I know. I just found it funny that an oil company is basically paying for it.crimson_grunt wrote:
Because seemingly a majority of people in here think global warming IS a problem where as to earn the money you would have to prove global warming IS NOT a problem.usmarine2007 wrote:
Why argue here.....go make some money......
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070202/pl … 0202142458
Yeah it's pretty blatant. Wonder if they'll manage to bribe anyone.usmarine2007 wrote:
I know. I just found it funny that an oil company is basically paying for it.crimson_grunt wrote:
Because seemingly a majority of people in here think global warming IS a problem where as to earn the money you would have to prove global warming IS NOT a problem.usmarine2007 wrote:
Why argue here.....go make some money......
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070202/pl … 0202142458
That's not at all dodgy.usmarine2007 wrote:
Why argue here.....go make some money......
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070202/pl … 0202142458
The funding for the group who want to fund scientists who dispute global warming comes from ExxonMobil, who have been very active in trying to prevent these global warming conferences being taken seriously. They were the ones who funded Frederick Seitz for his contributions to the laughable OISM report and many other very low grade scientific papers (most of which I have read/laughed my way through). Yet ExxonMobil have also made this statement:
(extract from letter to BBC Newsnight)ExxonMobil wrote:
We know that carbon emissions are one of the factors that contribute to climate change - we don't debate or dispute this. We agree with scientific assessments which conclude that climate change poses risks that may prove to be significant for society and ecosystems.
They claim they "do not debate or dispute [global warming]", they claim they "agree with scientific assessments which conclude that climate change poses risks that may prove to be significant for society and ecosystems", yet they continue to fund bogus reports that have a very specific agenda from their outset. Which is it?
It seems very much that it is in their best interests to promote doubt in global warming. It certainly seems to be helping their profits. One of the reasons I never, ever buy fuel from ExxonMobil (Esso in the UK) petrol stations.
Last edited by Bertster7 (2007-02-02 08:47:16)
my thought is this: the earth does have fluctuations in temperature, there is no arguing that. but i feel that there is a good chance that humans have aided the natural cycle in increasing the global temperature. Restated: I think that humans have accelerated global warming, meaning that it is occuring regardless of us, but we are definetly helping it along.
Remember Me As A Time Of Day
That's exactly what the scientists at this conference are saying. There is a natural warming (and cooling) cycle, but we have inreased the rate of change to a dangerous extent.heggs wrote:
my thought is this: the earth does have fluctuations in temperature, there is no arguing that. but i feel that there is a good chance that humans have aided the natural cycle in increasing the global temperature. Restated: I think that humans have accelerated global warming, meaning that it is occuring regardless of us, but we are definetly helping it along.
Last edited by Bertster7 (2007-02-02 08:58:37)
What is the big problem with increasing it, so what it happens 20k years sooner. In the grand sceme of things that doesn't seem to bad.Bertster7 wrote:
That's exactly what the scientists at this conference are saying. There is a natural warming (and cooling) cycle, but we have inreased the rate of change to a dangerous extent.heggs wrote:
my thought is this: the earth does have fluctuations in temperature, there is no arguing that. but i feel that there is a good chance that humans have aided the natural cycle in increasing the global temperature. Restated: I think that humans have accelerated global warming, meaning that it is occuring regardless of us, but we are definetly helping it along.
Are you saying their won't be another Ice age brought on by it or something? Hell, the earth could use a few billion people wiped out over the course of the next 2K years.
If the polar Ice caps melt their will be larger oceans with more plankton and algae. This mean more food, less CO2, more evaporation which means more rain and more plant life. Its all good. So whenever life gets you down Mr. Bertster, just remember this.....
Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at 900 miles an hour
That's orbiting at 19 miles a second, so it's reckoned
A sun that is the source of all our power
The sun and you and me, and all the stars that we can see
Are moving at a million miles a day
In an outer spiral arm, at 40,000 miles an hour
Of the galaxy we call the Milky Way
Our galaxy itself contains 100 billion stars
It's 100,000 light-years side-to-side
It bulges in the middle, 16,000 light-years thick
But out by us it's just 3000 light-years wide
We're 30,000 light-years from galactic central point
We go round every 200 million years
And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions
In this amazing and expanding universe
The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whiz
As fast as it can go, at the speed of light you know
Twelve million miles a minute and that's the fastest speed there is
So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure
How amazingly unlikely is your birth
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space
Because there's bugger all down here on Earth
Exactly, people feel the need to through out huge numbers and our position in the universe in order to try in convince us that life is not fragile. That's pretty arrogant if you ask me, especially considering we have yet to find sustainable life anywhere else in the universe. We have made our mark on the cycle and our Grand children will deal with the consequences. The "it's not going to affect me attitude is highly irresponsible." Some of us our bound by our moral conscience.Bertster7 wrote:
That's exactly what the scientists at this conference are saying. There is a natural warming (and cooling) cycle, but we have increased the rate of change to a dangerous extent.heggs wrote:
my thought is this: the earth does have fluctuations in temperature, there is no arguing that. but i feel that there is a good chance that humans have aided the natural cycle in increasing the global temperature. Restated: I think that humans have accelerated global warming, meaning that it is occuring regardless of us, but we are definetly helping it along.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Tbh based on that comment you have shown you realy DONT know how GW works.usmarine2007 wrote:
What you see? Fair enough. I see it is not going to get above 15F at all this weekend. That is cold as hell. I believe what I can see also.ELITE-UK wrote:
but believe in god, when theres no proof of him at all?
i believe in what i see, and be realistic!
I know they have been saying it since I was a kid. They also said we would have colonies on the moon when I was a kid also.Vilham wrote:
Tbh based on that comment you have shown you realy DONT know how GW works.usmarine2007 wrote:
What you see? Fair enough. I see it is not going to get above 15F at all this weekend. That is cold as hell. I believe what I can see also.ELITE-UK wrote:
but believe in god, when theres no proof of him at all?
i believe in what i see, and be realistic!
So basically your saying (like my friend did the other day) that you arent bothered if humanity goes fucked up (yet my friend says he cares about humanity).Major_Spittle wrote:
What is the big problem with increasing it, so what it happens 20k years sooner. In the grand sceme of things that doesn't seem to bad.Bertster7 wrote:
That's exactly what the scientists at this conference are saying. There is a natural warming (and cooling) cycle, but we have inreased the rate of change to a dangerous extent.heggs wrote:
my thought is this: the earth does have fluctuations in temperature, there is no arguing that. but i feel that there is a good chance that humans have aided the natural cycle in increasing the global temperature. Restated: I think that humans have accelerated global warming, meaning that it is occuring regardless of us, but we are definetly helping it along.
Are you saying their won't be another Ice age brought on by it or something? Hell, the earth could use a few billion people wiped out over the course of the next 2K years.
If the polar Ice caps melt their will be larger oceans with more plankton and algae. This mean more food, less CO2, more evaporation which means more rain and more plant life. Its all good. So whenever life gets you down Mr. Bertster, just remember this.....
Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at 900 miles an hour
That's orbiting at 19 miles a second, so it's reckoned
A sun that is the source of all our power
The sun and you and me, and all the stars that we can see
Are moving at a million miles a day
In an outer spiral arm, at 40,000 miles an hour
Of the galaxy we call the Milky Way
Our galaxy itself contains 100 billion stars
It's 100,000 light-years side-to-side
It bulges in the middle, 16,000 light-years thick
But out by us it's just 3000 light-years wide
We're 30,000 light-years from galactic central point
We go round every 200 million years
And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions
In this amazing and expanding universe
The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whiz
As fast as it can go, at the speed of light you know
Twelve million miles a minute and that's the fastest speed there is
So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure
How amazingly unlikely is your birth
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space
Because there's bugger all down here on Earth
While i understand the meritorious cause behind informing the public of the real dangers of climate change. I find it rather difficult to approach a solution that will not destroy the worlds economies. Hence, my cynicism over the situation....because lets face it greedy people with a lot of money involved in the current economy rather die 25 years down the road richer than to save the world for future generations.
And quite simply they are you could call them traitors to the human race.. Money is never more important than our existence.
Yeah, yeah, but you can't always look on the bright side of life.Major_Spittle wrote:
What is the big problem with increasing it, so what it happens 20k years sooner. In the grand sceme of things that doesn't seem to bad.Bertster7 wrote:
That's exactly what the scientists at this conference are saying. There is a natural warming (and cooling) cycle, but we have inreased the rate of change to a dangerous extent.heggs wrote:
my thought is this: the earth does have fluctuations in temperature, there is no arguing that. but i feel that there is a good chance that humans have aided the natural cycle in increasing the global temperature. Restated: I think that humans have accelerated global warming, meaning that it is occuring regardless of us, but we are definetly helping it along.
Are you saying their won't be another Ice age brought on by it or something? Hell, the earth could use a few billion people wiped out over the course of the next 2K years.
If the polar Ice caps melt their will be larger oceans with more plankton and algae. This mean more food, less CO2, more evaporation which means more rain and more plant life. Its all good. So whenever life gets you down Mr. Bertster, just remember this.....
Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at 900 miles an hour
That's orbiting at 19 miles a second, so it's reckoned
A sun that is the source of all our power
The sun and you and me, and all the stars that we can see
Are moving at a million miles a day
In an outer spiral arm, at 40,000 miles an hour
Of the galaxy we call the Milky Way
Our galaxy itself contains 100 billion stars
It's 100,000 light-years side-to-side
It bulges in the middle, 16,000 light-years thick
But out by us it's just 3000 light-years wide
We're 30,000 light-years from galactic central point
We go round every 200 million years
And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions
In this amazing and expanding universe
The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whiz
As fast as it can go, at the speed of light you know
Twelve million miles a minute and that's the fastest speed there is
So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure
How amazingly unlikely is your birth
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space
Because there's bugger all down here on Earth
The fact is that due to the increased rate of change there will be numerous disasters in the not too distant future which will cause a lot of death, pain and suffering for a very large proportion of the worlds population.
For example, if you consider that something like 40% of the worlds population get their drinking water from rivers fed by melting snow in the Himalayas, and that should the glaciers there melt (which they are doing), then many of those rivers will run dry and millions of people will die of thirst.
Pretending bad stuff isn't going to happen is not the attitude that will solve any of these problems. If there is a huge problem that will most likely kill millions of people, the best idea is to try and do something about it, no matter the cost.
Global warming will be detrimental to plankton, and thusly, all life on Earth.Major_Spittle wrote:
What is the big problem with increasing it, so what it happens 20k years sooner. In the grand sceme of things that doesn't seem to bad.Bertster7 wrote:
That's exactly what the scientists at this conference are saying. There is a natural warming (and cooling) cycle, but we have inreased the rate of change to a dangerous extent.heggs wrote:
my thought is this: the earth does have fluctuations in temperature, there is no arguing that. but i feel that there is a good chance that humans have aided the natural cycle in increasing the global temperature. Restated: I think that humans have accelerated global warming, meaning that it is occuring regardless of us, but we are definetly helping it along.
Are you saying their won't be another Ice age brought on by it or something? Hell, the earth could use a few billion people wiped out over the course of the next 2K years.
If the polar Ice caps melt their will be larger oceans with more plankton and algae. This mean more food, less CO2, more evaporation which means more rain and more plant life. Its all good. So whenever life gets you down Mr. Bertster, just remember this.....
Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at 900 miles an hour
That's orbiting at 19 miles a second, so it's reckoned
A sun that is the source of all our power
The sun and you and me, and all the stars that we can see
Are moving at a million miles a day
In an outer spiral arm, at 40,000 miles an hour
Of the galaxy we call the Milky Way
Our galaxy itself contains 100 billion stars
It's 100,000 light-years side-to-side
It bulges in the middle, 16,000 light-years thick
But out by us it's just 3000 light-years wide
We're 30,000 light-years from galactic central point
We go round every 200 million years
And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions
In this amazing and expanding universe
The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whiz
As fast as it can go, at the speed of light you know
Twelve million miles a minute and that's the fastest speed there is
So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure
How amazingly unlikely is your birth
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space
Because there's bugger all down here on Earth
Wtf..I'm reading that now. You psycho psychic.haffeysucks wrote:
Could be no shit or bullshit based on your opinion. Anyone read State of Fear?
It's nice to read some sensible views on this topic, the world seems full of people that either want to say it's all humans fault, or that it is just part of the natural cycle. Yet few people seem to be in the middle and understand both sides, which is where the truth really lies.Kmarion wrote:
Exactly, people feel the need to through out huge numbers and our position in the universe in order to try in convince us that life is not fragile. That's pretty arrogant if you ask me, especially considering we have yet to find sustainable life anywhere else in the universe. We have made our mark on the cycle and our Grand children will deal with the consequences. The "it's not going to affect me attitude is highly irresponsible." Some of us our bound by our moral conscience.Bertster7 wrote:
That's exactly what the scientists at this conference are saying. There is a natural warming (and cooling) cycle, but we have increased the rate of change to a dangerous extent.heggs wrote:
my thought is this: the earth does have fluctuations in temperature, there is no arguing that. but i feel that there is a good chance that humans have aided the natural cycle in increasing the global temperature. Restated: I think that humans have accelerated global warming, meaning that it is occuring regardless of us, but we are definetly helping it along.
Sadly I don't think that we will ever change the fact that the human race's good points are also it's bad points. I think there is no escaping the fact that we are our own worst enemy and will destroy ourselves, Be it sooner or later.
What is the context Steven Hawking was using. Is he talking about the "Big Bang" or something? Of course, many things can not be proven, but to suggest that nothing can be proven is a little ridiculous.Bertster7 wrote:
You don't seem to understand how the scientific concepts of proof work. In science there is really no such thing as "proof" of anything. No respectable scientist will ever claim amongst the scientific community to have proved something.weamo8 wrote:
There are thousands of other people having the same argument we are having right now, and no one will concede. Simply because no one can prove anything. When thousands of scientists get together and compile all the vast stores of information they have gathered and the best conclusion they can come up with is "very likely," I am willing to bet there is no real proof.
Even if we can stop it, we never will. You better get ready to move, or learn to tread water.
BTW, there was a time when the oceans were rising at a rate almost five times as fast as it is now. Hopefully we get to that point. We will have beach front property in Nevada.By those qualifications the theory of Global Warming is a very good theory.Stephen Hawking wrote:
[Y]ou have to be clear about what a scientific theory is. I shall take the simple open minded view that a theory is a model of the universe, or a restricted part of it, and a set of rules that relate quantities in the model to observations that we make. A theory is a good theory if it satisfies two requirements: it must accurately describe a large class of observations on the basis of a model that contains only a few abritrary elements, and it must make definate predictions about the results of future observations. Any physical theory is always provisional, in the sense that it is just a hypothesis: you can never prove it. No matter how many times the results of experiments agree with some theory, you can never be sure that the next time the result will not contradict the theory.
I have never read any credible scientist that even questions the "fact" tha the earth is getting hotter. Do you think Steven Hawking would question them on that? Just because two things both based on science, that doesnt create a correlation.
Why didnt the scientists who put this together release it as "It is very likely Global warming is happening, and it is very likely it is man-made."
There are no facts in science huh? Everything is just theory?
That's right. All theory with levels of probability.weamo8 wrote:
There are no facts in science huh? Everything is just theory?
You can't prove anything, that's the whole point. You can disprove something and you can increase the probability that you are right (to the extent that you are certain of it and in practice would call it fact), but you can't prove any theory.
He's describing what a scientific theory is. The quote comes from near the beginning of a Brief History of Time.weamo8 wrote:
What is the context Steven Hawking was using. Is he talking about the "Big Bang" or something?
Last edited by Bertster7 (2007-02-02 11:50:27)
Please, give us an example of a fact. Doesn't have to be a scientific one, per se.weamo8 wrote:
There are no facts in science huh? Everything is just theory?
That book is a heavy fucking read. I think a Short History of Nearly Everything by Bill Bryson is probably better book as it doesnt really require as much knowledge of the subject, its a good "starter" book.Bertster7 wrote:
He's describing what a scientific theory is. The quote comes from near the beginning of a Brief History of Time.
No it's not. It's really easy and simple, yet gives a proper picture of the way things work. You want a heavy read, then get "The Road to Reality" by Roger Penrose. Great stuff.Vilham wrote:
That book is a heavy fucking read. I think a Short History of Nearly Everything by Bill Bryson is probably better book as it doesnt really require as much knowledge of the subject, its a good "starter" book.Bertster7 wrote:
He's describing what a scientific theory is. The quote comes from near the beginning of a Brief History of Time.
Does that mean that if enough people agree with you, that your view is bullshit?Fen321 wrote:
huh.....isn't a portion of the smoke Co2? If so why isn't it causing the same drastic effects that our produced Co2 has on the climate?
CONSENSUS IS IRRELAVANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't you see the problem with consensus...it leads to bullshit being believed as true fact....not a good idea.
Mars is getting warmer as well! Mars' polar ice caps are shrinking. We are causing "cosmic" warming as well. Hurry up !there is still time, kill yourselves !Kmarion wrote:
2/1/7
http://www.ipcc.ch/SPM2feb07.pdf
http://i9.tinypic.com/2qno03q.jpg
PARIS - A long-awaited report says global warming is "very likely" man-made, the most powerful language ever used on the issue by the world's leading climate scientists, delegates who have seen the report said Thursday.
In the end, there was little debate on the strength of the wording about human activity most likely to blame.
"That is a big move. I hope it is a powerful statement," said Jan Pretel, head of the department of climate change at the Czech Hydrometeorological Institute.
http://i5.tinypic.com/2mglilk.jpg
While critics call the panel overly alarmist, it is by nature relatively cautious because it relies on hundreds of scientists, including skeptics and industry researchers.
"This is just not something you can stop. We're just going to have to live with it," co-author Kevin Trenberth, director of climate analysis for the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colo., told The Associated Press in an interview. "We're creating a different planet. If you were to come up back in 100 years time, we'll have a different climate."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070201/ap_ … _change_15
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/02 … cnn_latest
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/ … 0509.shtml
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/20 … 838567.htm
Last edited by CC-Marley (2007-02-02 14:32:09)
Judging by that response, I'm assuming you're the kid in your sig....CC-Marley wrote:
Mars is getting warmer as well! Mars' polar ice caps are shrinking. We are causing "cosmic" warming as well. Hurry up !there is still time, kill yourselves !Kmarion wrote:
2/1/7
http://www.ipcc.ch/SPM2feb07.pdf
http://i9.tinypic.com/2qno03q.jpg
PARIS - A long-awaited report says global warming is "very likely" man-made, the most powerful language ever used on the issue by the world's leading climate scientists, delegates who have seen the report said Thursday.
In the end, there was little debate on the strength of the wording about human activity most likely to blame.
"That is a big move. I hope it is a powerful statement," said Jan Pretel, head of the department of climate change at the Czech Hydrometeorological Institute.
http://i5.tinypic.com/2mglilk.jpg
While critics call the panel overly alarmist, it is by nature relatively cautious because it relies on hundreds of scientists, including skeptics and industry researchers.
"This is just not something you can stop. We're just going to have to live with it," co-author Kevin Trenberth, director of climate analysis for the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colo., told The Associated Press in an interview. "We're creating a different planet. If you were to come up back in 100 years time, we'll have a different climate."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070201/ap_ … _change_15
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/02 … cnn_latest
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/02/ … 0509.shtml
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/20 … 838567.htm
lolCC-Marley wrote:
Mars is getting warmer as well! Mars' polar ice caps are shrinking. We are causing "cosmic" warming as well. Hurry up !there is still time, kill yourselves !