BF2S Forums Helpful Insurgents

Major_Spittle wrote:

Fen321 wrote:

What will you be carpet bombing? Cities full of civilians....if so how will this provide overall stability in the country?.

Cities in Iraq if they become a threat after we leave.

Fen321 wrote:

Why is democracy more important to us than them....well that's simple, democracy was an afterthought used to excuse military actions in this country hence we will stick to it for as long as we can play off us spreading democracy. While at the same time through little stabs at their sovereignty with regards to 1. their foreign affairs 2. elected officials (comment by Condi with regards to current leaders being on borrowed time).

Your a complete idiot if you think that installing a democracy in Iraq was not the plan all along.  This is self evident to anyone with an 80+ IQ.

Fen321 wrote:

Uneducated Islamic retards.....well i'm sure you are entitled to your opinion with this regard, but you have to understand that the concept called democracy is something that took hundreds of years to materialize into what we now have in the states. Or do you think it happened in the span of 4 years? When you state that their religion does not tollerate "democracy, freedom, and individual rights" on what grounds do you make this claim or do you just through that in there because it sounds "right.".

Name all the great success stories of democracies in Islamic countries?  Gee, seems democracy spread pretty good in the rest of the world for just the last 150 years.  Why could it be that it is not catching on in the Islamic countries?

Fen321 wrote:

If anything i see a high degree of parallel between the early developments of protestantism in Europe, in that I'm referring to concepts of congregationalism, and that of Muslim counterparts to congregationalism.  While this region of the world does not have the SAME INSTITUTIONS for democracy it is still a flat out lie to state they Islam is incompatible with DEMOCRACY when you have countries within the region that up till now can be stated as being democratic..

I believe the quote is "democracy, freedom, and individual rights".  I guess Saddam led a Democracy in Iraq while he was in charge.

Alright for starters Once we do leave -- why oh why would we have the authority to "carpet bomb" anything in the country? And how in the hell are they going to be "threats" to the US? You do realize we are talking about cities here -- of which we cannot micromanage via any type of foreign policy, hence this is why Iraq needs a GOVERNMENT with some testicles which is a different story.

As for Democracy being the legitimizing reason for us being in Iraq you obviously don't know left from right when it comes to how the Nation state system works since the Treaty of Westphalia in 1648 -- if you fast forward it a couple hundred years you'll come to realize that in the early 20th century you will see a massive push towards making AGGRESSION ILLEGAL and not a legitimate form of means of dealing with problems. Hence, if country A has a particular style of government and country B wants to force country A to change you would run into a few barriers.

1. Sovereignty
2.Self-determination
3.UN Charter prohibiting the use of Force (exceptions apply)

Now, as i recall in the 2003 report by Colin Powell with regards to the reasons why we are going to invade Iraq -- DEMOCRACY -- is far from the legitimizing reason for the actions, because unfortunately the international community is not made up out of patriotically blinded people, hence the divergence in agreement with regards to the War in Iraq.

If you still think Democracy was the reason we invaded Iraq then I'm simply going to have to ask you to show me where you find such info leading to that conclusion.

150 years.... You do realize that during the LAST 150 years a fair amount of WESTERN nations were IMPERIALISTIC in that they had colonies through out the world and ruled over them-- and in doing so negating their sovereignty and self-determination. The US is not excluded from this list since we had a very good understanding of imperialist ways and managed to acquire the rest of the US by force.

As for the Islamic countries that have turned to Democracy in the last 150 years -- well that's a little different -- do you want to know why? Well you see the Middle East that you and I both know today DID NOT EXIST UNTIL THE END OF WWII . Hence......the identity crisis through out this region AND the authoritarian pattern of RULE which was a DIRECT result of being colonized by WESTERN powers.

Lastly the part about Saddam leading a Democracy in Iraq, I nor has anyone else to my knowledge stated that Iraq was a democracy.

Turkey, Israel, Iran (prior to last elections) are examples of democracy in the Middle East -- those that resemble the western styles of democracy that is -- the reason i differentiate between western style and the ones you would find in the Middle East is due to the fact that an informal style of rule is prominent through out this region due to the patrimonial style of rule you will find so as a consequence you can't compare the two.

Last edited by Fen321 (2007-02-15 16:17:27)

usmarine2007 wrote:

LaidBackNinja wrote:

Where exactly in that article does it say the insurgents were foreign? Does nobody wonder what the hell those insurgents came to that office for? What they were looking for? Where they got american uniforms?

No idea.  I just go off my own experiences and the experiences of people I know.

First mention of foreing fighters shows up about 4 posts down.

Bubbalo wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

Then they are in stealth mode.

Have you ever considered the fact that foreign insurgents are just maybe easier to find?

Yes.....becuase there are MORE of them.

Fen321 wrote:

Major_Spittle wrote:

Fen321 wrote:

Turkey, Israel, Iran (prior to last elections) are examples of democracy in the Middle East -- those that resemble the western styles of democracy that is -- the reason i differentiate between western style and the ones you would find in the Middle East is due to the fact that an informal style of rule is prominent through out this region due to the patrimonial style of rule you will find so as a consequence you can't compare the two.

You typed a lot of stuff because you are too stupid to understand what was said.  So this last part is pretty funny along those lines.  I say Islam is not compatible with Democracy, freedom, and human rights yet you say Islam is compatable and there are Islamic Democracys.

Your Prof of this is Turkey, Israel, Iran.

My only question is, Did you interrupt your day of sitting on the T.V. looking at the couch to come up with this reply?

Too stupid....


Too stupid.....

hmm i'll admit Israel isn't a good example of an Islamic democracy -- was picturing democracy in the ME so it come up -- but as for the other two...yeah they are democracies and what?

now i want you to man the hell up and actually respond otherwise you have to seriously wake up and smell the international system / history.

You win.

Very depressing story, and more evidence that we live in a world without karma.