Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7101|Canberra, AUS
Well, yes, it is "communist" but is it REALLY communist?

Nothing I have seen here in a long time (this is my 5th time here) makes me think that Vietnam still adheres to communist principles. Capitalism is everywhere, you can see reflections of western society everywhere you look. Censorship? There is no censorship. Vietnamese TV is state run but that's OK because everyone has international satellite TV anyway. Airport officials look military but that's about it, apart from their uniforms. Apart from the occasional national holiday there is nothing to remind you of the fact that 1. This was the location of one of the longest wars in recent history and 2. This nation still has a communist government.

Should we take Vietnam off the communist list?
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6955|Global Command
Hmnn...good question.
I guess i feel that yes, enough time has passed and enough reforms have been made.
DonFck
Hibernator
+3,227|7057|Finland

You seem to define communism in a way that there should be censorship. I'd have to disagree. The ideology lives on in Vietnam, the only difference between communism there and "Communism" e.g. in former USSR, is that a) there is no censorship b) The system is adjusted to fit the countrys needs.

Actually, the Soviet Union ceased to be communist soon after the revolution. Censorship, cultural oppression, restricting people from moving freely etc. are fascist features, not communist/socialist. The communist ideology actually promotes equality of culture, religion etc. The Soviets just got it totally wrong. I'd imagine that Lenin would have been appauled by the way the country was lead by Stalin.

Vietnam adjusts it's politics, just like capitalist countries adjust theirs. I'd continue calling Vietnam communist. I'd just call it functioning communism. It helps when there aren't any western nations placing embargos, too..
I need around tree fiddy.
TeamZephyr
Maintaining My Rage Since 1975
+124|6955|Hillside, Melbourne, Australia
The irony about "modern" communism that was created by Lenin and Trotsky in the early 20th century was that it was actually capitalism.

Vietnam is not a communist nation, none of the nations in the world are currently "communist" nations as the means of production and organization of wealth are controlled by few individuals, those individuals being dictators.

A real socialistic nation is a pure democracy, where the means of production and the control of wealth is controlled by the working class as a whole, not controlled by a brutal dictator as we have seen in the Soviet Union, North Korea and in some cases Cuba.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|7101|Canberra, AUS
My point was that vietnam is not "communist" in the conventional sense, that it has become more like Thailand or Indonesia or Malaysia.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6945|Πάϊ
What is this "conventional sense" you speak of? Are you thinking totalitarian stalinist regime? Because that is not communism... that's just McCarthy trying to get public support! lol Bear in mind that

DonFck wrote:

the Soviet Union ceased to be communist soon after the revolution. Censorship, cultural oppression, restricting people from moving freely etc. are fascist features, not communist/socialist.
ƒ³
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6981
No Vietnam is not communist. Guevara would be rolling in his grave. Even back in the 60s he spoke out against the USSR, going as far as to call them imperialists just like the capitalists. Here is a general diatribe he gave that was basically the final nail in his coffin in terms of soviet support:

"The development of those countries now entering the path of liberation must be paid for by the Socialist countries....We must not talk any more of a mutually advantageous trade based on prices which the law of value...imposes on backward countries. What is the meaning of "mutual advantage" when [some countries] sell at world prices the raw materials that cost backward countries infinite sweat and suffering, while they buy at world market prices the machines produced in large, mechanized factories...? If we establish this sort of relations between the two groups of nations, we must agree that the Socialist countries are, to a certain extent, accomplices of imperial exploitation...and of the immoral nature of this exchange. The Socialist countries have a moral duty to cease their tacit complicity with the exploiting countries of the West."
moklin
Member
+2|6825|Hong Kong, China
I have been to Vietnam before. I think it just like China in the 1980s, which just opened up to the foreign
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6987

TeamZephyr wrote:

The irony about "modern" communism that was created by Lenin and Trotsky in the early 20th century was that it was actually capitalism.
I think you mean War Communism, which was supposedly a temporary measure.  Whether Lenin/Trotsky actually intended it to be we will never know.
Yaocelotl
:D
+221|7076|Keyboard

TeamZephyr wrote:

The irony about "modern" communism that was created by Lenin and Trotsky in the early 20th century was that it was actually capitalism.

Vietnam is not a communist nation, none of the nations in the world are currently "communist" nations as the means of production and organization of wealth are controlled by few individuals, those individuals being dictators.

A real socialistic nation is a pure democracy, where the means of production and the control of wealth is controlled by the working class as a whole, not controlled by a brutal dictator as we have seen in the Soviet Union, North Korea and in some cases Cuba.
QFT

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