Hard to argue with the Op
Sure... Well, it is hard to assess for obvious reasons, but I'd assume that immediately removing all illegal labor from America tomorrow would suddenly open millions of jobs -- but it would also mean that a lot of services would be left undone or unavailable until the jobs were filled again.Parker wrote:
turquoise, can i have your opinion on what the impact is on the economy due to illegals?
both now and if they were somehow taken out of the US.
i have conflicting views and was interested what other people thought of it.........
In principle, it would be nice to just eliminate the illegal labor issue, but we've become so dependent on illegal labor (especially in larger cities of border states) that it's just not practical.
This is why I think Bush's guest worker idea is the best one he's had so far. He gets a lot of flack for it, but it's more realistic of a plan than I think people give him credit for. He might suck at foreign policy, but immigration is something he seems to have a grasp of.
I just want our government to stop pretending they are not here.
You want to talk conflict? I've stated that there is no bigger issue, yet my company depends on these people and they are driving my vehicles with no licenses.
Call me what you want, I deal with this shit every day.
You want to talk conflict? I've stated that there is no bigger issue, yet my company depends on these people and they are driving my vehicles with no licenses.
Call me what you want, I deal with this shit every day.
Well, I take a slightly different approach. I think the issue is education. If we had a better educated workforce, then we'd have less low skill laborers.golgoj4 wrote:
i am that radical. It seems that this country has become a joke on many levels. It would be nice if the smart people took control and got us on the right track again. Dont get me wrong, nothing is ever perfect. But the so far sucessful plan to screw the middle class and create a poor and rich system is something I see as a greater threat to all of us. Everyone isnt a rocket scientist. They need menial jobs. If we just import the labor, what happens to those AMERICANS who find an ever shrinking margin in their daily lives because they have to be an exec to get by.SealXo wrote:
Oh and ps, in no way do i think they should have some armband or something stupid like that incase your thinking im some radical.
I know it sounds alarmist, but I see the shrinking benefits and the desire to screw the workers on levels not seen since the industrial revolution happened around of the turn of the 19th century.
call me crazy...
At some point in the future, we're going to have to admit that the "one size fits all" mentality of the current public education system does not work. Not everyone is an academic. Lucky for me, I was.
My brother is more of a hands-on kind of guy. He's a computer expert, but he hated school because it always focused on things of little practical importance to him. If we transformed the education system in America to one more closely resembling Germany's, we'd have a skilled workforce.
In Germany, they have a 2-track system. At around our equivalent of beginning high school, students take an exam that determines whether they are academic or technical. Academic kids go to schools that are more like ours. Technical kids go to vocational schools that teach them a trade. This way, academics can go on to study in college, while technical people enter the workforce with skills they can actually use.
This would work beautifully in America, and with this system, guest workers would only fill low-skill jobs that most Americans wouldn't want anyway (like now, for the most part).
Well yeah, I definitely agree that the military industrial complex and the contractors who are part of the reconstruction are making a "killing", so to speak. This is why I support immediate withdrawal. The sooner we leave Iraq, the better off we'll be....golgoj4 wrote:
I realize that. What I meant to say is they KNOW whats gonna happen. Thats my point. the whole effed up iraqi situation is an overall win for their pocketbook...unless you happen to be the contractor driving the truck when its ambushed...Turquoise wrote:
In a way, that's true, but I don't think Halliburton is destroying its own facilities. For the most part, extremists are prolonging the Iraq reconstruction by destroying the shit we build and by killing our security forces.golgoj4 wrote:
Its only expensive because people have an interest in prolonging it. If iraq gets fixed, a lotta people no longer get paid.
Companies are taking advantage of Iraq by overcharging the government. That's their technique of skimming the top, so to speak.
But the question is... why hire illegally? I'm assuming you have the power to decide who drives your trucks.ATG wrote:
I just want our government to stop pretending they are not here.
You want to talk conflict? I've stated that there is no bigger issue, yet my company depends on these people and they are driving my vehicles with no licenses.
Call me what you want, I deal with this shit every day.
There are two very clear and very cut ways to treat the illegal immigration of Mexicans that would solve the problem overnight, even if it will never happen... in my opinion that is.
1. A SET, MINIMUM term of 2-3 years in prison WITHOUT opportunity for parole for all those business owners who hire people that are not American citizens.
2. Remove all rights of illegal immigrants:
- No free health-care of any kind.
- No driver's license.
- Unable to attend any school without proof of citizenship.
- Subject to EVERY American law with harsher penalties for breaking them.
- Unable to do any kind of business with any bank.
Let's do everything we can to stop illegal immigration, but let's also make it as undesirable as possible. Sure, you can sneak over here and get a job somewhere if you really want to risk it. What pisses me off is that immigrants sneak into our country knowing full well that what they're doing is illegal, then demand that we cave in to what they want. How dare someone come here illegally and demand that our schools include separate classes for teachers who speak English so Mexicans won't have to learn it? How dare they come here and demand that real American citizens should pay for their health-care and rabbit-breeding-style? How dare they attempt to be excluded from our laws because they're not citizens (I can't help but laugh my ass off about that one). We are the ***ONLY*** country in the WORLD that allows this to happen. Try to sneak in to any other country in the World and start demanding that you be given rights and see what happens.
But alas, none of this would ever happen. A lot of business owners depend heavily on illegal immigrants because they are willing to work so hard for money. Attempt to pay anyone in America $20 an hour to shovel piles of shit all day in 100F weather. Good luck. Attempt to find some illegal immigrants and pay them $6 an hour to do the same thing and you'll have them lining up at your door. But the amount of time, resources, and general work it would take to cross-check every new employee to make sure they are legal would be insane. Not to mention that if this was implemented and took effect and business owners started firing all their immigrants then we would see a sharp decline in our economy. As much as we hate to admit, these immigrants really do perform the jobs that more than 50% of American's won't (I attribute laziness being the main factor), and we need these jobs to do done.
Oh well, I had more to say but had to take a piss and lost my train of thought. Overall, I think if we just started sending 30% of the immigrants that are caught to prison for a couple years, that word would quickly start to spread and the amount of immigrants would decrease quite drastically.
1. A SET, MINIMUM term of 2-3 years in prison WITHOUT opportunity for parole for all those business owners who hire people that are not American citizens.
2. Remove all rights of illegal immigrants:
- No free health-care of any kind.
- No driver's license.
- Unable to attend any school without proof of citizenship.
- Subject to EVERY American law with harsher penalties for breaking them.
- Unable to do any kind of business with any bank.
Let's do everything we can to stop illegal immigration, but let's also make it as undesirable as possible. Sure, you can sneak over here and get a job somewhere if you really want to risk it. What pisses me off is that immigrants sneak into our country knowing full well that what they're doing is illegal, then demand that we cave in to what they want. How dare someone come here illegally and demand that our schools include separate classes for teachers who speak English so Mexicans won't have to learn it? How dare they come here and demand that real American citizens should pay for their health-care and rabbit-breeding-style? How dare they attempt to be excluded from our laws because they're not citizens (I can't help but laugh my ass off about that one). We are the ***ONLY*** country in the WORLD that allows this to happen. Try to sneak in to any other country in the World and start demanding that you be given rights and see what happens.
But alas, none of this would ever happen. A lot of business owners depend heavily on illegal immigrants because they are willing to work so hard for money. Attempt to pay anyone in America $20 an hour to shovel piles of shit all day in 100F weather. Good luck. Attempt to find some illegal immigrants and pay them $6 an hour to do the same thing and you'll have them lining up at your door. But the amount of time, resources, and general work it would take to cross-check every new employee to make sure they are legal would be insane. Not to mention that if this was implemented and took effect and business owners started firing all their immigrants then we would see a sharp decline in our economy. As much as we hate to admit, these immigrants really do perform the jobs that more than 50% of American's won't (I attribute laziness being the main factor), and we need these jobs to do done.
Oh well, I had more to say but had to take a piss and lost my train of thought. Overall, I think if we just started sending 30% of the immigrants that are caught to prison for a couple years, that word would quickly start to spread and the amount of immigrants would decrease quite drastically.
Last edited by BeerzGod (2007-01-07 23:00:49)
Catch people in the US illegally, fingerprint them, 1 years hard labor building wall along border, let them know they face execution without trial if they are EVER found in the US under ANY circumstances again, and send them back to their country.
End of problem.
This is much more humane than what Mexico does, no one gets hurt, even drug trafficers will not want to risk it, they will have fun trying to get to Canada (2nd best place to illegally squat), and the hard labor will make a nice story they can tell their little ones.
End of problem.
This is much more humane than what Mexico does, no one gets hurt, even drug trafficers will not want to risk it, they will have fun trying to get to Canada (2nd best place to illegally squat), and the hard labor will make a nice story they can tell their little ones.
Surely you mean hire people that are not American citizens or have a Green Card?BeerzGod wrote:
There are two very clear and very cut ways to treat the illegal immigration of Mexicans that would solve the problem overnight, even if it will never happen... in my opinion that is.
1. A SET, MINIMUM term of 2-3 years in prison WITHOUT opportunity for parole for all those business owners who hire people that are not American citizens.
2. Remove all rights of illegal immigrants:
- No free health-care of any kind.
- No driver's license.
- Unable to attend any school without proof of citizenship.
- Subject to EVERY American law with harsher penalties for breaking them.
- Unable to do any kind of business with any bank.
Let's do everything we can to stop illegal immigration, but let's also make it as undesirable as possible. Sure, you can sneak over here and get a job somewhere if you really want to risk it. What pisses me off is that immigrants sneak into our country knowing full well that what they're doing is illegal, then demand that we cave in to what they want. How dare someone come here illegally and demand that our schools include separate classes for teachers who speak English so Mexicans won't have to learn it? How dare they come here and demand that real American citizens should pay for their health-care and rabbit-breeding-style? How dare they attempt to be excluded from our laws because they're not citizens (I can't help but laugh my ass off about that one). We are the ***ONLY*** country in the WORLD that allows this to happen. Try to sneak in to any other country in the World and start demanding that you be given rights and see what happens.
But alas, none of this would ever happen. A lot of business owners depend heavily on illegal immigrants because they are willing to work so hard for money. Attempt to pay anyone in America $20 an hour to shovel piles of shit all day in 100F weather. Good luck. Attempt to find some illegal immigrants and pay them $6 an hour to do the same thing and you'll have them lining up at your door. But the amount of time, resources, and general work it would take to cross-check every new employee to make sure they are legal would be insane. Not to mention that if this was implemented and took effect and business owners started firing all their immigrants then we would see a sharp decline in our economy. As much as we hate to admit, these immigrants really do perform the jobs that more than 50% of American's won't (I attribute laziness being the main factor), and we need these jobs to do done.
Oh well, I had more to say but had to take a piss and lost my train of thought. Overall, I think if we just started sending 30% of the immigrants that are caught to prison for a couple years, that word would quickly start to spread and the amount of immigrants would decrease quite drastically.