Here is the bottom line...
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I predicted this in my first post in this thread.oug wrote:
So bottom line is, after 3 pages of discussion, that the basic argument funneling aggression against Iran is not necessarily true, or important for that matter...
I've gone through hundreds of threads where anyone who wishes to justify their hatred for Iran ends up using that line as their sole argument. The fact that nobody gives a damn in the end whether it may have been a product of bad translation or propaganda, and therefore untrue, is a clear give-away.
This seems to suit the US at the moment. The moron provides more than enough reasons for people to hate Iran...
oug wrote:
Its funny how the americans think they made europe a favour in WWII.
Its time to realise that you are today what germany was back in '39. So do your thing, and the rest of us will do our thing. At least the germans weren't looking for sympathy while trying to conquer the world.
Every blatantly anti-US user will side with Ahmadinejad simply because he shares the same anti-US stance as they do. Having read this, how can a rational person take anything oug says seriously?oug wrote:
I must however stand by what I said about Germany and the USA doing the same thing then and now. I think there's only one thing a superpower can do if they do not want to lose their status and position. So I'm not blaming anyone really, after all I think any country in your position would have the exact same policy. All I'm saying is you cannot expect the people you enslave to love you.
Last edited by Fancy_Pollux (2007-02-08 04:59:53)
Do you believe the US will nuke Iran and Venzuala just to get rid of them?Pug wrote:
I don't think I need to explain this to you...you're a pretty smart guy. It's pretty clear...I can repeat it if you wish.Bubbalo wrote:
And the US wants Iran and Venezuala to go bye bye. What's your point?Pug wrote:
The FACT is that Iran wants Israel to go bye bye.
So are you going to support your argument that you believe Iran and Israel are friends, or are you going to continue to derail?Bubbalo wrote:
Do you believe the US will nuke Iran and Venzuala just to get rid of them?Pug wrote:
I don't think I need to explain this to you...you're a pretty smart guy. It's pretty clear...I can repeat it if you wish.Bubbalo wrote:
And the US wants Iran and Venezuala to go bye bye. What's your point?
Funny how the only people who refuse to see the negative effects of the US foreign policy are Americans. "I don't care what GWB says or does, I'm on his side because he is an American like me". It's a sad and simple observation, but a true one.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
Funny how the only people who will buy into this crap are the most outspoken anti-US users on this forum. "I don't care what Ahmadinejad says or does, I'm on his side because he hates the US like me". It's a sad and simple observation, but a true one.
I predicted this when I posted mine as well. You see, as you yourself said, you only adress other users using their own posts to show how wrong they are. It's not because you have no opinion of your own... oh no...
Last edited by oug (2007-02-08 07:01:14)
ƒ³
Ummm....no...not true. Go look up GWB's latest poll. Unless you have your head in your ass there is no way people don't understand the impact the war is having on international relations.oug wrote:
Funny how the only people who refuse to see the negative effects of the US foreign policy are Americans. "I don't care what GWB says or does, I'm on his side because he is an American like me". It's a sad and simple observation, but a true one.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
Funny how the only people who will buy into this crap are the most outspoken anti-US users on this forum. "I don't care what Ahmadinejad says or does, I'm on his side because he hates the US like me". It's a sad and simple observation, but a true one.
It's not that I'm afraid of Iran using a nuke, it's their number one fan club Hezbollah getting a hold of a nuke I am worried about.Bubbalo wrote:
Do you believe the US will nuke Iran and Venzuala just to get rid of them?Pug wrote:
I don't think I need to explain this to you...you're a pretty smart guy. It's pretty clear...I can repeat it if you wish.Bubbalo wrote:
And the US wants Iran and Venezuala to go bye bye. What's your point?
Last edited by Kmarion (2007-02-08 07:03:37)
Xbone Stormsurgezz
lol if you read Fancy's post you'll see why I wrote that. I know it's not true. I just cannot be bothered to talk sense into people who are not willing to discuss anything. Btw what Fancy posted is not true either... didn't see you argue about that...Pug wrote:
Ummm....no...not true. Go look up GWB's latest poll. Unless you have your head in your ass there is no way people don't understand the impact the war is having on international relations.oug wrote:
Funny how the only people who refuse to see the negative effects of the US foreign policy are Americans. "I don't care what GWB says or does, I'm on his side because he is an American like me". It's a sad and simple observation, but a true one.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
Funny how the only people who will buy into this crap are the most outspoken anti-US users on this forum. "I don't care what Ahmadinejad says or does, I'm on his side because he hates the US like me". It's a sad and simple observation, but a true one.
ƒ³
zomg islamophobia zomg.Kmarion wrote:
It's not that I'm afraid of Iran using a nuke, it's their number one fan club Hezbollah getting a hold of a nuke I am worried about.
Last edited by usmarine2007 (2007-02-08 07:07:30)
That is not Islamophobia, that is fear for radical Muslims like Hezbollah. Islamophobia is fearing or hating all Muslims because of the actions of a few. More or less what you do.usmarine2007 wrote:
zomg islamophobia zomg.Kmarion wrote:
It's not that I'm afraid of Iran using a nuke, it's their number one fan club Hezbollah getting a hold of a nuke I am worried about.
Right...you didn't.oug wrote:
lol if you read Fancy's post you'll see why I wrote that. I know it's not true. I just cannot be bothered to talk sense into people who are not willing to discuss anything. Btw what Fancy posted is not true either... didn't see you argue about that...
I see groups of so called "moderate" muslims voicing support for the "extremists," including hezbollocks.sergeriver wrote:
That is not Islamophobia, that is fear for radical Muslims like Hezbollah. Islamophobia is fearing or hating all Muslims because of the actions of a few. More or less what you do.
They are the less, and that's the problem. The vast majority are cool people, but you judge them for the actions of a few, like I said before. Fuck extremists despite their religion.usmarine2007 wrote:
I see groups of so called "moderate" muslims voicing support for the "extremists," including hezbollocks.sergeriver wrote:
That is not Islamophobia, that is fear for radical Muslims like Hezbollah. Islamophobia is fearing or hating all Muslims because of the actions of a few. More or less what you do.
When I see college kids from all over the country doing the types of things in that video I posted, I see that as a problem. When I see the muslims who are not doing that, not make any comments or speak out against them, I see that as a problem.sergeriver wrote:
They are the less, and that's the problem. The vast majority are cool people, but you judge them for the actions of a few, like I said before. Fuck extremists despite their religion.usmarine2007 wrote:
I see groups of so called "moderate" muslims voicing support for the "extremists," including hezbollocks.sergeriver wrote:
That is not Islamophobia, that is fear for radical Muslims like Hezbollah. Islamophobia is fearing or hating all Muslims because of the actions of a few. More or less what you do.
If groups of white people were consistently walking through college campuses saying shit lie "anit-islam" or "down with allah," it would be ALL over the news world wide. Not only would it be on the news, but you would have every muslim leader calling for an apology and demanding the universities put a stop to it. You would also have a bunch of white people apologizing for it.
But we do not see that do we?
Right... whatever.Pug wrote:
Right...you didn't.oug wrote:
lol if you read Fancy's post you'll see why I wrote that. I know it's not true. I just cannot be bothered to talk sense into people who are not willing to discuss anything. Btw what Fancy posted is not true either... didn't see you argue about that...
Last edited by oug (2007-02-08 07:31:19)
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I see...oug wrote:
lol if you read Fancy's post you'll see why I wrote that. I know it's not true. I just cannot be bothered to talk sense into people who are not willing to discuss anything. Btw what Fancy posted is not true either... didn't see you argue about that...
oug wrote:
Its funny how the americans think they made europe a favour in WWII.
Its time to realise that you are today what germany was back in '39. So do your thing, and the rest of us will do our thing. At least the germans weren't looking for sympathy while trying to conquer the world.
oug wrote:
I must however stand by what I said about Germany and the USA doing the same thing then and now. I think there's only one thing a superpower can do if they do not want to lose their status and position. So I'm not blaming anyone really, after all I think any country in your position would have the exact same policy. All I'm saying is you cannot expect the people you enslave to love you.
Last edited by Fancy_Pollux (2007-02-08 07:37:14)
I wasn't talking about you.oug wrote:
Right... whatever.Pug wrote:
Right...you didn't.oug wrote:
lol if you read Fancy's post you'll see why I wrote that. I know it's not true. I just cannot be bothered to talk sense into people who are not willing to discuss anything. Btw what Fancy posted is not true either... didn't see you argue about that...
Do you now...Fancy_Pollux wrote:
I see...oug wrote:
lol if you read Fancy's post you'll see why I wrote that. I know it's not true. I just cannot be bothered to talk sense into people who are not willing to discuss anything. Btw what Fancy posted is not true either... didn't see you argue about that...oug wrote:
Its funny how the americans think they made europe a favour in WWII.
Its time to realise that you are today what germany was back in '39. So do your thing, and the rest of us will do our thing. At least the germans weren't looking for sympathy while trying to conquer the world.oug wrote:
I must however stand by what I said about Germany and the USA doing the same thing then and now. I think there's only one thing a superpower can do if they do not want to lose their status and position. So I'm not blaming anyone really, after all I think any country in your position would have the exact same policy. All I'm saying is you cannot expect the people you enslave to love you.
Fancy_Pollux wrote:
There is a difference between the dictionary definition of Liberal and what I like to call
the "Forum (or Internet) Liberal". The internet liberal, simply put, is an idiot. They have
no clue how the real world works (usually because they are very young) and make ridiculous
one-sided claims. Other internet liberals then rally in support.
ƒ³
What's your point? My post that you quoted describes exactly what you did. Are you trying some "prove your opponent correct" approach to this debate?
I don't know... I'm just bored right now so I'm playing your little game. Anyway, we derailed the thread... I'll delete my posts. BTW if you have anything to say about my original post or the OP, go ahead. Then again you could make me famous by quoting me some more
ƒ³
I don't see Ahmadinejad as being any better or worse than George W. Bush. He hasn't really done anything that Dubya hasn't done himself. Granted, denying the Holocaust was probably his most egregious move thus far and has done him few favours but that aside his intimidating posturing is reminiscent of The U.S.'s foreign policy. The U.S. government have been crying a lot lately about his desire to develop nuclear technology but the U.S. is gonna have to face the fact that if it wants to go around the world plundering everyone else's oil reserves these countries are gonna turn to alternative methods of producing power and like it or not nuclear power is one of those alternatives.
I also don't think Americans should moan too much about Ahmadinejad, the Americans are responsible for his popularity. Before Dubya launched his 'American plan for the new millennium' Iran was on the turn with a large majority of the youth population feeling increasingly disillusioned with the Mullah's. Now after the U.S. intervention in the middle east support is once again fully behind the far right Muslim leadership led by Ahmadinejad. If the U.S. had stayed out of their neighbourhood they may have opted for a more liberal political system themselves.
P.S. Do Americans not realise that their leaders have just replaced Communists with Muslims? America has always needed an enemy, Ahmadinejad is just one of the many poster boys we've had over the years.
I also don't think Americans should moan too much about Ahmadinejad, the Americans are responsible for his popularity. Before Dubya launched his 'American plan for the new millennium' Iran was on the turn with a large majority of the youth population feeling increasingly disillusioned with the Mullah's. Now after the U.S. intervention in the middle east support is once again fully behind the far right Muslim leadership led by Ahmadinejad. If the U.S. had stayed out of their neighbourhood they may have opted for a more liberal political system themselves.
P.S. Do Americans not realise that their leaders have just replaced Communists with Muslims? America has always needed an enemy, Ahmadinejad is just one of the many poster boys we've had over the years.
Americans should just be patient, aside from any radical change in the situation. Like I said before, the Saudi's seem to be handling this as we speak. In September Cheney met with the King, if you notice as soon as Cheney left thats when the price of oil went down. Saudi Arabia has pushed prices down and have rejected emergency meetings with OPEC. OPEC says we have to do something about the price per barrel and the Saudi's say they are headed in the right direction (Around 50 dollars a barrel). Things are getting really bad in Iran. The Ayatollah came out yesterday and has made threats to us yesterday saying we will attack you all over the world if you attack us, even though the President, Rice, and Gates have all said we were not taking military action against them. They are just trying to posture as the tough Islamic state against the US. This is because the people in Iran are starting to become very uncomfortable. This is mostly because their economy is starting to fall apart. Unemployment in Iran is between 30-40 percent (It's tough to have an accurate number since it comes from the government of Iran). Inflation is around 50 percent. The word is spreading inside Iran. If Iran collapses it will be because of Saudi Arabia not the US. In a Sunni/Shia war they are on opposite sides. Saudi Arabia knows that if the US fails in Iraq that the Shia will control the majority of Iraq. This is bad for Egypt and the Saudi's. They are playing the game "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" and they are doing everything they can to limit the influence Iran has via economics.
Essentially Iran has much bigger problems than the US even though their leaders are trying to scapegoat them all towards America. I feel the Saudis want to handle this and as our ally the US is more than happy to allow them.
Essentially Iran has much bigger problems than the US even though their leaders are trying to scapegoat them all towards America. I feel the Saudis want to handle this and as our ally the US is more than happy to allow them.
Last edited by Kmarion (2007-02-09 14:28:06)
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Post hoc ergo propter hoc
Seriously this is the BIGGEST and easiest logical fallacy to fall into.
Not that there isn't some shred of possibility in it, but this is just a claim based on a big assumption. Granted this is what is currently happening, but you can't state that because Chenny met his buddy this now happened.
The threat is based on direct attack which isn't really a threat unless we had plans on doing some sort of attack, and by all the posturing and threats we have been making in recent weeks it is really not that surprising.
Right now what you have in the Middle East is essential a "Cold War" per say and its coming down Sectarian lines. I gotta run out now i guess i'll follow this up later.
Don't get me wrong though....its all plausible
Seriously this is the BIGGEST and easiest logical fallacy to fall into.
Not that there isn't some shred of possibility in it, but this is just a claim based on a big assumption. Granted this is what is currently happening, but you can't state that because Chenny met his buddy this now happened.
The threat is based on direct attack which isn't really a threat unless we had plans on doing some sort of attack, and by all the posturing and threats we have been making in recent weeks it is really not that surprising.
Right now what you have in the Middle East is essential a "Cold War" per say and its coming down Sectarian lines. I gotta run out now i guess i'll follow this up later.
Don't get me wrong though....its all plausible
Mine is a theory of course. I figured that was a given. There are many facts in there though, such as the economy of Iran and the price of oil. It cost Iran nine time the amount to get their oil out of the ground compared to Saudi Arabia.Fen321 wrote:
Post hoc ergo propter hoc
Seriously this is the BIGGEST and easiest logical fallacy to fall into.
Not that there isn't some shred of possibility in it, but this is just a claim based on a big assumption. Granted this is what is currently happening, but you can't state that because Chenny met his buddy this now happened.
The threat is based on direct attack which isn't really a threat unless we had plans on doing some sort of attack, and by all the posturing and threats we have been making in recent weeks it is really not that surprising.
Right now what you have in the Middle East is essential a "Cold War" per say and its coming down Sectarian lines. I gotta run out now i guess i'll follow this up later.
Don't get me wrong though....its all plausible
Edit:Found this, I'm not just the only one with this idea..lol
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16772560/
Last edited by Kmarion (2007-02-09 14:36:35)
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Kmarion's theory is entirely plausible, everything in this world boils down to money. The U.S. have no great ideological opposition to Islam or Iran or anything like that, everything the U.S. does is based on financial reasons. Does anyone honestly believe the invasion of Iraq was carried out to liberate the people of Iraq? That it just happened to be sitting on one of the world's largest oil reserves? U.S. foreign policy is geared towards preserving it's status as a financial super power and if it's picking a fight with Iran i'd bet my bottom dollar it suits them financially to do so.
Likewise Iran stirring up anti American sentiment is a convenient way of deflecting attention away from it's domestic problems.
Likewise Iran stirring up anti American sentiment is a convenient way of deflecting attention away from it's domestic problems.
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