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2007-01-16 09:21:54
blisteringsilence
I'd rather hunt with Cheney than ride with Kennedy
+83|7128|Little Rock, Arkansas
OK all, I've struggled with how to go about this for a couple of hours now. There was great outcry from around the world when Saddam was executed a couple of weeks ago, and there's bound to be more after this botched hanging. Now, I know that the army has published a manual on how to go about hanging someone (if anyone can find a link to it, I'll put it here), and apparently it was not handed over to the Iraqi executioners along with the prisoners.

I would classify myself as anti-death penalty unless the accused wants to be killed.

Now, I'm sure that we've all seen the video of Saddam's hanging with all the curses and whatnot that the crowd were hurling at him.

What I want to know is if you've ever seen a video of an execution that he ordered.

I was surfing my old computer this morning, cleaning out old files, and came across a brief video of an Iraqi execution under Saddam. It is linked here. extreme warning! This video is VERY graphic, and should not be considered safe for work, safe for home when small children are around, etc.

I am in no way saying that he deserved to die. I am saying that he died in a much more humane manner than the people he ordered killed. Now, I don't know what these folks did. They *might* have been real criminals. Of course, the also *might* have been totally innocent.

Being decapitated during an execution is not good. It means they screwed up the execution. That being said, it is significantly better than the alternative, which would be to be left dangling in the wind while you strangle.

Discuss.
2007-01-16 09:23:18
joker3327
=IBF2=
+305|7024|Cheshire. UK
Tosser got off lightly
2007-01-16 09:29:51
Marlboroman82
Personal philosophy: Clothing optional.
+1,022|7049|Camp XRay

guess its better than being gassed for no reason at all
https://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/marlboroman82/Untitled-8.png
2007-01-16 09:33:11
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6955|Global Command
I've seen the most fucked up execution videos from Iraq.

I saw this one guy get ripped apart, drawn and quartered, with ropes around his legs and arms tied to jeeps.
I remember the guy looking at his spurting stump as he was dragged down the road.

Yes, they are fucking animals.
But for Gods sake the execution of Saddam was pretty stupid.
Almost as bad for us as Abu Garib, imo.
2007-01-16 09:34:03
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6871|The Land of Scott Walker

Marlboroman82 wrote:

guess its better than being gassed for no reason at all
2007-01-16 09:41:30
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6955|Global Command
Ah, theres the divide.

The ATF murdered a whole bunch of people in Waco Texas. They were considered criminals so the American people didn't have much sympathy.
They were doused with tear gas, flushed out of the building with fire and then machine gunned as they fled.

Saddam believed that as a soveriegn leader, he had a right to deal with criminals anyway he saw fit.

Hard to argue with that!
2007-01-16 10:14:05
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|7079

Marlboroman82 wrote:

guess its better than being gassed for no reason at all
But now there never will be a trial for the gassing of the Kurds.  The three main defendants have all been sentenced to death for relatively minor crimes (note: relatively), and all the other charges dropped.

People may as well stop using the mustard gassing to try and demonstrate the evil of Saddam's regime because if hearsay and a few photographs is enough to prove someone is guilty, then George Bush should be the one hanging for using chemical weapons on civilians at Fallujah.
2007-01-16 10:30:26
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6793|Columbus, Ohio

UON wrote:

Marlboroman82 wrote:

guess its better than being gassed for no reason at all
But now there never will be a trial for the gassing of the Kurds.  The three main defendants have all been sentenced to death for relatively minor crimes (note: relatively), and all the other charges dropped.

People may as well stop using the mustard gassing to try and demonstrate the evil of Saddam's regime because if hearsay and a few photographs is enough to prove someone is guilty, then George Bush should be the one hanging for using chemical weapons on civilians at Fallujah.
wow.....I cannot believe what I just read.

Last edited by usmarine2007 (2007-01-16 10:31:08)

2007-01-16 10:32:38
Marlboroman82
Personal philosophy: Clothing optional.
+1,022|7049|Camp XRay

UON wrote:

Marlboroman82 wrote:

guess its better than being gassed for no reason at all
But now there never will be a trial for the gassing of the Kurds.  The three main defendants have all been sentenced to death for relatively minor crimes (note: relatively), and all the other charges dropped.

People may as well stop using the mustard gassing to try and demonstrate the evil of Saddam's regime because if hearsay and a few photographs is enough to prove someone is guilty, then George Bush should be the one hanging for using chemical weapons on civilians at Fallujah.
so just because he is not being tried for that crime we should just forget it ever happened? also the george bush comment may be the dumbest thing i have ever read.
https://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/marlboroman82/Untitled-8.png
2007-01-16 10:33:30
=Karma-Kills=
"Don't post while intoxicated."
+356|7010|England

joker3327 wrote:

Tosser got off lightly
Second
2007-01-16 10:34:58
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|7079

Marlboroman82 wrote:

UON wrote:

Marlboroman82 wrote:

guess its better than being gassed for no reason at all
But now there never will be a trial for the gassing of the Kurds.  The three main defendants have all been sentenced to death for relatively minor crimes (note: relatively), and all the other charges dropped.

People may as well stop using the mustard gassing to try and demonstrate the evil of Saddam's regime because if hearsay and a few photographs is enough to prove someone is guilty, then George Bush should be the one hanging for using chemical weapons on civilians at Fallujah.
so just because he is not being tried for that crime we should just forget it ever happened? also the george bush comment may be the dumbest thing i have ever read.
Innocent until proven guilty.
2007-01-16 10:37:20
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6955|Global Command

Marlboroman82 wrote:

UON wrote:

Marlboroman82 wrote:

guess its better than being gassed for no reason at all
But now there never will be a trial for the gassing of the Kurds.  The three main defendants have all been sentenced to death for relatively minor crimes (note: relatively), and all the other charges dropped.

People may as well stop using the mustard gassing to try and demonstrate the evil of Saddam's regime because if hearsay and a few photographs is enough to prove someone is guilty, then George Bush should be the one hanging for using chemical weapons on civilians at Fallujah.
so just because he is not being tried for that crime we should just forget it ever happened? also the george bush comment may be the dumbest thing i have ever read.
Well, if you consider the constant bombardment of moralistic negative judgements being blasted to the world you could cut him some slack.

He's probably referring to the use of White phosphorous, aka Willy Peter. This is a tool many countries would like to classify as a chemical weapon, but we won't.

If Willy Pete is a chemical weapon, so is gun powder.
2007-01-16 10:40:27
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|7079

ATG wrote:

If Willy Pete is a chemical weapon, so is gun powder.
But it's the burning chemical reaction with the moisture on the skin which causes the damage when WP is fired at soft targets.  Gun powder has no such reaction, so it's not really the same.
2007-01-16 10:41:57
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6793|Columbus, Ohio

UON wrote:

ATG wrote:

If Willy Pete is a chemical weapon, so is gun powder.
But it's the burning chemical reaction with the moisture on the skin which causes the damage when WP is fired at soft targets.  Gun powder has no such reaction, so it's not really the same.
Were flame throwers in WWII illegal weapons?
2007-01-16 10:46:30
blisteringsilence
I'd rather hunt with Cheney than ride with Kennedy
+83|7128|Little Rock, Arkansas

UON wrote:

Marlboroman82 wrote:

guess its better than being gassed for no reason at all
But now there never will be a trial for the gassing of the Kurds.  The three main defendants have all been sentenced to death for relatively minor crimes (note: relatively), and all the other charges dropped.

People may as well stop using the mustard gassing to try and demonstrate the evil of Saddam's regime because if hearsay and a few photographs is enough to prove someone is guilty, then George Bush should be the one hanging for using chemical weapons on civilians at Fallujah.
Hearsay and a couple of photographs.....

http://projects.sipri.se/cbw/research/m … ran_cw.pdf

I'd say this guy did a pretty good job.

OK, I won't use his gassing of the Kurds as an example of the horrors of Saddam's regin. I'll use the execution of the people in the video I posted. I'll use his condoning and allowing the actions of his son Uday.I'll use the abuse of the oil for food program that led to the malnourshment and death of his people as examples.

Saddam was a bad man. I don't think he deserved to die. I would much rather have had him locked in a cell in Gitmo staring at the Stars and Stripes every day for the rest of his life.

That being said, I think that we all can agree that he got off easier than the folks in the video.

Last edited by blisteringsilence (2007-01-16 10:47:20)

2007-01-16 10:46:46
samfink
Member
+31|6981
to be honest, itsickens me slightly that the exzcecution was bungled so much that te guys' head was ripped off. oh, i know he deserved to die, but bungled so that his head was rippe doff? neck snapped, fine, if anything it would be kinder, but not having his head ripped off.
2007-01-16 10:46:47
sfarrar33
Halogenoalkane
+57|7044|InGerLand
awww 'page not found'
i'd be more worried about the fact that some (maybe the majority but i don't know) do not like their government much
and the same government just made two major f*ck ups so there popularity will rocket in a literal sense, and remember 'rockets explode'
2007-01-16 10:53:12
usmarine2007
Banned
+374|6793|Columbus, Ohio

UON wrote:

Marlboroman82 wrote:

UON wrote:

But now there never will be a trial for the gassing of the Kurds.  The three main defendants have all been sentenced to death for relatively minor crimes (note: relatively), and all the other charges dropped.

People may as well stop using the mustard gassing to try and demonstrate the evil of Saddam's regime because if hearsay and a few photographs is enough to prove someone is guilty, then George Bush should be the one hanging for using chemical weapons on civilians at Fallujah.
so just because he is not being tried for that crime we should just forget it ever happened? also the george bush comment may be the dumbest thing i have ever read.
Innocent until proven guilty.
Hitler was never convicted.  By your theory he is innocent also.
2007-01-16 10:54:48
blisteringsilence
I'd rather hunt with Cheney than ride with Kennedy
+83|7128|Little Rock, Arkansas

samfink wrote:

to be honest, itsickens me slightly that the exzcecution was bungled so much that te guys' head was ripped off. oh, i know he deserved to die, but bungled so that his head was rippe doff? neck snapped, fine, if anything it would be kinder, but not having his head ripped off.
When you're talking about a hanging, there are three options: strangulation, death by broken neck, and decapitation. Of those, I'd rather be decapitated than suffocate to death. It wouldn't hurt.

sfarrar33 wrote:

awww 'page not found'
i'd be more worried about the fact that some (maybe the majority but i don't know) do not like their government much
and the same government just made two major f*ck ups so there popularity will rocket in a literal sense, and remember 'rockets explode'
the link is fixed now, I had to rename the file on my server. Sorry.

UON wrote:

ATG wrote:

If Willy Pete is a chemical weapon, so is gun powder.
But it's the burning chemical reaction with the moisture on the skin which causes the damage when WP is fired at soft targets.  Gun powder has no such reaction, so it's not really the same.
There is enough water vapor in the air to keep the combustion of WP going, it really doesn't need mositure of the skin. WP isn't a chemical weapon by any definition. It IS a chemical, however, just like gunpowder, the thread that makes kevlar, and everything else on the planet.

PS - its easier to confuse the ignorant that those who have a degree in chemistry.
2007-01-16 11:04:16
bob_6012
Resident M-14 fanatic
+59|7081|Lancaster Ohio, USA

ATG wrote:

Ah, theres the divide.

The ATF murdered a whole bunch of people in Waco Texas. They were considered criminals so the American people didn't have much sympathy.
They were doused with tear gas, flushed out of the building with fire and then machine gunned as they fled.

Saddam believed that as a soveriegn leader, he had a right to deal with criminals anyway he saw fit.

Hard to argue with that!
Ok I'm not gonna try and start too much of a fight here, but you don't get "doused" with tear gas, it's a gas, like air, not a liquid. I'm not sure if they know how the fire started and I don't think that they would mow down people with automatic weapons fire, that's seems a bit of the loony side to me. Having said that back on the main topic. Yes people used to have their heads popped off during hangings because there was too much weight around their ankles so that instead of breaking the neck it broke it clean off. It's just the sign of an amateur execution.

Edit: wording

Last edited by bob_6012 (2007-01-16 11:04:59)

2007-01-16 11:11:41
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|7079

usmarine2007 wrote:

UON wrote:

Marlboroman82 wrote:


so just because he is not being tried for that crime we should just forget it ever happened? also the george bush comment may be the dumbest thing i have ever read.
Innocent until proven guilty.
Hitler was never convicted.  By your theory he is innocent also.
He was never charged.  Innocent until guilty refers to rights at trial.  Saddam was charged, the charges were dropped.
2007-01-16 11:14:05
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|7079

blisteringsilence wrote:

PS - its easier to confuse the ignorant that those who have a degree in chemistry.
At what humidity is there enough, oh mighty chemical genius?
2007-01-16 11:15:17
blisteringsilence
I'd rather hunt with Cheney than ride with Kennedy
+83|7128|Little Rock, Arkansas

UON wrote:

usmarine2007 wrote:

UON wrote:


Innocent until proven guilty.
Hitler was never convicted.  By your theory he is innocent also.
He was never charged.  Innocent until guilty refers to rights at trial.  Saddam was charged, the charges were dropped.
Because obviously you need to convict someone and sentance them to die 6 or 7 times, one isn't sufficient. You pick the easiest case you can find. Ask McVeigh. Oh wait, you can't. He's dead.

BTW, under Sharia law, you are *not* innocent until proven guilty.
2007-01-16 11:19:46
KORdaemon
Member
+2|6798

UON wrote:

Marlboroman82 wrote:

guess its better than being gassed for no reason at all
But now there never will be a trial for the gassing of the Kurds.  The three main defendants have all been sentenced to death for relatively minor crimes (note: relatively), and all the other charges dropped.

People may as well stop using the mustard gassing to try and demonstrate the evil of Saddam's regime because if hearsay and a few photographs is enough to prove someone is guilty, then George Bush should be the one hanging for using chemical weapons on civilians at Fallujah.
here here

and about the execution itself, i gues decapitation is pretty brutal but still, i'm pretty sure it was very quick if there was enough force to do that in the first place.
i personally don't think he should've been executed at all though, he should've spent the rest of his life in some prison somewhere.

Last edited by KORdaemon (2007-01-16 11:31:47)

2007-01-16 11:20:35
Marlboroman82
Personal philosophy: Clothing optional.
+1,022|7049|Camp XRay

UON wrote:

blisteringsilence wrote:

PS - its easier to confuse the ignorant that those who have a degree in chemistry.
At what humidity is there enough, oh mighty chemical genius?
so have you picked today as the day you will make your stand for all the retards on bf2s, stand up for all the kids that ride the short bus?
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