Ridir
Semper Fi!
+48|7050

Turquoise wrote:

Ridir wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

But wait, I thought Al Gore was full of shit in your opinion?  So, is he only speaking truth when he mentions Saddam in a threatening context?

Personally, I think Gore is much better suited for addressing environmental issues, because we've already proven this statement by him to be untrue.

Clinton also made the mistake of assuming Saddam was a valid threat in the late 90s, as did much of the industrialized world.

Maybe when we stop being so paranoid about the Middle East, we won't end up getting stuck in unnecessary and expensive wars.

Besides, Afghanistan and Pakistan are where our attention should be, not Iraq.
What makes you more qualified to assume if someone is or is not a threat to international relations?
Do you have a security clearance?
Are you briefed daily on international matters but a highly specialized and trained staff with support staffs ranging into the hundreds if not thousands?
Do you possess knowledge that will somehow focus the world's attention immediately where it needs to be every single time it needs to be some place?
Do you even know what a viable threat to international relations is?
Do you know everything that has happened "behind the scenes" that 98% of civilians will never know?


Didn't think so.
I'm sorry, Mr. Secretary of Defense.  I didn't mean to offend.

I'll go back to praising your infinite wisdom, if it pleases you, oh great one.

I mean, what the hell was I thinking?  Government always acts in the best of our interests.  Why would they ever lie to us?  I'm sure things like the Iran-Contra scandal, Gitmo, Abu Ghraib, Iraq, the Bay of Pigs, and Vietnam all involved our best interests.
Nice satire there.  And no, not everything will appear to directly benefit the people of the U.S. But here we go.

Vietnam: Controlling the Spread of Communism so that the U.N. and massive amounts of foreign trade embragos aren't levied against the U.S. and it's allies so that we lose the cold war.  Military wise we were winning the war.  Be it in battles or war of attrition, the VietCong and NVC were using more and more desperate measures, effect at first but desperate and ultimately failed till we withdrew.  If we had been there and stayed for the duration the NVC and VietCong could have lost and had no military or political power to wield.

Abu Ghraib was not the U.S. government but showing you the unprofessionalism that can come in any army over time.  Not only that but everyone from the enlisted personel  and their commanding officers were convicted per se the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) and international laws.

The Bay of Pigs: Failed CIA venture to control the spread of Communism.  The loss of the Cuban people was a serious blow and the fact that it became a public affair that the CIA was involved.  If it had been successful the last communist state would not be around but would have a pro democratic government in its place.

The Iran-Contra scandel was a failure all around, but without proper replacement parts most of the gear was useless within months or years.  Albit, it is a failure but could also be seen as a try for a diplomatic solution with a "radical" group.  This is what a lot of democrates insist we should always be trying to do, diplomatic solutions.

Gitmo is actually a lot of different things. It is a deepwater port for the US Navy so that we can project our forces better.  This is in defense of the U.S. coast and it's peoples.  Holding prisoners there is a good solution to a bad situation.  While holding unconfirmed "prisoners of war" can be viewed as a violation of international law it can also be viewed as a true statement when looking at all of the evidence.  Unknown to many people the CIA and US military had Osama Bin Ladin in their sights (as in a rifle sight) twice during the Cliton adminstration but due to not wanting to violate those laws they did not take the shot.  This is after it was confirmed that he had been either funding, leadership, or planner to a degree of somesort.  In otherwords we have every legal right to what happens there and we also have every legal right to that land and water.

Iraq:  The case is still open due to the fact that the conflict is not over.  The reason for waging war was legitament to make some of the firmest anti-war senators and congress(wo)men change their tunes into supporting it.  Of course everyone is going to jump on the "Oh, what a screw up Iraq is!" bandwagon.  With media not supporting it anymore it would be fool hardy for any politician to fully support the war if they wanted to get re-elected no matter their personal stance.  But even Cliton adminstration members, Al Gore included, are quoted as saying that Iraq would always persue WMD's as long as Saddam was in power.  And while WMDs from Iraq's government would not be a direct threat to us, they could be given to terrorist (something that wasn't past Saddam to do) to be smuggled into the States or used on Israel one of our allies.

So wait, yes, these actions could be discribed as in the best interest of the the citizens of the United States and/or our allies and Western European countries.
13rin
Member
+977|6765

Superglueman wrote:

Commie Killer wrote:

King_County_Downy wrote:

I'm pretty sure we have plans drawn up for just about every powerful nation in the world, just in case... in fact, I'd bet money on it.
We have plans for EVERY nation on Earth, for almost every possibility.
You truely are the most paranoid race that ever existed...

the end of the world obviously will be brought about by america (they will claim" ..well,  if we dont do it, someone else will" )...america's indifference towards seemingly everything surpasses  ww2 germany's or ancient rome's and all other tyrannical societies...

..and it doesnt suprise anyone that under your breath, you see even allies as enemies...
This is moronic.  Just google what Amadinajihad of Iran says on a daily basis.  The US will be the downfall?  I promise not to rub it in too much when we are saving ya'lls asses (or arses as you call it) again.

Last edited by DBBrinson1 (2007-02-21 22:33:39)

I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
Ridir
Semper Fi!
+48|7050

Superglueman wrote:

Commie Killer wrote:

King_County_Downy wrote:

I'm pretty sure we have plans drawn up for just about every powerful nation in the world, just in case... in fact, I'd bet money on it.
We have plans for EVERY nation on Earth, for almost every possibility.
You truely are the most paranoid race that ever existed...

the end of the world obviously will be brought about by america (they will claim" ..well,  if we dont do it, someone else will" )...america's indifference towards seemingly everything surpasses  ww2 germany's or ancient rome's and all other tyrannical societies...

..and it doesnt suprise anyone that under your breath, you see even allies as enemies...
And obviously you are a 92 year old woman with a beard.  You're wrong.  The United States is more likely to fall first then end the world.  And Americans are so indifferent to everyone else that is why they donate money and start sponsorships, to help 3rd world countries, search for a cure for AIDs, lead the world in Medical R&D, take an influx of immigrants far surpassing what the nation can support (based off our estimated growth via immigration and births, both immigrants and "home" born), and much much more.  Hence why we are more likely to fall then end the world.

Oh and also. every government can be overthrown, every military can be turned against it's allies, people can be influenced easily through a great speaker or charismatic leader.   It's not that we suspect our allies to be enemies, just that there may be some unforeseen event that comes to pass that would change their alligence to something then other than favorable towards us.

So I guess that makes the United States of America so evil that it will destroy the entire world and obliterate the human people as we know.
beerface702
Member
+65|6979|las vegas
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6834|San Diego, CA, USA
I find it funny that when the Democrats claimed we didn't have a plan when we attacked Iraq that they are pissed that we have plans to attack Iran.

In no way do I think we should occupy Iran.  We should support the locals in toppling their government from within.

We should, in the short term, knock out their Nuclear facilities and the bases near the Iraq/Iran border that are training/suppling terrorists in Iraq.

We should move out of downtown Baghdad and move 60,000 troops immediately on the border with Iran to stop them the inflow of support from Iran.

We should then put 40,000 troops in the Anbar province with the border with Syria to stop support there as well.

The rest of the 50,000 troops will patrol internal Iraq, focusing on al-Qaeda cells and supporting the Iraqi military/police with air strikes and logistical support.

All the while our air force should be taking out their SAM sites, Nuclear facilities, and bases along the border with Iraq.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6691|North Carolina

Ridir wrote:

Vietnam: Controlling the Spread of Communism so that the U.N. and massive amounts of foreign trade embragos aren't levied against the U.S. and it's allies so that we lose the cold war.  Military wise we were winning the war.  Be it in battles or war of attrition, the VietCong and NVC were using more and more desperate measures, effect at first but desperate and ultimately failed till we withdrew.  If we had been there and stayed for the duration the NVC and VietCong could have lost and had no military or political power to wield.
It failed for two reasons...  A. LBJ was a dumbass.  B. It was a guerilla war in unfamiliar terrain.

We could've won by just burning every inch of Vietnam to the ground, but WW3 would have likely resulted from it.  It was just a stupid idea from the get go.

Ridir wrote:

The Bay of Pigs: Failed CIA venture to control the spread of Communism.  The loss of the Cuban people was a serious blow and the fact that it became a public affair that the CIA was involved.  If it had been successful the last communist state would not be around but would have a pro democratic government in its place.
Again, bad idea from the start.  As a result of this stupid move, we had to deal with the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Ridir wrote:

The Iran-Contra scandel was a failure all around, but without proper replacement parts most of the gear was useless within months or years.  Albit, it is a failure but could also be seen as a try for a diplomatic solution with a "radical" group.  This is what a lot of democrates insist we should always be trying to do, diplomatic solutions.
Oh yes, it's very diplomatic to fund insurgencies.  Fuck that.  Any Democrat or Republican who supports that idea needs to be kicked out of office.

Ridir wrote:

Iraq:  The case is still open due to the fact that the conflict is not over.  The reason for waging war was legitament to make some of the firmest anti-war senators and congress(wo)men change their tunes into supporting it.  Of course everyone is going to jump on the "Oh, what a screw up Iraq is!" bandwagon.  With media not supporting it anymore it would be fool hardy for any politician to fully support the war if they wanted to get re-elected no matter their personal stance.  But even Cliton adminstration members, Al Gore included, are quoted as saying that Iraq would always persue WMD's as long as Saddam was in power.  And while WMDs from Iraq's government would not be a direct threat to us, they could be given to terrorist (something that wasn't past Saddam to do) to be smuggled into the States or used on Israel one of our allies.
This is why I'm not a Clintonite.  I'm an old school, antiwar, populist liberal.  Despite all the support the Iraq War had in the beginning, reality has proven time and time again that it was a serious mistake.  It will likely be seen nearly as bad as the Vietnam War.

Ridir wrote:

So wait, yes, these actions could be discribed as in the best interest of the the citizens of the United States and/or our allies and Western European countries.
Only by the blindly loyal....

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