Poll

Why didn't/hasn't USA invaded/attacked Saudi Arabia?

Bush <3 King Fahd12%12% - 7
Bush <3 Saudi Oil33%33% - 19
Only Iraqis/Afghans/Iranians took part in 9/110%0% - 0
The enemy of my enemy is my friend16%16% - 9
They don't really care about democracy5%5% - 3
They don't really care about radical islam3%3% - 2
They are unable to prioritise issues effectively1%1% - 1
Saudi Arabia buys shitloads of US weaponry7%7% - 4
A clerical error at the Pentagon7%7% - 4
Other12%12% - 7
Total: 56
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6981
Saudi Arabia:

- Schools preaching fundamentalist wahabi form of Islam: check
- Involvement in 9/11: checkorama (!!!)
- Associated with Osama Bin Laden: check (birthplace/family home for christ's sake)
- Would like to see the destruction of state terrorists and US ally Israel: check
- Human rights abuses: check (capital & corporal punishment, amputations, women treated like subhumans, shari'a law imposed)
- Undemocratic: checkorama (!!!)
- Sponsors terrorism: check
- Military buildup: check

Is this the famous old 'US hypocrisy and choosing the lesser of two evils because they do what we tell them and sell us loads of oil' I see before me. Why yes...

Last edited by CameronPoe (2007-01-16 17:30:02)

usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6793|Columbus, Ohio
Cause of like....oil and stuff.
Superior Mind
(not macbeth)
+1,755|7118

usmarine2007 wrote:

Cause of like....oil and stuff.
BN
smells like wee wee
+159|7193
Saudi has roughly 3 billion of invesments in US markets
plus
roughly another 3 billion in accounts in the US.

Plus they are good friends with Bandar Bush
UGADawgs
Member
+13|6747|South Carolina, US
Get back to us when ethanol takes over as the fuel of choice.
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7007|SE London

CameronPoe wrote:

Saudi Arabia:

- Schools preaching fundamentalist wahabi form of Islam: check
- Involvement in 9/11: checkorama (!!!)
- Associated with Osama Bin Laden: check (birthplace/family home for christ's sake)
- Would like to see the destruction of state terrorists and US ally Israel: check
- Human rights abuses: check (capital & corporal punishment, amputations, women treated like subhumans, shari'a law imposed)
- Undemocratic: checkorama (!!!)
- Military buildup: check

Is this the famous old 'US hypocrisy and choosing the lesser of two evils because they do what we tell them and sell us loads of oil' I see before me. Why yes...
You forgot terrorist sponsors.


The West love the Saudis, don't ask me why. I wouldn't attack them anyway - their military hardware looks remarkably up to date - and we all know how the US enjoys fighting crap armies, fighting someone with a real military would be hard work and expensive.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2007-01-16 17:33:07)

CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6981

UGADawgs wrote:

Get back to us when ethanol takes over as the fuel of choice.
Gotta love it when an American says it openly like that.
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|7079
Wish there were still checkbox polls...
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6894
1 and 2
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|7079
2,5,6,8
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|7110|United States of America
Isn't this a double standard? The country is criticized for invading Iraq, which was a dictatorship, and the site of more than a few, to put it gently, human rights violations. However now, you can chastise the country for not toppling more autocracies in the world?

This isn't supposed to be any sort of personal attack, just a poorly expressed thought.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6955|Global Command
Other,
we're gonna let the Sunnis and Shia bleed each other for a while. Softening them up for a mop up operation.

At which point, I , as freely elected dictator, will outlaw religion forever.
UGADawgs
Member
+13|6747|South Carolina, US

CameronPoe wrote:

UGADawgs wrote:

Get back to us when ethanol takes over as the fuel of choice.
Gotta love it when an American says it openly like that.
Really, if you think that we invaded Iraq for oil, Saudi Arabia kills your argument. You'd think that if we really wanted oil badly, we'd take it from the biggest source (and we'd still have the pretense of democracy).

The other, less cynical reason why we didn't invade Saudi Arabia is because invading the land of Mecca and Medina would kill support from Muslims all over the world. Can you really imagine US soldiers being able to remain at post at the Kabba without being attacked every 10 seconds?
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6820|The Gem Saloon
its because of those nice "were sorry, keep buying our oil" commercials they ran after 9-11......made me feel much better.....who cares that they support a wahabist form of radical islam.....as long as they say that they care.....
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7007|SE London

DesertFox423 wrote:

Isn't this a double standard? The country is criticized for invading Iraq, which was a dictatorship, and the site of more than a few, to put it gently, human rights violations. However now, you can chastise the country for not toppling more autocracies in the world?

This isn't supposed to be any sort of personal attack, just a poorly expressed thought.
Wouldn't you call it inconsistent, to say the least. especially since Saudi Arabia does have big terrorist ties and a large proportion of terrorists come from there? I thought it was US policy to hunt down terrorists and attack the countries that harbour them.
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6793|Columbus, Ohio

Superior Mind wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

Cause of like....oil and stuff.
Stop the debate.  This is the reason.
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7007|SE London

ATG wrote:

Other,
we're gonna let the Sunnis and Shia bleed each other for a while. Softening them up for a mop up operation.

At which point, I , as freely elected dictator, will outlaw religion forever.
Sounds like a plan. Count me in.
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|7007|SE London

usmarine2007 wrote:

Superior Mind wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

Cause of like....oil and stuff.
Stop the debate.  This is the reason.
He's right y'know.

They also spend a vast amount of their money they make from all that oil on US and EU military hardware. I think they're involved in the biggest military hardware deal in history at the moment with the UK, buying 70 odd Typhoons.  That's gotta be some sort of deterent as well as providing plenty of money for the west.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7026|132 and Bush

How's next Wednesday then?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
kilgoretrout
Member
+53|6896|Little Rock, AR
Also, Saudi Arabia owns a shitload of our national debt, don't they?  I'm fairly certain that I've read both China and Saudi Arabia own enough of our national debt that if they demanded payment on what we owe them, it would completely crash our economy.  But, I'm too lazy to look that up.  Anyone else read something similar?
CommieChipmunk
Member
+488|6995|Portland, OR, USA

kilgoretrout wrote:

Also, Saudi Arabia owns a shitload of our national debt, don't they?  I'm fairly certain that I've read both China and Saudi Arabia own enough of our national debt that if they demanded payment on what we owe them, it would completely crash our economy.  But, I'm too lazy to look that up.  Anyone else read something similar?
yep I've heard that.
iamangry
Member
+59|7071|The United States of America

kilgoretrout wrote:

Also, Saudi Arabia owns a shitload of our national debt, don't they?  I'm fairly certain that I've read both China and Saudi Arabia own enough of our national debt that if they demanded payment on what we owe them, it would completely crash our economy.  But, I'm too lazy to look that up.  Anyone else read something similar?
Well you see, here's how it usually works.  We liberate, and forgive their debts to us.  In this case, we would be invading, and forcing them to forgive OUR debts to THEM.
I really don't know why we didn't go after Saudi Arabia first, except that they weren't trying (or at least we don't think they're trying) to build nukes, and they execute their people in a much more orderly fashion i.e. they don't gas thousands of them at a time.   

@Kmarion:  Next Wednesday's not good for me, I have class.  Lets make it a weekend deal.  Oh... say... next Friday evening?
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7100|Canberra, AUS
None of those is completely correct - the main reason is because the saudis have such huge investments in the US that if those investments were cut, the US economy would be badly hit and may even collapse.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|7026|132 and Bush

Spark wrote:

None of those is completely correct - the main reason is because the saudis have such huge investments in the US that if those investments were cut, the US economy would be badly hit and may even collapse.
Explain these investments in detail please (Honest question).

Last edited by Kmarion (2007-01-16 22:53:57)

Xbone Stormsurgezz
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7100|Canberra, AUS
I don't have my original source with me (as it's in Australia and I'm 7000km away), but this little article should point you in the right direction:

http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20060115 … -3038r.htm

I note this section especially:


Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, who claims to abhor bin Laden, seems nevertheless eager to follow his agenda. In an interview with Arab News in May 2002, the prince said that if the Arabs "unite through economic interests," they would achieve influence over the U.S. decision-makers. Since government sources estimate Saudi holdings in the United States at $400 billion to $800 billion, the matter warrants public attention.
    The Saudi agenda extends far beyond policy-makers. In the late 1990s, the privately owned Massachusetts technology company, Ptech, designed software used to develop enterprise blueprints that held every important detail of a given concern. The company was financed with more than $22 million, by Saudi multi-millionaire Yasin al Qadi, a Specially Designated Global Terrorist. The Saudis thus gained access to strategic information about many major U.S. corporations such as SYSCO, ENRON, and the U.S. Departments of Defense, Treasury, Justice, Energy, and even the White House. The extent of the damage, if it was investigated, remains a mystery.
    Meanwhile, substantial Saudi and Gulf financial contributions "to bring the proper message to America's brightest minds," are pouring into U.S. educational institutions through Arab and Islamic centers and professorial chairs. Last month the prince gave $20 million each to Georgetown and Harvard universities. According to the Center for Religious Freedom, the Saudis also supply textbooks for public libraries, schools and colleges, and provide the content concerning Islam to some U.S. textbook publishers.
    The Saudis' potential influence on U.S. and international media was recently illustrated by the prince's purchase of 5.6 percent of voting shares in News Corp., the world's largest publisher of English newspapers. Moreover, Reuters reported on Dec. 5 that the prince announced his plan to "spread the right message" via a new television channel, "The Message," to broadcast to the U.S. within two years.
    Yet, information regarding the magnitude of the Saudi economic infiltration into the United States is secret. The U.S. Treasury's interpretation of the census law, supported by a 1982 court decision, shields this data from the public. On Oct. 27, 1982, the American Jewish Congress (AJC) was denied information requested under its own FOIA inquiry, by the U.S. District Court in Washington D.C. (Civ. A. No. 81-1745). The AJC litigated its FOIA case up to the Supreme Court, but the government won.
    Indeed, filing a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request to the Department of Commerce is useless. FOIA Director Burton H. Reist stated in December that this data "is protected by Title 13, United States Code, Section 9, which requires that census records be used solely for statistical purposes and also makes these records confidential." Furthermore, FOIA "exempts from disclosure records that are made confidential by statute." In other words, the government wants this information kept secret.
     Under the "International Investment & Trade in Services Survey Act," the U.S. Treasury Department tracks foreign portfolio, and Commerce tracks direct investments. This information is unavailable for Saudi Arabia or the Gulf States, following their request that the details be suppressed "to avoid disclosure of data of individual companies." For example, under the heading "Foreign holdings of U.S. long-term securities, by country," Treasury aggregates all eight "Middle East oil exporters." A Treasury Department official said that this aggregation is a "Treasury policy," and justifies the non-disclosure on grounds that this information could "harm national security and foreign relations."
That is a lot of the US economy - up to 6%.

Last edited by Spark (2007-01-16 22:59:51)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman

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