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Poll

Islamophobia: The New Anti-Semitism?

Yes53%53% - 67
No46%46% - 59
Total: 126
2007-01-25 07:42:05
sgt_mango333
Member
+31|6855
Absolutely no comparison.  Radical Jews never perpetrated any mass violence to warrant the treatment they received.  Granted, it is the radical Muslim extremist groups engaging the civilian population, but that is part of the problem - civilian population.  Please don't engage in ancient history, because that was a different world and much of that history is taken from a book most in this forum discount anyway.

As it is, Muslims are looked at now with a filter of suspicion and for good reason.  Muslim extremists, I'm not generalizing and saying all Muslims, have been the bane of globalization and threaten society at every turn in the latter half of the 20th century and the kick off of the 21st.  They interpret/misinterpret, not sure cuz I've never read it, the Koran where all "infidels" (non Muslims) must die.  They live and breathe and act as normal productive citizens until its time to blow themselves up.

I can't think of any thing in the last 100 years even closely resembling this from the Jews.  Yes, Israel was reestablished and land was taken/retrieved (depending on your view) but was sanctioned by the UN.  I know many, including current company, don't have much respect for the UN, but that is beside the point.  My point is that there isn't a lot of comparison considering Muslims weren't viewed in this light until the last couple of decades and anti-semitism has existed for hundreds, maybe thousands, of years.
2007-01-25 07:49:31
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6803|132 and Bush

sgt_mango333 wrote:

Absolutely no comparison.  Radical Jews never perpetrated any mass violence to warrant the treatment they received.  Granted, it is the radical Muslim extremist groups engaging the civilian population, but that is part of the problem - civilian population.  Please don't engage in ancient history, because that was a different world and much of that history is taken from a book most in this forum discount anyway.

As it is, Muslims are looked at now with a filter of suspicion and for good reason.  Muslim extremists, I'm not generalizing and saying all Muslims, have been the bane of globalization and threaten society at every turn in the latter half of the 20th century and the kick off of the 21st.  They interpret/misinterpret, not sure cuz I've never read it, the Koran where all "infidels" (non Muslims) must die.  They live and breathe and act as normal productive citizens until its time to blow themselves up.

I can't think of any thing in the last 100 years even closely resembling this from the Jews.  Yes, Israel was reestablished and land was taken/retrieved (depending on your view) but was sanctioned by the UN.  I know many, including current company, don't have much respect for the UN, but that is beside the point.  My point is that there isn't a lot of comparison considering Muslims weren't viewed in this light until the last couple of decades and anti-semitism has existed for hundreds, maybe thousands, of years.
I agree. If you look at the stats I posted on the previous page you can see still to this day that hate crimes against Jews still outweigh all other religious group by a very large margin. (According to the FBI's database)
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2005/victims.htm

Last edited by Kmarion (2007-01-25 07:51:57)

Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-01-25 07:50:31
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6745|Texas - Bigger than France
Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia...

Can't I just be frustrated with the Middle East?
2007-01-25 07:54:07
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6784|SE London

sgt_mango333 wrote:

Absolutely no comparison.  Radical Jews never perpetrated any mass violence to warrant the treatment they received.  Granted, it is the radical Muslim extremist groups engaging the civilian population, but that is part of the problem - civilian population.  Please don't engage in ancient history, because that was a different world and much of that history is taken from a book most in this forum discount anyway.
We don't need to look back to ancient history to see mass violence by radical Jews.

Irgun (Zionist terror oganisation) attacks throughout the 1930s.

    * April 20, 1936 - 2 Arab workers in a banana plantation killed
    * March, 1937 - 2 Arabs killed on Bat-Yam beach
    * November 14, 1937 - 6 Arabs were killed in several shooting attacks in Jerusalem.
    * April 12, 1938 - 2 Arabs and 2 British policemen were killed by a bomb in a train in Haifa.
    * April 17, 1938 - An Arab was killed by a bomb detonated in a cafe in Haifa
    * May 17, 1938 - An Arab policeman was killed in an attack on a bus in the Jerusalem-Hebron road.
    * May 24, 1938 - 3 Arabs were shot and killed in Haifa.
    * June 23, 1938 - 2 Arabs were killed near Tel-Aviv.
    * June 26, 1938 - 7 Arabs were killed by a bomb in Jaffa.
    * June 27, 1938 - An Arab was killed in the yard of a hospital in Haifa.
    * July 5, 1938 - 7 Arabs were killed in several shooting attacks in Tel-Aviv.
    * On the same day, 3 Arabs were killed by a bomb detonated in a bus in Jerusalem.
    * On the same day, an Arab was killed in another attack in Jerusalem.
    * July 6 1938 - 18 Arabs and 5 Jews were killed by two simultaneous bombs in the Arab Melon market in Haifa.
    * July 8, 1938 - 4 Arabs were killed by a bomb in Jerusalem.
    * July 16, 1938 - 10 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jerusalem.
    * July 25, 1938 - 53 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Haifa.
    * August 26, 1938 - 24 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jaffa.
    * February 27, 1939 - 33 Arabs were killed in multiple attacks, incl. 24 by bomb in Arab market in Suk Quarter of Haifa and 4 by bomb in Arab vegetable market in Jerusalem.
    * May 29, 1939 - 5 Arabs were killed by a mine detonated at the Rex cinema in Jerusalem.
    * On the same day, 5 Arabs were shot and killed during a raid on the village of Biyar 'Adas.
    * June 2, 1939 - 5 Arabs were killed by a bomb at the Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem.
    * June 12, 1939 - A post office in Jerusalem was bombed, killing a British bomb expert trying to defuse the bombs.
    * June 16, 1939 - 6 Arabs were killed in several attacks in Jerusalem.
    * June 19, 1939 - 20 Arabs were killed by explosives mounted on a donkey at a marketplace in Haifa.
    * June 29, 1939 - 13 Arabs were killed in multiple shootings during one-hour period.
    * June 30, 1939 - An Arab was killed at a marketplace in Jerusalem.
    * On the same day, 2 Arabs were shot and killed in Lifta.
    * July 3, 1939 - An Arab was killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Haifa.
    * July 4, 1939 - 2 Arabs were killed in two attacks in Jerusalem.
    * July 20, 1939 - An Arab was killed at a train station in Jaffa.
    * On the same day, 6 Arabs were killed in several attacks in Tel-Aviv.
    * On the same day, 3 Arabs were killed in Rehovot.
    * August 27, 1939 - 2 British officers were killed by a mine in Jerusalem.

and then in the '40s.

    * November 1944 Lehi assassinated British minister Lord Moyne in Cairo.
    * 1944-1945 The killings of several suspected collaborators with the Haganah and the British mandate government during the Hunting Season.
    * July 26, 1946 The bombing of British headquarters at the King David Hotel, killing 91 people — 28 British, 41 Arab, 17 Jewish, and 5 others. Around 45 people were injured.
    * 1946 British military airfields and railways were attacked several times.
    * 1946 The bombing by the Irgun of the British Embassy in Rome.
    * 1947 The reprisal killing of two British sergeants who had been taken prisoner in response to British execution of two Irgun members in Akko prison.
    * September 1948, Lehi assassination of the UN mediator Count Bernadotte, whom Lehi accused of a pro-Arab stance during the cease-fire negotiations.
2007-01-25 07:57:02
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6784|SE London

Kmarion wrote:

sgt_mango333 wrote:

Absolutely no comparison.  Radical Jews never perpetrated any mass violence to warrant the treatment they received.  Granted, it is the radical Muslim extremist groups engaging the civilian population, but that is part of the problem - civilian population.  Please don't engage in ancient history, because that was a different world and much of that history is taken from a book most in this forum discount anyway.

As it is, Muslims are looked at now with a filter of suspicion and for good reason.  Muslim extremists, I'm not generalizing and saying all Muslims, have been the bane of globalization and threaten society at every turn in the latter half of the 20th century and the kick off of the 21st.  They interpret/misinterpret, not sure cuz I've never read it, the Koran where all "infidels" (non Muslims) must die.  They live and breathe and act as normal productive citizens until its time to blow themselves up.

I can't think of any thing in the last 100 years even closely resembling this from the Jews.  Yes, Israel was reestablished and land was taken/retrieved (depending on your view) but was sanctioned by the UN.  I know many, including current company, don't have much respect for the UN, but that is beside the point.  My point is that there isn't a lot of comparison considering Muslims weren't viewed in this light until the last couple of decades and anti-semitism has existed for hundreds, maybe thousands, of years.
I agree. If you look at the stats I posted on the previous page you can see still to this day that hate crimes against Jews still outweigh all other religious group by a very large margin. (According to the FBI's database)
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2005/victims.htm
It's not the hate crimes aspect that worries me. It's persecution of a particular religious or ethnic group on a state level. I bet there are figures showing that more Muslims have had their civil liberties infringed than Jews.
2007-01-25 07:58:29
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6758

sgt_mango333 wrote:

As it is, Muslims are looked at now with a filter of suspicion and for good reason.  Muslim extremists, I'm not generalizing and saying all Muslims, have been the bane of globalization and threaten society at every turn in the latter half of the 20th century and the kick off of the 21st.  They interpret/misinterpret, not sure cuz I've never read it, the Koran where all "infidels" (non Muslims) must die.  They live and breathe and act as normal productive citizens until its time to blow themselves up.
This isn't really about comparing Jews and Muslims, it's about comparing the attitudes expressed towards a particular group of people. The first line in the paragraph above exactly proves the point that Islamophobia exists. Filter of suspicion for good reason? Because 1 in 100,000 muslims might be on a suicide mission you are going to dismiss them all or adjust your attitude towards them. I'd be mighty dismayed if everyone assumed I was an IRA man on a mission to blow the shit out of a British shopping centre just because of my accent. This demonisation of muslims is in its infancy, has established itself in the psyche of the lower classes of society (those who read the tabloids - Nietzsche's 'mindless masses'), has even permeated some levels of the intelligentsia and has the capacity to grow and spiral out of control.

'Threaten society at every turn': How many jihadi attacks did you witness in your neighbourhood yesterday? How many were there yesterday? What about last week? Last month? Last year? What about in the entire country in which you live last year? Your exaggerated sense of danger betrays the fact that the media have sucked you in hook, line and sinker. Islamic extremism is a problem but a) not nearly as bad as it is made out to be and b) not a good reason to condemn an entire body of people.

PS They're the 'bane of globalisation'. How patronising! I detest globalisation myself and I'm a white ex-Catholic. All globalisation is doing is consolidating the inherent injustices of the economic hierarchy across the globe...
2007-01-25 07:58:33
sgt_mango333
Member
+31|6855

Pug wrote:

Anti-Semitism, Islamophobia...

Can't I just be frustrated with the Middle East?
Heh, not in this day and age.  If you're against something someone else is for you are pegged with a tag/label.  For instance, I'm a homophobic, racist, sexist, Islamaphobe, sitting on a high horse because I was born American.  And for spice I'm a baby killing, environment hating, religous fanatic.

Translated this means I don't agree with gay marriage, don't think America's black communtiy should be compensated for the slave days, don't think a woman president is a good idea or that they should be involved in combat roles, weary of open border policy, American veteran, driving a gasoline car, using paper money, Christian.  If you want to shorten all of that just call me a Conservative American.

Feel free to post your own labels just for fun.
2007-01-25 07:59:57
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6960|Argentina
All the terrorism acts commited by radical Jews or Zionists are not a Holocaust's justification, as all the terrorism acts commited by radical Muslims are not a justification of hate towards all Muslims.  Most Jews or Muslims aren't extremists.
2007-01-25 08:03:01
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6803|132 and Bush

Bertster7 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

sgt_mango333 wrote:

Absolutely no comparison.  Radical Jews never perpetrated any mass violence to warrant the treatment they received.  Granted, it is the radical Muslim extremist groups engaging the civilian population, but that is part of the problem - civilian population.  Please don't engage in ancient history, because that was a different world and much of that history is taken from a book most in this forum discount anyway.

As it is, Muslims are looked at now with a filter of suspicion and for good reason.  Muslim extremists, I'm not generalizing and saying all Muslims, have been the bane of globalization and threaten society at every turn in the latter half of the 20th century and the kick off of the 21st.  They interpret/misinterpret, not sure cuz I've never read it, the Koran where all "infidels" (non Muslims) must die.  They live and breathe and act as normal productive citizens until its time to blow themselves up.

I can't think of any thing in the last 100 years even closely resembling this from the Jews.  Yes, Israel was reestablished and land was taken/retrieved (depending on your view) but was sanctioned by the UN.  I know many, including current company, don't have much respect for the UN, but that is beside the point.  My point is that there isn't a lot of comparison considering Muslims weren't viewed in this light until the last couple of decades and anti-semitism has existed for hundreds, maybe thousands, of years.
I agree. If you look at the stats I posted on the previous page you can see still to this day that hate crimes against Jews still outweigh all other religious group by a very large margin. (According to the FBI's database)
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2005/victims.htm
It's not the hate crimes aspect that worries me. It's persecution of a particular religious or ethnic group on a state level. I bet there are figures showing that more Muslims have had their civil liberties infringed than Jews.
Really, hate crimes dont worry you? I wonder if you would have the same opinion if these crimes were taking place against Muslims.

I wonder if all those Zionist attacks you just posted were on a "state level".

Last edited by Kmarion (2007-01-25 08:13:24)

Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-01-25 08:10:13
sgt_mango333
Member
+31|6855

CameronPoe wrote:

sgt_mango333 wrote:

As it is, Muslims are looked at now with a filter of suspicion and for good reason.  Muslim extremists, I'm not generalizing and saying all Muslims, have been the bane of globalization and threaten society at every turn in the latter half of the 20th century and the kick off of the 21st.  They interpret/misinterpret, not sure cuz I've never read it, the Koran where all "infidels" (non Muslims) must die.  They live and breathe and act as normal productive citizens until its time to blow themselves up.
Because 1 in 100,000 muslims might be on a suicide mission you are going to dismiss them all or adjust your attitude towards them.
Considering it only took 7 to take out a few thousand, that's too many.  Look, I'm not advocating treating Muslims unfairly.  But not being suspicious of someone who matches the description of a terrorist or criminal is insane.  That doesn't mean you have to discriminate and that doesn't mean you have to peg them as a terrorist or criminal.  But by all means, I would be upset if I matched the description of a killer and I wasn't questioned or suspect.

Now rounding up all the Muslims or burning mosques is stupid and unfair treatment, agreed.  But pulling a person of middle-eastern descent and doing a once over before he/she got on a plane is not out of the question.  This is not Islamophobia, it's caution. 

As to your other comments about where and when attacks have occured and my being "hooked by the media", you just keep believing that they aren't that big a threat.  As for me I will be paranoid and vigilant and keep me and mine as safe as possible.  There are Muslims living behind me.  I don't have spy cameras pointed at them, nor do I treat them different than any other neighbor - my kids play with their kids.  But you're damn skippy I keep more of an eye out on that neighbor than most others.
2007-01-25 08:14:10
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6784|SE London

Kmarion wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:


I agree. If you look at the stats I posted on the previous page you can see still to this day that hate crimes against Jews still outweigh all other religious group by a very large margin. (According to the FBI's database)
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2005/victims.htm
It's not the hate crimes aspect that worries me. It's persecution of a particular religious or ethnic group on a state level. I bet there are figures showing that more Muslims have had their civil liberties infringed than Jews.
Really, hate crimes dont worry you? I wonder if you would have the same opinion if these crimes were taking place against Muslims.

I wonder if all those Zionist attacks you just posted that were on a "state level".
Quite right, hate crimes worry me far less than organised government persecution of a particular ethnic or religious group, like I said. Hate crimes are commited by unpleasant racist pricks, when you start getting these things occuring through various levels of authority is when there is real cause for concern. Government sanctioned persecution is very different from hate crimes commited by a few racist individuals, who will always be villefied by the masses.

The Zionist attacks I posted were mostly state sponsored (well not exactly state sponsored because when they occured there was no Zionist state, Israel did not exist). The leaders of Irgun and Lehi and many members of these organisations later became members of the Knesset and some held very central roles in Israeli government, Begin is one example.
2007-01-25 08:14:39
sgt_mango333
Member
+31|6855

sergeriver wrote:

All the terrorism acts commited by radical Jews or Zionists are not a Holocaust's justification, as all the terrorism acts commited by radical Muslims are not a justification of hate towards all Muslims.  Most Jews or Muslims aren't extremists.
Agreed one hundred percent.  Suspicion doesn't equal hate, though.  Still, I don't think hate crimes against Muslims have even come close to the figures against Jews whatever the reason.
2007-01-25 08:16:25
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6960|Argentina

Kmarion wrote:

Does anyone believe Antisemitism is on the rise? ...hmm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5319716.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3595958.stm
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/16012007/325/a … rabbi.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4807786.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3825999.stm
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= … oObWoYQ0Bc
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4573052.stm

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2005/victims.htm

Religious Bias

Of the 1,405 victims of an anti-religion hate crime:

    * 69.5 percent were victims of an anti-Jewish bias.
    * 10.7 percent were victims of an anti-Islamic bias.
    * 7.5 percent were victims of a bias against other unspecified religions (anti-other religion).
    * 4.3 percent were victims of an anti-Catholic bias.
    * 4.1 percent were victims of an anti-Protestant bias.
    * 3.3 percent were victims of a bias against groups of individuals of varying religions (anti-multiple religions, group).
    * 0.4 percent were victims of an anti-Atheist/Agnostic bias.
      (Based on Table 1.)
First, this is only in US.  Besides, of all the 868 crimes against Jews, most of them were robbery or property damage.  In a country of 300M, it doesn't look as a big deal.  The point is this fear and racist feeling against Muslims we find in many countries (I include Argentina of course, here the media has a bias against Muslims), could lead to a bigger thing.  How many Palestinians and Lebaneses died in the last 5 years, because of the attacks conducted by Israel, punishing a whole community for the actions of a few?
2007-01-25 08:18:11
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6960|Argentina

sgt_mango333 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

All the terrorism acts commited by radical Jews or Zionists are not a Holocaust's justification, as all the terrorism acts commited by radical Muslims are not a justification of hate towards all Muslims.  Most Jews or Muslims aren't extremists.
Agreed one hundred percent.  Suspicion doesn't equal hate, though.  Still, I don't think hate crimes against Muslims have even come close to the figures against Jews whatever the reason.
Of course not, but wait a bit, Humans are so dumb.
2007-01-25 08:18:55
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6784|SE London

sergeriver wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Does anyone believe Antisemitism is on the rise? ...hmm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5319716.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3595958.stm
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/16012007/325/a … rabbi.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4807786.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3825999.stm
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= … oObWoYQ0Bc
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4573052.stm

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2005/victims.htm

Religious Bias

Of the 1,405 victims of an anti-religion hate crime:

    * 69.5 percent were victims of an anti-Jewish bias.
    * 10.7 percent were victims of an anti-Islamic bias.
    * 7.5 percent were victims of a bias against other unspecified religions (anti-other religion).
    * 4.3 percent were victims of an anti-Catholic bias.
    * 4.1 percent were victims of an anti-Protestant bias.
    * 3.3 percent were victims of a bias against groups of individuals of varying religions (anti-multiple religions, group).
    * 0.4 percent were victims of an anti-Atheist/Agnostic bias.
      (Based on Table 1.)
First, this is only in US.  Besides, of all the 868 crimes against Jews, most of them were robbery or property damage.  In a country of 300M, it doesn't look as a big deal.  The point is this fear and racist feeling against Muslims we find in many countries (I include Argentina of course, here the media has a bias against Muslims), could lead to a bigger thing.  How many Palestinians and Lebaneses died in the last 5 years, because of the attacks conducted by Israel, punishing a whole community for the actions of a few?
Have you read the links?
2007-01-25 08:21:15
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6960|Argentina

Bertster7 wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Does anyone believe Antisemitism is on the rise? ...hmm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5319716.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3595958.stm
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/16012007/325/a … rabbi.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4807786.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3825999.stm
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= … oObWoYQ0Bc
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4573052.stm

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2005/victims.htm

Religious Bias

Of the 1,405 victims of an anti-religion hate crime:

    * 69.5 percent were victims of an anti-Jewish bias.
    * 10.7 percent were victims of an anti-Islamic bias.
    * 7.5 percent were victims of a bias against other unspecified religions (anti-other religion).
    * 4.3 percent were victims of an anti-Catholic bias.
    * 4.1 percent were victims of an anti-Protestant bias.
    * 3.3 percent were victims of a bias against groups of individuals of varying religions (anti-multiple religions, group).
    * 0.4 percent were victims of an anti-Atheist/Agnostic bias.
      (Based on Table 1.)
First, this is only in US.  Besides, of all the 868 crimes against Jews, most of them were robbery or property damage.  In a country of 300M, it doesn't look as a big deal.  The point is this fear and racist feeling against Muslims we find in many countries (I include Argentina of course, here the media has a bias against Muslims), could lead to a bigger thing.  How many Palestinians and Lebaneses died in the last 5 years, because of the attacks conducted by Israel, punishing a whole community for the actions of a few?
Have you read the links?
Yes, but I was talking about the last one http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2005/victims.htm.  All the numbers in yellow in Kmarion's post belong to this report.  I know there's anti-Semitism all over the world.  I've been called a lot of things for having a Jewish last name.
It's my fault I didn't address that FBI link in my post.

Last edited by sergeriver (2007-01-25 08:31:33)

2007-01-25 08:23:28
sgt_mango333
Member
+31|6855

Bertster7 wrote:

sgt_mango333 wrote:

Absolutely no comparison.  Radical Jews never perpetrated any mass violence to warrant the treatment they received.  Granted, it is the radical Muslim extremist groups engaging the civilian population, but that is part of the problem - civilian population.  Please don't engage in ancient history, because that was a different world and much of that history is taken from a book most in this forum discount anyway.
We don't need to look back to ancient history to see mass violence by radical Jews.

Irgun (Zionist terror oganisation) attacks throughout the 1930s.

    * April 20, 1936 - 2 Arab workers in a banana plantation killed
    * March, 1937 - 2 Arabs killed on Bat-Yam beach
    * November 14, 1937 - 6 Arabs were killed in several shooting attacks in Jerusalem.
    * April 12, 1938 - 2 Arabs and 2 British policemen were killed by a bomb in a train in Haifa.
    * April 17, 1938 - An Arab was killed by a bomb detonated in a cafe in Haifa
    * May 17, 1938 - An Arab policeman was killed in an attack on a bus in the Jerusalem-Hebron road.
    * May 24, 1938 - 3 Arabs were shot and killed in Haifa.
    * June 23, 1938 - 2 Arabs were killed near Tel-Aviv.
    * June 26, 1938 - 7 Arabs were killed by a bomb in Jaffa.
    * June 27, 1938 - An Arab was killed in the yard of a hospital in Haifa.
    * July 5, 1938 - 7 Arabs were killed in several shooting attacks in Tel-Aviv.
    * On the same day, 3 Arabs were killed by a bomb detonated in a bus in Jerusalem.
    * On the same day, an Arab was killed in another attack in Jerusalem.
    * July 6 1938 - 18 Arabs and 5 Jews were killed by two simultaneous bombs in the Arab Melon market in Haifa.
    * July 8, 1938 - 4 Arabs were killed by a bomb in Jerusalem.
    * July 16, 1938 - 10 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jerusalem.
    * July 25, 1938 - 53 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Haifa.
    * August 26, 1938 - 24 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jaffa.
    * February 27, 1939 - 33 Arabs were killed in multiple attacks, incl. 24 by bomb in Arab market in Suk Quarter of Haifa and 4 by bomb in Arab vegetable market in Jerusalem.
    * May 29, 1939 - 5 Arabs were killed by a mine detonated at the Rex cinema in Jerusalem.
    * On the same day, 5 Arabs were shot and killed during a raid on the village of Biyar 'Adas.
    * June 2, 1939 - 5 Arabs were killed by a bomb at the Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem.
    * June 12, 1939 - A post office in Jerusalem was bombed, killing a British bomb expert trying to defuse the bombs.
    * June 16, 1939 - 6 Arabs were killed in several attacks in Jerusalem.
    * June 19, 1939 - 20 Arabs were killed by explosives mounted on a donkey at a marketplace in Haifa.
    * June 29, 1939 - 13 Arabs were killed in multiple shootings during one-hour period.
    * June 30, 1939 - An Arab was killed at a marketplace in Jerusalem.
    * On the same day, 2 Arabs were shot and killed in Lifta.
    * July 3, 1939 - An Arab was killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Haifa.
    * July 4, 1939 - 2 Arabs were killed in two attacks in Jerusalem.
    * July 20, 1939 - An Arab was killed at a train station in Jaffa.
    * On the same day, 6 Arabs were killed in several attacks in Tel-Aviv.
    * On the same day, 3 Arabs were killed in Rehovot.
    * August 27, 1939 - 2 British officers were killed by a mine in Jerusalem.

and then in the '40s.

    * November 1944 Lehi assassinated British minister Lord Moyne in Cairo.
    * 1944-1945 The killings of several suspected collaborators with the Haganah and the British mandate government during the Hunting Season.
    * July 26, 1946 The bombing of British headquarters at the King David Hotel, killing 91 people — 28 British, 41 Arab, 17 Jewish, and 5 others. Around 45 people were injured.
    * 1946 British military airfields and railways were attacked several times.
    * 1946 The bombing by the Irgun of the British Embassy in Rome.
    * 1947 The reprisal killing of two British sergeants who had been taken prisoner in response to British execution of two Irgun members in Akko prison.
    * September 1948, Lehi assassination of the UN mediator Count Bernadotte, whom Lehi accused of a pro-Arab stance during the cease-fire negotiations.
Nice work Berster, didn't realize there was that long of a list.  But even so, many of those were military or strategic targets and the amounts of wounded and dead don't even approach 9/11.  But it's not even the numbers that matter so much, but the targets.  Even the Zionist radicals weren't targeting large civilian communities overseas.  They look to be concentrated, mostly in the area they were trying to occupy.

I'm not saying that is any better, but I think Muslim extremists wouldn't be facing the scrutiny they are now if they kept their bombings in the middle east.  But the targets are civilian targets abroad with no other purpose than to instill fear.
2007-01-25 08:29:00
sgt_mango333
Member
+31|6855

sergeriver wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Does anyone believe Antisemitism is on the rise? ...hmm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5319716.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3595958.stm
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/16012007/325/a … rabbi.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4807786.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3825999.stm
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= … oObWoYQ0Bc
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4573052.stm

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2005/victims.htm

Religious Bias

Of the 1,405 victims of an anti-religion hate crime:

    * 69.5 percent were victims of an anti-Jewish bias.
    * 10.7 percent were victims of an anti-Islamic bias.
    * 7.5 percent were victims of a bias against other unspecified religions (anti-other religion).
    * 4.3 percent were victims of an anti-Catholic bias.
    * 4.1 percent were victims of an anti-Protestant bias.
    * 3.3 percent were victims of a bias against groups of individuals of varying religions (anti-multiple religions, group).
    * 0.4 percent were victims of an anti-Atheist/Agnostic bias.
      (Based on Table 1.)
First, this is only in US.  Besides, of all the 868 crimes against Jews, most of them were robbery or property damage.  In a country of 300M, it doesn't look as a big deal.  The point is this fear and racist feeling against Muslims we find in many countries (I include Argentina of course, here the media has a bias against Muslims), could lead to a bigger thing.  How many Palestinians and Lebaneses died in the last 5 years, because of the attacks conducted by Israel, punishing a whole community for the actions of a few?
You have to punish the country, though.  Who else are you going to punish?  Israel didn't target particular Lebanese.  The government either allowed Hezbollah to hang out or was in control of the government enough that their presence was tolerated.  Israel sent a clear message to Lebanon, get rid of the people you are harboring that are threatening our country.

I agree that it is unfortunate that innocents are punished in the process, but that happens in war and there is no fail safe around it.
2007-01-25 08:29:26
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6803|132 and Bush

Bertster7 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

It's not the hate crimes aspect that worries me. It's persecution of a particular religious or ethnic group on a state level. I bet there are figures showing that more Muslims have had their civil liberties infringed than Jews.
Really, hate crimes dont worry you? I wonder if you would have the same opinion if these crimes were taking place against Muslims.

I wonder if all those Zionist attacks you just posted that were on a "state level".
Quite right, hate crimes worry me far less than organised government persecution of a particular ethnic or religious group, like I said. Hate crimes are commited by unpleasant racist pricks, when you start getting these things occuring through various levels of authority is when there is real cause for concern. Government sanctioned persecution is very different from hate crimes commited by a few racist individuals, who will always be villefied by the masses.

The Zionist attacks I posted were mostly state sponsored (well not exactly state sponsored because when they occured there was no Zionist state, Israel did not exist). The leaders of Irgun and Lehi and many members of these organisations later became members of the Knesset and some held very central roles in Israeli government, Begin is one example.
Kinda like Iran sponsoring Hezzbolah I guess.

I believe in all honesty Europe is engulfed in anti-semitism. I think it is a real problem most Europeans take lightly. It's no surprise though, we have seen it before.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh … lam117.xml
Here ya go serge.. I'll find more if you want me to.

Last edited by Kmarion (2007-01-25 08:32:33)

Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-01-25 08:31:02
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6784|SE London

sgt_mango333 wrote:

Nice work Berster, didn't realize there was that long of a list.  But even so, many of those were military or strategic targets and the amounts of wounded and dead don't even approach 9/11.  But it's not even the numbers that matter so much, but the targets.  Even the Zionist radicals weren't targeting large civilian communities overseas.  They look to be concentrated, mostly in the area they were trying to occupy.

I'm not saying that is any better, but I think Muslim extremists wouldn't be facing the scrutiny they are now if they kept their bombings in the middle east.  But the targets are civilian targets abroad with no other purpose than to instill fear.
Very few of the attacks were military or strategic targets, certainly not in any definition I would accept.

Cafes, marketplaces, post offices etc. Not exactly military targets - though some of the later attacks were, certainly. The numbers are certainly not equivalent to 9/11, but you have to remember 9/11 is the worst terror attack ever.

This is the bigest problem I have with Zionists and the state of Israel, that it was founded by terrorists through terrorist means.
2007-01-25 08:37:21
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6784|SE London

Kmarion wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:


Really, hate crimes dont worry you? I wonder if you would have the same opinion if these crimes were taking place against Muslims.

I wonder if all those Zionist attacks you just posted that were on a "state level".
Quite right, hate crimes worry me far less than organised government persecution of a particular ethnic or religious group, like I said. Hate crimes are commited by unpleasant racist pricks, when you start getting these things occuring through various levels of authority is when there is real cause for concern. Government sanctioned persecution is very different from hate crimes commited by a few racist individuals, who will always be villefied by the masses.

The Zionist attacks I posted were mostly state sponsored (well not exactly state sponsored because when they occured there was no Zionist state, Israel did not exist). The leaders of Irgun and Lehi and many members of these organisations later became members of the Knesset and some held very central roles in Israeli government, Begin is one example.
Kinda like Iran sponsoring Hezzbolah I guess.

I believe in all honesty Europe is engulfed in anti-semitism. I think it is a real problem most Europeans take lightly. It's no surprise though, we have seen it before.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh … lam117.xml
Here ya go serge.. I'll find more if you want me to.
I have to say I'm suprised by the figures. I've never seen anything resembling anti-semitism in the UK or Europe, I'm shocked it's such a problem. To me, largely Jewish communities just mean more tasty bagel shops, like you get across east London.
2007-01-25 08:40:41
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6960|Argentina

Kmarion wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Kmarion wrote:


Really, hate crimes dont worry you? I wonder if you would have the same opinion if these crimes were taking place against Muslims.

I wonder if all those Zionist attacks you just posted that were on a "state level".
Quite right, hate crimes worry me far less than organised government persecution of a particular ethnic or religious group, like I said. Hate crimes are commited by unpleasant racist pricks, when you start getting these things occuring through various levels of authority is when there is real cause for concern. Government sanctioned persecution is very different from hate crimes commited by a few racist individuals, who will always be villefied by the masses.

The Zionist attacks I posted were mostly state sponsored (well not exactly state sponsored because when they occured there was no Zionist state, Israel did not exist). The leaders of Irgun and Lehi and many members of these organisations later became members of the Knesset and some held very central roles in Israeli government, Begin is one example.
Kinda like Iran sponsoring Hezzbolah I guess.

I believe in all honesty Europe is engulfed in anti-semitism. I think it is a real problem most Europeans take lightly. It's no surprise though, we have seen it before.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh … lam117.xml
Here ya go serge.. I'll find more if you want me to.
What is your point?  I never said anti-Semitism or hate against Jews was over.  I've been called several things for having a Jewish last name.  Of course, there still is hate against Jews and that should end.  But increasing the hate against Muslims won't help.
2007-01-25 08:42:04
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6803|132 and Bush

sergeriver wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Quite right, hate crimes worry me far less than organised government persecution of a particular ethnic or religious group, like I said. Hate crimes are commited by unpleasant racist pricks, when you start getting these things occuring through various levels of authority is when there is real cause for concern. Government sanctioned persecution is very different from hate crimes commited by a few racist individuals, who will always be villefied by the masses.

The Zionist attacks I posted were mostly state sponsored (well not exactly state sponsored because when they occured there was no Zionist state, Israel did not exist). The leaders of Irgun and Lehi and many members of these organisations later became members of the Knesset and some held very central roles in Israeli government, Begin is one example.
Kinda like Iran sponsoring Hezzbolah I guess.

I believe in all honesty Europe is engulfed in anti-semitism. I think it is a real problem most Europeans take lightly. It's no surprise though, we have seen it before.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh … lam117.xml
Here ya go serge.. I'll find more if you want me to.
What is your point?  I never said anti-Semitism or hate against Jews was over.  I've been called several things for having a Jewish last name.  Of course, there still is hate against Jews and that should end.  But increasing the hate against Muslims won't help.
It was a response to you saying my figures were limited to the US. ( A few post prior)
I am not advocating hate at all and I don't know where you get that idea from.

Last edited by Kmarion (2007-01-25 08:43:45)

Xbone Stormsurgezz
2007-01-25 08:42:52
sgt_mango333
Member
+31|6855

Bertster7 wrote:

sgt_mango333 wrote:

Nice work Berster, didn't realize there was that long of a list.  But even so, many of those were military or strategic targets and the amounts of wounded and dead don't even approach 9/11.  But it's not even the numbers that matter so much, but the targets.  Even the Zionist radicals weren't targeting large civilian communities overseas.  They look to be concentrated, mostly in the area they were trying to occupy.

I'm not saying that is any better, but I think Muslim extremists wouldn't be facing the scrutiny they are now if they kept their bombings in the middle east.  But the targets are civilian targets abroad with no other purpose than to instill fear.
Very few of the attacks were military or strategic targets, certainly not in any definition I would accept.

Cafes, marketplaces, post offices etc. Not exactly military targets - though some of the later attacks were, certainly. The numbers are certainly not equivalent to 9/11, but you have to remember 9/11 is the worst terror attack ever.

This is the bigest problem I have with Zionists and the state of Israel, that it was founded by terrorists through terrorist means.
What I meant by military and strategic targets was that they were aimed at a goal of reestablishing the country.  I agree, the tactics sucked.  But it wasn't terror for fear's sake, at least not that I can tell.
2007-01-25 08:44:48
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6960|Argentina

Kmarion wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Kinda like Iran sponsoring Hezzbolah I guess.

I believe in all honesty Europe is engulfed in anti-semitism. I think it is a real problem most Europeans take lightly. It's no surprise though, we have seen it before.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh … lam117.xml
Here ya go serge.. I'll find more if you want me to.
What is your point?  I never said anti-Semitism or hate against Jews was over.  I've been called several things for having a Jewish last name.  Of course, there still is hate against Jews and that should end.  But increasing the hate against Muslims won't help.
It was a response to you saying my figures were limited to the US. ( A few post prior)
I am not advocating hate at all and I don't know where you get that idea from.
The 1405 hate crimes were US related.  They were from the FBI report.  The other links were from other countries. 
Ufff, we aren't listening to the same radio today.  Lol.  I didn't mean you advocate hate, I just say let's not do to Muslims the same things they did to Jews.

Last edited by sergeriver (2007-01-25 08:48:20)

 

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