That`s why we have IAEA isn`t it, to keep this under control ?usmarine2007 wrote:
Because when it breaks up, all the nukes and chemical weapons "disappear" with it.Varegg wrote:
Communism tends to break up from the inside and desolve itself so why interfeer ?
Like they controlled Saddam Insane?Varegg wrote:
That`s why we have IAEA isn`t it, to keep this under control ?usmarine2007 wrote:
Because when it breaks up, all the nukes and chemical weapons "disappear" with it.Varegg wrote:
Communism tends to break up from the inside and desolve itself so why interfeer ?
And how many nukes did Saddam have ?usmarine2007 wrote:
Like they controlled Saddam Insane?Varegg wrote:
That`s why we have IAEA isn`t it, to keep this under control ?usmarine2007 wrote:
Because when it breaks up, all the nukes and chemical weapons "disappear" with it.
Doh...I meant the other country that ends in NVaregg wrote:
And how many nukes did Saddam have ?
Isn't that what they did.....? None of my business what system of government the Vietnamese want. I may have commented or been critical about the way they conducted their business but I wouldn't have advocated interference. For one - you should always let people make their own mistakes so that they'll learn their lesson from them good and proper...ATG wrote:
So you would be okay with communists absorbing Vietnam?CameronPoe wrote:
a) America had no business going into Vietnam. None whatsoever.DBBrinson1 wrote:
Yea great idea Cam. The US failed (We haven't though). Lets pull out like we did in Vietnam, (which lead to a mass genocide of thousands of innocent people) but who cares we ain't there anymore. It isn't like the US installed Saddam there to begin with -oh wait... we did. Better yet we can fuel your rhetoric that the US doesn't have the stomach to finish what it starts. I've seen your posts. I remember you bragging about being on TV bashing Iraq policy. You favor dictators and socialism and oppressive government. Just admit you are a socialist/communist. It pisses you off that Democracy prevails. People like you need this cause and America to fail. You want the death and destruction of those who want to be free. Why do you support evil oppressive governments? You of all people -Aren't you an IRA sympathizer? Don't you want that separation? Freedom? Also -Don't you hate religion? Didn't you make fun of the Catholics who rubbed ashes on their heads earlier today? I replied illustrating a more extreme form of religion that cuts the foreheads of children with swords -those are the people you support. You replied that all religion sucks. However you support those that are more extreme. I think you are an OK guy, but get it together man.
b) America cannot nation-build when it comes to arab countries: they aren't seen as impartial arbiters of justice given their support for dictatorial regimes in the likes of Saudi Arabia and Egypt and their unconditional military and financial support for state terrorists Israel. Hypocrisy and conflicts of interest do not build trust.
c) I would never state that the US 'doesn't have the stomach to finish what it starts' - if it jumps out of a campaign early that I believed was fought on unjust or futile grounds then I'll be happy to congratulate their bravery in taking what I view to be the right decision.
d) I don't favour dictatorships: I favour democracy and isolationism. It is the responsibility of the people who are suffering under a dictatorship to free themselves from it. Ireland ousted the Brits, so did the yanks, what have you got against self-determination? The ownership of the battle for freedom must lie in the hands of those who seek to have it.
e) You are SERIOUSLY misguided on my political views. Look at the '18 rules of moderates' thread and get back to me. Democracy is a must for me. I have socialist viewpoints - much like almost the entire population of the EU - which IS A UNION OF SOCIALIST GOVERNMENTS. Can't you differentiate between socialism and communism?
f) Where have I ever said I support oppressive governments? You're just making statements based on your erroneous perception of who I actually am.
g) Religion has a certain amount of value, but the necessity for it to breed a civil and moral society is waning as the process of 'civilisation' has developed far enough at this stage. The dogma of christianity is as much bullshit as that of Islam. I don't differentiate between different types of bullshit, although I favour christianity over islam as it is part of my heritage. Supporting 'those that are more extreme'? Again - making statements based on your erroneous perception of who I actually am.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-02-22 07:31:07)
Oh come on, get it right! It's Sodamn Insane!usmarine2007 wrote:
Like they controlled Saddam Insane?Varegg wrote:
That`s why we have IAEA isn`t it, to keep this under control ?usmarine2007 wrote:
Because when it breaks up, all the nukes and chemical weapons "disappear" with it.
Kind of like they are doing with Iran right now???Varegg wrote:
That`s why we have IAEA isn`t it, to keep this under control ?usmarine2007 wrote:
Because when it breaks up, all the nukes and chemical weapons "disappear" with it.Varegg wrote:
Communism tends to break up from the inside and desolve itself so why interfeer ?
Taiwan?usmarine2007 wrote:
Doh...I meant the other country that ends in NVaregg wrote:
And how many nukes did Saddam have ?
Last edited by aardfrith (2007-02-22 09:00:33)
A lot of good that does when they don't cooperate with them.Varegg wrote:
That`s why we have IAEA isn`t it, to keep this under control ?usmarine2007 wrote:
Because when it breaks up, all the nukes and chemical weapons "disappear" with it.Varegg wrote:
Communism tends to break up from the inside and desolve itself so why interfeer ?
Last edited by Kmarion (2007-02-22 10:06:13)
The Iran "conflict" so far has gone by the book, IAEA is doing their job and the UN is doing theirs like it is suppose to be ...... okay we all know Iran isn`t doing their job and the UN security council puts pressure on them and the time frame ran out yesterday so it will be interesting to follow this in the next days to come ...ATG wrote:
Kind of like they are doing with Iran right now???Varegg wrote:
That`s why we have IAEA isn`t it, to keep this under control ?usmarine2007 wrote:
Because when it breaks up, all the nukes and chemical weapons "disappear" with it.
The IAEA is not doing their job, guess why.Varegg wrote:
The Iran "conflict" so far has gone by the book, IAEA is doing their job and the UN is doing theirs like it is suppose to be ...... okay we all know Iran isn`t doing their job and the UN security council puts pressure on them and the time frame ran out yesterday so it will be interesting to follow this in the next days to come ...ATG wrote:
Kind of like they are doing with Iran right now???Varegg wrote:
That`s why we have IAEA isn`t it, to keep this under control ?
And so far USA`s contribution have been a supportive addition to the UN to enforce the pressure
Last edited by Kmarion (2007-02-22 14:27:04)
Basically... sadly, too many Americans don't understand this.Pubic wrote:
See, half the people on this planet think they're killing "their people" but the people doing the killing don't think of them as "their people" at all...theres religious divisions, tribal divisions, ethnic divisions, and they are all a source of conflict.
Sadly, pulling out may be the best thing for Iraq even though it would possibly the the bloodiest.
What if the $500billion was spent on developing another country? Liberia was just given a debt writeoff by the US, what if all that money had been spent on building up that country rather than bombing Iraq? You'd have a nation which would be well on its way to enjoying the same standard of living that many Americans enjoy, and you'd have the whole world (except maybe Liberia's enemies ) chanting "U..S..A....U..S..A.." then.
Why not just let Iran have Iraq? If we move away from oil, the whole region can turn into a bloodbath for all I care.Ridir wrote:
And then we'll be back over there after Iran annexes Iraq and really starts to piss off the U.N. by following in Saddam's footsteps of not paying attention to it and give it a decade and we'll be in another war there. I'd rather finish it, even if it takes time. People want instant results to everything now and don't realize that some stuff takes time.CameronPoe wrote:
I don't know why you even care anymore. Iraq mission - /fail. No amount of additional violence on the part of the American military is gonna change that. Time to pack those bags and head home.
So fucking true....CameronPoe wrote:
Or you could concentrate on building defences, missile shields, espionage, border security, superior weaponry, trade embargos - the US is in unassailable position as regards military technology and equipment: why is a region 10000 miles away from America so bloody important to you? None of the nations there pose any realistic threat. What are they gonna do? Get Continental Airlines to fly the vanguard into Miami or something? If you spent 10% of the money you spent on Iraq on the things I mentioned then you would have nothing to fucking worry about.Ridir wrote:
And then we'll be back over there after Iran annexes Iraq and really starts to piss off the U.N. by following in Saddam's footsteps of not paying attention to it and give it a decade and we'll be in another war there. I'd rather finish it, even if it takes time. People want instant results to everything now and don't realize that some stuff takes time.CameronPoe wrote:
I don't know why you even care anymore. Iraq mission - /fail. No amount of additional violence on the part of the American military is gonna change that. Time to pack those bags and head home.
All you guys are proposing is war without end. A cold deterrency-based peace is preferable to a hot dynamic bloodbath.
The children man, do it for the children. ATG, a couple posts into the thread, mentioned the children as a reason not to pack up and leave. No one responded to that. IMO, that is why we can't leave. And you call yourself compassionate.CameronPoe wrote:
Ah - memories - my first two threads I believe. Back when I decided I would troll what was then a new forum to me and annoy as many people as possible, kinda like Major_Spittle. Weak Pollux, weak. As usual. How come you didn't bring up this thread:Fancy_Pollux wrote:
It's funny seeing CameronPoe accuse someone of being misguided on political views. This is a guy who claims he respects Fidel Castro the most among alive politicians, yet he takes offense when someone accuses him of supporting oppressive governments? While he puts on the guise of favoring "democracy and isolationism", his post history is tainted with anti-American bickering--a few of these gems are quite surprising. It's not about what side of the political spectrum the issue is aligned with, it is what side of the pro/anti-American spectrum it is on.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=29391
A thread I opened when I decided that I actually like the forum and decided I was gonna hang around and start being serious. We've had these arguments before - your problem being that you identify Americans too much with a government that only about half of them voted for.
I think you'll find I heavily criticised many of Fidel's policies, especially with regards to freedom of speech and travel, perhaps that didn't make it as far as your retina. I think I used the word 'cuntishness' in fact.
Well, your reasoning is certainly compassionate, but what about the children of Sudan? What about the children of the Congo? This is simply not about the children or human rights for that matter.rawls2 wrote:
The children man, do it for the children. ATG, a couple posts into the thread, mentioned the children as a reason not to pack up and leave. No one responded to that. IMO, that is why we can't leave. And you call yourself compassionate.CameronPoe wrote:
Ah - memories - my first two threads I believe. Back when I decided I would troll what was then a new forum to me and annoy as many people as possible, kinda like Major_Spittle. Weak Pollux, weak. As usual. How come you didn't bring up this thread:Fancy_Pollux wrote:
It's funny seeing CameronPoe accuse someone of being misguided on political views. This is a guy who claims he respects Fidel Castro the most among alive politicians, yet he takes offense when someone accuses him of supporting oppressive governments? While he puts on the guise of favoring "democracy and isolationism", his post history is tainted with anti-American bickering--a few of these gems are quite surprising. It's not about what side of the political spectrum the issue is aligned with, it is what side of the pro/anti-American spectrum it is on.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=29391
A thread I opened when I decided that I actually like the forum and decided I was gonna hang around and start being serious. We've had these arguments before - your problem being that you identify Americans too much with a government that only about half of them voted for.
I think you'll find I heavily criticised many of Fidel's policies, especially with regards to freedom of speech and travel, perhaps that didn't make it as far as your retina. I think I used the word 'cuntishness' in fact.
Last edited by Kmarion (2007-02-22 16:50:12)
True... we did do a lot of help for the tsunami victims as well.Kmarion wrote:
^^The government of Sudan has refused UN peace keepers. At least they have recently.
http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/displ … P0.3332941
http://www.indiadaily.com/breaking_news/84695.asp
Despite popular opinion we are not all bombs and guns .
i agree. completely. take a look back in history, folks. ancient history. Rome, Mongolia, China, the Persian Empire.Kmarion wrote:
It seems you guys have condemned ATG to be responsible for all the previous mistakes the Administration has made. Is it not possible to not support an invasion but at the same token understand what will happen now when there is a complete vacuum of authority? We have more people concerned with pointing fingers and looking back rather than dealing with solutions and the reality at hand.
The only part that we would need to be ashamed of would be that we installed Saddam in the first place.Ender2309 wrote:
i agree. completely. take a look back in history, folks. ancient history. Rome, Mongolia, China, the Persian Empire.Kmarion wrote:
It seems you guys have condemned ATG to be responsible for all the previous mistakes the Administration has made. Is it not possible to not support an invasion but at the same token understand what will happen now when there is a complete vacuum of authority? We have more people concerned with pointing fingers and looking back rather than dealing with solutions and the reality at hand.
all of these eventually had a power vacuum. all of them spiraled down at the pinnacle of greatness, to nothingness.
if America leaves, Iraq will be just another darfur, another bosnia.
and hey, guess what? when this happens, you're all going to turn around, and yell at america again....only this time, you're going to tell us that it's our fault for not staying, and we should be ashamed.
So you'd be happy for the iraqi people to be condemned to brutal warfare and violence, if it made Bush look good?ATG wrote:
Your an exhibit of the type of liberal that never gages consequence.jonsimon wrote:
So you're saying he should condemn people to brutal warfare and violence instead? C'mon, Poe wouldn't have invaded Iraq in the first place, so I guess its the conservative side that's condemning those people to their fate.ATG wrote:
Why condemn millions to slaughter? How can you claim to be a compassionate liberal and be so eager to abandon these people to their fate?
Like I said, your okay with failure, mores the better, as long as Bush looks bad and America learns its lesson who cares how many die, right?
I believe this is one of the only ways we in the West as outsiders can have any constructive input into the situation inside Iraq as the US will never be seen as objective in that region while they continue to arm and support Israel (a nation that many of the Islamic nations in the region see as a pirate state).Pug wrote:
A neutral third party brokers a deal