For all the idiots who claim that New Orleans isn't worth rebuilding (as if hurricanes just magically hit there everyday), don't forget that the mouth of the Mississippi River (i.e. the grain highway of America) need some port to go through. New Orleans won't be as big as before for a while, but it's been through floods before and it'll eventually normalize. Besides, if we just gave up on a city whenever it's devastated, where would we end up living? Everywhere has some danger of being ruined by natural disasters, so we might as well just prepare for it.
Exactly, but people are stupid.ELITE-UK wrote:
why would they re-build something they know will get destroyed again unless it has very, and i mean very strong sea defences. imo they should pack N orleans up and move to safe ground
Yes, preparing for it would involve moving up river to higher ground -- not staying in the same vulnerable areas.UGADawgs wrote:
For all the idiots who claim that New Orleans isn't worth rebuilding (as if hurricanes just magically hit there everyday), don't forget that the mouth of the Mississippi River (i.e. the grain highway of America) need some port to go through. New Orleans won't be as big as before for a while, but it's been through floods before and it'll eventually normalize. Besides, if we just gave up on a city whenever it's devastated, where would we end up living? Everywhere has some danger of being ruined by natural disasters, so we might as well just prepare for it.
This same bullshit happens on the Outer Banks and in much of Florida, but since the government foots a lot of the bill, it just keeps happening over and over.
I was referring to the billions of dollars you're pouring into Iraq, with little to show for it, actually.Pug wrote:
-1 for you.ghettoperson wrote:
You'd rather waste them on other countries then?
I guess we can stop sending economic aid worldwide...is that your goal?
Good point.. I'd rather we focus on helping our own country deal with poverty before we bother with helping other countries.ghettoperson wrote:
I was referring to the billions of dollars you're pouring into Iraq, with little to show for it, actually.Pug wrote:
-1 for you.ghettoperson wrote:
You'd rather waste them on other countries then?
I guess we can stop sending economic aid worldwide...is that your goal?
I just hope the bring it up to above Cat 3 standards. That doesn't seem likely though.UGADawgs wrote:
For all the idiots who claim that New Orleans isn't worth rebuilding (as if hurricanes just magically hit there everyday), don't forget that the mouth of the Mississippi River (i.e. the grain highway of America) need some port to go through. New Orleans won't be as big as before for a while, but it's been through floods before and it'll eventually normalize. Besides, if we just gave up on a city whenever it's devastated, where would we end up living? Everywhere has some danger of being ruined by natural disasters, so we might as well just prepare for it.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
lol it is bush and they just got hit by a tornado lol bad luck here in the us
reaper_654 wrote:
SIG!
ok. so using smart people on bf2s forum logic.
1. we should not help anyone that lives anywhere that some natural disaster may occur. Ever. They are dumb for living there. Period.
Is that about right? You guys need to seriously be less asshole and more human. Or should I just make sure no aid goes your direction if you ever get hit by some random act of god? Does NO have problems? Yes. But giving up on it is so...un-American. Abandoning cities...jesus whats next? Why could they pull off public works projects during the new deal era that aren't were on a much more massive scale but now its 'run away'. WTF happened?
1. we should not help anyone that lives anywhere that some natural disaster may occur. Ever. They are dumb for living there. Period.
Is that about right? You guys need to seriously be less asshole and more human. Or should I just make sure no aid goes your direction if you ever get hit by some random act of god? Does NO have problems? Yes. But giving up on it is so...un-American. Abandoning cities...jesus whats next? Why could they pull off public works projects during the new deal era that aren't were on a much more massive scale but now its 'run away'. WTF happened?
We have more technology and knowledge now, yet all i hear on this fucking forum is 'give up'. Truly sad.The growth of the West in the postwar years led to the demand for projects there that strengthened the infrastructure. Disastrous floods on the Mississippi River inspired flood control projects. The federal programs of the New Deal provided funds, organizational structure, and workers necessary to complete projects on a grand scale.
That logic is flawed. I don't think people mean that we should stop giving aid to disaster struck areas, and I doubt anyone meant that people are stupid for living there. Like someone said before, New Orleans is sitting on silt, and I read somewhere that it's already below sea level, and is steadily sinking(dunno about this). Furthermore, if what somebody previously stated was true (levies being built to the standards before the hurricane) then is it honestly safe to resettle there? It's failed us once and destroyed many lives, do we really want to take that risk again? As for abandoned cities, that's always happened throughout history. Not only in the US.golgoj4 wrote:
ok. so using smart people on bf2s forum logic.
1. we should not help anyone that lives anywhere that some natural disaster may occur. Ever. They are dumb for living there. Period.
Is that about right? You guys need to seriously be less asshole and more human. Or should I just make sure no aid goes your direction if you ever get hit by some random act of god? Does NO have problems? Yes. But giving up on it is so...un-American. Abandoning cities...jesus whats next? Why could they pull off public works projects during the new deal era that aren't were on a much more massive scale but now its 'run away'. WTF happened?We have more technology and knowledge now, yet all i hear on this fucking forum is 'give up'. Truly sad.The growth of the West in the postwar years led to the demand for projects there that strengthened the infrastructure. Disastrous floods on the Mississippi River inspired flood control projects. The federal programs of the New Deal provided funds, organizational structure, and workers necessary to complete projects on a grand scale.
The problem isn't us not having the tech or knowledge, its our inability to apply it. (i.e. pre-Katrina Levies standards)
@OP It isn't a race/ethnicity/class issue. At least not explicitly.
That's the exact sentiment of many Americans who are approached to foot the bill for this thing. But if we want to rebuild it, we'd better protect it from the Gulf, or bring in a whole shit load of rock to raise its level somewhat. We've been watching National Geographic simulations for so long on a flooded New Orleans, that I think some people were just desensitized to the possibility.ELITE-UK wrote:
why would they re-build something they know will get destroyed again unless it has very, and i mean very strong sea defences. imo they should pack N orleans up and move to safe ground
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2007-02-14 16:57:21)
While I see what you're saying, my argument is that New Orleans proves that the federal government and the Louisiana state government are too inefficient and incompetent to properly rebuild New Orleans in a timely or affordable manner.golgoj4 wrote:
ok. so using smart people on bf2s forum logic.
1. we should not help anyone that lives anywhere that some natural disaster may occur. Ever. They are dumb for living there. Period.
Is that about right? You guys need to seriously be less asshole and more human. Or should I just make sure no aid goes your direction if you ever get hit by some random act of god? Does NO have problems? Yes. But giving up on it is so...un-American. Abandoning cities...jesus whats next? Why could they pull off public works projects during the new deal era that aren't were on a much more massive scale but now its 'run away'. WTF happened?We have more technology and knowledge now, yet all i hear on this fucking forum is 'give up'. Truly sad.The growth of the West in the postwar years led to the demand for projects there that strengthened the infrastructure. Disastrous floods on the Mississippi River inspired flood control projects. The federal programs of the New Deal provided funds, organizational structure, and workers necessary to complete projects on a grand scale.
That being said, yes, we should move the city upriver. Find higher and more stable ground.
That's not so unreasonable, is it?
What do we do with the ruins? Just leave them there? Besides, it'd probably be just as expensive (if not more) to recreate a major city up the river. You might as well ask Los Angeles to move off of a faultline.Turquoise wrote:
While I see what you're saying, my argument is that New Orleans proves that the federal government and the Louisiana state government are too inefficient and incompetent to properly rebuild New Orleans in a timely or affordable manner.golgoj4 wrote:
ok. so using smart people on bf2s forum logic.
1. we should not help anyone that lives anywhere that some natural disaster may occur. Ever. They are dumb for living there. Period.
Is that about right? You guys need to seriously be less asshole and more human. Or should I just make sure no aid goes your direction if you ever get hit by some random act of god? Does NO have problems? Yes. But giving up on it is so...un-American. Abandoning cities...jesus whats next? Why could they pull off public works projects during the new deal era that aren't were on a much more massive scale but now its 'run away'. WTF happened?We have more technology and knowledge now, yet all i hear on this fucking forum is 'give up'. Truly sad.The growth of the West in the postwar years led to the demand for projects there that strengthened the infrastructure. Disastrous floods on the Mississippi River inspired flood control projects. The federal programs of the New Deal provided funds, organizational structure, and workers necessary to complete projects on a grand scale.
That being said, yes, we should move the city upriver. Find higher and more stable ground.
That's not so unreasonable, is it?
As another poster mentioned, the land itself is the problem. With great difficulty and even greater expenses, the Army Corps of Engineers has been struggling to rebuild the levees to the point where they could withstand another Katrina. If they can't manage this, then why not move?UGADawgs wrote:
What do we do with the ruins? Just leave them there? Besides, it'd probably be just as expensive (if not more) to recreate a major city up the river. You might as well ask Los Angeles to move off of a faultline.Turquoise wrote:
While I see what you're saying, my argument is that New Orleans proves that the federal government and the Louisiana state government are too inefficient and incompetent to properly rebuild New Orleans in a timely or affordable manner.golgoj4 wrote:
ok. so using smart people on bf2s forum logic.
1. we should not help anyone that lives anywhere that some natural disaster may occur. Ever. They are dumb for living there. Period.
Is that about right? You guys need to seriously be less asshole and more human. Or should I just make sure no aid goes your direction if you ever get hit by some random act of god? Does NO have problems? Yes. But giving up on it is so...un-American. Abandoning cities...jesus whats next? Why could they pull off public works projects during the new deal era that aren't were on a much more massive scale but now its 'run away'. WTF happened?
We have more technology and knowledge now, yet all i hear on this fucking forum is 'give up'. Truly sad.
That being said, yes, we should move the city upriver. Find higher and more stable ground.
That's not so unreasonable, is it?
Inevitably, LA may truly have to move one day as well. You may claim either of these things is more expensive in the short run, but what about the long run? Surely, moving New Orleans upriver would be cheaper than having to completely rebuild New Orleans a second time.
Right before Katrina happened, they were examining the most dangerous natural disasters likely to happen in the US. Guess what was number 1. Yes, Hurricane hitting New Orleans and causing Lake Ponchawhatever flooding the city. When you are living in a bowl, next to lake that can fill that bowl up, and you are in a hurricane area that can cause this to happen, you need to think long and hard about living there. I understand it is not practical to just up and move everything, but slowly people should be persuaded to live just a little higher. We are not taling moving the whole city hundreds of mile away, just get out of the bowl.UGADawgs wrote:
For all the idiots who claim that New Orleans isn't worth rebuilding (as if hurricanes just magically hit there everyday), don't forget that the mouth of the Mississippi River (i.e. the grain highway of America) need some port to go through. New Orleans won't be as big as before for a while, but it's been through floods before and it'll eventually normalize. Besides, if we just gave up on a city whenever it's devastated, where would we end up living? Everywhere has some danger of being ruined by natural disasters, so we might as well just prepare for it.
Now that so much has been destroyed, for goodness sakes don't move back into the bowl.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
Another thread to talk about Iraq. Yay!!!ghettoperson wrote:
I was referring to the billions of dollars you're pouring into Iraq, with little to show for it, actually.Pug wrote:
-1 for you.ghettoperson wrote:
You'd rather waste them on other countries then?
I guess we can stop sending economic aid worldwide...is that your goal?
I figured I'd toss in my few cents worth of information here.
1. I was in NO in the days after Katrina with my hospital. Total devistation does not even begin to cover what happened there.
2. New Orleans is BIG. It's 350 square miles. 907 square kilometers. That's a LOT of rebuilding. For comparison it's about the same size as metro Auckland.
3. New Orleans was NOT the only area laid to waste by Katrina. The whole of the gulf coast, from New Orleans to Mobile, Alabama, was shredded. And yet, you never see the poor folks in Mississippi on TV complaining about how the government hates poor white people and won't help them reconstruct their destroyed homes.
Everytime I see Ray Nagin on TV, I want to take out a hit on the guy. I am SO TIRED of hearing about how the government doesn't want to help his ghetto, crime ridden city. Here's an idea: How about you hire some police officers that aren't on the take, and clean up the crime in your shithole. How about you get local businesses to pitch in their efforts to rebuild your city?
New Orleans is pooly sited. It doesn't matter how many engineers you hire from every country with experience on the planet, the sucker's still going to flood. Mother Nature is NOT a beast that you can tame with technology. She will make a bigger, badder storm, and kick your ass again for being so arrogant that you thought you could tame her.
Also, I watched that Top Gear show. They did mention that their trip was filmed a year ago, so keep that in perspective.
I guess what really gets me is that I personally know many, many people who lived along the Mississippi River during the flood in '93. I was one of thousands of locals, along with the national guard, who were on the levees, in the rain, sandbagging. And you know what? The levees still broke. There was still flooding. It was the most damaging flood in the history of the US. They estimate $20 billion worth of damage. 10,000 homes were lost. 15 million acres of farmland were flooded, and the crops destroyed.
And you know what? Life went on. People rebuilt their homes, replanted their farms, and went on with their lives. No one got on TV and blamed the government for the flood. They accepted that it was an act of God, and went on with their lives.
If the worthless folks in NO would get off their lazy asses, take responsibility for their actions, and get back to work, the government wouldn't have pay for things that aren't their fault. It is NOT the government's job to pay for your lack of insurance. That's the risk you run when you don't have it. Is it their job to rebuild the roads? Hell yes, and they are.
I just get sick of it. Quit fucking whining and do something. I have no pity for them.
1. I was in NO in the days after Katrina with my hospital. Total devistation does not even begin to cover what happened there.
2. New Orleans is BIG. It's 350 square miles. 907 square kilometers. That's a LOT of rebuilding. For comparison it's about the same size as metro Auckland.
3. New Orleans was NOT the only area laid to waste by Katrina. The whole of the gulf coast, from New Orleans to Mobile, Alabama, was shredded. And yet, you never see the poor folks in Mississippi on TV complaining about how the government hates poor white people and won't help them reconstruct their destroyed homes.
Everytime I see Ray Nagin on TV, I want to take out a hit on the guy. I am SO TIRED of hearing about how the government doesn't want to help his ghetto, crime ridden city. Here's an idea: How about you hire some police officers that aren't on the take, and clean up the crime in your shithole. How about you get local businesses to pitch in their efforts to rebuild your city?
New Orleans is pooly sited. It doesn't matter how many engineers you hire from every country with experience on the planet, the sucker's still going to flood. Mother Nature is NOT a beast that you can tame with technology. She will make a bigger, badder storm, and kick your ass again for being so arrogant that you thought you could tame her.
Also, I watched that Top Gear show. They did mention that their trip was filmed a year ago, so keep that in perspective.
I guess what really gets me is that I personally know many, many people who lived along the Mississippi River during the flood in '93. I was one of thousands of locals, along with the national guard, who were on the levees, in the rain, sandbagging. And you know what? The levees still broke. There was still flooding. It was the most damaging flood in the history of the US. They estimate $20 billion worth of damage. 10,000 homes were lost. 15 million acres of farmland were flooded, and the crops destroyed.
And you know what? Life went on. People rebuilt their homes, replanted their farms, and went on with their lives. No one got on TV and blamed the government for the flood. They accepted that it was an act of God, and went on with their lives.
If the worthless folks in NO would get off their lazy asses, take responsibility for their actions, and get back to work, the government wouldn't have pay for things that aren't their fault. It is NOT the government's job to pay for your lack of insurance. That's the risk you run when you don't have it. Is it their job to rebuild the roads? Hell yes, and they are.
I just get sick of it. Quit fucking whining and do something. I have no pity for them.
Florida was hit with several major storms and 4 hurricanes in 2004 (Charley, Frances, Ivan, and Jeanne). Granted we didn't rely on levies to protect us but you didn't see the wide spread looting here did you? Florida was much better prepared and the leaders had the experience to handle the season.blisteringsilence wrote:
I figured I'd toss in my few cents worth of information here.
1. I was in NO in the days after Katrina with my hospital. Total devistation does not even begin to cover what happened there.
2. New Orleans is BIG. It's 350 square miles. 907 square kilometers. That's a LOT of rebuilding. For comparison it's about the same size as metro Auckland.
3. New Orleans was NOT the only area laid to waste by Katrina. The whole of the gulf coast, from New Orleans to Mobile, Alabama, was shredded. And yet, you never see the poor folks in Mississippi on TV complaining about how the government hates poor white people and won't help them reconstruct their destroyed homes.
Everytime I see Ray Nagin on TV, I want to take out a hit on the guy. I am SO TIRED of hearing about how the government doesn't want to help his ghetto, crime ridden city. Here's an idea: How about you hire some police officers that aren't on the take, and clean up the crime in your shithole. How about you get local businesses to pitch in their efforts to rebuild your city?
New Orleans is pooly sited. It doesn't matter how many engineers you hire from every country with experience on the planet, the sucker's still going to flood. Mother Nature is NOT a beast that you can tame with technology. She will make a bigger, badder storm, and kick your ass again for being so arrogant that you thought you could tame her.
Also, I watched that Top Gear show. They did mention that their trip was filmed a year ago, so keep that in perspective.
I guess what really gets me is that I personally know many, many people who lived along the Mississippi River during the flood in '93. I was one of thousands of locals, along with the national guard, who were on the levees, in the rain, sandbagging. And you know what? The levees still broke. There was still flooding. It was the most damaging flood in the history of the US. They estimate $20 billion worth of damage. 10,000 homes were lost. 15 million acres of farmland were flooded, and the crops destroyed.
And you know what? Life went on. People rebuilt their homes, replanted their farms, and went on with their lives. No one got on TV and blamed the government for the flood. They accepted that it was an act of God, and went on with their lives.
If the worthless folks in NO would get off their lazy asses, take responsibility for their actions, and get back to work, the government wouldn't have pay for things that aren't their fault. It is NOT the government's job to pay for your lack of insurance. That's the risk you run when you don't have it. Is it their job to rebuild the roads? Hell yes, and they are.
I just get sick of it. Quit fucking whining and do something. I have no pity for them.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Good points by both blisteringsilence and Kmarion.Kmarion wrote:
Florida was hit with several major storms and 4 hurricanes in 2004 (Charley, Frances, Ivan, and Jeanne). Granted we didn't rely on levies to protect us but you didn't see the wide spread looting here did you? Florida was much better prepared and the leaders had the experience to handle the season.blisteringsilence wrote:
I figured I'd toss in my few cents worth of information here.
1. I was in NO in the days after Katrina with my hospital. Total devistation does not even begin to cover what happened there.
2. New Orleans is BIG. It's 350 square miles. 907 square kilometers. That's a LOT of rebuilding. For comparison it's about the same size as metro Auckland.
3. New Orleans was NOT the only area laid to waste by Katrina. The whole of the gulf coast, from New Orleans to Mobile, Alabama, was shredded. And yet, you never see the poor folks in Mississippi on TV complaining about how the government hates poor white people and won't help them reconstruct their destroyed homes.
Everytime I see Ray Nagin on TV, I want to take out a hit on the guy. I am SO TIRED of hearing about how the government doesn't want to help his ghetto, crime ridden city. Here's an idea: How about you hire some police officers that aren't on the take, and clean up the crime in your shithole. How about you get local businesses to pitch in their efforts to rebuild your city?
New Orleans is pooly sited. It doesn't matter how many engineers you hire from every country with experience on the planet, the sucker's still going to flood. Mother Nature is NOT a beast that you can tame with technology. She will make a bigger, badder storm, and kick your ass again for being so arrogant that you thought you could tame her.
Also, I watched that Top Gear show. They did mention that their trip was filmed a year ago, so keep that in perspective.
I guess what really gets me is that I personally know many, many people who lived along the Mississippi River during the flood in '93. I was one of thousands of locals, along with the national guard, who were on the levees, in the rain, sandbagging. And you know what? The levees still broke. There was still flooding. It was the most damaging flood in the history of the US. They estimate $20 billion worth of damage. 10,000 homes were lost. 15 million acres of farmland were flooded, and the crops destroyed.
And you know what? Life went on. People rebuilt their homes, replanted their farms, and went on with their lives. No one got on TV and blamed the government for the flood. They accepted that it was an act of God, and went on with their lives.
If the worthless folks in NO would get off their lazy asses, take responsibility for their actions, and get back to work, the government wouldn't have pay for things that aren't their fault. It is NOT the government's job to pay for your lack of insurance. That's the risk you run when you don't have it. Is it their job to rebuild the roads? Hell yes, and they are.
I just get sick of it. Quit fucking whining and do something. I have no pity for them.
And yes, I'd like to personally stick Ray Nagin's head in a wood chipper.
Yes im watching feet of snow pour down on my yard, the average area in my back yard has 3 feet plus, really measure out 3 feet! its a damn lot. And the snowbanks.... damn.... every snowbank is atleast 5 feet tall, ours are about 6-7. Lol its fun[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi wrote:
From what I understand most of the ppl didn´t get shit from insurance ...and 5000 should be enough for covering their rebuild or restart of their life?
I must say...i´m very glad i dont live in USA.....capitalizm at it´s worst..... I bet everyone feels the same about the snow in New York....why spend alot of money on shuffeling snow for decades, with the ecosystem out of balance it will only be more and more snow.....just move the damn place right....oh...shit ...my bad....rich ppl live there...sorry....
Get your act together Mr. Bush....your own ppl needs you more then the Iraqis ever have or will...
And your just spouting liberal media bullcrap so shutup
15 more years! 15 more years!
1. Those that HAD insurance did get what then paid for. In the US, if you don't sign up for flood insurance, you don't get shit if your house gets flooded. I really don't get why people don't sign up, its federally subsidized, but people are stupid. Now, there are cases, mainly involving State Farm, where the insurance company is paying engineering firms to blame the damage on things other than what caused them, and that's a crime. And they got caught. Mississippi's Attorney General is prosecuting them, as well as the myriad of private suits against them.[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi wrote:
From what I understand most of the ppl didn´t get shit from insurance ...and 5000 should be enough for covering their rebuild or restart of their life?
I must say...i´m very glad i dont live in USA.....capitalizm at it´s worst..... I bet everyone feels the same about the snow in New York....why spend alot of money on shuffeling snow for decades, with the ecosystem out of balance it will only be more and more snow.....just move the damn place right....oh...shit ...my bad....rich ppl live there...sorry....
Get your act together Mr. Bush....your own ppl needs you more then the Iraqis ever have or will...
2. $5000 is $5000 more than the federal government should have given them.... personal responsibility for the lose.
3. Onto the snow in the Northeast. NEWS FLASH: it snows all the time in the northeast. They're prepared for it. Do you see Byron Brown on TV bitching about how the federal government has a duty to come in and save the citizens of Buffalo from snow? Shit no you don't. And why? The people who live there take responsibility for their lives. If they live in an area where the power might get knocked out by snow and ice, do they whine for the government to come and get them? No, they get up off their lazy asses and go down to Home Depot and get a generator and some gas cans. They chop some extra wood for the fireplace.
If the former citizens of NO lived in Buffalo, they would all be frozen solid. And Ray Nagin would be telling CNN the reason they froze is the federal government didn't do its job. Rather than what I say, which is the citizens were morons.