how do you know the drivers are mormon?smtt686 wrote:
My thinly veiled answers, from someone who lives in Utah but is not mormon
1. mormons are rude. No if's ands or buts about it. They do NOT say thank you for anything except at church
2. They drive rude (thats why you don't use your blinker until the last minute). good luck if you ever pull out of a parking lot and need to get over 2 lanes. No one can ever get in front of you since I-15 is a race track, not a highway!
3. If your not mormon, you don't matter (except the week after general conference when they church president reminds you this is the way it should be)
they have a glow about them... that and about 75% of the state is mormon.sfarrar33 wrote:
how do you know the drivers are mormon?smtt686 wrote:
My thinly veiled answers, from someone who lives in Utah but is not mormon
1. mormons are rude. No if's ands or buts about it. They do NOT say thank you for anything except at church
2. They drive rude (thats why you don't use your blinker until the last minute). good luck if you ever pull out of a parking lot and need to get over 2 lanes. No one can ever get in front of you since I-15 is a race track, not a highway!
3. If your not mormon, you don't matter (except the week after general conference when they church president reminds you this is the way it should be)
thats how i relate religion in utah to drivers. majority rules.
I must admit, its not all bad here, but the religous intolerance sometimes is incredible. If you don't think you like bush, you would hate the likes of cannon, hatch and others.
If you have a medical emergency or anything else such as death, birth, injury etc, the first ones to help without offering are mormons. When my infant daughter died a few years ago, the mormon neighbors were the first ones to bring food and friendship and for that my family and I were extremely grateful.
If you have a medical emergency or anything else such as death, birth, injury etc, the first ones to help without offering are mormons. When my infant daughter died a few years ago, the mormon neighbors were the first ones to bring food and friendship and for that my family and I were extremely grateful.
ah so you stereotype (don't worry thats not an insult)smtt686 wrote:
they have a glow about them... that and about 75% of the state is mormon.sfarrar33 wrote:
how do you know the drivers are mormon?smtt686 wrote:
My thinly veiled answers, from someone who lives in Utah but is not mormon
1. mormons are rude. No if's ands or buts about it. They do NOT say thank you for anything except at church
2. They drive rude (thats why you don't use your blinker until the last minute). good luck if you ever pull out of a parking lot and need to get over 2 lanes. No one can ever get in front of you since I-15 is a race track, not a highway!
3. If your not mormon, you don't matter (except the week after general conference when they church president reminds you this is the way it should be)
thats how i relate religion in utah to drivers. majority rules.
though i don't think its because they are mormon its just that most people drive like idiots wherever you are
I suggest you watch the South Park episode "All About Mormons" from 2003. That outlines it pretty well.
Although, personally I don't have much against Mormons as a whole, I do not like your more crazy members, and let's face it, theres a good deal of 'em. Besides, Scientology is deserving of so much more scrutiny these days. Scientology is like Mormonism on crack.
Although, personally I don't have much against Mormons as a whole, I do not like your more crazy members, and let's face it, theres a good deal of 'em. Besides, Scientology is deserving of so much more scrutiny these days. Scientology is like Mormonism on crack.
It all comes back to when Joseph Smith back in the ol' western days suddenly said that an Angel told him to dig up some plates. He told a couple of people and they all laughed, the main problem was the way he went about setting up the Mormon religion (The Church of the Latter Day Saints?) I mean that is one ponsy name and a half! Smith was too upfront about telling that his was the only religion and he was picked by God. Also times had changed and more people thought for themselves a lot more compared to the time of Jesus.
Jesus didn't go around publishing Christian newspapers and running for president, Unlike Mr Smithy. Also he would freely talk about his religion unlike Smith who wouldn;t show anybody where he was getting the "Mormon message" from! Gold plates??? No-one even his family saw those plates, no one has touched then, no one can find them! And when people were after him he buried then but "forgot" where he put them?
It all seems a bit wooly to me. It may have well have begun for good reasons and still has good morals but I think the ego of Mr Smithy got in the way and let his own personal opinions become Mormon teachings (Such as polygamy, apparantly he couldn;t pick between two women so chose both!) Parts of their beliefs are a bit to much like the "Manifest Destiny" that was popular at the time which meant that they belived God created America for christians from Europe (Not Eastern Europe and Asia, hence whay Mexiacans and other people were hated). This "Destiny" was also said to show that White Chiristians and WASPs (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants) that Americas was THEIRS and whoever was on it at the time was fair game to slaughter (Native Americans).
It's not really beliefs of the Mormons but their past history of how they were started that's weird for me.
Jesus didn't go around publishing Christian newspapers and running for president, Unlike Mr Smithy. Also he would freely talk about his religion unlike Smith who wouldn;t show anybody where he was getting the "Mormon message" from! Gold plates??? No-one even his family saw those plates, no one has touched then, no one can find them! And when people were after him he buried then but "forgot" where he put them?
It all seems a bit wooly to me. It may have well have begun for good reasons and still has good morals but I think the ego of Mr Smithy got in the way and let his own personal opinions become Mormon teachings (Such as polygamy, apparantly he couldn;t pick between two women so chose both!) Parts of their beliefs are a bit to much like the "Manifest Destiny" that was popular at the time which meant that they belived God created America for christians from Europe (Not Eastern Europe and Asia, hence whay Mexiacans and other people were hated). This "Destiny" was also said to show that White Chiristians and WASPs (White Anglo-Saxon Protestants) that Americas was THEIRS and whoever was on it at the time was fair game to slaughter (Native Americans).
It's not really beliefs of the Mormons but their past history of how they were started that's weird for me.
Hmm, maybe I'm one of the few exceptions. I do notice when people don't signal when changing lanes. pisses me off.smtt686 wrote:
My thinly veiled answers, from someone who lives in Utah but is not mormon
1. mormons are rude. No if's ands or buts about it. They do NOT say thank you for anything except at church
2. They drive rude (thats why you don't use your blinker until the last minute). good luck if you ever pull out of a parking lot and need to get over 2 lanes. No one can ever get in front of you since I-15 is a race track, not a highway!
3. If your not mormon, you don't matter (except the week after general conference when they church president reminds you this is the way it should be)
And yeah, I don't want anyone being led by his religion in any position of power in our country, even if he's my own religion. Even if I stand for everything he does. It's because of that whole separation of church and state thing. Doing anything when you wouldn't have otherwise because some diety told you to is NOT what I want for a leader. I trusted all people, even Romney to do this, but Bush has failed (as probably one of the only Democratic Mormon Utahns).
As for our history, well, I could start by explaining all that happened, but this isn't a religious debate. I'm just curious as to why there's a lot of anti-Mormonism, and I realize that what you said is exactly what I was asking for. So people are actually educated enough about our religion to draw conclusions based on it? Wow. (no sarcasm there.)
I must admit, its not all bad here, but the religous intolerance sometimes is incredible. If you don't think you like bush, you would hate the likes of cannon, hatch and others.
If you have a medical emergency or anything else such as death, birth, injury etc, the first ones to help without offering are mormons. When my infant daughter died a few years ago, the mormon neighbors were the first ones to bring food and friendship and for that my family and I were extremely grateful.
If you have a medical emergency or anything else such as death, birth, injury etc, the first ones to help without offering are mormons. When my infant daughter died a few years ago, the mormon neighbors were the first ones to bring food and friendship and for that my family and I were extremely grateful.
Hmmm, I never knew about the "11" witnesses. I had to learn all about the Mormons for a decitaion, but when I researched never found anything to do with people actually reading them. I knew about Mormons reading writing FROM the plates, but never reading thew ACTUAL plates.
lol the ever so conspicious"yeah i have the religious plates here but you can't see them, i shall shout it out and you can copy it down"ShowMeTheMonkey wrote:
Hmmm, I never knew about the "11" witnesses. I had to learn all about the Mormons for a decitaion, but when I researched never found anything to do with people actually reading them. I knew about Mormons reading writing FROM the plates, but never reading thew ACTUAL plates.
Well, to start off with, I believe that the isolation that your church espouses makes the members somewhat more sheltered, and therefore weird, than the general members of society. I went to high school with a number of Mormons from several different families, they were different. They listened to different music, had to go to special "mormon school" before classes each day (I went to a private secular college prep school), they don't drink alcohol or caffiene.... Its the differences that set people apart.[RDH]Warlord wrote:
Ya'all seem like a bunch of level headed guys. I hope I can count on this question being answered honestly and thoughtfully.
Now, it's possible that a man named Mitt Romney may be running for president (and this hurts me:) for the Republicans. While I would like to vote a "mormon" in, I just can't vote Republican for awhile.
But that's not what I'm here to complain about. What I am here for, is that I suddenly hear that since he is LDS (or mormon, for those who aren't sure) people are automatically turned off from him. Why are people, not just in presidential elections, so anti-Mormon?
I honestly cannot understand why. I am from Utah, which is obviously very much Mormon. I grew up around Mormons, I AM Mormon. Everyone I know is Mormon. And people treat us as if we're Pagans, or actually more like devil worshipers.
That being said, I have to say that anyone Mormon or raised in a Mormon family/area seem by far much more polite and kind than others. We don't have wierd rituals (in fact, you'd almost think I was an atheist, by the way I live and work and play. And what we BELIEVE in isn't more rediculous than other religions. We got a book (through admittedly wierd ways, but so is the bible), that sounds to me like an expansion to the bible. Just more parables, more stories.
Why do people think we are wierd?
Now, other than being sheltered, I don't know that my mormon friends were any different than anyone else. We had a couple of kids that came from being home schooled, and they were just as "weird" as the mormons were.
Now, I actually dated on of my mormon friends, and that was, well, really REALLY weird. Her family hated me, not becuase of anything I said or did, but becuase I am Catholic, and had no intention of being anything other than Catholic. Her church hated me. Her friends at church were constantly on her ass to break up with me. Now, this has been quite some time ago, and things may have changed, but that kind of shit really pissed me off.
On to why I would never vote for a Mormon as President. I'll be honest, it's because I have nothing in common with any of their values. Look at the big three national politicians that are mormon: Orrin Hatch, Harry Reid, and Mitt Romney. I disagree with just about everything that has ever come out of Hatch's mouth (he's as bought and paid for as my freaking car, with less intelligence). Romney is to socially conserative to run a branch chapter of the KKK, and Reid is just a moron.
Had to laugh out loud to smtt686's post...that stuff has some ironic truth...hahaha, driving on I-15 is taking your own life in your hands. But realistically, shitty drivers are everywhere...hell, I learned to drive in Phoenix where it must be common practice to take idiot pills before you drive anywhere. There is however a tangible feeling of "outcasting" here if you are not LDS.
I would tend to agree with some of the other posts here regarding the LDS Church's history. Now, don't get me wrong here, Warlord, I am not "anti-mormon"...again, some very good friends of mine are LDS. But damn, the history of the Church is pretty friggin' out there and now something somewhat regarded by the Church as "unacceptable". The beginnings, from one point of view, can be interpreted as some solitary guy scamming weak minds and using God as a means to approve adultery...and now for that root belief in the beginning of the religion to be dismissed...succumbed to social pressure? It all seems weird and yes, unfortunately applies a stigma to the religion that makes it difficult for non-members to grasp and wantonly accept. You yourself sound like a pretty "normal" guy though and certainly no one can and should tie you to a part of your religion that does not apply in this day and age (unless of course you plan on living in a compound with half a dozen wives). The media of course makes it even more difficult for current LDS members to gain a validating respect when the history is thrown in the spotlight with current members who still embrace "the original concept and foundations of belief" i.e. that Warren Jeffs character. The question bears a plausible answer; "how can you just abandon and / or deny the existence of a part of your religion?" Sure, I can google a bunch of sites and such, doing my own research...but honestly, I'm not that interested. I'm just trying to illustrate a possible root of some negative connotations aimed towards the LDS people.
I would tend to agree with some of the other posts here regarding the LDS Church's history. Now, don't get me wrong here, Warlord, I am not "anti-mormon"...again, some very good friends of mine are LDS. But damn, the history of the Church is pretty friggin' out there and now something somewhat regarded by the Church as "unacceptable". The beginnings, from one point of view, can be interpreted as some solitary guy scamming weak minds and using God as a means to approve adultery...and now for that root belief in the beginning of the religion to be dismissed...succumbed to social pressure? It all seems weird and yes, unfortunately applies a stigma to the religion that makes it difficult for non-members to grasp and wantonly accept. You yourself sound like a pretty "normal" guy though and certainly no one can and should tie you to a part of your religion that does not apply in this day and age (unless of course you plan on living in a compound with half a dozen wives). The media of course makes it even more difficult for current LDS members to gain a validating respect when the history is thrown in the spotlight with current members who still embrace "the original concept and foundations of belief" i.e. that Warren Jeffs character. The question bears a plausible answer; "how can you just abandon and / or deny the existence of a part of your religion?" Sure, I can google a bunch of sites and such, doing my own research...but honestly, I'm not that interested. I'm just trying to illustrate a possible root of some negative connotations aimed towards the LDS people.
[RDH]Warlord wrote:
I dunno. I like to believe that if I lived back then I would have accepted them as much as I do today, but I can't be sure. All I know is that I've been raised with no racism now, so I have none.
Does no one else see the irony here. Racism is nothing more than the predjudice against those of a different race. You may not be a racist, but you may be a religionist. Ok, I made that up, but you know what I mean. If you are so open minded you would have friends and aquaintances of other religions.'[RDH wrote:
I am from Utah, which is obviously very much Mormon. I grew up around Mormons, I AM Mormon. Everyone I know is Mormon.
Anyway, I persoanlly have nothing against mormons anymore than I have against anyone of other religions. I'm agnostic and think most religions are based on fairy tales. Everyone thinks their religion is right.
But, answering your question directly, people have "issues" with mormons mostly because of the polygamy issue. It was a part of the religion when it was founded and was only ended when the US Gov't made it clear Utah would not become a state if it did not abolish it. (Makes you wonder how important their religion was to them that they abolished one of it's tenents to appease the gov't). And, it is perfectly obvious that the vast majority of polygamist marriages are within Mormon offshoots. Although they may not be affiliated with the "official" Mormon church there is still that connection. And, all those 20/20 specials detailing 40 and 50 year old men marrying 12-15 year old girls only compounds the problems. Hello Warren Jeffs! These people are pedophiles that use their religion for their sick purposes. In almost every "cult" you hear about the leader "marrying" the young girls.
I don't live in Utah and I'm not Mormon, so I can only speak of what I believe to be true based upon what I have seen. While I believe that the Mormon church has disavowed plural marriages, I also believe that they condone it when it occurs in the polygamist sects. The Mormons that are in gov't power need to start cracking down on these people because that is why many people have a poor opinion of Mormons. Until that problem is taken care of, many people will associate all Mormons with polygamists and pedophiles.
Well, the fact that mormons have so many children is one thing that I find a bit weird. At least the few that I knew had at least 5 or 6 kids, which to me is alot. The other things is that mormons seem like they are trying too hard to convert people. I see mormom missionaries almost every week up here. They stick out alot, a couple of skinny kids wearing white shirts, black pants and neckties walking around with a book under their arms.
But hey, religion is a personal thing. Don't make any diferece to me if you're mormom, Jehova's witness, Calvinist, Grrek Orthodox, Rosa Mistica, Muslim, whatever...
But hey, religion is a personal thing. Don't make any diferece to me if you're mormom, Jehova's witness, Calvinist, Grrek Orthodox, Rosa Mistica, Muslim, whatever...
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
I rest my case.Psycho wrote:
...But, answering your question directly, people have "issues" with mormons mostly because of the polygamy issue. It was a part of the religion when it was founded and was only ended when the US Gov't made it clear Utah would not become a state if it did not abolish it. (Makes you wonder how important their religion was to them that they abolished one of it's tenents to appease the gov't). And, it is perfectly obvious that the vast majority of polygamist marriages are within Mormon offshoots. Although they may not be affiliated with the "official" Mormon church there is still that connection. And, all those 20/20 specials detailing 40 and 50 year old men marrying 12-15 year old girls only compounds the problems. Hello Warren Jeffs! These people are pedophiles that use their religion for their sick purposes. In almost every "cult" you hear about the leader "marrying" the young girls.
I don't live in Utah and I'm not Mormon, so I can only speak of what I believe to be true based upon what I have seen. While I believe that the Mormon church has disavowed plural marriages, I also believe that they condone it when it occurs in the polygamist sects. The Mormons that are in gov't power need to start cracking down on these people because that is why many people have a poor opinion of Mormons. Until that problem is taken care of, many people will associate all Mormons with polygamists and pedophiles.