BF2S Forums Why do these shootings happen so often in the UK?

Vilham wrote:

Exactly...

Mock all you want though. 6x higher homicide rate.. equal number of knife deaths. Shows legal guns = more homicides.

More guns + less crime. There actual research on this.


http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html

Varegg wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

There are many blessings to our cultural diversity, but there are some curses as well.  In general, the more diverse your country is, the more conflict there is, and hence, the more crime and violence there is.

Any statistics that show this ? Cause many countries in Europe have equally diversity as the US and dont shoot eachother at the same rate !

And besides the recent shootings in the UK the past shows it to be a much more peaceful country internally !

Well, let's take a look at the U.K. vs. the U.S. in diversity.

The U.K.'s ethnicities:  White British - 85.67%, White (other) - 5.27%, Indian - 1.8%, Pakistani - 1.3%, Mixed - 1.2%, White Irish - 1.2%, Black Caribbean - 1%.

The U.S.'s ethnicities: White - 74.67%, Black - 12.12%, Asian & Pacific Islander - 4.46%, Other - 5.99% (Hispanics are measured differently than all other races here, so they aren't shown in these numbers.)

The U.S. is clearly more diverse than the U.K., and our homicide rates are considerably higher.

Keep in mind that the U.K. is one of the most diverse nations in Europe, and they have higher homicide rates than a lot of other Western European nations.

The homicide rates are very low in Japan, South Korea, Norway, Sweden, Iceland, Denmark, Switzerland, Belgium, Greece, Ireland, and Portugal.  Japan, in particular, has a higher suicide rate than homicide rate.

Most of the countries I listed above with low homicide rates are quite homogeneous culturally.  I'm not saying diversity is solely a bad thing, but it does lead to cultural conflict, which in turn, leads to crime -- like murder.

lowing wrote:

UON wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6363713.stm

5th fatal shooting in about two weeks in South London. 

I'm sure a few years ago I could have told you exactly which crews were warring, if things are the same as when I left it's probably the Young Peckham Boys and Poverty Driven Children or similar given the area, but I don't know anyone involved in gangs since I moved out of the endz nearly 5 years ago.

So why do these shootings happen so often in the UK?

I am sure it is a mistake, obviously it is Americans going over to England and shooting up the place, just ask Vilham he will tell you, Cuz England has outlawed guns, so it is impossible for anyone to possess one.

Well done lowing. Your a retard. Im not even going to grace that with a none offensive reply.

Vilham wrote:

lowing wrote:

UON wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6363713.stm

5th fatal shooting in about two weeks in South London. 

I'm sure a few years ago I could have told you exactly which crews were warring, if things are the same as when I left it's probably the Young Peckham Boys and Poverty Driven Children or similar given the area, but I don't know anyone involved in gangs since I moved out of the endz nearly 5 years ago.

So why do these shootings happen so often in the UK?

I am sure it is a mistake, obviously it is Americans going over to England and shooting up the place, just ask Vilham he will tell you, Cuz England has outlawed guns, so it is impossible for anyone to possess one.

Well done lowing. Your a retard. Im not even going to grace that with a none offensive reply.

Surprisingly, he brought up a better point than you probably think.  I am way too lazy to type more but you guys can discuss it more...

usmarine2007 wrote:

Vilham wrote:

Tbh i dont care. Chav gangsters can shoot themselves as much as they want.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/4 … 06_203.gif Not too worried seeing as they dont happen "often" at all.

Does it honestly really matter how someone is killed?  Gun, knife, beer bottle, baseball bat?

In terms of combatting crime it does:  no need to worry about cracking down on guns if no-one's getting shot.

PureFodder wrote:

sfarrar33 wrote:

woah heavy deja-vu
i have no idea why there are so many shootings i mean i can't get a proper gun no matter how hard i try let alone even attempt to point one at someone

@ turquoise
you havn't factored in population density and overall population
try you are on the whole right more culture doesn't have to = more conflict
the fact so many people are packed together over a small piece of land = more conflict
as does more people in general
for instance

France:
land: 640,053 sq km; 545,630 sq km (metropolitan France)
population: 62,752,136
population density: 110 people per km² (metropolitan) no overall given but that doesn't matter since most of the rest of France is fields so the population density would be horrendously skewed
crime rate: 6941 (interpol 2001 so a little out of date)

UK:
land: 241,590 sq km (no metropolitan given)
population: 60,609,153
population density: 246 people per km²
crime rate: 9927 (interpol 2001 does not include scotland or Northern Ireland)

basically in france theres a similar population but near enough half the population density and a much lower crime rate.
so what i'm saying is cultural diversity might not be the cause of the problem (might aid it might slow it down a bit but i'm not sure as to the cause)

i used wikipedia and the CIA factbook for those who want to check btw

But the US has a relatively tiny population density (31 per square km) and they have a high homicide rate.

Well, we have a lot of empty land in Alaska and the West that skews the numbers. Really, the main problem would be in the urban centers, where population is packed into small areas. It's not just the big cities; smaller cities are experiencing overflow of gangs and drug dealers.

Turquoise wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

There are many blessings to our cultural diversity, but there are some curses as well.  In general, the more diverse your country is, the more conflict there is, and hence, the more crime and violence there is.

Any statistics that show this ? Cause many countries in Europe have equally diversity as the US and dont shoot eachother at the same rate !

And besides the recent shootings in the UK the past shows it to be a much more peaceful country internally !

Well, let's take a look at the U.K. vs. the U.S. in diversity.

The U.K.'s ethnicities:  White British - 85.67%, White (other) - 5.27%, Indian - 1.8%, Pakistani - 1.3%, Mixed - 1.2%, White Irish - 1.2%, Black Caribbean - 1%.

The U.S.'s ethnicities: White - 74.67%, Black - 12.12%, Asian & Pacific Islander - 4.46%, Other - 5.99% (Hispanics are measured differently than all other races here, so they aren't shown in these numbers.)

The U.S. is clearly more diverse than the U.K., and our homicide rates are considerably higher.

Keep in mind that the U.K. is one of the most diverse nations in Europe, and they have higher homicide rates than a lot of other Western European nations.

The homicide rates are very low in Japan, South Korea, Norway, Sweden, Iceland, Denmark, Switzerland, Belgium, Greece, Ireland, and Portugal.  Japan, in particular, has a higher suicide rate than homicide rate.

Most of the countries I listed above with low homicide rates are quite homogeneous culturally.  I'm not saying diversity is solely a bad thing, but it does lead to cultural conflict, which in turn, leads to crime -- like murder.

So you are mostly saying inbetween the lines that the 12% black population is to blame for the high crimerate with the "proof" you posted, great work and in the tradition of Fox news i guess.

This isn`t statistical evidence that proves your point even closely my friend, you have to do better than that.

You cant blame cultural diversity without further analysis to why and how the diversity leads to higher crime/murder rates.

Just a simplified comparison.

*Could a 12% black population in Japan cause the same murder rate as in the US ?
*Could the Japanese gun laws applied in the US cause less murders in the US ?

Vilham wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

Vilham wrote:

Well done lowing. Your a retard. Im not even going to grace that with a none offensive reply.

You're

damn it you done it again. /clap

"...you have done it again." or "...you did it again."

Varegg wrote:

So you are mostly saying inbetween the lines that the 12% black population is to blame for the high crimerate with the "proof" you posted, great work and in the tradition of Fox news i guess.

This isn`t statistical evidence that proves your point even closely my friend, you have to do better than that.

You cant blame cultural diversity without further analysis to why and how the diversity leads to higher crime/murder rates.

Just a simplified comparison.

*Could a 12% black population in Japan cause the same murder rate as in the US ?
*Could the Japanese gun laws applied in the US cause less murders in the US ?

Well, I'm not suggesting black people are all criminals, but most murder in America involves black people killing other black people.

I was actually alluding to cultural conflict in general -- I'm not blaming any one race; I'm blaming differences in values.  It's a lot easier to attack someone you completely disagree with than someone you agree with.  It's in human nature for differences in values and lifestyles to lead to prejudice, which then often leads to physical conflicts.

So no, I'm not the racist you seem to be implying that I am.

iamangry wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

iamangry wrote:

And I'm only in the suburbs 25 miles away from DC!

Herndon? Leesburg?

well, maybe 15, i honestly dont like to travel into dc to often... fairfax.

yeah, fairfax and dc (well, the parts of DC people think of in topics like this) aren't exactly similar places and you can only see museums so many times in your life.

Turquoise wrote:

Varegg wrote:

So you are mostly saying inbetween the lines that the 12% black population is to blame for the high crimerate with the "proof" you posted, great work and in the tradition of Fox news i guess.

This isn`t statistical evidence that proves your point even closely my friend, you have to do better than that.

You cant blame cultural diversity without further analysis to why and how the diversity leads to higher crime/murder rates.

Just a simplified comparison.

*Could a 12% black population in Japan cause the same murder rate as in the US ?
*Could the Japanese gun laws applied in the US cause less murders in the US ?

Well, I'm not suggesting black people are all criminals, but most murder in America involves black people killing other black people.

I was actually alluding to cultural conflict in general -- I'm not blaming any one race; I'm blaming differences in values.  It's a lot easier to attack someone you completely disagree with than someone you agree with.  It's in human nature for differences in values and lifestyles to lead to prejudice, which then often leads to physical conflicts.

So no, I'm not the racist you seem to be implying that I am.

I`m not implying that you are a racist but when you use statistics to back up a point you should check it first if it indeed backs up anything at all, anyone can do a quick search on the internet to find something to post that could possibly back up a point.

When you show the statistics with a conclusion to back up the numbers and not just the numbers itself - then we`re talking and thats a healthy debate.

But back to race ....... are we really that different ?

If you have a Japanese, a White American, an Afro American and a white European that went to the same school, lived in the same neighbourhood in the same nice little mountain town and their fathers where members of the same cosy country club !

1. Would they have different values ?
2. Would there be any cultural conflicts that could lead to violence ?

Cause if the 4 guys mentioned above could live and tolerate eachother even thought they have different skincolor and maybe prey diffrently ...... could segregation and alienating be the answer rather than cultural diffrences ?

*Why do poor people shoot eachother more often ?
*Why is it that the 12% black population is below average when it comes to poverty ?


So i dont think cultural diversity itself is enough to cause the conflict you are looking for, might be the tension between cultures that cause conflict but then again what causes that tension ?

Could it be the government alienating different cultures, this week we are supposed to like Israelis and hate Palestinians.

Just an example of when segregation backfires.

PLO was outlawed by the US government so they formed Hamas to counter PLO on their own turf, now Hamas have grown to be a bigger rebellion than PLO ever was and is now a bigger headache for Israel and the US with partners .....

So culture, religion and skincolor might not be the issue but poverty, segregation and alienating could be !

Nomer wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Varegg wrote:

So you are mostly saying inbetween the lines that the 12% black population is to blame for the high crimerate with the "proof" you posted, great work and in the tradition of Fox news i guess.

This isn`t statistical evidence that proves your point even closely my friend, you have to do better than that.

You cant blame cultural diversity without further analysis to why and how the diversity leads to higher crime/murder rates.

Just a simplified comparison.

*Could a 12% black population in Japan cause the same murder rate as in the US ?
*Could the Japanese gun laws applied in the US cause less murders in the US ?

Well, I'm not suggesting black people are all criminals, but most murder in America involves black people killing other black people.

I was actually alluding to cultural conflict in general -- I'm not blaming any one race; I'm blaming differences in values.  It's a lot easier to attack someone you completely disagree with than someone you agree with.  It's in human nature for differences in values and lifestyles to lead to prejudice, which then often leads to physical conflicts.

So no, I'm not the racist you seem to be implying that I am.

I don't really buy any of the culture conflcit criminological theories.  Isn't another of the more well known murder stats that almost 90% of all murders in the US are intraracial? Besides, per capita the South has higer rates for just about every violent crime (rape, murder, aggravated assault, robbery), which is the reason for theories such as the History of Violence/Southern Violence subcultural variations your see quoted and represented or referenced to.

Well, more than anything else, poverty leads to crime, and much of the South has a bigger problem with poverty than elsewhere.