BF2S Forums I have a question for my fellow Snipers.

silo1180 wrote:

JaggedPanther wrote:

Drexel wrote:

Snipers do not belong in a squad.  They are lone wolfs even if they are helping the team a lot.  Why would a Squad leader keep you in a squad when you aren't anywhere near them, reviving/supplying each other.  Sure you can give them cover, but once they move on, you're nothing to that squad.

Not to mention being AT class when a tank is in your area or blowing up assests as spec ops.


Don't get me wrong, I play as sniper too and am dam good at it, but I agree with the quote that it is a lone wolf role.

You shouldn't get discouraged at all that you are not called a team player.

So when I play Spec Op, and separate from my squad to go destroy the enemy assets I'm still more of a team player than a sniper?  Makes no sense.  I'm not with the squad, I'm not capping flags, I'm not able to supply ammo, or heal.  Spec Ops is just as much a lone wolf role as sniper!  Granted I am helping the team (not just the squad) by destroying the arty and the UAV/scan trailer(s).  Same as a good sniper can help the team by sitting on a building/hill defending a flag, killing other lone wolfs out where a medic can't revive them.  Spotting armor and enemies for the other people on his team, so anyone in the area has a chance to grab some cover before the tank rolls by.  And by defending that flag, they have provided another spawn point that could allow for the enemy to be surrounded, or for fast access to other locations on the map when things go bad.

Alright then Spec Ops is not a team player too then, debate over. Wasn't that easy...


When I play spec ops my main target is tanks and if I'm near Commander assets then I'm after commander assets. That helps the team more than when I am sniper.

I'm both sniper and spec ops. I don't really care if I'm not called a team player.

Last edited by JaggedPanther (2007-02-23 15:38:41)

TrueArchon wrote:

Many players just hate being killed by an enemy they can't see, or can do little about.  That's usually why snipers are hated in this game.

But geez...

You really do know how to pick the crap servers, don't ya? 

Ya i got the luck. But my ability to get points quick makes up for it.

David.Podedworny wrote:

Todd_Angelo wrote:

I'd bet money every single one above maybe 75% is a 'pick and choose' shooter. If that's what floats your boat I guess but personally I prefer to be able to shoot at anything I see that I might be able to hit.

Not me today i was on hbd ghosttown(My favorite server) I was camping on top of the unreachable building in spets spawn shooting into northbridge getting 2 headshots outta 5 kills.

Sorry, that didn't read right. I meant if that's what floats their boat... someone who wants that kind of accuracy, since it makes them relatively unproductive.

darkhorror wrote:

Most snipers suck and don't do much at all.

That's actually true; but as a couple of people have pointed out before it's kinda true of the majority of players. A global KDR of 1 is actually the average, I think we tend to forget that. Anyone with a KDR of 2 has a counterpart with a KDR of 0.5, roughly speaking.

darkhorror wrote:

Even many of the "good" snipers don't really help out the team much.

That's often said but it's not really as simple as it appears. As Books and others pointed out a lot in the past if you kill 20 guys and don't give up a single ticket yourself that is directly helping.

I've played in games where I had say 36 kills and 7 deaths and a medic was top of the team's scoreboard (little surprise there) with maybe 56 kills. But that same guy might have had 24 deaths. Sure they helped the team with revives and whatnot but they still gave up those 24 tickets; kill assists and flag defends (direct or indirect) that the sniper might make sure help the team, and it's in ways that are hard to notice and I think that's often why the role of sniper so often  goes unrecognised... except by those actually doing the sniping.

darkhorror wrote:

There are times and maps that snipers can be effective, but generally your better off with a medic, support or some kit other than sniper.

Up to a point I would agree, even a so-so medic as part of a squad can be a great help and he's much more likely to come in handy throwing down health, doing a few revives, than he is if his shooting ain't up to much and he's using a single-shot weapon.

Todd can i ask you when you snipe do you stalk your targets? I do (up to a point tho)

killer21 wrote:

Not sure why people have to make it so complicated.

I don't think anyone's making it complicated but it's not like there isn't some complexity; lots of stuff about the game is not obvious.

killer21 wrote:

It is very easy if you know what you are doing.

All aspects of BF2 could be said to be "very easy" if you know what you're doing (as well as needing the requisite skills obviously, and good hardware + a consistent connection sure help). The problem is that there are a lot of variables in the game that people aren't aware of because the manual and the in-game interface don't mention them. If you don't know about them they're hard to recognise and deal with*.

So you have to go online to learn about bullet drop, deviation, dust hits, disappearing bullets, etc. And even then we get differences of opinion on this and that, because stuff is not obvious; if things were there wouldn't be much to disagree about. Plus let's not forget there are a bunch of myths floating around as well... if you go back a while you'll see posts by members absolutely convinced that there's no bullet drop for example.

*Lots of parallels with real-world shooting in point of fact. Ever sighted in a scope?

David.Podedworny wrote:

Todd can i ask you when you snipe do you stalk your targets? I do (up to a point tho)

Depends. If I see someone that's potentially hitable I'll go for them unless I have something else more important to do (like following the commander's or SL's attack/defend order) but I won't necessarily hunt someone down for any length of time because it's likely you'll come across other targets closer/easier in that time when playing in city maps.

Enemy snipers are a bit of an exception since it's one of our major jobs to take out or harass our opposites. And since they often pose the most risk to you anyway (in SF particularly) it makes sense to go for them unmercifully.

Sup3r_Dr4gon wrote:

Not true - you forget that if you kill someone, and they are revived, you get a kill but no deaths are recorded.

Yeah, I did remember that, that's why I said roughly.

i so so so so so rarely feel like sniping and when I do I get called a hacker cause I can surprise myself/others with some decent headshots

Todd_Angelo wrote:

A global KDR of 1 is actually the average, I think we tend to forget that. Anyone with a KDR of 2 has a counterpart with a KDR of 0.5, roughly speaking.

KDR of 1 is well below average (as shown below), mostly due to revives, but also end of rounds. But it also goes the other way with TK's and suicides. But....

• Australia: 1.28
• Germany: 1.23
• Sweden: 1.22
• Canada: 1.20
• USA: 1.19
• Ireland: 1.15
• UK: 0.90

I put where i think most people on the forum come from, I'm sry if I missed your country. But you can get this and much more info about any country in the world from here

Todd_Angelo wrote:

darkhorror wrote:

Even many of the "good" snipers don't really help out the team much.

That's often said but it's not really as simple as it appears. As Books and others pointed out a lot in the past if you kill 20 guys and don't give up a single ticket yourself that is directly helping. I've played in games where I had say 36 kills and 7 deaths and a medic was top of the team's scoreboard (little surprise there) with maybe 56 kills. But that same guy might have had 24 deaths. Sure they helped the team with revives and whatnot but they still gave up those 24 tickets; kill assists and flag defends (direct or indirect) that the sniper might make sure help the team, and it's in ways that are hard to notice and I think that's often why the role of sniper so often  goes unrecognised... except by those actually doing the sniping.

I'm not saying thats bad or doesn't help your team, but you can get 50 kills and 1 death, and if all your kills where revived then you cost your team a net of 1 ticket. Very unlikely but it can happen. Also depending on the map/team capturing flags can (and usually is) much more important then defending them.I have a great example. I was playing Karkand IO as a MEC sniper, we had lost most of the flags but had capped some of them back, so there was fighting all over then map. I went and capped the square by myself and then was going to get the hotel back too, but a USMC squad had spawned there already and were heading to the square already.I got 3 SVD kills down the road just to have a medic spawn, revive one(another medic) who the both revived the other 2, I got another 2 kills on the first medic and one of the guys being revived, both of these were revived as I reloaded. Now I was under G36E and L85A1 fire so got 1 more SVD kill (who was revived again) before taking cover and dropping both claymore. The squad (now 5 people) run up to the flag, setting off both claymores (3 kills) while I dropped some grenades on the dead people being revived getting another 3 kills before pulling my pistol on the final guy who L85A1 me in the head and revived all his squad and capped the flag... End result:

• Me: 12 kills 1 death, lose of 1 flag
• USMC: 1 kill, 0 deaths, 1 flag capture

I'm not saying if I had been any other class I would have done better, but if they had not been all medics (4 of them), then they surely wouldn't have done so well.

In the right circumstances a sniper can be very good, but most of the time other classes are just much more useful. A small percentage of snipers can justify there extensive use of the kit but most are just a detriment to the team.

How many times have you seen a sniper very close to an undefended or neutral flag yet does nothing to attempt to capture it, and then compare to how many times it has happened to all other kits combined. How many times have you been capped out and the final person on your team (or the other team) been a sniper who still hasn't moved in an attempt to recapture a flag, and How many times have you seriously been killed by a sniper while capturing a flag compared to a grenade, vehicle, arty or G36E. Its because if this that snipers get a bad rep, and also because most idiots go sniper or medic, but...

Todd_Angelo wrote:

even a so-so medic as part of a squad can be a great help and he's much more likely to come in handy throwing down health, doing a few revives

Sniping? I enjoy it, but I only snipe as part of a team concept.

For instance, on Karkand I'll snipe along the East wall to keep enemy infantry from running down the wall to get to Cement Factory or Train Accident. Sometimes I'll snipe from the building between Suburbs and Square if they've capped the Burbs and are trying to take Square. I have often sniped from the roof above Factory when they had Cement Factory and were trying to take Factory or Warehouse.

It's all about team. Even when you're sniping...

Last edited by Dersmikner (2007-02-24 11:04:36)

I need the teampoints for medal of valor. Thats why i join squads.

DrunkFace wrote:

KDR of 1 is well below average (as shown below), mostly due to revives, but also end of rounds.

Yeah, I realise the revives etc. make a difference but 1 isn't well below; 1.1, 1.2 are pretty close.

0.9 for the UK?? What's up with that?

Nyte wrote:

That server sucks.... The few times I were on it I got kicked for either A) "not sniping normally"

Any server admined by a range of people is going to vary from time to time, but I've played with/against lots of different playing styles there: hide-prone-wait types (especially on Oman...) pop-up shooters of various calibres (with and without movement/strafing) and I haven't seen kicks for any of that; but given how careful you have to be I might just not have noticed.

Nyte wrote:

B) spotting too much

I spot all the time, usually before taking a shot (as you can see in my vids). Never been kicked for it on their server. But then given this is you, we might be talking about:

"Enemy sniper spotted!"
"Enemy sniper spotted!"
"Enemy sniper spotted!"
"Enemy sniper spotted!"
"Enemy sniper spotted!"
"Enemy sniper spotted!"
"Enemy sniper spotted!"
"Enemy sniper spotted!"
"Enemy sniper spotted!"
"Enemy sniper spotted!"
"Enemy sniper spotted!"
"Enemy sniper spotted!"
"Enemy sniper spotted!"
"Enemy sniper spotted!"
"Enemy sniper spotted!"
"Enemy sniper spotted!"
"Enemy sniper spotted!"
"Enemy sniper spotted!"
"Enemy sniper spotted!"



If you were commander they don't like you to spot or the same reason they don't want UAV.

Nyte wrote:

C) general suspicious activity.

LOL Given your penchant for being so good with rules what might that include?

BTW, I see you're still using your STFU_Account PID? I think you need to retire it, not impressive dude. Assault-rifle KDR of 1.64? Geez, even I can do that.

MeanMachine77 wrote:

its bad enough that snieprs are hated for their skill to hit people from distances normal grunts can´t think

but i had several times, when myself as a sniper could fend off enemys off a squad trying to cap a flag, be it with claymores or well placed shots that delayed the attackers.

but anyway, they dont recognise you. they dont understand your kind of teamwork. it is to keep the enemy at a distance, from which he can´t make his weapon effective (except enemy sniper). not to rush like a madman and cap flags, dying 5x trying so...

Lads, a little more respect for your fellow snipers. They mean you no harm, just long distance fire support...

Thank you so much No one realizes that not even the commander, He wont resupply me sometimes cause he says i'm a camping noob.

MeanMachine77 wrote:

dave, what servers do you play most. Maybe sometime in the near future i´ll join you. Lets make a sniper/spotter team and rule the world... (or at least the map). Two .50 cals on one target would show them, that we dont need to hit their heads when they´re moving


Keep on sniping!

Okay First HBD 24/7 ghosttown(I ussually get 5th place),Second 24/7 warlord server v1.43(Ya it's the official name used to be an iron gator server), And third any 24/7 kark,Sharqi,or Mash server. If you want me to join you just pm me.

Snipers can be a massive team player.  a couple protecting flags can make the difference between winning and loosing.