True. Not sure what they were thinking.Turquoise wrote:
Well, I agree with that too. The part where we are fools is assuming that we can transform them into a functioning democracy.usmarine2007 wrote:
Fools of ourselves? Sorry, but in my opinion, the Iraqi people are making fools of themselves. Apparently without rape rooms and executions, they cannot be a stable country.
Yes actually... We and the U.S.S.R. used the majority of the world as our playground for battles during the Cold War. We fought each other through mostly other nations by funding opposing sides in civil wars and regional wars. This tradition of picking sides among the world's conflicts did not stop with the end of the Cold War, however.Deadmonkiefart wrote:
Oppression and Imperialism?Elamdri wrote:
I think for the most part the rest of the world sees the US in a state of role reversal. They see the US, which has a history of revolution and progress, instead taking a role of opression and imperialism, which they see as hypocritical when compared to our history.
Today, we continue this tradition despite not having a conventional enemy to focus on. The problem is not the fight itself, but in the tactics we use. We're fighting this like terrorism is an evil empire, but instead, we should be doing everything we can to improve the economics of the affected areas. Collectively raising standards of living and promoting secular education in the Middle East is how you truly win "hearts and minds". War just isn't cutting it, but it may be too late to reverse some of the damage we've done....
The damage WE'VE done??!!.........These animals have been killing each other for 5000 years if not more. How can you sit there and say that the turmoil in the ME is caused by the west?? There is nothing anyone can do to bring peace in the ME not even your beloved "peace at any price" Jimmy Carter. Those idiots are hell bent on destroying each other. You will never change that shit. This war is only being fought so we make sure that THEIR animalistic 2000 year old morals and rationality stays in the confines of the ME. I couldn't care less about how many of each other they kill, but they better keep their bullshit religion and their bullshit behavior in their region. In the next few decades oil will be obsolete and the rest of the world will pass those jack offs by and leave them in the dust to stone each other to their hearts content, and good fuckin' riddance.Turquoise wrote:
Yes actually... We and the U.S.S.R. used the majority of the world as our playground for battles during the Cold War. We fought each other through mostly other nations by funding opposing sides in civil wars and regional wars. This tradition of picking sides among the world's conflicts did not stop with the end of the Cold War, however.Deadmonkiefart wrote:
Oppression and Imperialism?Elamdri wrote:
I think for the most part the rest of the world sees the US in a state of role reversal. They see the US, which has a history of revolution and progress, instead taking a role of opression and imperialism, which they see as hypocritical when compared to our history.
Today, we continue this tradition despite not having a conventional enemy to focus on. The problem is not the fight itself, but in the tactics we use. We're fighting this like terrorism is an evil empire, but instead, we should be doing everything we can to improve the economics of the affected areas. Collectively raising standards of living and promoting secular education in the Middle East is how you truly win "hearts and minds". War just isn't cutting it, but it may be too late to reverse some of the damage we've done....
Last edited by lowing (2007-01-14 04:22:51)
Win Win Winlowing wrote:
The damage WE'VE done??!!.........These animals have been killing each other for 5000 years if not more. How can you sit there and say that the turmoil in the ME is caused by the west?? There is nothing anyone can do to bring peace in the ME not even your beloved "peace at any price" Jimmy Carter. Those idiots are hell bent on destroying each other. You will never change that shit. This war is only being fought so we make sure that THEIR animalistic 2000 year old morals and rationality stays in the confines of the ME. I couldn't care less about how many of each other they kill, but they better keep their bullshit religion and their bullshit behavior in their region. In the next few decades oil will be obsolete and the rest of the world will pass those jack offs by and leave them in the dust to stone each other to their hearts content, and good fuckin' riddance.Turquoise wrote:
Yes actually... We and the U.S.S.R. used the majority of the world as our playground for battles during the Cold War. We fought each other through mostly other nations by funding opposing sides in civil wars and regional wars. This tradition of picking sides among the world's conflicts did not stop with the end of the Cold War, however.Deadmonkiefart wrote:
Oppression and Imperialism?
Today, we continue this tradition despite not having a conventional enemy to focus on. The problem is not the fight itself, but in the tactics we use. We're fighting this like terrorism is an evil empire, but instead, we should be doing everything we can to improve the economics of the affected areas. Collectively raising standards of living and promoting secular education in the Middle East is how you truly win "hearts and minds". War just isn't cutting it, but it may be too late to reverse some of the damage we've done....
usmarine is confused by the capacity for empathy. maybe we dont have to have bombs dropped on our houses or to lose our jobs to know that stealing and killing is wrong.usmarine2007 wrote:
I still do not get why people from other countries get so angry with the US and its policies to the point where it is pretty much all you talk about. Tell me how Iraq effects you? I mean how does it really effects you?
I am sure most of you(the older ones) are just like me..... wake up, go to work, come home relax, sleep, and repeat cycle. On weekends you hang out with friends and family, or do stuff that interests you. Even here in America, that has not changed for me or anyone I know. I still get promoted and make more money the harder I work.
Now, for Americans, Iraq can make you mad because it is our tax dollars. Tell me how it truly affects you in Ireland for example. (not aimed at you Cam) I know the US economy pretty much affects everyone, but are you broke because of it? Is your daily life and routine all messed up because of the US? Somehow I highly doubt it. Why do I doubt it? Because it has not even caused me any problems, yet I live here and have even been to Iraq and Afghanistan.
I know this is a discussion forum, but some of you get way to angry and pissed off at the US to the point where it seems you are obsessed with the USA. Maybe you put the same effort into worrying about your own country, but it sure does not show.
ps. For the use of effect and affect being used incorrectly....I know. I cannot remember the correct usage for some reason right now.
i cant believe you would make a thread like this. it is so obvious that you only care about yourself. You need somebody to carefully explain to you why they would go out of their way for other people.
That is actually standard kindergarten curriculum right there.
Stealing and killing what?Marinejuana wrote:
usmarine is confused by the capacity for empathy. maybe we dont have to have bombs dropped on our houses or to lose our jobs to know that stealing and killing is wrong.usmarine2007 wrote:
I still do not get why people from other countries get so angry with the US and its policies to the point where it is pretty much all you talk about. Tell me how Iraq effects you? I mean how does it really effects you?
I am sure most of you(the older ones) are just like me..... wake up, go to work, come home relax, sleep, and repeat cycle. On weekends you hang out with friends and family, or do stuff that interests you. Even here in America, that has not changed for me or anyone I know. I still get promoted and make more money the harder I work.
Now, for Americans, Iraq can make you mad because it is our tax dollars. Tell me how it truly affects you in Ireland for example. (not aimed at you Cam) I know the US economy pretty much affects everyone, but are you broke because of it? Is your daily life and routine all messed up because of the US? Somehow I highly doubt it. Why do I doubt it? Because it has not even caused me any problems, yet I live here and have even been to Iraq and Afghanistan.
I know this is a discussion forum, but some of you get way to angry and pissed off at the US to the point where it seems you are obsessed with the USA. Maybe you put the same effort into worrying about your own country, but it sure does not show.
ps. For the use of effect and affect being used incorrectly....I know. I cannot remember the correct usage for some reason right now.
i cant believe you would make a thread like this. it is so obvious that you only care about yourself. You need somebody to carefully explain to you why they would go out of their way for other people.
That is actually standard kindergarten curriculum right there.
oil. people.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
Stealing and killing what?Marinejuana wrote:
usmarine is confused by the capacity for empathy. maybe we dont have to have bombs dropped on our houses or to lose our jobs to know that stealing and killing is wrong.usmarine2007 wrote:
I still do not get why people from other countries get so angry with the US and its policies to the point where it is pretty much all you talk about. Tell me how Iraq effects you? I mean how does it really effects you?
I am sure most of you(the older ones) are just like me..... wake up, go to work, come home relax, sleep, and repeat cycle. On weekends you hang out with friends and family, or do stuff that interests you. Even here in America, that has not changed for me or anyone I know. I still get promoted and make more money the harder I work.
Now, for Americans, Iraq can make you mad because it is our tax dollars. Tell me how it truly affects you in Ireland for example. (not aimed at you Cam) I know the US economy pretty much affects everyone, but are you broke because of it? Is your daily life and routine all messed up because of the US? Somehow I highly doubt it. Why do I doubt it? Because it has not even caused me any problems, yet I live here and have even been to Iraq and Afghanistan.
I know this is a discussion forum, but some of you get way to angry and pissed off at the US to the point where it seems you are obsessed with the USA. Maybe you put the same effort into worrying about your own country, but it sure does not show.
ps. For the use of effect and affect being used incorrectly....I know. I cannot remember the correct usage for some reason right now.
i cant believe you would make a thread like this. it is so obvious that you only care about yourself. You need somebody to carefully explain to you why they would go out of their way for other people.
That is actually standard kindergarten curriculum right there.
i come to these forums because i like bf2. bf2 is very entertaining, its hard to say why but it has a lot to do with irony for me. and no, i dont spend my time saving the world, i am sorry for that. my work is in wildlife conservation, and i admit that i mostly do it for myself. is this so wrong? that i would dedicate my time to fulfilling my own interests?usmarine2007 wrote:
If you are so high and mighty and above all of us, then why are you here? What do you do to help improve the world and save it from ATG and myself? Let me guess, sit around and smoke pot?
I have seen war my friend...have you? Do not tell me I do not know what is going on. kthx
Last edited by usmarine2007 (Today 09:49:45)
i think maybe u should fill your time with the same thing. only u should find interests that dont involve killing innocent people by the thousands.
i am by no means a "great" person, but i guess i still am above a bunch a losers that sit around typing up violent propaganda.
and u make it sound like shooting down these ideas is hard work. arguing with you guys is like playing tee ball.
you have seen war? well evidently it has poisnoned your mind. please stop treating the world like a warzone when people are trying to live out their lives.
Last edited by Marinejuana (2007-01-14 10:33:58)
Actually, I think he might have been calling me on my spelling...Turquoise wrote:
Yes actually... We and the U.S.S.R. used the majority of the world as our playground for battles during the Cold War. We fought each other through mostly other nations by funding opposing sides in civil wars and regional wars. This tradition of picking sides among the world's conflicts did not stop with the end of the Cold War, however.Deadmonkiefart wrote:
Oppression and Imperialism?Elamdri wrote:
I think for the most part the rest of the world sees the US in a state of role reversal. They see the US, which has a history of revolution and progress, instead taking a role of opression and imperialism, which they see as hypocritical when compared to our history.
Today, we continue this tradition despite not having a conventional enemy to focus on. The problem is not the fight itself, but in the tactics we use. We're fighting this like terrorism is an evil empire, but instead, we should be doing everything we can to improve the economics of the affected areas. Collectively raising standards of living and promoting secular education in the Middle East is how you truly win "hearts and minds". War just isn't cutting it, but it may be too late to reverse some of the damage we've done....
You do realize that oil has pretty much nothing to do with Iraq right? Stealing oil? Err people will start to notice if you dock large tankers in the bays of Iraq and ship them to the US... Besides, Canada already has pipes running oil down to the US, a lot closer and if they wanted oil, why didn't they invade Canada? Well killing people... Yeah people who shoot back at American soldiers... Civilians are just collateral damage.Marinejuana wrote:
oil. people.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
Stealing and killing what?Marinejuana wrote:
usmarine is confused by the capacity for empathy. maybe we dont have to have bombs dropped on our houses or to lose our jobs to know that stealing and killing is wrong.
i cant believe you would make a thread like this. it is so obvious that you only care about yourself. You need somebody to carefully explain to you why they would go out of their way for other people.
That is actually standard kindergarten curriculum right there.
Knowing the demographic shift in Europe, do you honestly think that European nations will not eventually come into conflict with fundamentalist Muslim nations or groups? Certainly our support for Israel and our presence in the Middle East is not popular, but then again our very existence drives fundamentalists to fight. While we shouldn't go out of our way to be unpopular in the Middle East, we have to realize that there's only so much we can do to placate them before we begin cutting into our own interests.JahManRed wrote:
Personally I didn't care for America anymore than other countries, just another country I wanted to tour a bit, which I did.
I only became interested and started to read up on it all when I became a parent. America's global policies are the biggest threat to world peace in my opinion. Thats my opinion and I am entitled to air it. The shit is going down in the middle east which is also allot closer to me than it is to Americans. You can get in a car and drive there from here.
It may not be apparent in my time, but my children and grandchildren may have to go to war over American/uk policies. Tony Blair prity much confirmed my fears today when he announced that the UK should prepare for a "generation of conflict" thats my sons generation and its is conceivable that he may be drafted to go fight this war on terror at some point in his life. I think if America had closed it borders, looked after herself concentrated on home security and not went off on this Neo Con New World Order dream the world would be a much stabler and safer place. That Neo Con shit is a reality. You can criticize me for being anti American, but I a not, I am anti this New World Order and the various wars that must be fought to make it a reality.
Hopefully Ireland will be united by then and my son will be an Irish man with no need to fight wars.
All you do is insult and talk down to people.........some tee ball game you are playing.Marinejuana wrote:
i am by no means a "great" person, but i guess i still am above a bunch a losers that sit around typing up violent propaganda.
and u make it sound like shooting down these ideas is hard work. arguing with you guys is like playing tee ball.
I think the main reason for invading Iraq over Canada would be that people care about Canada; no one cares about Iraq. Plus Canada isn't run by a dictator, so you can't use that as an excuse for invading. And Canada doesn't have any WMD's, unlike Ira.... oh wait...cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
You do realize that oil has pretty much nothing to do with Iraq right? Stealing oil? Err people will start to notice if you dock large tankers in the bays of Iraq and ship them to the US... Besides, Canada already has pipes running oil down to the US, a lot closer and if they wanted oil, why didn't they invade Canada? Well killing people... Yeah people who shoot back at American soldiers... Civilians are just collateral damage.Marinejuana wrote:
oil. people.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
Stealing and killing what?
Here we go with the high and might theory of Mr. Juana. Since you live in the US Mr. Juana, and since we stole oil and murdered people for it, yet you use the oil, you sir are an oil stealing murderer also. have a nice day.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
You do realize that oil has pretty much nothing to do with Iraq right? Stealing oil? Err people will start to notice if you dock large tankers in the bays of Iraq and ship them to the US... Besides, Canada already has pipes running oil down to the US, a lot closer and if they wanted oil, why didn't they invade Canada? Well killing people... Yeah people who shoot back at American soldiers... Civilians are just collateral damage.Marinejuana wrote:
oil. people.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
Stealing and killing what?
Kmarion Wrong! Your whole post is flawed. We do not "have to deal with their brutal past" we accept that our ancestors did things that modern day culture doesnt agree with, however that doesnt make it our responsibility. However anything America has done that is bad since WWII is your responsibility if not your living parents thus you are the ones that are having to deal with a brutal PRESENT.
When will Americans get over comparing Europe 100+ years ago to things America does to day, ive said it before ill say it again, "It makes you look like cavemen" if not atleast people living 100 years in the past, who are still obsessed with colonies.
The reason you, parker and Marine think everyone has a problem is because moderate Americans on this forum (most American posters) dont want to get called un patriotic or traitors by other people on these forums. Thus there is no one from your own country telling you straight up that your foreign policy is wrong. Just plain WRONG.
When will Americans get over comparing Europe 100+ years ago to things America does to day, ive said it before ill say it again, "It makes you look like cavemen" if not atleast people living 100 years in the past, who are still obsessed with colonies.
The reason you, parker and Marine think everyone has a problem is because moderate Americans on this forum (most American posters) dont want to get called un patriotic or traitors by other people on these forums. Thus there is no one from your own country telling you straight up that your foreign policy is wrong. Just plain WRONG.
That's a good post...usmarine2007 wrote:
I still do not get why people from other countries get so angry with the US and its policies to the point where it is pretty much all you talk about. Tell me how Iraq effects you? I mean how does it really effects you?
I am sure most of you(the older ones) are just like me..... wake up, go to work, come home relax, sleep, and repeat cycle. On weekends you hang out with friends and family, or do stuff that interests you. Even here in America, that has not changed for me or anyone I know. I still get promoted and make more money the harder I work.
Now, for Americans, Iraq can make you mad because it is our tax dollars. Tell me how it truly affects you in Ireland for example. (not aimed at you Cam) I know the US economy pretty much affects everyone, but are you broke because of it? Is your daily life and routine all messed up because of the US? Somehow I highly doubt it. Why do I doubt it? Because it has not even caused me any problems, yet I live here and have even been to Iraq and Afghanistan.
I know this is a discussion forum, but some of you get way to angry and pissed off at the US to the point where it seems you are obsessed with the USA. Maybe you put the same effort into worrying about your own country, but it sure does not show.
ps. For the use of effect and affect being used incorrectly....I know. I cannot remember the correct usage for some reason right now.
I america doesn't realize that as the worlds most powerful county, we affect other countries much more than we see. The entire world sees what we do, and it's natural for them to make a judgment about our actions. As a country that has this much power, we need to be leaders by example... and depending on your politics (and more importantly, moral values), we may be doing a bad job of that. Good post though... interesting question.
If he didn't kill someone and take his oil, he's hardly an oil stealing murderer. Besides, unless your car runs off of vegetable oil or something, you can't go around accusing people of being "oil stealing murderers."usmarine2007 wrote:
Here we go with the high and might theory of Mr. Juana. Since you live in the US Mr. Juana, and since we stole oil and murdered people for it, yet you use the oil, you sir are an oil stealing murderer also. have a nice day.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
You do realize that oil has pretty much nothing to do with Iraq right? Stealing oil? Err people will start to notice if you dock large tankers in the bays of Iraq and ship them to the US... Besides, Canada already has pipes running oil down to the US, a lot closer and if they wanted oil, why didn't they invade Canada? Well killing people... Yeah people who shoot back at American soldiers... Civilians are just collateral damage.Marinejuana wrote:
oil. people.
Do you people read what other people say? He called me an oil stealing murderer. Now, using stolen goods is just as bad as stealing it right? According to our laws yes.UGADawgs wrote:
If he didn't kill someone and take his oil, he's hardly an oil stealing murderer. Besides, unless your car runs off of vegetable oil or something, you can't go around accusing people of being "oil stealing murderers."usmarine2007 wrote:
Here we go with the high and might theory of Mr. Juana. Since you live in the US Mr. Juana, and since we stole oil and murdered people for it, yet you use the oil, you sir are an oil stealing murderer also. have a nice day.cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
You do realize that oil has pretty much nothing to do with Iraq right? Stealing oil? Err people will start to notice if you dock large tankers in the bays of Iraq and ship them to the US... Besides, Canada already has pipes running oil down to the US, a lot closer and if they wanted oil, why didn't they invade Canada? Well killing people... Yeah people who shoot back at American soldiers... Civilians are just collateral damage.
Yeah, but you support killing people and borrowing their oil!usmarine2007 wrote:
Do you people read what other people say? He called me an oil stealing murderer. Now, using stolen goods is just as bad as stealing it right? According to our laws yes.UGADawgs wrote:
If he didn't kill someone and take his oil, he's hardly an oil stealing murderer. Besides, unless your car runs off of vegetable oil or something, you can't go around accusing people of being "oil stealing murderers."usmarine2007 wrote:
Here we go with the high and might theory of Mr. Juana. Since you live in the US Mr. Juana, and since we stole oil and murdered people for it, yet you use the oil, you sir are an oil stealing murderer also. have a nice day.
No..I don't. Fuck you for implying that asshole.ghettoperson wrote:
Yeah, but you support killing people and borrowing their oil!usmarine2007 wrote:
Do you people read what other people say? He called me an oil stealing murderer. Now, using stolen goods is just as bad as stealing it right? According to our laws yes.UGADawgs wrote:
If he didn't kill someone and take his oil, he's hardly an oil stealing murderer. Besides, unless your car runs off of vegetable oil or something, you can't go around accusing people of being "oil stealing murderers."
Apologies, forgot the <sarc> tags. I forgot that you probably would miss it.usmarine2007 wrote:
No..I don't. Fuck you for implying that asshole.ghettoperson wrote:
Yeah, but you support killing people and borrowing their oil!usmarine2007 wrote:
Do you people read what other people say? He called me an oil stealing murderer. Now, using stolen goods is just as bad as stealing it right? According to our laws yes.
Oh...well then I un-fuck you.ghettoperson wrote:
Apologies, forgot the <sarc> tags. I forgot that you probably would miss it.usmarine2007 wrote:
No..I don't. Fuck you for implying that asshole.ghettoperson wrote:
Yeah, but you support killing people and borrowing their oil!
Last edited by usmarine2007 (2007-01-14 12:25:20)
Because soldiers from my country are there fighting too.usmarine2007 wrote:
I still do not get why people from other countries get so angry with the US and its policies to the point where it is pretty much all you talk about. Tell me how Iraq effects you?
Remember London July 7 2005 which was carried out by associates of al-Qaeda as a protest against British involvement in Iraq?usmarine2007 wrote:
I mean how does it really effects you?.
Other countries are out there with you being attacked I guess they feel you forget that (I'm not saying you do but it's the impression your posts give).
Personally I wish Blair had the balls to refuse to go to war in the first place but he didn't so were stuck with the situation, and of course I'm going to be interested in American policies to see what Blair will try to follow blindly.
Last edited by crimson_grunt (2007-01-14 12:34:05)
That is my point. Why aren't there countless threads from UK people about their government and Blair?crimson_grunt wrote:
Because soldiers from my country are there fighting too.usmarine2007 wrote:
I still do not get why people from other countries get so angry with the US and its policies to the point where it is pretty much all you talk about. Tell me how Iraq effects you?Remember London July 11 2005 which was carried out by associates of al-Qaeda as a protest against British involvement in Iraq?usmarine2007 wrote:
I mean how does it really effects you?.
Other countries are out there with you being attacked I guess they feel you forget that (I'm not saying you do but it's the impression your posts give).
Personally I wish Blair had the balls to refuse to go to war in the first place but he didn't so were stuck with the situation, and of course I'm going to be interested in American policies to see what Blair will try to follow blindly.
What happened on the 11th of July?crimson_grunt wrote:
Remember London July 11 2005 which was carried out by associates of al-Qaeda as a protest against British involvement in Iraq?usmarine2007 wrote:
I mean how does it really effects you?.
Well no, but you can look it up on the internet and masterbate to it. Pictures of Angelina Jolie, that is.SysTray wrote:
Of course there is. Someone who talks about Angelina Jolie is different from someone who stalks her, right? Do people stalk America? Can you stalk America? How can you be obsessed with a country? I don't think you can...usmarine2007 wrote:
I see what you guys are saying. But there is a difference between discussion and obsession.
Malloy must go