The bombing of Tokyo was a neccessary action to bring Japan to its knees and surrender in a war THEY started. History HAS judged, and it does not reflect you your point of view.topal63 wrote:
Not only that... prior to the dropping of the 2-bombs ... in the documentary "The Fog of War" - Robert McNamara, while serving under General LeMay - stated that the fire bombing of Tokyo, and the killing of the civilian populations, would be considered a ". . . crime against humanity." And they would be put on trial for those actions/crimes - if the US was not the victor in World War II.sergeriver wrote:
I never called America a terrorist state. Please take your time to read other people's posts before saying such BS. Show me when I called America a terrorist state. I expect an apologize for your BS comment.lowing wrote:
Enlighten me on what I am confused about. Are you saying I MUST be confused because I think all of your posts about America being a terrorist state is bullshit? Your opinion means dick when it does not agree with the FACTS of history. Japan's bombing was not a terrorist attack. For you all to suggest it is complete bullshit and a desporate attempt to try and hold your bullshit opinions together with ANYTHING you can find.
This is what I said, read carefully.sergeriver wrote:
So Truman is a an angel because he struggled with the decision? He did it despite the moral dilemma he might have had. Is he considered a terrorist? No. Did he commit a crime against humanity? Yes.
Clip (from the Fog of War):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OH2eQDQNvI8
This goes back to the "ignorant and weak" point (I made above; about a child-like belief-system) and proportionality for actions done (numbers point; I made above). Rawls2, in ignorance, even stated that error openly as a belief he subscribed his name to. But those certain they are right are free to ignore this information and logic - as well.
Poll
Islamophobia: The New Anti-Semitism?
| Yes | 53% | 53% - 67 | ||||
| No | 46% | 46% - 59 | ||||
| Total: 126 | ||||||
Lowing are you that naive? The winning side writes history, it doesn't make it right.
So history books in Japan would say they did not start the war with a sneak attack?Vilham wrote:
Lowing are you that naive? The winning side writes history, it doesn't make it right.
Seeing as it wasn't even a sneak attack, as it was know by the US as it is recorded in history books currently, probably not.
We knew? Oh. Just because we did not listen to the warnings (insert 9/11), doesn't mean we wanted it to happen.Vilham wrote:
Seeing as it wasn't even a sneak attack, as it was know by the US as it is recorded in history books currently, probably not.
That doesn't change the fact that it wasn't a sneak attack. Seriously you really need to use some common sense.
Please define sneak attack for me then.Vilham wrote:
That doesn't change the fact that it wasn't a sneak attack. Seriously you really need to use some common sense.
Show me ANY text book that has America's action in WW2 as terrorism or crimes against humanity then.Vilham wrote:
Lowing are you that naive? The winning side writes history, it doesn't make it right.
I am probably older than you are pal, you probably still are in school and has not even paid a fucking mortgage yet. So please stop trying to talk down to me as if you have a clue about REAL life.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_People's … ted_Stateslowing wrote:
Show me ANY text book that has America's action in WW2 as terrorism or crimes against humanity then.Vilham wrote:
Lowing are you that naive? The winning side writes history, it doesn't make it right.
I am probably older than you are pal, you probably still are in school and has not even paid a fucking mortgage yet. So please stop trying to talk down to me as if you have a clue about REAL life.
Last edited by UON (2007-01-30 16:10:26)
wiki is not a text book
It's a wiki article ABOUT a damn text bookusmarine2007 wrote:
wiki is not a text book
edit: insert a ' in peoples or the link won't work...
or copy and paste this
Code:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_People's_History_of_the_United_States
Last edited by UON (2007-01-30 16:11:29)
What the hell is this??!!....UON wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_People's … ted_Stateslowing wrote:
Show me ANY text book that has America's action in WW2 as terrorism or crimes against humanity then.Vilham wrote:
Lowing are you that naive? The winning side writes history, it doesn't make it right.
I am probably older than you are pal, you probably still are in school and has not even paid a fucking mortgage yet. So please stop trying to talk down to me as if you have a clue about REAL life.
If you mean why doesn't the link work, see the post above (your post).... bf2s won't let you use an apostrophe in a link.lowing wrote:
What the hell is this??!!....UON wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_People's … ted_Stateslowing wrote:
Show me ANY text book that has America's action in WW2 as terrorism or crimes against humanity then.
I am probably older than you are pal, you probably still are in school and has not even paid a fucking mortgage yet. So please stop trying to talk down to me as if you have a clue about REAL life.
edit: if you really mean what the hell is this, then read the article once you figure out how to get there...
Last edited by UON (2007-01-30 16:26:42)
No he says if JHapan won the war, they would persue it as a crime against humanity. However, Japan would never admit Nanking as any such crime would they? Also it was a war Jaoan started. There is a lot to be said for that whether you like it or not. There is also a ton to be said for the loss of life that would have occured on both sides given the tenasity of the Japanese. I won't let your slanted take on the BIG picture of that era to go unchallenged.topal63 wrote:
OK...lowing wrote:
Show me ANY text book that has America's action in WW2 as terrorism or crimes against humanity then.Vilham wrote:
Lowing are you that naive? The winning side writes history, it doesn't make it right.
I am probably older than you are pal, you probably still are in school and has not even paid a fucking mortgage yet. So please stop trying to talk down to me as if you have a clue about REAL life.He does not call it terrorism - that is just a word - but rather than being from a non-specific general history text-book, how about from the MOUTH of one who was there in WWII, he contemplates his (McNamara) & General LeMay's planning & actions (the fire bombing of civilian populations) - to be a crime against humanity.topal63 wrote:
Not only that... prior to the dropping of the 2-bombs ... in the documentary "The Fog of War" - Robert McNamara, while serving under General LeMay - stated that the fire bombing of Tokyo, and the killing of the civilian populations, would be considered a ". . . crime against humanity." And they would be put on trial for those actions/crimes - if the US was not the victor in World War II.sergeriver wrote:
I never called America a terrorist state. Please take your time to read other people's posts before saying such BS. Show me when I called America a terrorist state. I expect an apologize for your BS comment.lowing wrote:
Enlighten me on what I am confused about. Are you saying I MUST be confused because I think all of your posts about America being a terrorist state is bullshit? Your opinion means dick when it does not agree with the FACTS of history. Japan's bombing was not a terrorist attack. For you all to suggest it is complete bullshit and a desporate attempt to try and hold your bullshit opinions together with ANYTHING you can find.
This is what I said, read carefully.
Clip (from the Fog of War):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OH2eQDQNvI8
This goes back to the "ignorant and weak" point (I made above; about a child-like belief-system) and proportionality for actions done (numbers point; I made above). Rawls2, in ignorance, even stated that error openly as a belief he subscribed his name to. But those certain they are right are free to ignore this information and logic - as well.
Here it is AGAIN(!) - clip (from the Fog of War):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OH2eQDQNvI8
How much is your "facts" worth when you have been shown that Japan DID NOT surrender before the bombings ( direct proof from your statement that they had) and your lack of acknowledgment of it.
From your link about the book. Opinion does not count as fact.UON wrote:
If you mean why doesn't the link work, see the post above (your post).... bf2s won't let you use an apostrophe in a link.lowing wrote:
What the hell is this??!!....
edit: if you really mean what the hell is this, then read the article once you figure out how to get there...
"Criticism
Conservative author Dan Flynn accuses Zinn of "intellectual dishonesty", inaccuracies and omissions, and claims that many of them would have been avoided if Zinn had "relied on his mind rather than his ideology to do his thinking." He points out that the book contains no source citations that would enable a reader to investigate Zinn's account.[2]
Liberal writer Michael Kazin also criticized the work in Dissent Magazine, contending that A People's History of the United States is too focused on class conflict, and wrongly attributes sinister motives to the American political elite.[4] James Loewen has also made similar statements about Zinn's writing."
And what? You said any textbook.lowing wrote:
From your link about the book. Opinion does not count as fact.UON wrote:
If you mean why doesn't the link work, see the post above (your post).... bf2s won't let you use an apostrophe in a link.lowing wrote:
What the hell is this??!!....
edit: if you really mean what the hell is this, then read the article once you figure out how to get there...
"Criticism
Conservative author Dan Flynn accuses Zinn of "intellectual dishonesty", inaccuracies and omissions, and claims that many of them would have been avoided if Zinn had "relied on his mind rather than his ideology to do his thinking." He points out that the book contains no source citations that would enable a reader to investigate Zinn's account.[2]
Liberal writer Michael Kazin also criticized the work in Dissent Magazine, contending that A People's History of the United States is too focused on class conflict, and wrongly attributes sinister motives to the American political elite.[4] James Loewen has also made similar statements about Zinn's writing."
also, on the original "lacking sources" front:
article wrote:
In 2004, Zinn and Anthony Arnove published a collection of more than 200 primary source documents titled Voices of a People's History of the United States, available both as a book and as a CD of dramatic readings. Writer Aaron Sarver notes that although Kazin "savaged" Zinn’s A People’s History of the United States, "one of the few concessions Kazin made was his approval of Zinn punctuating 'his narrative with hundreds of quotes from slaves and Populists, anonymous wage-earners and ... articulate radicals.'"[5]
Sounds like it is worth a read. Although still, not a text book taught out of in any school, just meerly another book for required reading like Animal Farm and the like. I do however applaude any school that makes a book like this with a different view point, as reqired reading.UON wrote:
And what? You said any textbook.lowing wrote:
From your link about the book. Opinion does not count as fact.UON wrote:
If you mean why doesn't the link work, see the post above (your post).... bf2s won't let you use an apostrophe in a link.
edit: if you really mean what the hell is this, then read the article once you figure out how to get there...
"Criticism
Conservative author Dan Flynn accuses Zinn of "intellectual dishonesty", inaccuracies and omissions, and claims that many of them would have been avoided if Zinn had "relied on his mind rather than his ideology to do his thinking." He points out that the book contains no source citations that would enable a reader to investigate Zinn's account.[2]
Liberal writer Michael Kazin also criticized the work in Dissent Magazine, contending that A People's History of the United States is too focused on class conflict, and wrongly attributes sinister motives to the American political elite.[4] James Loewen has also made similar statements about Zinn's writing."
also, on the original "lacking sources" front:article wrote:
In 2004, Zinn and Anthony Arnove published a collection of more than 200 primary source documents titled Voices of a People's History of the United States, available both as a book and as a CD of dramatic readings. Writer Aaron Sarver notes that although Kazin "savaged" Zinn’s A People’s History of the United States, "one of the few concessions Kazin made was his approval of Zinn punctuating 'his narrative with hundreds of quotes from slaves and Populists, anonymous wage-earners and ... articulate radicals.'"[5]
Me, we, it's the same thing, you insulted me and others. Why would I deny such claims if we have you to do it. You want a legit book give me your address and I'll send it for you pal. But let's check what Einstein and Leo Szilard had to say:lowing wrote:
When I said "you" I speak of all of you. Then again I ask, where were YOU when such claims have been made and or suggested?? I didn't read anything from you denying such bullshit. It is a weak and fultile arguement that can not be re-enforced by history.sergeriver wrote:
I never called America a terrorist state. Please take your time to read other people's posts before saying such BS. Show me when I called America a terrorist state. I expect an apologize for your BS comment.lowing wrote:
Enlighten me on what I am confused about. Are you saying I MUST be confused because I think all of your posts about America being a terrorist state is bullshit? Your opinion means dick when it does not agree with the FACTS of history. Japan's bombing was not a terrorist attack. For you all to suggest it is complete bullshit and a desporate attempt to try and hold your bullshit opinions together with ANYTHING you can find.
This is what I said, read carefully.sergeriver wrote:
So Truman is a an angel because he struggled with the decision? He did it despite the moral dilemma he might have had. Is he considered a terrorist? No. Did he commit a crime against humanity? Yes.
You have no apology coming.
Trumand did not commit crimes against humanity. Show ne in ANYONE's legit history book where he was.
"Let me say only this much to the moral issue involved: Suppose Germany had developed two bombs before we had any bombs. And suppose Germany had dropped one bomb, say, on Rochester and the other on Buffalo, and then having run out of bombs she would have lost the war. Can anyone doubt that we would then have defined the dropping of atomic bombs on cities as a war crime, and that we would have sentenced the Germans who were guilty of this crime to death at Nuremberg and hanged them?."
Peter Kuznick, director of the Nuclear Studies Institute at American University in Washington DC wrote of President Truman:
”He knew he was beginning the process of annihilation of the species. It was not just a war crime; it was a crime against humanity."
lol way to personal attack me. Just for your info im at uni. I pay bills. Suck my balls. Im sure there are plenty of books that paint the only nuking ever of a country as a crime against humanity, you naive twat.lowing wrote:
Show me ANY text book that has America's action in WW2 as terrorism or crimes against humanity then.Vilham wrote:
Lowing are you that naive? The winning side writes history, it doesn't make it right.
I am probably older than you are pal, you probably still are in school and has not even paid a fucking mortgage yet. So please stop trying to talk down to me as if you have a clue about REAL life.
Uni in the UK is a total dos, you'll be getting at least £3,000 a year living expenses inflation-capped-loan (possibly more), plus you have loads of free time for part time work and you get council tax exemption. Council tax is a bitch, it's about 25% on top of my rent now I've finished uni. And student accomodation is dead cheap... I know because my flat cost about double (quadruple if you count my then-girlfriend now-wife's share) of what most people on my course was paying.Vilham wrote:
lol way to personal attack me. Just for your info im at uni. I pay bills. Suck my balls. Im sure there are plenty of books that paint the only nuking ever of a country as a crime against humanity, you naive twat.lowing wrote:
Show me ANY text book that has America's action in WW2 as terrorism or crimes against humanity then.Vilham wrote:
Lowing are you that naive? The winning side writes history, it doesn't make it right.
I am probably older than you are pal, you probably still are in school and has not even paid a fucking mortgage yet. So please stop trying to talk down to me as if you have a clue about REAL life.
Mate it costs me 5 grand housing expenses, 3 grand top up fees, aswell as living itself. Around 11 grand a year for my whole degree, while i dont have time to work as im studying. Thats 44 grand when i come out of uni that is charged interest and the normal out of uni pay rate is around 25 grand, gunna take me quite a few years to be paying that off if i have no life and a lot of years if i have a life, which i will.
I have no free time for part time work, other than my time off at the weekend.
I was really surprised to find that people wont give you a job for 2 hours a day /sarcasm.
I have no free time for part time work, other than my time off at the weekend.
I was really surprised to find that people wont give you a job for 2 hours a day /sarcasm.
Last edited by Vilham (2007-01-30 17:34:05)
Yes they will. Plenty of work like that. I had 3 different jobs with similar hours throughout the 3 study years of my degree. Anyway, I worked most Saturdays and several evenings a week until 8.30pm even in the final year.... that adds up to 15 hours+, which should net about £4-6k per year. Plus of course there are only 26 weeks in a uni year.Vilham wrote:
Mate it costs me 5 grand housing expenses, 3 grand top up fees, aswell as living itself. Around 11 grand a year for my whole degree, while i dont have time to work as im studying. Thats 44 grand when i come out of uni that is charged interest and the normal out of uni pay rate is around 25 grand, gunna take me quite a few years to be paying that off if i have no life and a lot of years if i have a life, which i will.
I have no free time for part time work, other than my time off at the weekend.
I was really surprised to find that people wont give you a job for 2 hours a day /sarcasm.
And you don't strictly speaking get charged interest on the loans via the student loan company, you get charged inflation rate. i.e. you pay back what you borrowed. Yeah, it might take decades, but that's because you only pay back a small amount per month, especially on £25k.
Kind of an odd poll considering that there were muslim SS units to murder Jews. Watch the movie Obsession. It details the link between the Nazis and the muslims. The Nazis were wiped out, the muslims are continuing with the same plan since 1940...murder all Jewish people, then the Christians. Why do you think they teach thier children to chant in the streets "First the Saturday people, then the Sunday people" They want to kill the Jews, then come after the Christians. Iran has repeatedly stated that they will wipe out Israel, then the United States. It's a sad state of affairs when the kids on here are so brainwashed by their liberal socialist professors that they side with the murderers and not the victims.
P.S. I skipped ahead to the end of the book...we win.
P.S. I skipped ahead to the end of the book...we win.
No where in Nottingham has jobs for uni students that are 2 hour shifts. I intend to have a life while at uni, once im out im gunna have to work my ass off even more, so im up for having fun now. The students loan is MAX 3 grand a year, the rest has to be done on normal loans with normal interest, thats 8 grand a year of normal loans. By the end of uni thats 32 grand with 4 years interest on 8 grand, 3 years on 8 grand, 2 years on 8 grand, 1 year on 8 grand. And seeing as i cant pay back 44 grand straight off there will be more interest to come.UON wrote:
Yes they will. Plenty of work like that. I had 3 different jobs with similar hours throughout the 3 study years of my degree. Anyway, I worked most Saturdays and several evenings a week until 8.30pm even in the final year.... that adds up to 15 hours+, which should net about £4-6k per year. Plus of course there are only 26 weeks in a uni year.Vilham wrote:
Mate it costs me 5 grand housing expenses, 3 grand top up fees, aswell as living itself. Around 11 grand a year for my whole degree, while i dont have time to work as im studying. Thats 44 grand when i come out of uni that is charged interest and the normal out of uni pay rate is around 25 grand, gunna take me quite a few years to be paying that off if i have no life and a lot of years if i have a life, which i will.
I have no free time for part time work, other than my time off at the weekend.
I was really surprised to find that people wont give you a job for 2 hours a day /sarcasm.
And you don't strictly speaking get charged interest on the loans via the student loan company, you get charged inflation rate. i.e. you pay back what you borrowed. Yeah, it might take decades, but that's because you only pay back a small amount per month, especially on £25k.
I dont know what your course was like but i work. I dont intend to spend my time off in the evenings and at weekends when im not doing coursework or revising for exams working in a job.
lol its sad that your media brainwashes you. Its only in America that there is this crack pot "everyone is out to get us" idea.gun.KingRat wrote:
Kind of an odd poll considering that there were muslim SS units to murder Jews. Watch the movie Obsession. It details the link between the Nazis and the muslims. The Nazis were wiped out, the muslims are continuing with the same plan since 1940...murder all Jewish people, then the Christians. Why do you think they teach thier children to chant in the streets "First the Saturday people, then the Sunday people" They want to kill the Jews, then come after the Christians. Iran has repeatedly stated that they will wipe out Israel, then the United States. It's a sad state of affairs when the kids on here are so brainwashed by their liberal socialist professors that they side with the murderers and not the victims.
P.S. I skipped ahead to the end of the book...we win.