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Poll

Can you Command and Fly a Jet or Gunship or should you give up one?

Yes you can do both well10%10% - 18
No you can't spot Scans read map ETC.59%59% - 99
Sounds like a Legit' Reason to TK29%29% - 50
Total: 167
2006-01-01 07:28:15
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7076
Just some questions. 

How do you spot from a scan in the pilot seat?

No one has better EYES than the Commanders Scan.
So I guess you dont scan?
pretty important tool to leave idle

No answer

Wouldnt it be easier for you ( one guy ) to move to a new server that wants a Commander to fly a Jet.
Then ask 64 people to move? Allthough judging from the poll results that might be a task.

No Answer But we all know the answer. lol

If you had won it would give you more clout, Maybe if you had given it more attention you would have got those 19 points back.

Answer, It was someone elses fualt

Also The game is fun Everyone wants to play it . By flying and commanding you are Coping 2 of the Coolest things to do. We all learn to share.

Answer I dont care.
2006-01-01 08:10:42
mort4u
Artillery catcher
+5|7077|Munich, Germany

Ludic wrote:

Also, just because I don't command the way YOU think I should command, doesn't mean your way is right and my way is wrong. There are times when I'll sit still somewhere and keep my eyes glued to the commander screen. But that's only when I feel it's necessary. I'd rather be an active commander.
but then dont get angry when ppl call a mutiny against you and moan about you flaing around and doin a half decent commander job.
and its not really convincing when you say yourself that you dont do scans cause those guys on the ground have seys themselfes and you dont do arty "to not steal kills", seriously whats that all about cause the way you use the commander is not commaning but exactly the thing ppl dislike.
you are flying your jet/chopper and drop a supply crate once in a while and some UAV nearly on target but what you mainly do is trying to get the 2x bonus. but the way you are playin doesnt even sound like commanding.

and im also an active commander but the only vehicle im controlling while commanding is landbased since then i still can use my assets precisely (i can set an artillery so the main spawns of a flag are covered but my team still can cap that flag). im aso taking the gunner seat in choppers but i still can do scans and stuff while travling to the main fighting areas, same in the bombers.

i think only point you are missing is that you can of course do that on that certain clan server but honestly most ppl think its a waste of the commander position cause you are not using its full potential and you yourself gave the facts to prove that (no arty, no scans).

so iim still not convinved that you can do as good as a guy whos not flying.
its not about winning or if ppl like it but if its as effective as a full commander!!!

ps: DDwhatever you may wanna stay objective cause this is a discussion not a fight during your school break
2006-01-01 19:12:05
Skruples
Mod Incarnate
+234|6939
Ludic wrote

I don't scan from the pilot seat. In the situation I'm describing, I don't need to. When you're on voice chat with a clan of people all playing on one server on the same team, you have many pairs of eyes. All of which report back to you what's going on. I don't use artillery, mainly because the members would rather get the kills and points, and it prevents anyone from "accidentally" walking into the arty and getting TKed. If a UAV is requested, it's very easy to put down, as are supplies for anyone on voice chat asking for them. So I'm not asking 64 people to find a new server, and I don't need to find a new server. I've found my server.

And I'm also sure I would have gotten those 19 tickets back if those people complaining had had a neutral or positive kill to death ratio. Or really had spent their time doing anything but typing about their disdain to the server admins who were ignoring them because they had no problem with me.

And about sharing. I really don't care if flying and commanding are two of the coolest things to do. I play this game to have fun and relax. I'm not playing it to make sure everyone else has fun. So if I'm commanding from a plane and you don't like it, I really don't care. If I've stolen a tank, or some other vehicle from the other team and you think I should give it up just because I'm commander, too bad.

I've even had the other team abandon their blackhawk at my base in front of me on Mashtuur City. So I took it and kept it up in the air for the remainder of the round. Of course, the other teammates start bitching "why is the MEC commander flying the black hawk?", even though I was transporting troops, etc... if taking the single most devastating vehicle away from the enemy on a map isn't a tactically sound maneuver, then I don't know what is.

Also, just because I don't command the way YOU think I should command, doesn't mean your way is right and my way is wrong. There are times when I'll sit still somewhere and keep my eyes glued to the commander screen. But that's only when I feel it's necessary. I'd rather be an active commander.
I dont know where to begin.

The scanner is probably THE MOST useful tool you have as commander, and to say that you dont use it because the guys on the ground will spot people is ridiculous. the entire POINT of the scanner is to spot those guys that are missed by ground troops. Its YOUR job as commander to inform the troops, not the other way around. What do you do if your uav is destroyed? sit around with your thumb up your ass? the scanner is the best information tool the commander has, and youre a fool not to use it.

Youre right on one account: stealing enemy vehicles, like the blackhawk, is excellent strategy. BUT NOT WHEN YOURE THE BLOODY COMMANDER. When im commander and i find myself in a situation like that, i ask the team for a pilot and then give the BH to them. That way our team gets to keep the enemies asset and i dont have to waste my time flying it. And if you think me flying helicopters is normally a waste of time, take  a look at my record. The fact is I cant command effectively while flying, so i dont.

And about sharing. I really don't care if flying and commanding are two of the coolest things to do. I play this game to have fun and relax. I'm not playing it to make sure everyone else has fun. So if I'm commanding from a plane and you don't like it, I really don't care. If I've stolen a tank, or some other vehicle from the other team and you think I should give it up just because I'm commander, too bad.
This is a great attitude for the commander to have. The "im just here for fun and i dont care what anyone else thinks" has been the excuse of griefers, hackers and exploiters since the dawn of online gaming. This game is all about teamwork, not "I'll take whatever i want and to hell with the rest of you."

I don't use artillery, mainly because the members would rather get the kills and points, and it prevents anyone from "accidentally" walking into the arty and getting TKed.
Dont use the artillery eh? so basically you only use UAV when someone requests it, and supplies when someone requests it. They might as well replace you with a bot. In fact, i think i might prefer a bot commander over you. Seriously, if you dont think artillery is a useful asset, then read this guys post http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=542 about commanding. Myself, ive defended any number of control points by dropping high explosives on the unsuspecting guys capturing it, its a great tool.

And youre right on one last point. My way of commanding isnt necessarily the right way, but your way is definitely the wrong way.

so in conclusion, please tell us all the name of "your server," so the rest of us can avoid it like the plague.
2006-01-02 13:28:39
EsP-Grandpa
Member
+0|6941

polarbearz wrote:

exactly styker.

Basically when I command in a jet, I only pop open the commander screen for quick orders, supply requests, UAV and arty. I only scan when: I just shot down the oppoenent plane, I tilt my nose 20 degrees. Scan..

Once the entire scan finishes (3 secs or so) my plane's already in a wild, diving, corkscrew. Gah.
So, you have just done a scan, and the scan showed a lone enemy approaching or just starting to cap a flag that no one is near.  Your plane is out of control, so do you:

A) Regain control of the plane, at which point sending arty on the enemy capping the flag is a mote issue, because they ARE going to cap the flag now? (side note, the time that it takes a single enemy to cap a flag is exactly equal to the time it takes the arty to arrive after you have placed it).
B) Call an arty stike, hoping it can be done before the plane crashes, thus wasting a valuable asset of the team?

Or what about right after the scan, someone needs a supply box?  Do you die, or do you resupply?

Either way the TEAM suffers which is why you SHOULD NOT command and fly at the same time.

The ONLY time I will command and fight at the same time is when it will make a POSITIVE difference for the TEAM;  Defend a flag myself, babysit/repair the assets (even though when I repair them it STEALS points away from someone on the team, sometimes you have to).

All of the people you kill while you are flying, the team gets no points for.  When you fly and command you are taking points away from your team for every kill you make.
2006-01-02 17:02:24
Ludic
Member
+0|7006|New York

Skruples wrote:

And youre right on one last point. My way of commanding isnt necessarily the right way, but your way is definitely the wrong way.
No, it's not.

And everyone seems to have completely missed the part where I said I don't command from the plane all of the time. To be honest with you, I don't do it all that often. I do it when the plane is just sitting in the hangar and nobody else on the team has bothered with it. Usually people who manage to steal jets from the other team are competent pilots who don't ever let them go.

I never said that any of the commander assets weren't useful. I do think a lot of you give too much value to the scan, but that's my opinion. Before BF2, in most first person shooters you didn't get a "scan" to tell you where your enemies were. You had to figure it out yourself. If my scan is blown up, it doesn't really bother me, if I'm in a plane or not.

Artillery isn't always the greatest thing in the world either. I guarantee I can bomb more effectively in a plane than dropping artillery on a LONE target trying to take a base. It's also faster. Artillery has its place. But it's not the end all answer to get rid of enemies. Ask yourself, how many times have you dropped artillery in an effort to eliminate a threat, only to have them manage to avoid it somehow, and you're worse off than you were before you dropped it.

I'm not trying to change your mind about what I do when I choose to do it. But luckily for me, I outrank almost all of you, and if I want commander, I'll most likely get it. I also load maps faster than the vast majority of players.

People I play with daily like playing with me. Otherwise they wouldn't continue to do it everyday. My clan uses me as our match commander, and we win a lot more than we lose. Especially on days where we have to play our 6 against their 8, and we win convincingly.

If you want to avoid the servers I play on, good. Less closed-minded noobs for me to deal with. I don't have to justify myself to anyone about how I play BF2. The only time I have to is for clan matches, and I'm not about to start going into strategies we use there.

The funny thing, is that a lot of you have your own line where commanding is ok. Some allow them to take a humvee, some an APC, some a Tank, and so on and so forth. If a commander was supposed to sit still all of the time, the game would require the commander to sit somewhere (like a comm trailer) all of the time. But the game doesn't require that, and it even goes so far to give the commander a quick menu. Therefore, I won't give anyone a hard time for commanding from the plane or heli, or tank, or whatever.
2006-01-02 21:11:03
Skruples
Mod Incarnate
+234|6939
Ludic:

This thread isnt about what the commander CAN do, its about what effective commanders will do. And as i have said, I have never, in my 600 some odd hours of battlefield 2, seen a good commander in a jet. They might be a good commander out of the jet, when theyre actually paying attention to the battle, but the simple fact is you cant do both at once.

As for the scanner, i maintain its one of the best tools for the commander. A uav can show you where the enemies in a small area are, but a scan can show every enemy on the entire map, and you can pass this on to the troops instantly with spotting. myself, I love commanders who constantly spam out enemy positions, and i do it every chance i get.

Previous first person shooters didnt give you a scan to show you where the enemy was, but how does that matter at all? Battlefield 2 DOES give you this ability, so use it! most first person shooters in the past didnt give you a fancy jet to fly around in and bomb people, but that clearly hasnt stopped you from doing so. To not use every advantage given to you is irresponsible. Sun tzu would roll in his grave if he heard you saying the ability to see every enemy, everywhere, wasnt a good tool.

I never said bombs were less effective than artillery. I said artillery is useful, period. many times the enemy doesnt get hit by the shells, but who cares? I know that for every time i havent killed anyone with artillery, there was another time ive killed 4 or 5 people, its all about timing and placement. Besides which, if you're flying a jet and commanding you wont even know theyre taking the flag until its neutralized or you do a flyby, whereas with the scanner you can see them coming before theyre even close. Better yet, if youre in voice communication with the pilot of one of your aircraft, you can tell THEM the enemy is coming before theyre close, and they can go bomb them.

Myself, I draw the line on commanding and driving at tanks. You simply cannot pay attention to the scanner while flying an aircraft, whereas in a ground vehicle you can sit still and do whatever you need to be doing in the commander screen without plummeting to your death. There is the other issue that someone else could be using the vehicle full time, whereas you need to take time off and command, but when theres noone else to drive that doesnt matter so much. What is irresponsible, and quite frankly greedy, is to take a vehicle AND command when there are others that could be using the vehicle.

On a side not, I myself find that sometimes commanding and driving even when theres dozens of other people that could be using it is a good idea. These times are few and far between, and are pretty much limited to asset denial, as in, im going to sit in their main base's tank so they wont get to use it.

Finally, according to the poll, 8 out of 9 people dont want you flying around and commanding. And 1 in 3 would like to shoot you for it. Only the arrogant and the foolish disregard public opinion. But i guess in your mind those 8 people are all close minded noobs, and you are the shining light of reason.
2006-01-02 21:58:01
[chu^2]sysfailur
Member
+0|6939
TK them!
2006-01-03 01:37:33
Ludic
Member
+0|7006|New York

Skruples wrote:

Finally, according to the poll, 8 out of 9 people dont want you flying around and commanding. And 1 in 3 would like to shoot you for it. Only the arrogant and the foolish disregard public opinion. But i guess in your mind those 8 people are all close minded noobs, and you are the shining light of reason.
No, in my mind, those 8 people don't have the right to tell me how to play a game. There's a difference between disregarding public opinion in real life, and in a video game.


And actually, to edit a little: A poll posted here isn't necessarily going to be indicative of the BF2 community as a whole. It's a little bit of the squeeky wheel, if you know what I mean. The same goes for the upcoming patch, where a lot of the complaining people are going to get what they want, and there's a good chance in a lot of skilled players minds that it will ruin the game. I'm trying to be optimistic about it. But that's a whole other discussion for another thread.

Last edited by Ludic (2006-01-03 01:41:02)

2006-01-03 02:13:01
freebirdpat
Base Rapist
+5|6991
8 v 8 game? Its inevitable for a commander to be using some form of vehicle. Flying though shouldn't be done or using the only armor in the map (think Karkand, whereas a map like 64 kubra dam with 16 people, commander is going to be using armor or gunning in a chopper.)

Now a 32-64 player game, just sit down or ground pound. Support the team. A good commander is one that isn't dead or too busy at the moment to drop art, or supplies.
2006-01-03 04:35:41
mort4u
Artillery catcher
+5|7077|Munich, Germany
just funny how the supporters of flying commanders prove their selfishness and inability to participate in an objective discussion by their comments

what ever you say you just made it clear that flying commanders are no good (most of the time since we are not talking about 16 man servers or nearly empty bigger servers )
2006-01-03 08:51:31
||BFA||xZeler8
Expendable Miracle Worker
+1|7020
absolutely not...kill him for wasting a team asset (well, 2 actually)
2006-01-04 07:06:28
Sh1fty2k5
MacSwedish
+113|6949|Sweden
The best commander/leader leads from the front.. Thats a fact
2006-01-04 07:22:29
Cbass
Kick His Ass!
+371|6933|Howell, Mi USA
it's cool if u can fly and command but i think commanders should leave vehicles for their squads to use. i had a game where the comd. sat in the only tank the entire game and did nothing with it. when someone could of been using it to take a CP. i just think it's annoying to see your commander fly over in a helo/jet when im sitting there capturing a CP with no health and my supply request is going unanswered.
https://bf3s.com/sigs/bb53a522780eff5b30ba3252d44932cc2f5b8c4f.png
2006-01-04 10:02:09
Horseman 77
Banned
+160|7076

Sh1fty2k5 wrote:

The best commander/leader leads from the front.. Thats a fact
Not applicable in this case at all. The entire game is the front.

Do you really believe that who ever said this wanted to be a genral manning a Rifle and not looking at a map with six radios in front of him ( at the Front )
2006-01-04 14:34:00
Dirrty_Bird
Dirtier than thou
+5|6979|Vermont
Yeah.  What Horseman said.  The guys who lead from the front are the squad leaders (in theory).  The only thing a commander on the front will do is look at his command screen and get himself shot (bad, a dead commander is no good to anyone) or never look at his command screen and just fight (bad, he's not really commanding)
2006-01-19 08:15:31
memphisjz
Member
+1|6925|Belgium
OF course you can, a commadner can do wathever he wants by my opinion,
because i think that squad leader always should ask for uav an artilllery so that al you have to do is accept the request, but when i'm commander and i take a tank and someone ask to have the tank i get  out  because its more usefull for him.
So whatever you guys think, a commadner may play and definitley when his team sucks and he has to capture flags himself ( what i always need to do)
2006-01-19 09:03:14
Gawwad
My way or Haddaway!
+212|6923|Espoo, Finland

^DD^GRiPS wrote:

SHUT THE HELL UP WITH YOUR almost 6hrs as a commander.
Only that few hours as a commander and yet he seems to have a much better clue at the whole commanding thing than you and polarbearz...

If he has played for a long time (doens't matter if he's a commander or not) he knows what a good commander does.
How you might ask? By playing and getting different expiriences with different commanders and that way learning which are the good commanders and which are those that don't help the team.

As a final note SHUT THE HELL UP WITH YOUR almost 12 years of life
2006-01-19 15:41:12
alf.ha
Member
+5|6979|Berlin/Germany
It's ok when a tank is not used and you take it (otherwise it's possible that the enemy gets it), but don't blockade 2 important positions in the team when there are others that wanna have this position, too. It's selfish and unsocial to think that you are the king of battlefield 2 that can use a plane... at the same time as being commander, doing a good job. You do a good job when u play with and help your team, but some people are actually too stupid to know that blockading 2 high positions in a team is no teamplay. You are not the only players out there on the battlefields, remember that. And I have never seen somebody commanding well in a plane, no I only saw selfish idiots that thought they are the heros that can do everything but didn't realize that they actually suck. That's my opinion on flying/tank using commanders. (Other reasons, more objective, I have posted here some time ago)
2006-01-27 15:35:26
^DD^GRiPS
American Hillbilly
+12|7038|Long Beach, CA

Gawwad wrote:

^DD^GRiPS wrote:

SHUT THE HELL UP WITH YOUR almost 6hrs as a commander.
Only that few hours as a commander and yet he seems to have a much better clue at the whole commanding thing than you and polarbearz...

If he has played for a long time (doens't matter if he's a commander or not) he knows what a good commander does.
How you might ask? By playing and getting different expiriences with different commanders and that way learning which are the good commanders and which are those that don't help the team.

As a final note SHUT THE HELL UP WITH YOUR almost 12 years of life
at least be original.  nice nutriding by the way.
Ptfo
2006-01-27 18:14:39
Silverwolf
Member
+0|6921
A commander cannot do a decent job of commanding whilst dogfighting/taking out armour & inf, it simple is not possible to concentrate completely on something wen u multitask, it just doesn't happen, I don't care how good u think u are.

For all u commanders whinging about wanting to be in the action, not camping out somewhere, great, get into the action, but AS INFANTRY, not taking one of ur teams valuable assests n not using it to it's full potential because u can't concentrate on it completely. For those of you who decide to be smart n check how many hrs commanding I've done, yeh, there's not alot, but that is because I prefer to be in the action, in the face of the ememy with an APC or helo, or sticking the barrel of my FN-SCAR barrel down their throats, and so I don't command, I lead a squad a fair bit, but I don't command much. Why? Because I know it's not possible for me to do both things at once while doing them to my full potential.

The only time I take the commander seat, is when idiots like u jet loving commanders spend the whole round b4 flying around, n laying arty into ur own squads, and dropping supply drops out in the middle of the ocean, so I use the rank, n take over.

The usual signs of this sought of commanding? An almost complete lack of asset support for the boys on the ground.

I play as a strike unit, usually squading with a few regulars i tend to play with, n we have worked together a lot, so we play well together, and we tend to make strikes behind enemy lines, taking the enemy from behind, and crushing them against the frontal attacks been made from the rest of the team. We're the boys grabbing the Blackhawk on wake, and flying it low and fast around the back of the island, taking the airfield before the PLA knows wots happening, and then holding it till the rest of our team gets there.

But this doesn't work so well when our commander is flying an F35 around the place, busy racking up kills, hoping for the team win to double his score. Why? Because those calls for a UAV over those incoming enemy squads goes unanswered, as does the calls for artillery on the tank rolling in the north entrance.

Just because u can throw down a few UAVs here n there, or an arty strike on a flag thats just gone blank, doesn't make u good at commanding while in the air, n just cos ur team wins, don't ever believe it had anything to do with ur multitasking ability, it was won by the hard work of the boys on the ground, n those flyboys who aren't busy trying to keep an eye on radar scans.

U wanna command? Great, saves me the trouble, but do it properly. I don't mind u sitting on the ground in the front lines with me, I'll make sure me n my boys keep ur ass covered while u place ur artillery, or scan for my enemy counterpart, trying to get that bac flag so he can deny us the armour it provides, but stay ur ass outta the jets n attack helos, leave those to the guys who can concentrate on taking out those pesky bombers, or the armour keeping me pinned down, or i'll do what I can to make sure u neva again command in a round i'm playing.

 

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