BF2S Forums A soldiers refusal to go to war

Stingray24 wrote:

ryan_14 wrote:

What, you get sent to jail if you have your own feelings about the war? That's BS right there.

When one joins the military, you agree to shut up and follow orders, feeling are not involved. If one feels the need to express their own feeling about the war, they should become a full time war protestor, not a member of the armed forces.

Or vote.

Havok wrote:

47man wrote:

kessel! wrote:

the war IS criminal. This man is a hero

I'm curious of your "ideas" as to why this war is criminal. I don't mean that liberal bullshit that everybody and their sister can spout at the drop of a coin. I want an actual reason. Not "George Bush said there's oil", etc. We removed a dictatorship and are attempting to restore order, anti-insurgency wars can take well over 15 years to accomplish. It is people like you that caused us to lose Korea and are going to cause us to lose this.

We lost Korea because our military was underfunded after WWII.  We bit off more than we could chew, plain and simple.

We didnt lose in Korea, it was a cease fire, you can not go to war half assed like we did in Korea and Vietnam. Its like trying to go to war and deciding, everyone was afraid of a huge mainland war in China that the USSR might get involved in. In essence if we had went full out, we could of taken out China, Russia, and everyone else who attacked us. Thats not politically acceptable. If we had invaded North Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos and destroy the NVA forces there it would have shortened the war buy years and saved many American and other innocent lives, though if we had it would have maybe caused a war against China or Soviet Russia which again was not acceptable because the loss in life would be to great.

First I'd like to say I'm retired military and you won't find many exmilitary who would say this but,

The US government has betrayed our soldiers.  Iraq is a political war that is owned and operated by representatives willing to run the war in a fashion that will get them the most political gain.  Our soldier are being investigated and imprisoned for performing their duties.  The US government would rather see our own troops die than allow them to fight the war in a manner that offered them some degree of protection.  There is no sense of honor or morals in US politicians anymore.  They are willing to Kill off Americans and sell out our best interests for pennys on the dollar.

Fuck our government and their war.  Carpet bomb the Middle East and bring our troops home.  Why be loyal to the likes of Nancy Pelosi and Ted Kennedy.  As I recall they went to Bagdad to be with Saddam before the war.  phhhht, fucking policing the world oil supply with an Al Jezzerah camera crew following you around hoping to video tape your death or catch you "violating" the Geneva Convention so your country will throw you in jail to help during the elections.

Political war just like Vietnam, I fault no one for not wanting to die while being betrayed by his government.

Until I see some US sentors,congressmen, or president charged with TREASON, this is the way I feel about this war.

Major_Spittle wrote:

First I'd like to say I'm retired military and you won't find many exmilitary who would say this but,

The US government has betrayed our soldiers.  Iraq is a political war that is owned and operated by representatives willing to run the war in a fashion that will get them the most political gain.  Our soldier are being investigated and imprisoned for performing their duties.  The US government would rather see our own troops die than allow them to fight the war in a manner that offered them some degree of protection.  There is no sense of honor or morals in US politicians anymore.  They are willing to Kill off Americans and sell out our best interests for pennys on the dollar.

Fuck our government and their war.  Carpet bomb the Middle East and bring our troops home.  Why be loyal to the likes of Nancy Pelosi and Ted Kennedy.  As I recall they went to Bagdad to be with Saddam before the war.  phhhht, fucking policing the world oil supply with an Al Jezzerah camera crew following you around hoping to video tape your death or catch you "violating" the Geneva Convention so your country will throw you in jail to help during the elections.

Political war just like Vietnam, I fault no one for not wanting to die while being betrayed by his government.

Until I see some US sentors,congressmen, or president charged with TREASON, this is the way I feel about this war.

Hello. Welcome to 2004.

CameronPoe wrote:

Woah! Mindfuck! What happened to Spittle?

He's waxing truthfully, thats all.

First off, I am not familiar enough with the case, the relevant international law and the oathe the soldiers in the US take, so I have no opinion on the actions of Lieutenant Watada(whether they are right or wrong, legal or illegal). However:

wah1188 wrote:

If he was drafted in he would have a point, you signed up for it fight it! Can't he just be deployed in Afthingystan? Is it true that there are always 75000 us troops in Japan maybe he should just go there and quit moaning like a little girl. It annoys me that he still wants to be funded through education yet refuses to fight in a war.

Well, I don't know if this is true(seeing anyone can write anything on wiki), but if it is, that's exactly what he tried to do:

The Army refused his resignation. Watada has said he is not a conscientious objector because he is not opposed to war as a principle, only the war in Iraq, and so offered to serve in Afghanistan,[7] which he regarded as "an unambiguous war linked to the Sept. 11 attacks." This was also refused. Watada, in turn, refused an offer for a desk job in Iraq without direct combat involvement.

If he just wanted to avoid being on the frontlines, he would have taken the desk job I think. So either he's got a good strategy, or he really did this because of his beliefs. If the above is true, I am inclined to believe the latter.

Stingray24 wrote:

ryan_14 wrote:

What, you get sent to jail if you have your own feelings about the war? That's BS right there.

When one joins the military, you agree to shut up and follow orders, feeling are not involved. If one feels the need to express their own feeling about the war, they should become a full time war protestor, not a member of the armed forces.

Indeed? Let me pose a hypothetical question to you:

Your country is involved in a war. You are winning and a number of enemy troops surrenders to your unit. They are disarmed and handcuffed when a superior officer comes, and orders you to shoot them. Do you obey the order?

Keep in mind that I'm not comparing the two, but the people that say that if you join the army you must stop thinking for yourself and obey ALL(emphasis on ALL) orders blindly, even the ones in the example above are starting to piss me off. Because if you do shoot the prisoners from the above example, what does that make you? Nuremberg trials and the Geneva convention they influenced might provide the answer I believe.

Kmarion wrote:

http://i3.tinypic.com/432tid5.jpg

First Lieutenant Ehren Watada still refuses Iraq deployment orders, calling the war illegal.
A six-year prison term could result. Preliminary hearings are set for Thursday.

http://hotzone.yahoo.com/b/hotzone/blogs19056

i think he should get demoted, sent back here, wear pink collared shirts and live life knowing he is a pussy.

if you are a soldier and you are not gonna fight for your country..... then fucking wow. youre not a solder.

Mason4Assassin444 wrote:

Des.Kmal wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

http://i3.tinypic.com/432tid5.jpg

First Lieutenant Ehren Watada still refuses Iraq deployment orders, calling the war illegal.
A six-year prison term could result. Preliminary hearings are set for Thursday.

http://hotzone.yahoo.com/b/hotzone/blogs19056

i think he should get demoted, sent back here, wear pink collared shirts and live life knowing he is a pussy.

if you are a soldier and you are not gonna fight for your country..... then fucking wow. youre not a solder.

But he stated he would deploy to Afghanistan. SO he isn't scared to fight. He just doesn't want to fight in Iraq.

From what I read about him he was an excellent soldier with no disciplinary actions on his record. But hey, I don't know shit really.

dw, i didnt read it. lol

i was just ranting. lmao. my bad.

i really dont get his motives though... kinda weird.

Last edited by Des.Kmal (2007-01-04 15:21:53)

Fujin wrote:

Regardless of whether or not you believe a war is right or wrong, when you sign up (volunteer) to join a military organization, you sign a contract to provide a service to your country...end of story.  Although treason or being labeled a traitor may be a little harsh in this case, it's a no brainer that he should, at the very least, forfeit any benefit he may have received or has coming to him for being in the military.  He should immediately be generally discharged and responsible for paying back everything that was given to him as a benefit and pay back the thousands spent on him for his training.  Just my humble opinion.

True. But he knows he faces the brig, angry Americans, and the conservatives by refusing to deploy. And if he is willing to face all of that instead of serving which he expressed interest in doing in Afghanistan, I'll listen to his 2 cents. He's the one facing 6 years for insubordination.

I'd just hate to see him blindly put into the Sheehan crazy liberal crowd because he speaks against the war. Which half the world and half of America are doing by the way.

hate&discontent wrote:

He's an army PUSSY!  he signed the line his ass better do the time, I DID MINE, and i wasn't an officer,  U.S. MARINE CORPS INFANTRY ENLISTED!!!  why would anybody stick up for this fuck!?!?!  they need to court martial his ass for being a deserter, punishable by death during a time of war.  think about all the other MARINES, SOLDIERS, SAILORS, and AIRMEN that gave their life for their COUNTRY, and this little spoiled FUCK thinks  that he dosen't have to go to war because he dosen't think that it is right, war is hardly ever right, just suck it the fuck up and do it.      SEMPER FI.

Ya, I totally agree man. Ive served 5 tours in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2002. If he wants his college money than he should fucking earn it by going to the Shitbox aka the desert. He volunteered and therefore he swore to obey all orders given by his superiors. You think I wanted to go to Iraq and Afghanistan all those times away from my wife and friends for months at a time? HELL NO, but I swore to obey all orders and fight for my country and if need be die for it. He needs to learn that your country is way more important than any single person.

If he goes to jail over this, the military and the government are brining a MAJOR shit storm over there head.

Martyn

Does he think he's the first person to have that idea? There have been people before who had the same feelings but went anyway. He's nothing special, do the duty that you agreed to when you signed up.

jonnykill wrote:

Fucking troop signed a contract to protect the country.

How was invading Iraq protecting the USA? They didn't have the weapons the government spoke of.

This is an occupation now.