structure..right up to the very existence of god.  In short, it's a reactive principle more than it is something they sought after out of their own innocent search for truth.  And when you react towards something like this, you validate your emotions of hate and disdain for a religion from ANY source regardless of its accuracy.  Or so I've observed...
You fail at reading. Poe explicitly says that he came to the realization that the religion was illogical and meaningless. Nowhere does he mention explicitly nor implicitly that he is, was, or will be "offended," or "bitter."

Oh, and guess what Ironchef, I was never religious, never went to church, and I'm atheist. I'm not bitter towards religion, I simply see that it provides no utility or function to me and has little influence on the real decisions made and actions taken by those around me, including those that are religious. As such, I discarded it as a child might discard an old toy, straightforward and without emotion.

The real question is why are YOU so bitter towards atheism? What about it offended YOU?
2007-02-26 11:00:47
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6939|Northern California

jonsimon wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:


In a similar manner I came to realise, as I viewed it then and now, that religion and the concept of a higher being were illogical/delusional and that the dogma surrounding the religion I was raised in was empty and meaningless as a consequence, although I regarded, as I do now, that the general message (love thy neighbour, etc.) was positive. I became a realist if you will and abandoned religion in favour of an absence of it.
Excellent!  I knew that deep down, you weren't really a god hater as you sometimes come across!  And because you espouse some religious principles (which of course aren't considered "religious" or derived from religion to you) yet abandon worship of a supreme being, you have adjusted perfectly despite your upraising and consequential "indoctrination" or "brainwashing" from your family and community.  This supports my thoughts that atheists are mostly people who were at one time religious who had become offended by someone or something and became bitter towards those type of people and their belief structure..right up to the very existence of god.  In short, it's a reactive principle more than it is something they sought after out of their own innocent search for truth.  And when you react towards something like this, you validate your emotions of hate and disdain for a religion from ANY source regardless of its accuracy.  Or so I've observed...
You fail at reading. Poe explicitly says that he came to the realization that the religion was illogical and meaningless. Nowhere does he mention explicitly nor implicitly that he is, was, or will be "offended," or "bitter."

Oh, and guess what Ironchef, I was never religious, never went to church, and I'm atheist. I'm not bitter towards religion, I simply see that it provides no utility or function to me and has little influence on the real decisions made and actions taken by those around me, including those that are religious. As such, I discarded it as a child might discard an old toy, straightforward and without emotion.

The real question is why are YOU so bitter towards atheism? What about it offended YOU?
Your insult and attack is unappreciated.   But this has always been this way since you first replied to something I've said.  I'd respond if you weren't so angry in your replies to me.
2007-02-26 11:01:37
jonsimon
Member
+224|6943

IRONCHEF wrote:

Your insult and attack is unappreciated.   But this has always been this way since you first replied to something I've said.  I'd respond if you weren't so angry in your replies to me.
Where did I insult you?

Edit: The fail at reading bit? I apologize for that, if so.

Last edited by jonsimon (2007-02-26 11:03:33)

2007-02-26 11:02:48
notorious
Nay vee, bay bee.
+1,396|7195|The United Center

jonsimon wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:


In a similar manner I came to realise, as I viewed it then and now, that religion and the concept of a higher being were illogical/delusional and that the dogma surrounding the religion I was raised in was empty and meaningless as a consequence, although I regarded, as I do now, that the general message (love thy neighbour, etc.) was positive. I became a realist if you will and abandoned religion in favour of an absence of it.
Excellent!  I knew that deep down, you weren't really a god hater as you sometimes come across!  And because you espouse some religious principles (which of course aren't considered "religious" or derived from religion to you) yet abandon worship of a supreme being, you have adjusted perfectly despite your upraising and consequential "indoctrination" or "brainwashing" from your family and community.  This supports my thoughts that atheists are mostly people who were at one time religious who had become offended by someone or something and became bitter towards those type of people and their belief structure..right up to the very existence of god.  In short, it's a reactive principle more than it is something they sought after out of their own innocent search for truth.  And when you react towards something like this, you validate your emotions of hate and disdain for a religion from ANY source regardless of its accuracy.  Or so I've observed...
You fail at reading. Poe explicitly says that he came to the realization that the religion was illogical and meaningless. Nowhere does he mention explicitly nor implicitly that he is, was, or will be "offended," or "bitter."

Oh, and guess what Ironchef, I was never religious, never went to church, and I'm atheist. I'm not bitter towards religion, I simply see that it provides no utility or function to me and has little influence on the real decisions made and actions taken by those around me, including those that are religious. As such, I discarded it as a child might discard an old toy, straightforward and without emotion.

The real question is why are YOU so bitter towards atheism? What about it offended YOU?
Keep a level head.  Don't have me make an example out of you.  Remember, Big Brother is watching...
2007-02-26 11:03:26
PureFodder
Member
+225|6733

IRONCHEF wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Well, there's "catholics" in your most catholic neighborhoods that aren't exactly model catholics.  I can't imagine ANY religion where you're held to a standard or you'll be ridiculed.  LIkewise, children raised in a home of a particular religion aren't tested on the doctrines being force fed to them.

My children are being heavily indoctrinated in the religion of our family (the one my wife and I live).  But along with that heavy "brainwashing" as many would put it, is also the teaching that they have their free agency to abandon all that we've taught them and expected of them, and even that they must learn FOR THEMSELVES the validity of what they've learned all their lives.  I don't know of many religions or people that do that, but I believe it's the correct way to raise children if you're religious.  I wasn't raised that way and left the religion of my family (Lutheran) because it had no substance, no meaning to me, and I had no reason to "just belong" to a bunch of people.
In a similar manner I came to realise, as I viewed it then and now, that religion and the concept of a higher being were illogical/delusional and that the dogma surrounding the religion I was raised in was empty and meaningless as a consequence, although I regarded, as I do now, that the general message (love thy neighbour, etc.) was positive. I became a realist if you will and abandoned religion in favour of an absence of it.
Excellent!  I knew that deep down, you weren't really a god hater as you sometimes come across!  And because you espouse some religious principles (which of course aren't considered "religious" or derived from religion to you) yet abandon worship of a supreme being, you have adjusted perfectly despite your upraising and consequential "indoctrination" or "brainwashing" from your family and community.  This supports my thoughts that atheists are mostly people who were at one time religious who had become offended by someone or something and became bitter towards those type of people and their belief structure..right up to the very existence of god.  In short, it's a reactive principle more than it is something they sought after out of their own innocent search for truth.  And when you react towards something like this, you validate your emotions of hate and disdain for a religion from ANY source regardless of its accuracy.  Or so I've observed...
Don't be too quick to try and generalise atheists. Remember that there are 1.1 billion of us.
2007-02-26 11:03:33
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7049|132 and Bush

jonsimon wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Your insult and attack is unappreciated.   But this has always been this way since you first replied to something I've said.  I'd respond if you weren't so angry in your replies to me.
Where did I insult you?
I would say right about the time you told him he failed at reading..lol
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-02-26 11:04:41
jonsimon
Member
+224|6943

Kmarion wrote:

jonsimon wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Your insult and attack is unappreciated.   But this has always been this way since you first replied to something I've said.  I'd respond if you weren't so angry in your replies to me.
Where did I insult you?
I would say right about the time you told him he failed at reading..lol
Yeah I realized that after, it was meant to be more lighthearted like the internet usually is, but I obviously screwed up.
2007-02-26 11:05:24
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7049|132 and Bush

jonsimon wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

jonsimon wrote:


Where did I insult you?
I would say right about the time you told him he failed at reading..lol
Yeah I realized that after, it was meant to be more lighthearted like the internet usually is, but I obviously screwed up.
Understood, with forums much is left for interpretation. At least you clarified.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-02-26 11:08:16
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6939|Northern California

PureFodder wrote:

Don't be too quick to try and generalise atheists. Remember that there are 1.1 billion of us.
Wow!  Maybe I'm quite ignorant, but where would you have learned such a number?  Do atheists all band together and keep registered as such?  Last I heard, 95% of the world population believes in a supreme being.  So if there's 6 billion people in the world and 1.1b of them don't believe in a supreme being.  As for that 95% stat I've always heard, I would guess it's probably not accurate.  Speaking as a christian, it is prophesied in our scriptural works that in the last days, that divide between believers and unbelievers would grow considerably.
2007-02-26 11:08:52
KylieTastic
Games, Girls, Guinness
+85|6900|Cambridge, UK

@Kmarion: I agree that there are several 'atheist' that are just rude or often just give not thought out "I'm right, science rules" types of responses.... but there are just as many that do the same for the religious side. A good example I would say is IronChef in this thread.

As for why I (and I would guess others) post in such religious posts is only a very small part against religion being thrust upon us. Its quite simple that as much as several of the religious try to re define the word, atheism is 'the disbelief in the existence of any deities' and not: a belief as such in its self; or not caring or knowing if any deities exist. That's the point of questions in D&ST isn't it - people who have opinions say them.

Lastly I also believe that for those that are undecided (agnostics) of religious-ish they should here counter arguments, unfortunately there are many (ok probably not reading these!) in the world that dont think much and take believe things they are told unless they see other options.
2007-02-26 11:10:12
jonsimon
Member
+224|6943

IRONCHEF wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Don't be too quick to try and generalise atheists. Remember that there are 1.1 billion of us.
Wow!  Maybe I'm quite ignorant, but where would you have learned such a number?  Do atheists all band together and keep registered as such?  Last I heard, 95% of the world population believes in a supreme being.  So if there's 6 billion people in the world and 1.1b of them don't believe in a supreme being.  As for that 95% stat I've always heard, I would guess it's probably not accurate.  Speaking as a christian, it is prophesied in our scriptural works that in the last days, that divide between believers and unbelievers would grow considerably.
Numerical discrepencies aside, his message is valid. Assuming atheists are all bitter would be like assuming you're a bigot like because some religious people are? Or assuming you are racist because some white people are.

Edit: Changed to remove any misconceptions, my intent was not to call chef a bigot, if it appeared that way I apologize.

Last edited by jonsimon (2007-02-26 11:31:11)

2007-02-26 11:14:48
notorious
Nay vee, bay bee.
+1,396|7195|The United Center

jonsimon wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Don't be too quick to try and generalise atheists. Remember that there are 1.1 billion of us.
Wow!  Maybe I'm quite ignorant, but where would you have learned such a number?  Do atheists all band together and keep registered as such?  Last I heard, 95% of the world population believes in a supreme being.  So if there's 6 billion people in the world and 1.1b of them don't believe in a supreme being.  As for that 95% stat I've always heard, I would guess it's probably not accurate.  Speaking as a christian, it is prophesied in our scriptural works that in the last days, that divide between believers and unbelievers would grow considerably.
Numerical discrepencies aside, his message is valid. Or should I assume you're a bigot like some religious people?
These are the kinds of things up with which I will not put.  He has been warned.  I'm stopping this before it turns into a flamewar, the thread gets closed, and people get banned.

If you can't debate with a level head, then don't debate at all.
2007-02-26 11:15:35
RicardoBlanco
The English
+177|7016|Oxford

Kmarion wrote:

I had always understood the primary beef most atheist/agnostic had with the everyone else was that they felt others were pushing their religion on them. To me recently it seems to be quite the opposite. I understand this is a debate forum and it is a sensitive subject, but there is nothing that gets under my skin more than someone trying to impose their religious beliefs (or lack thereof) on you. Even with words like "undeniable, scientific, and fact". A persons faith and family are probably the closest things they hold to heart. Show some respect. Make your point and let it be. If you want to debate evolution or creationism there are ways to approach it without being condescending. I'll be happy to join in. People like Bertster and topal63 have demonstrated that you can have a grasp on this without trashing on a persons faith. I was going to post the threads I had in mind but I am not going to turn this into a personal attack.
The problem with every Christian person I've ever met (and this could apply to any religious person I've met) is that when you really look at how they live their lives they're neither Christian nor religious; certainly not by standards one sees in the bible. They take the moral high ground and vaguely brush off any criticisms of their religion, smugly confident in their 'God' and how he'll compensate for their narrow mindedness and ignorance.

I'm a firm non-believer, but I can at least appreciate how religion could be a comfort to someone and, in moderation, might enlighten someone to lead a better life. Religion has a lot of good things to say, the only problem is as soon as you bring human nature into the equation it all becomes moot. This is more than I can say for the believers.
2007-02-26 11:16:19
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7029|SE London

IRONCHEF wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Don't be too quick to try and generalise atheists. Remember that there are 1.1 billion of us.
Wow!  Maybe I'm quite ignorant, but where would you have learned such a number?  Do atheists all band together and keep registered as such?  Last I heard, 95% of the world population believes in a supreme being.  So if there's 6 billion people in the world and 1.1b of them don't believe in a supreme being.  As for that 95% stat I've always heard, I would guess it's probably not accurate.  Speaking as a christian, it is prophesied in our scriptural works that in the last days, that divide between believers and unbelievers would grow considerably.
You're right there. Sort of. Atheists comprise between 4 and 5% of the worlds population, with approximately a further 10% being unreligious.

1.1 billion is right out.
2007-02-26 11:23:37
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6939|Northern California

Bertster7 wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Don't be too quick to try and generalise atheists. Remember that there are 1.1 billion of us.
Wow!  Maybe I'm quite ignorant, but where would you have learned such a number?  Do atheists all band together and keep registered as such?  Last I heard, 95% of the world population believes in a supreme being.  So if there's 6 billion people in the world and 1.1b of them don't believe in a supreme being.  As for that 95% stat I've always heard, I would guess it's probably not accurate.  Speaking as a christian, it is prophesied in our scriptural works that in the last days, that divide between believers and unbelievers would grow considerably.
You're right there. Sort of. Atheists comprise between 4 and 5% of the worlds population, with approximately a further 10% being unreligious.

1.1 billion is right out.
Not arguing, but would you have a source for that number?  Hard to believe that there's as many atheists as there are Muslims.  It's not that I don't believe that number, but it would give room for greater debate as to why there's so many atheists.  Thanks.
2007-02-26 11:23:38
KylieTastic
Games, Girls, Guinness
+85|6900|Cambridge, UK

I'm guessing the source of the 1.1Bn come form Wiki (or its original source) on religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion) but that figure is for all Non-Adherent (Secular/Atheist/Irreligious/Agnostic/Nontheist). Also that information is challenged on Wiki.

It would be good if someone could find a link to some official recent report/stats.... I looked for and failed!

Last edited by KylieTastic (2007-02-26 11:26:59)

2007-02-26 11:26:32
PureFodder
Member
+225|6733

IRONCHEF wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

Don't be too quick to try and generalise atheists. Remember that there are 1.1 billion of us.
Wow!  Maybe I'm quite ignorant, but where would you have learned such a number?  Do atheists all band together and keep registered as such?  Last I heard, 95% of the world population believes in a supreme being.  So if there's 6 billion people in the world and 1.1b of them don't believe in a supreme being.  As for that 95% stat I've always heard, I would guess it's probably not accurate.  Speaking as a christian, it is prophesied in our scriptural works that in the last days, that divide between believers and unbelievers would grow considerably.
Govenments keep statistics.

I haven't found anywhere on the net that quotes a world percentage of atheists below 14% of the 6.5 million population (0.9 billion). Communism and the death of religion in Europe are significant factors towards this number. In fact the number of Christians worldwide is only roughly twice the number of atheists, Islam being the only other religion with more people believing in it than there are atheists. These seem largely based on census reports, with the athiests being labeled as people who said things like 'no religion' etc.

It's also worth noting that as most stats are taken from census information there is a frankly huge descrepancy (in the UK at least) between the number of people who put a religious denominations on a cencus and the number of people who actually actively pursue their religion. Our census showed the UK had 37 million Christians but only about 2-3 million actually attend any form of christian church/meeting.

Last edited by PureFodder (2007-02-26 11:34:30)

2007-02-26 11:29:01
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|7003
It might be hard to believe for IRONCHEF, with him being from America where Christianity is quite strong, but the sad truth of the matter is that over here in Europe people are often embarrassed to say that they're religious for fear of being laughed at or lambasted. It is almost regarded as being a little backward or naive. In Ireland - one of the strongest bastions of the Catholic faith (until recently) - this year only ONE priest is going to be ordained in the whole of the country. There is talk of importing priests from Africa to get around the impending shortfall.

PS In the Irish census it asks what religion you are, to which I respond 'None'. That is where a lot of figures will come from in terms of adherence to particular religions: censuses.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-02-26 11:32:34)

2007-02-26 11:31:16
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6939|Northern California

KylieTastic wrote:

I'm guessing the source of the 1.1Bn come form Wiki (or its original source) on religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion) but that figure is for all Non-Adherent (Secular/Atheist/Irreligious/Agnostic/Nontheist). Also that information is challenged on Wiki.

It would be good if someone could find a link to some official recent report/stats.... I looked for and failed!
Well that's the thing.  It's not like Atheists are a registered group of practitioners or something.  It's easy to count the religious and get the numbers they have.  There can be polls taken, and I"m guessing in some countries there may be official government documentation where a question of religious preference may include an atheist selection or something to that effect.  Or maybe people have just assumed that if there's xx% of religious people in the world "known of" that there's the remainder as atheist (or as you've mentioned above with all those other groups..which are not all atheist).  My father in law is agnostic but would not agree that he's an atheist.

Anywho, despite the improbability of finding an accurate number, it's safe to say there's a good measurable proportion of atheists.
2007-02-26 11:33:44
jonsimon
Member
+224|6943

IRONCHEF wrote:

KylieTastic wrote:

I'm guessing the source of the 1.1Bn come form Wiki (or its original source) on religion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion) but that figure is for all Non-Adherent (Secular/Atheist/Irreligious/Agnostic/Nontheist). Also that information is challenged on Wiki.

It would be good if someone could find a link to some official recent report/stats.... I looked for and failed!
Well that's the thing.  It's not like Atheists are a registered group of practitioners or something.  It's easy to count the religious and get the numbers they have.  There can be polls taken, and I"m guessing in some countries there may be official government documentation where a question of religious preference may include an atheist selection or something to that effect.  Or maybe people have just assumed that if there's xx% of religious people in the world "known of" that there's the remainder as atheist (or as you've mentioned above with all those other groups..which are not all atheist).  My father in law is agnostic but would not agree that he's an atheist.

Anywho, despite the improbability of finding an accurate number, it's safe to say there's a good measurable proportion of atheists.
Which brings back the point that it is inaccurate to assume all atheists share any common trait aside from the lack of religious beliefs.

Topic closed

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