KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,991|7060|949

CameronPoe wrote:

Fact of the matter is that a conventional army cannot win against a guerrilla force of unknown size, no matter how big the conventional army is, especially when the indigenous folk are against their presence.
There you go.  Sending Delta Force, Special Forces, Chuck Norris is going to do nothing.  Sending more troops would actually make the US more vulnerable to attacks, domestic and foreign.

CameronPoe wrote:

They need full on civil war to shape the country (or countries as the case may be). Independence does NOT come in a nicely wrapped giftbox - the ultimate direction of the region known as Iraq should be determined by themselves through blood, sweat and tears. There seems to me to be no alternative but to 'allow' them (like it should be our right to patronisingly tell them what they should or shouldn't do) to have their inevitable civil war. The west needs to stay the fuck out of others affairs and concentrate on their own border and internal security. That's the best way of guaranteeing our safety.
There you go again.  The only thing in Iraq in the US national interest is oil.  Nothing we can do can immediately change this region.  There are at least two separate ethnicities and at least as many religious sects fighting for that land.  Let them decide, and worry about our (US) own borders.

Why is it that we can set up checkpoints to monitor Iraqi citizens but we can't even monitor cargo containers that come through our ports?

Good job Department of Homeland Security, the largest government organization started in the last 75 years.  Whatever happened to Republicans wanting less government anyway?
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6873|The Land of Scott Walker

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Whatever happened to Republicans wanting less government anyway?
Yep, some of them are becoming too much like the Democrats in some ways.  At least they're not anti-military and pro-tax hikes yet.
TeamZephyr
Maintaining My Rage Since 1975
+124|6957|Hillside, Melbourne, Australia
By acting all strong and macho with your Chuck Norris "just bring it" attitude, you are playing right into Al-Zawahiri's hands.

Sending more troops over is simply going to mean more Americans for the Iraqis to kill.
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|7113|United States of America
Send in the specialists, let them get all relaxed and cozy until everybody around them starts disappearing in the middle of the night. The units are trained to find single people in cities of millions so I'd like to see the bastage choke on his words.
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7009|SE London

DesertFox423 wrote:

Send in the specialists, let them get all relaxed and cozy until everybody around them starts disappearing in the middle of the night. The units are trained to find single people in cities of millions so I'd like to see the bastage choke on his words.
That's a much better idea.

Withdraw the bulk of the troops and set up a spec. ops/intelligence outpost to deal with insurgency.

Could even work, a bit.
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6795|Columbus, Ohio

Bertster7 wrote:

DesertFox423 wrote:

Send in the specialists, let them get all relaxed and cozy until everybody around them starts disappearing in the middle of the night. The units are trained to find single people in cities of millions so I'd like to see the bastage choke on his words.
That's a much better idea.

Withdraw the bulk of the troops and set up a spec. ops/intelligence outpost to deal with insurgency.

Could even work, a bit.
Maybe.....but lets not forget who and what special forces have been involved in.  Vietnam....didn't go too well.  Supported the Taliban...need I say more of that result.  The problem is, only history will judge whether actions taken were right or wrong.
rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|6988

CameronPoe wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

Ok, m3thod, Bertster, CPoe . . . how would you suggest the war in Iraq be won?
It can't be. What is the fight for in the first place? Keeping Iraq together? It's actually unclear what the goal is. Usually it's just a non-specific catch-all statement like 'to achieve peace'. Seems to me that they don't want to fucking be together under the flag of a country whose arbitrary borders were drawn up by the west in the aftermath of WWI. They need full on civil war to shape the country (or countries as the case may be). Independence does NOT come in a nicely wrapped giftbox - the ultimate direction of the region known as Iraq should be determined by themselves through blood, sweat and tears. There seems to me to be no alternative but to 'allow' them (like it should be our right to patronisingly tell them what they should or shouldn't do) to have their inevitable civil war. The west needs to stay the fuck out of others affairs and concentrate on their own border and internal security. That's the best way of guaranteeing our safety.
That can't happen either. If we leave and let them have a civil war other countries would try to influence the outcome. That would be unacceptable. We have to stay untill Iraq is stable enough to do it on there own. We have to. There is no other choice.
I agree completely with Stingray that we need nothing but "special secret" forces.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,991|7060|949

rawls2 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

Ok, m3thod, Bertster, CPoe . . . how would you suggest the war in Iraq be won?
It can't be. What is the fight for in the first place? Keeping Iraq together? It's actually unclear what the goal is. Usually it's just a non-specific catch-all statement like 'to achieve peace'. Seems to me that they don't want to fucking be together under the flag of a country whose arbitrary borders were drawn up by the west in the aftermath of WWI. They need full on civil war to shape the country (or countries as the case may be). Independence does NOT come in a nicely wrapped giftbox - the ultimate direction of the region known as Iraq should be determined by themselves through blood, sweat and tears. There seems to me to be no alternative but to 'allow' them (like it should be our right to patronisingly tell them what they should or shouldn't do) to have their inevitable civil war. The west needs to stay the fuck out of others affairs and concentrate on their own border and internal security. That's the best way of guaranteeing our safety.
That can't happen either. If we leave and let them have a civil war other countries would try to influence the outcome. That would be unacceptable. We have to stay untill Iraq is stable enough to do it on there own. We have to. There is no other choice.
I agree completely with Stingray that we need nothing but "special secret" forces.
So it is ok for the US to influence the outcome, but not any other country?  What is the rationalization behind that?
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|7113|United States of America

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

So it is ok for the US to influence the outcome, but not any other country?  What is the rationalization behind that?
https://img245.imageshack.us/img245/5039/tryedit4hp.jpg
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7009|SE London

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

rawls2 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:


It can't be. What is the fight for in the first place? Keeping Iraq together? It's actually unclear what the goal is. Usually it's just a non-specific catch-all statement like 'to achieve peace'. Seems to me that they don't want to fucking be together under the flag of a country whose arbitrary borders were drawn up by the west in the aftermath of WWI. They need full on civil war to shape the country (or countries as the case may be). Independence does NOT come in a nicely wrapped giftbox - the ultimate direction of the region known as Iraq should be determined by themselves through blood, sweat and tears. There seems to me to be no alternative but to 'allow' them (like it should be our right to patronisingly tell them what they should or shouldn't do) to have their inevitable civil war. The west needs to stay the fuck out of others affairs and concentrate on their own border and internal security. That's the best way of guaranteeing our safety.
That can't happen either. If we leave and let them have a civil war other countries would try to influence the outcome. That would be unacceptable. We have to stay untill Iraq is stable enough to do it on there own. We have to. There is no other choice.
I agree completely with Stingray that we need nothing but "special secret" forces.
So it is ok for the US to influence the outcome, but not any other country?  What is the rationalization behind that?
Blind nationalism.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,991|7060|949

DesertFox423 wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

So it is ok for the US to influence the outcome, but not any other country?  What is the rationalization behind that?
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/5039/tryedit4hp.jpg
Perfect picture.  And a cartoon no less.  Clearly states the childishness of such a thought.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6957|Global Command

CameronPoe wrote:

LOL. What a cheeky little monkey. He's really riled a few of you guys! Fact of the matter is that a conventional army cannot win against a guerrilla force of unknown size, no matter how big the conventional army is, especially when the indigenous folk are against their presence.
Perhaps thats where artillery and 500 pounders come in to play.
Elamdri
The New Johnnie Cochran
+134|7075|Peoria
Yknow, if it wasn't for ethics, we would have one this war by now.....although, then again, if it wasn't for ethics, we'd probably all be dead by now, sooo....
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6873|The Land of Scott Walker

Bertster7 wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

So it is ok for the US to influence the outcome, but not any other country?  What is the rationalization behind that?
Blind nationalism.
So you'd rather Ahmadinutjob and his merry band influence the region?  Not me.
rawls2
Mr. Bigglesworth
+89|6988

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

rawls2 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

It can't be. What is the fight for in the first place? Keeping Iraq together? It's actually unclear what the goal is. Usually it's just a non-specific catch-all statement like 'to achieve peace'. Seems to me that they don't want to fucking be together under the flag of a country whose arbitrary borders were drawn up by the west in the aftermath of WWI. They need full on civil war to shape the country (or countries as the case may be). Independence does NOT come in a nicely wrapped giftbox - the ultimate direction of the region known as Iraq should be determined by themselves through blood, sweat and tears. There seems to me to be no alternative but to 'allow' them (like it should be our right to patronisingly tell them what they should or shouldn't do) to have their inevitable civil war. The west needs to stay the fuck out of others affairs and concentrate on their own border and internal security. That's the best way of guaranteeing our safety.
That can't happen either. If we leave and let them have a civil war other countries would try to influence the outcome. That would be unacceptable. We have to stay untill Iraq is stable enough to do it on there own. We have to. There is no other choice.
I agree completely with Stingray that we need nothing but "special secret" forces.
So it is ok for the US to influence the outcome, but not any other country?  What is the rationalization behind that?
I will not answer that because to rationalize something you won't agree with is pointless.
Besides my argument would involve religion and we all know how libs feel about religion.

Last edited by rawls2 (2007-01-22 18:52:46)

fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6919|Menlo Park, CA

ATG wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

LOL. What a cheeky little monkey. He's really riled a few of you guys! Fact of the matter is that a conventional army cannot win against a guerrilla force of unknown size, no matter how big the conventional army is, especially when the indigenous folk are against their presence.
Perhaps thats where artillery and 500 pounders come in to play.
What happened to the good ole B52 carpet bombings. . . .

That four eyed faggot deserves a little rolling thunder in my opinion!!

The B52 is a devastating piece of military hardware that flat out wasnt used/at all effectively in Iraq. . .

In Afghanistan they should start re-thundering those hills then that guy would start rethinking his lil' video blurbs!  As I have said before remove the politics and let our troops do what they're trained to do. . .and thats kill people!
Superslim
BF2s Frat Brother
+211|7120|Calgary
Sure, photograph the entire Army, paste it to a nuke and send it over 
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7029|132 and Bush

Stingray24 wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Whatever happened to Republicans wanting less government anyway?
Yep, some of them are becoming too much like the Democrats in some ways.  At least they're not anti-military and pro-tax hikes yet.
Some can see that Al-Zawahiri would like nothing more than to further escelate the situation and drive us further away from our allies. (Like I said before ). I would like to see a broader approach to the entire region as well. Conflicts of modern times can no longer be limited to strictly military force.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6983

ATG wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

LOL. What a cheeky little monkey. He's really riled a few of you guys! Fact of the matter is that a conventional army cannot win against a guerrilla force of unknown size, no matter how big the conventional army is, especially when the indigenous folk are against their presence.
Perhaps thats where artillery and 500 pounders come in to play.
Great idea. Where shall we aim them then? Oh that's right - I have no idea who is an insurgent and who isn't! lol
Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|7075
Why does every thread involving the middle east turn into a flame war between the U.S. want to take over the world and we need to get the terrorists? I think people should be more concerned over why our countries can't solve their issues peacefully.
spray_and_pray
Member
+52|6919|Perth. Western Australia
Oh great idea lets carpet bomb a whole entire city omg you are so 1337 I dont know why the US hasnt done it before I mean who cares if a 2000 kilogram bomb can wipe out 20 square kilometres but who cares they are all fucking terrorist just wipe out iraq and perform genoicide. Sorry to say those who think that carpet bombing innocent civilians is proper should get fucked. Further to the argument more Iraqi innocents have been killed by US forces then US civilians killed in 9/11. Lets go invade America and take out the terrist government. We will then start a far fetched search for a new superweapon capable of destroying the world based on what we got from intelligence. It will start with a cruise missle attack on all of America's major cities followed by a few days of intensive bombing then we will send in the troops.

That is exactly what happened to Iraq. If you weren't so greedy and stuck to afghanistan you wouldn't be in this shit.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7103|Canberra, AUS

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

Why does every thread involving the middle east turn into a flame war between the U.S. want to take over the world and we need to get the terrorists? I think people should be more concerned over why our countries can't solve their issues peacefully.

fadedsteve wrote:

war works!
That a good enough answer for you?
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
BVC
Member
+325|7124
Rid yourselves of dependency on middle-eastern oil, and leave.  End result: The ragheads go back to fighting each other, and the American military body-bag industry takes a dive.  But thats okay because there will be hundreds of billions more dollars in the US's piggy bank which you could then spend on more useful things.
cl4u53w1t2
Salon-Bolschewist
+269|6901|Kakanien

fadedsteve wrote:

Absolutely, change the ROE and give war a chance . . . .that way we might get a few more of these pricks every month as opposed to a couple a year!

Not too mention smoke this four eyed geek back to the stone age!
"give war a chance" lol

yeah, let more uneducated, socially disadvantaged, young americans die for an unjustified, futile war
Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|7075

Spark wrote:

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

Why does every thread involving the middle east turn into a flame war between the U.S. want to take over the world and we need to get the terrorists? I think people should be more concerned over why our countries can't solve their issues peacefully.

fadedsteve wrote:

war works!
That a good enough answer for you?
No, I was trying to go a little deeper than that. Suffice to say, war should always be the last solution.

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