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2007-02-08 17:48:54
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,073|7220|PNW

Turquoise wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Christians believe that God gave us free will: the ability to do evil or good as we see fit. This was contrary to Lucifer's plan of absolute obedience to the law. It'd be a bit hard to tell what kind of person you'd become if you weren't allowed to choose.
True, but if God is omnipotent and omniscient, then some of us were literally made to be evil.  From our own perspectives, we have free will, but from God's perspective, it's all planned out.  Basically, some of us are designed to be the "bad guys" from the very beginning.  Others end up in situations where becoming evil is pretty much a given (suffering, abuse, etc.).  So yeah, we technically have free will, but everything is also technically predestined from God's perspective if he already knows everything that's going to happen.
Perhaps God is omniscient in the way that .999~ = 1. If he knew everything to begin with, then why put us through this whole ordeal? Or perhaps in knowing everything, he knows that people with a free will have a chance to change and adapt. There are people who have grown up in aberrant conditions who have become excellent parents. People without a free will have no say in their lives, thus nullifying the whole experience of life.

Ty wrote:

Holy Fuck.
As to your God comment, (and the rebuttals,) there is a famous quote something along the lines of this: "Evil prospers when good people do nothing."
Now God is seen as the ultimate good right, yet supposedly he just lets us do what we do. He does nothing when terrible shit like this happens. God is bullshit.

Absolute reliance on a deity to personally dictate every aspect of your life isn't exactly character-building, and I'm sure He has better things to do.
For a second I'm going to argue like he exists.
Maybe so, but the big dude needs to do some serious smiting, especially in extreme circumstances as this. He has absoloutly nothing better to do, I know this because he hasn't done jack shit in a long fucking time.
Or maybe God just wants us to take care of ourselves. You know, a "grow the Hell up" kind of thing.
2007-02-08 17:48:54
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6828|MN
True about protestants, but I am a firm believer in the bible, not a religion.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
2007-02-08 17:49:32
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7214|Cambridge (UK)
If ever there was a good reason to have 'eye for an eye' style punishments, this is it...
2007-02-08 17:50:33
Des.Kmal
Member
+917|7066|Atlanta, Georgia, USA

usmarine2007 wrote:

Des.Kmal wrote:

usmarine-im a fucking retard wrote:

How the fuck can God let shit like this happen?

And, why the fuck would you worship someone who supposedly has the power to stop this but doesn't?
you are the most ignorant person i know, wow. it is bad shit, people have free choice, as we do. and they decide, God just watches. im sorry if you think its wrong, i dont care.

you should understand one day, even if that day is Judgment day.
Ignorant?  I went to 12 years of catholic school, so it is kind of hard to say I am ignorant on the subject.

Enjoy your judgment day, I will enjoy my dirt nap.
lol, i actually kind of find you funny tbh. its sad seeing people who are so weak minded that they need proof on everything to believe it. oh well. we will see.
Add me on Origin for Battlefield 4 fun: DesKmal
2007-02-08 17:51:54
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6815|Columbus, Ohio

Des.Kmal wrote:

lol, i actually kind of find you funny tbh. its sad seeing people who are so weak minded that they need proof on everything to believe it. oh well. we will see.
I have my proof.  Read the story.
2007-02-08 17:57:33
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6853|North Carolina

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Christians believe that God gave us free will: the ability to do evil or good as we see fit. This was contrary to Lucifer's plan of absolute obedience to the law. It'd be a bit hard to tell what kind of person you'd become if you weren't allowed to choose.
True, but if God is omnipotent and omniscient, then some of us were literally made to be evil.  From our own perspectives, we have free will, but from God's perspective, it's all planned out.  Basically, some of us are designed to be the "bad guys" from the very beginning.  Others end up in situations where becoming evil is pretty much a given (suffering, abuse, etc.).  So yeah, we technically have free will, but everything is also technically predestined from God's perspective if he already knows everything that's going to happen.
Perhaps God is omniscient in the way that .999~ = 1. If he knew everything to begin with, then why put us through this whole ordeal? Or perhaps in knowing everything, he knows that people with a free will have a chance to change and adapt. There are people who have grown up in aberrant conditions who have become excellent parents. People without a free will have no say in their lives, thus nullifying the whole experience of life.
Maybe God isn't really omniscient...  or omnipotent for that matter.  Some interpretations of Mormonism have an idea that the being we call God was once a mortal that passed this test we call life with a "perfect" score.  The inherent idea is that each of us can become a God, but it's just nigh impossible.

Most things about Mormonism seem pretty loony to me, but they have a lot of afterlife and divinity ideas that seem more comprehensible than the traditional explanations.

Nevertheless, we'll continue to act on what we perceive as free will, regardless of whether or not God exists.
2007-02-08 17:57:35
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7214|Cambridge (UK)

Des.Kmal wrote:

lol, i actually kind of find you funny tbh. its sad seeing people who are so weak minded that they need proof on everything to believe it. oh well. we will see.
Wierd. You think that requiring evidence and proof is "weak minded"???
2007-02-08 17:58:42
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6853|North Carolina

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Des.Kmal wrote:

lol, i actually kind of find you funny tbh. its sad seeing people who are so weak minded that they need proof on everything to believe it. oh well. we will see.
Wierd. You think that requiring evidence and proof is "weak minded"???
Yep...  pretty amusing, isn't it?...
2007-02-08 18:02:04
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7214|Cambridge (UK)

Turquoise wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Des.Kmal wrote:

lol, i actually kind of find you funny tbh. its sad seeing people who are so weak minded that they need proof on everything to believe it. oh well. we will see.
Wierd. You think that requiring evidence and proof is "weak minded"???
Yep...  pretty amusing, isn't it?...
'Sad' is the word I was thinking of.
2007-02-08 18:14:37
jkg1389
The Sound Of Silence
+9|6913

HURLEY wrote:

Roger Lesboules wrote:

Both of them are sick fucker...They shall die in a fire.

Also @ usmarine: For your question on why would god let shit like those happen. This is exactly why i don't believe anymore in any kind of "Superior" life like Gods and such...If god really made us...why the fuck would he let us murder each other and die in horrible way "Sickness" and those kind of shit...AIDS etc etc.
The AIDS is your fault if you get it buddy, if you live the way as "god" wants you to and your wife does the same without having sex until your married... then you dont get an STD. duurrrzz

And Major_Spittle, wow.... I hope that was a joke.

I feel bad for that girl and all those others out there who suffer just as much.
Are you kidding, AIDS is always your fault if you get it. Umm... I think the millions of Africans, hell, the millions around the world born with AIDS would disagree. AIDS isn't just an STD. duurrrzz
Additionally, what the fuck do you say about cancer, car accidents, and genetic disorders.
If God is all powerfull and all good, he would do everything in his power (by defenition:everything) to stop evil. And if you don't think this is evil, your'e just as sick as they are.
2007-02-08 18:19:17
jet burned
Banned
+13|7074|Irving, Texas, USA
'His Dark Materials' trilogy.
Socrates pondered on this to:
If God is all powerful, how can man have free will?
If men don't have free will, how can we be blamed?

Seems a tyrant if he exists. He really doesn't seem like the merciful one he's preached to be.

Last edited by jet burned (2007-02-08 18:24:05)

2007-02-08 18:32:15
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7214|Cambridge (UK)

jet burned wrote:

'His Dark Materials' trilogy.
Is that that Phillip Pulman (?) trilogy that starts with "Northern Lights" ? Bloody good trilogy if it is...
2007-02-08 18:39:53
topthrill05
Member
+125|7026|Rochester NY USA
So is God gonna take a sniper rifle and shoot the person before they do such a horrible thing? When that would go right against what he preaches about free will?

I didn't think so.
2007-02-08 18:53:35
Des.Kmal
Member
+917|7066|Atlanta, Georgia, USA

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Des.Kmal wrote:

usmarine-im a fucking retard wrote:

How the fuck can God let shit like this happen?

And, why the fuck would you worship someone who supposedly has the power to stop this but doesn't?
you are the most ignorant person i know, wow. it is bad shit, people have free choice, as we do. and they decide, God just watches. im sorry if you think its wrong, i dont care.

you should understand one day, even if that day is Judgement day.
No sir, you are ignorant for trying to force your beliefs on some one and then saying they are idiots for not agreeing.

Believe whatever you want, just don't tell me I'm a retard if I don't BELIEVE what you do.
nonono, you totally misunderstood my quote.

if someone said ur dad was a bad person, would you get mad? i woud.

i didnt call you a retard (usmarine) for not believing the way i do. i called you a retard for the ignorant way you put it (in a condescending tone)
Add me on Origin for Battlefield 4 fun: DesKmal
2007-02-08 19:42:39
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,993|7080|949

Des.Kmal wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Des.Kmal wrote:


you are the most ignorant person i know, wow. it is bad shit, people have free choice, as we do. and they decide, God just watches. im sorry if you think its wrong, i dont care.

you should understand one day, even if that day is Judgement day.
No sir, you are ignorant for trying to force your beliefs on some one and then saying they are idiots for not agreeing.

Believe whatever you want, just don't tell me I'm a retard if I don't BELIEVE what you do.
nonono, you totally misunderstood my quote.

if someone said ur dad was a bad person, would you get mad? i woud.

i didnt call you a retard (usmarine) for not believing the way i do. i called you a retard for the ignorant way you put it (in a condescending tone)
No, if some one said my dad was a bad person I would laugh in his/her face.  I have too little time to care about what some one says over the internet about my dad.

But please for the love of Satan don't say that evolution is wrong, because it makes you look retarded.

My dad has medal from real war.  Respect dad I love you always.
2007-02-08 19:47:06
Towelly
It's A State Of Mind
+399|7039|Your attic
This would be one of those times when the death penalty wouldn't be near enough of a punishment.
2007-02-08 20:23:33
Volatile
Member
+252|7152|Sextupling in Empire

Sooo.....Is giving your unloved child up for adoption a difficult process or something? Seriously, just hand the child over to the state. No suffering, no jail time = everyone happy.
2007-02-08 20:24:55
T0rr3nt
Member
+54|7025|Michigan
if it werent for the bad, how would you tell the good?
2007-02-08 20:32:24
bobby177
Member
+129|6922|Texas.. getting out asap
I love how all the pro-religion people ignore all the good arguments and just respond to the poorly thought out ones in every thread like this
2007-02-08 21:45:34
iamangry
Member
+59|7093|The United States of America

Major_Spittle wrote:

If Bush didn't invade Iraq then the UK would not have distracted from domestic policies and none of this would have happened.

Republicans are to blame.
If people like you weren't around, 911 wouldn't have happened and Bush wouldn't have had any reason to go to Iraq, and the UK would not have been distracted from domestic policies and none of this would have happened.

Your mom is to blame.
2007-02-08 21:48:46
Smithereener
Member
+138|6764|California
10.5 and 11.5 years in prison... Only?

Those kinds of monstrosities deserves at the least life in prison.
2007-02-08 21:56:44
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7123|Canberra, AUS
Shoot them. Then castrate them. Shoot them again. Throw them in their fire. Then stab them several times. Then electrocute them while being lynched.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2007-02-08 22:38:57
Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|7223|Noizyland

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Or maybe God just wants us to take care of ourselves. You know, a "grow the Hell up" kind of thing.
Sure, good cover. When a parent dosn't correct a child when they do wrong either from indifferance or because they want their child to 'grow up' as you put it, and the child does something terrible, we call that bad parenting. God is exempt from this? And one must remember, he is all powerful, all knowing and does NOTHING. As usmarine has said, how can you respect someone, anyone who can stop a travesty of this nature occuring but does nothing - regardless of intention.

Des.Kmal wrote:

lol, i actually kind of find you funny tbh. its sad seeing people who are so weak minded that they need proof on everything to believe it. oh well. we will see.
That makes me laugh. Here you call usmarine weak minded for asking for proof for the existance of some kind of divine magician, yet apparently you as the strong minded one, (har har,) are quite content to let a book written in 350 AD, (ish,) govern your views on life. You believe what you're told by the afforementioned book and what those who have studied this book tell you without seeking anything resembling proof. To me, questioning something is far more strong minded then accepting what you're told.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
2007-02-08 23:01:23
misfire00
Lead Magnet
+26|7229|Charleston SC - USA

usmarine2007 wrote:

"Samuel Duncan, 27, and his 23-year-old partner, Kimberly Harte, kicked and scalded the girl, who has cerebral palsy, and also pulled out her hair."

"The little girl had boiling water poured over her hands, had huge clumps of hair ripped from her head, was kicked so hard in the groin she suffered internal injuries and was locked naked in the toilet each night."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6343693.stm

For those of you who believe in God...

How the fuck can God let shit like this happen?

And, why the fuck would you worship someone who supposedly has the power to stop this but doesn't?
This is why I own firearms and maintain a good demeanor. 

147 grains of heavy metal traveling at 2660 f/p/s will change your intentions in a heart beat.

They shouldn't have that luxury – it’s too quick and painless. Your in shock and dying from blood lose. That’s a slow leisurely sleepy way of passing.  Perhaps a red hot fire poker to the arm pit and thigh would suit these monsters better.
2007-02-08 23:08:35
Jalabad
Member
+7|6915
Seriously, 10 years for THAT? Life sentence would be much more appropriate.

 

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