Your thoughts about using electronic 'warfare' against assholes

2007-01-03 10:37:00

#1

ghettoperson: Member; +1,943|6659

First of all, not sure I can use assholes in the title, but anyway.

halturnershow.blogspot.com

Recently, the site and sites belonging to Hal Turner, who apparently is a well known host of a white supremacist talk show got DDoS attacked. I would imagine the Americans have heard of him, but I don't really know. Basically, he annoyed some people when he threatened them after they prank called his show, and they decided to retaliate, with DDoS attacks on his site. His first site is down completely, and they have now taken to doing so to another site he's put up, driving his bandwidth costs up hugely, and essentially the whole idea of it is to put him out of business though these huge costs.
Now I don't think many people can deny, the man is an asshole. I originally found the idea amusing, but upsetting after all, what if the same happened to you? However, after reading about it more, it seems more and more like he deserves what he's got coming to him. He argues that he can say what he want, but do you think that he can threaten people who prank call him, in the name of free speech? I guess this debate is a little confused as it has a few questions, but first of all, is it wrong/immoral to do something like this to someone like that? It certainly is illegal. Should people be allowed to have talkshows where they discuss killing people of ethnic minorities?

I don't know, you lot talk about it, as I've confused myself. Read a couple of articles on his site, so you get a vague idea of the whole thing. I'll post a few more links to it all in a bit, so you get a more rounded idea of the story.

EDIT:
Hal claims to have 'got one' of the guys who did it. Proved wrong after some Googling by a number of people
Picture is too big to post in here

Wikipedia Article on him Closed after much vandalism I believe.

Last edited by ghettoperson (2007-01-03 10:44:09)

2007-01-03 10:40:54

#2

lavadisk: I am a cat ¦ 3; +369|6839|Denver colorado

Although I don't think what they did was right it is the most innocent reason Ive heard of.

I think that talking racist/hate propaganda should be illegal and he SHOULD have been dealt with by a law of some sort, but, y'know? he got it. Thats all that matters.

2007-01-03 10:42:18

#3

jamie_v1.1: Member; +35|6512|Leeds, UK

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is a DDoS attack, and how does it drive up his bandwidth costs exactly??. I assume the DDoS attack is some sort of hacking to his website, but thats all i know!

2007-01-03 10:43:26

#4

iNeedUrFace4Soup: fuck it; +348|6555

Who? He deserves to be gang raped.

2007-01-03 10:45:06

#5

lavadisk: I am a cat ¦ 3; +369|6839|Denver colorado

jamie_v1.1 wrote:
Please excuse my ignorance, but what is a DDoS attack, and how does it drive up his bandwidth costs exactly??. I assume the DDoS attack is some sort of hacking to his website, but thats all i know!

Ok, found the definition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial-of-service_attack

Last edited by lavadisk (2007-01-03 10:46:29)

2007-01-03 10:58:01

#6

mikeyb118: Evil Overlord; +76|6608|S.C.

I have loads experience with DoS attacks. Firstly as the victim my brother likes to decimate the band with of my connection when i play BF2 and 2142 thus resulting in me getting kicked. Look at my stats, i promise those kicks are not because i am an ass. Anyway i kick him when i get kicked so he stopped after a while he now lives in fear. Qos would be nice (can anybody recommend a router with Qos?). Secondly Hal should be allowed to speak and attacking his site does nothing but give him more media attention to voice his unpopular use of free speech.

2007-01-03 11:03:55

#7

Stingray24: Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy; +1,060|6455|The Land of Scott Walker

lavadisk wrote:
Although I don't think what they did was right it is the most innocent reason Ive heard of.

I think that talking racist/hate propaganda should be illegal and he SHOULD have been dealt with by a law of some sort, but, y'know? he got it. Thats all that matters.

It would be nice if racist/hate propaganda was illegal, but it's speech and can't be banned. We don't want to decide who can say what through the law or our views may end up being banned someday. Boycotting anything that gives him money would be effective. When he crosses the line to threatening people, that's possibly where the law could nail him.

2007-01-03 11:27:47

#8

ghettoperson: Member; +1,943|6659

Rather unfriendly audio clip - Probably NSFW due to language, headphones might be good It's not that bad, but I'd hate to get any of you guys in trouble.

And more threats from him:

The ONLY thing any of you are accomplishing is raising the level of brutality I intend to use when I take revenge.

Here is how I will mete out justice according to the action committed:

1) Some of you are going to get the shit beaten out of you.

2) Others are going to be beaten to death, and finally;

3) Others are going to have firebombs thrown through the windows of their houses WHILE THEY ARE HOME and when they - and their families come out, their throats will be cut.

This is the price I will exact for :

1) Harassing my wife (who has nothing to do with my radio show)
2) Recording the harassment of my wife and putting it on the net and
3) Harassing my senior citizen mother.

I am so motivated to to physical violence to these people that I don't even care to state my intentions publicly. Neither cops, nor Prosecutors, nor Judges will be able to stop me.
..

Using the legal system to get their identities is one thing, payback is quite another.

I don't have to win in court, I only need to win out of court.

Street justice. Get it?

..

I meant every word and I absolutely will carry out every word. Nothing on earth can prevent it.

You dare say I put myself in this position? Fuck you. You guys called MY show. You guys Crank Called and threatened MY wife. You guys crank called and threatened my mother.

I didn't start this, but I will God Damned well finish it.

Laugh all you like. We'll see how hard you laugh when my hand is crushing your windpipe and you're drowning on your own blood.

Not a nice guy.

2007-01-03 11:33:31

#9

Elamdri: The New Johnnie Cochran; +134|6656|Peoria

I respect this guy's right to say that he doesn't like black people, but he doesn't have the right to incite violence against them.

2007-01-03 11:34:24

#10

ghettoperson: Member; +1,943|6659

Are you allowed to incite racist violence? I know you can't in the UK, what about the US?

2007-01-03 11:45:19

#11

King_County_Downy: shitfaced; +2,791|6607|Seattle

I'm pretty sure we have laws about hate crimes which would include threatning violence. I know we're not supposed to talk about killing the president. It's more like "Freedom of Speech, Just Watch What you Say". ^Ice-T

Last edited by King_County_Downy (2007-01-03 11:45:42)

Sober enough to know what I'm doing, drunk enough to really enjoy doing it

2007-01-03 13:28:47

#12

[RDH]Warlord: Quakecon Attendee; +17|6668|SLC, Utah, USA

People can say whatever they want, except for saying they will do something that by itself is illegal. He CANNOT persue justice of an illegal act with another illegal act, especially with an EVEN WORSE act (physical contact). And he cannot claim innocense here. He may not personally do it, but he is admitting that he ordered friends of his to do the illegal act, which makes him just as responsible. I'm surprised he wasn't immediately arrested after he confessed, with NO trace of "I was just joking...", of attempting to persue illegal acts of violence against people.

On the same page though, even if the guy's an a**-hole, doing something illegal to "teach him a lesson" is not something I condone. He will attract the people that like that kind of stuff no matter what we do, and only serve to put the mindless masses into his pocket by the "illegal" acts done agaisnt him. People won't necessarily believe or dis-believe his words, but by making him the victim, people side with him.

And that picture, I highly doubt that it's a victim of his. Seems too convenient that the "victim" was beaten, and STOOD there SMILING to let the attacker take a picture.

2007-01-03 13:34:17

#13

l41e: Member; +677|6658

[RDH]Warlord wrote:
And that picture, I highly doubt that it's a victim of his. Seems too convenient that the "victim" was beaten, and STOOD there SMILING to let the attacker take a picture.

That was from some wrestling thing. Mr. Racist apparently Google Imaged it and used it to "prove" his e-thugness.

2007-01-03 13:34:29

#14

Scorpion0x17: can detect anyone's visible post count...; +691|6775|Cambridge (UK)

I may not like what he says, but I would defend, to the death, his right to say it.

2007-01-03 13:40:25

#15

ghettoperson: Member; +1,943|6659

[RDH]Warlord wrote:
People can say whatever they want, except for saying they will do something that by itself is illegal. He CANNOT persue justice of an illegal act with another illegal act, especially with an EVEN WORSE act (physical contact). And he cannot claim innocense here. He may not personally do it, but he is admitting that he ordered friends of his to do the illegal act, which makes him just as responsible. I'm surprised he wasn't immediately arrested after he confessed, with NO trace of "I was just joking...", of attempting to persue illegal acts of violence against people.

On the same page though, even if the guy's an a**-hole, doing something illegal to "teach him a lesson" is not something I condone. He will attract the people that like that kind of stuff no matter what we do, and only serve to put the mindless masses into his pocket by the "illegal" acts done agaisnt him. People won't necessarily believe or dis-believe his words, but by making him the victim, people side with him.

And that picture, I highly doubt that it's a victim of his. Seems too convenient that the "victim" was beaten, and STOOD there SMILING to let the attacker take a picture.

Image to the left is his site, image to the right is a random wrestling site.

2007-01-03 13:48:07

#16

[RDH]Warlord: Quakecon Attendee; +17|6668|SLC, Utah, USA

Aha. Looked at the link ghettoperson posted and assumed that whole page was the official one by Hal. My bad, didn't notice it was a page discrediting Hal's picture.

2007-01-03 14:35:36

#17

Dr_Paulos236: Member; +41|6405|England

Seems like an utter piece of shit. That's also very lame to just randomly take a picture of of 'page 2 of a google search' and claim you'd organised. What a douchebag.....

2007-01-03 16:28:41

#18

Commie Killer: Member; +192|6396

In my opinion the guy is a moron, he doesnt find any facts to base his ideas upon at all.

2007-01-03 16:40:41

#19

Big McLargehuge: Another Saturday night and I ain't got nobody; +259|6613|Philadelphia, PA

Hal Turner loves minorities

2007-01-03 16:51:23

#20

47man: Member; +46|6433|Cali

This first part is purely in regard to the issue of the denial of free speech. We do NOT have complete free speech and never will. It is illegal to yell "fire" in populated buildings. It is illegal to make threats, idle or otherwise, against public officials and in most cases civilians. It is also illegal to speak with sexual references to anyone if they ask you to stop. True, we have more freedoms than other countries, way too many if you ask me. But, it is not a true freedom of speech.
Cases such as this, I believe, help my point of view, that people can not handle freedom. It invariably leads to chaos. I have no idea how a DOS attack works, but if it true that it costs him money, then their tactics are horrific. If he does not actually hurt anyone, leave him be. If he does harm someone, emotionally or physically, then file a suit and allow our judicial system to take care of him. Hate crimes are very serious issues in this day and age, and most states and judges have no leniency toward his type.

2007-01-03 17:02:12

#21

DivineMomentofTruth: Member; +88|6451

I'm pretty sure what he wrote could be enough to convict him of conspiracy to commit murder or assault or something of that nature.

2007-01-03 18:00:48

#22

TeamZephyr: Maintaining My Rage Since 1975; +124|6539|Hillside, Melbourne, Australia

That bloke is a complete and utter fuckwit.

BF2S Forums Your thoughts about using electronic 'warfare' against assholes

jamie_v1.1 wrote:

lavadisk wrote:

[RDH]Warlord wrote:

[RDH]Warlord wrote:

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