You don't know a shit what you are talking about as always. The words "under God" were added in 1954, which principles are you talking about?Fancy_Pollux wrote:
Yes. We should stick to the principles on which this nation was founded. Fuck all these political correctness poster boys.
Poll
Should the Pledge of Allegiance Say "One Nation Under God"?
| Yes | 58% | 58% - 72 | ||||
| No | 41% | 41% - 52 | ||||
| Total: 124 | ||||||
When they knock on my door i just point a finger too my finnish lastname and says "no speak swedish..."...sadly some of them speak finnish...then i have to claim beeing too drunk for conversation, totaly acceptable reason for fins. ..
I didn't say anything about the words "under God". My statement was much more general, referring to all of the recent developments in political correctness. But please continue with your childish language.sergeriver wrote:
You don't know a shit what you are talking about as always. The words "under God" were added in 1954, which principles are you talking about?Fancy_Pollux wrote:
Yes. We should stick to the principles on which this nation was founded. Fuck all these political correctness poster boys.
You are such an ignorant person, you make me feel sorry for you. First of all, the words "under God" were added in 1954, so you don't know a shit about your loved America. Where in the rules does it say "you must be American to speak about this country", tell me.Jenkinsbball wrote:
Please, stop debating American policies and problems. You don't live here. Who gives a fuck what you think. "Under God" has always been in it, so it shall stay. Anyone that thinks it shouldn't, and actually has an issue with it, is an idiot only looking for publicity.
Unless you're an American living in Argentina, stop posting threads on us. We don't care about Argentina, so you shouldn't care about us. I mean, fuck, 90% of your stupid threads are about how you think America is shit and how you think we should run it.
Nobody cares...
Who the hell are you to say what should I post or not? I will post whatever I want. And show me where this is offensive to America or where this implies that America is shit.
Go and get a lobotomy done FFS.
Last edited by sergeriver (2006-12-28 15:13:07)
The question is "should the pledge of Allegiance say one Nation under God", so this must be the principle you are talking about, nobody questioned other. Of course, "fuck all these PC poster boys" ain't childish. Go back to junk drawer.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
I didn't say anything about the words "under God". My statement was much more general, referring to all of the recent developments in political correctness. But please continue with your childish language.sergeriver wrote:
You don't know a shit what you are talking about as always. The words "under God" were added in 1954, which principles are you talking about?Fancy_Pollux wrote:
Yes. We should stick to the principles on which this nation was founded. Fuck all these political correctness poster boys.
Last edited by sergeriver (2006-12-28 15:11:26)
ok everybody, i go to sleep now its 0h45 AM now by me and im tired of all this political / religius issues and overall im tired to frag, pawn and own people all day, so go take a warrior's rest, and you happy new yearto all of you and see you all in 2007 when i come back from germany.
PS: God does not exist ! :p
PS: God does not exist ! :p
Your topic is "Separation of Church and State".sergeriver wrote:
The question is "should the pledge of Allegiance say one Nation under God", so this must be the principle you are talking about, nobody questioned other. Of course, "fuck all these PC poster boys" ain't childish. Go back to junk drawer.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
I didn't say anything about the words "under God". My statement was much more general, referring to all of the recent developments in political correctness. But please continue with your childish language.sergeriver wrote:
You don't know a shit what you are talking about as always. The words "under God" were added in 1954, which principles are you talking about?
Stop your whining, it's getting old. Or are you trying to derail your own thread?
You think "under god" is bad? Check this out:
http://www.mch.govt.nz/anthem/index.html
Doesn't really bother my atheist arse tho.
http://www.mch.govt.nz/anthem/index.html
Doesn't really bother my atheist arse tho.
There is also a very popular american song called "God bless america". Sure, its not an anthem but its probably sung just as much as the star spangled banner. So maybe we should change it to "Be good America" or something else that is "politically correct". I'm with Pollux on this:
Fancy_Pollux wrote:
Fuck all these political correctness poster boys.
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
I dunno Serge, I think you're still making a huge leap of logic misinterpreting something for who knows what reason. Political correctness does not equal national policy...
Yes, because your standards don't apply to you, and "Fuck all these..." isn't "childish" when you say it.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
I didn't say anything about the words "under God". My statement was much more general, referring to all of the recent developments in political correctness. But please continue with your childish language.sergeriver wrote:
You don't know a shit what you are talking about as always. The words "under God" were added in 1954, which principles are you talking about?Fancy_Pollux wrote:
Yes. We should stick to the principles on which this nation was founded. Fuck all these political correctness poster boys.
When I accuse someone of being childish, I do it for a reason. That reason is that I'm right:k30dxedle wrote:
Yes, because your standards don't apply to you, and "Fuck all these..." isn't "childish" when you say it.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
I didn't say anything about the words "under God". My statement was much more general, referring to all of the recent developments in political correctness. But please continue with your childish language.sergeriver wrote:
You don't know a shit what you are talking about as always. The words "under God" were added in 1954, which principles are you talking about?
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=58672
Last edited by Fancy_Pollux (2006-12-28 18:27:20)
I've debated this argument for a long time. My thought on the issue:
"Under god" should be removed from the Pledge as it was never there in the first place. It was added by a primarily christian push in 1954 in order to form a public prayer that would set us apart from the "godless heathens" in Soviet Russia (the Cold War and McCarthyism in play).
"Under god" itself broke everything that Francis Bellamy intended it to be when he wrote the Pledge in 1892. The "indivisible" in the pledge stood for the National sentiment after the end of the Civil War, giving Americans a final sense of unity in a national saying. The addition of "under god" destroyed the flow of ideas present in the mid-section of the pledge, and only serves to divide us once again as not Everyone in America believes in a god.
Sure, we don't have to say it, but there's no reason to single out a minority and just "let things be as they Are/ignore the trespasses of those in 1954." Remove the public prayer, turn it back to what it was meant to be, and allow unification again.
It's not a matter of being PC at all, it's just that there was no valid reason for it to be entered in the first place, and there's no valid reason to have it continued with exception for it to be something to pass the time with at the beginning of an elementary school class.
"Under god" should be removed from the Pledge as it was never there in the first place. It was added by a primarily christian push in 1954 in order to form a public prayer that would set us apart from the "godless heathens" in Soviet Russia (the Cold War and McCarthyism in play).
"Under god" itself broke everything that Francis Bellamy intended it to be when he wrote the Pledge in 1892. The "indivisible" in the pledge stood for the National sentiment after the end of the Civil War, giving Americans a final sense of unity in a national saying. The addition of "under god" destroyed the flow of ideas present in the mid-section of the pledge, and only serves to divide us once again as not Everyone in America believes in a god.
Sure, we don't have to say it, but there's no reason to single out a minority and just "let things be as they Are/ignore the trespasses of those in 1954." Remove the public prayer, turn it back to what it was meant to be, and allow unification again.
It's not a matter of being PC at all, it's just that there was no valid reason for it to be entered in the first place, and there's no valid reason to have it continued with exception for it to be something to pass the time with at the beginning of an elementary school class.
I heard an interesting conversation on one of the talk radio shows the other day. They were talking about the Christmas Tree bullshit at the SEATAC Airport in Seattle. One guy said:
"ya know, our Constitution gives us the freedom OF reliegion, not the freedom FROM religion". I thought that, that was a very profound statement.
"ya know, our Constitution gives us the freedom OF reliegion, not the freedom FROM religion". I thought that, that was a very profound statement.
maybe, but dont come here.sergeriver wrote:
Wake up. I don't live in America, I just use the pledge as an example. I live in Argentina and the same BS is in our "Jura a la Bandera" (something like the pledge) which says "our beloved God". Should I leave Argentina?|=-sL-.Cujucuyo. wrote:
Yes, it happens also in my native country (El Salvador), and it should stay that way, if some people don't like it then they should get the hell out of the U.S. since they came here to live not to change the way people think, thats why I voted "Yes" on the poll. I hate it when people get 'offended' by something thats on their home country that isn't theirs, take Christmas for example, some idiots found it offensive and now stores and other places must say "Happy holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas", so screw them, if they don't like it then get the hell out!sergeriver wrote:
The Pledge of Allegiance is a promise or oath of allegiance to the United States as represented by its national flag. It says these words: I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under God, indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for all.
I'm asking this about the US Pledge of Allegiance just because this is an American forum, but f.i. the same happens in my country, where the majority is Christian and they force you to say similar crap. If you happen to be from another country please tell us if this also happens in your country.
Isn't this a violation to the First Amendment?
Is it right to mix a patriotic thing and religion?
Where is the separation of Church and State?
What about the atheists or those who aren't monotheistic, aren't those Americans?
Malloy must go
As well as Americans.........*aaahhh* sippin one back with king kadaffhi.......[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi wrote:
When they knock on my door i just point a finger too my finnish lastname and says "no speak swedish..."...sadly some of them speak finnish...then i have to claim beeing too drunk for conversation, totaly acceptable reason for fins. ..
Malloy must go
Cheers deeznutz1245 !! Now...should we use Billy Bong Thornton or Wesley Pipes for the next round?
You have to prove me anti-American. Don't forget it. I know you will find a better link.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
When I accuse someone of being childish, I do it for a reason. That reason is that I'm right:k30dxedle wrote:
Yes, because your standards don't apply to you, and "Fuck all these..." isn't "childish" when you say it.Fancy_Pollux wrote:
I didn't say anything about the words "under God". My statement was much more general, referring to all of the recent developments in political correctness. But please continue with your childish language.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=58672
That's not a bad point.lowing wrote:
I heard an interesting conversation on one of the talk radio shows the other day. They were talking about the Christmas Tree bullshit at the SEATAC Airport in Seattle. One guy said:
"ya know, our Constitution gives us the freedom OF reliegion, not the freedom FROM religion". I thought that, that was a very profound statement.
But when things are specifically to do with a nation it seems bad to exclude people who are just as much a part of that nation because of their beliefs. Religion should have no part in politics, which means all matters of state. Christmas and relgious holidays are a part of the nations culture and are celebrated by many regardless of faith. Lack of acceptance for cultural festivals, religious or not, is one thing - creating segregation within the population through religion (essentially distancing those of different faiths from any sort of nationalism), is quite another.
It wasn't said in the Pledge but the founders said it many many times in personal & public official writings, speeches and prayers. Lengthy debates about how religion would play out in the New Nation were conducted. There is no possible way that an intention by the founders to create a moral state can be ignored in the American Theoligical debate. Let's not ignore everything else to prove the single point.sergeriver wrote:
A. The founding fathers of your country didn't say "one nation under God", the under God thing was added in 1954.Dezerteagal5 wrote:
A./ stop whining. its just 1 word. Im an atheist but i still say it. If you have to cry over 1 word in a song that was created by the founding fathers of this country hundreds of years ago, then your a pussy.sergeriver wrote:
The Pledge of Allegiance is a promise or oath of allegiance to the United States as represented by its national flag. It says these words: I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation under God, indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for all.
I'm asking this about the US Pledge of Allegiance just because this is an American forum, but f.i. the same happens in my country, where the majority is Christian and they force you to say similar crap. If you happen to be from another country please tell us if this also happens in your country.
Isn't this a violation to the First Amendment?
Is it right to mix a patriotic thing and religion?
Where is the separation of Church and State?
What about the atheists or those who aren't monotheistic, aren't those Americans?
B./ if you dont like it dont say it, just dont push your pussyness apon others who might want to say 'Under god'
C./ fail
B. I don't have to say it, I'm not American. I had to say a similar crap in my country with the "our beloved God" thing.
C. The last resource of those without strong arguments.
It should stay, it isn't forcing anyone to believe anything they don't want to, anymore than ACLU or other special interest groups' messages do and it is more morally centered.
In 1954 "under God" was not a minority view and I bet it still isn't even though the religious zealots of the church of ACLU have tried to beat it out of us. Even having its ("Under God") roots in Christianity it clearly acknowledges God referencing a supreme generic being to be identified by each person speaking it and not forcing a named entity. To an atheist this should mean nothing. The minority anti-theists need to stop preaching through the laws.Marconius wrote:
I've debated this argument for a long time. My thought on the issue:
"Under god" should be removed from the Pledge as it was never there in the first place. It was added by a primarily christian push in 1954 in order to form a public prayer that would set us apart from the "godless heathens" in Soviet Russia (the Cold War and McCarthyism in play).
"Under god" itself broke everything that Francis Bellamy intended it to be when he wrote the Pledge in 1892. The "indivisible" in the pledge stood for the National sentiment after the end of the Civil War, giving Americans a final sense of unity in a national saying. The addition of "under god" destroyed the flow of ideas present in the mid-section of the pledge, and only serves to divide us once again as not Everyone in America believes in a god.
Sure, we don't have to say it, but there's no reason to single out a minority and just "let things be as they Are/ignore the trespasses of those in 1954." Remove the public prayer, turn it back to what it was meant to be, and allow unification again.
It's not a matter of being PC at all, it's just that there was no valid reason for it to be entered in the first place, and there's no valid reason to have it continued with exception for it to be something to pass the time with at the beginning of an elementary school class.
The geopolitical situation in 1954 was deadly serious and to dismiss it with a "no valid reason to add it" suggests you don't acknowledge the strain of standing up to a global thermonuclear instant death scenario. The definition of prayer doesn't solidly support your claim that the pledge or portion thereof is even a "prayer" at all. Just to mention the "pecking order" is not a prayer in itself nor is it a Law made by Congress to be followed.
Humans are flawed and need a moral compass. You hold up every mistake, flaw and disgrace made by members of religion while ignoring the good points. This is not the best way to balance a nation.Locoloki wrote:
religion is flawed, arent priests supposed to be holy and have good morals? than why are so many being charged with having sex with little boys. I am not religious and i think sleeping with boys is very bad for god, and very bad for moralsStingray24 wrote:
Ok, let's. The muslim will disagree on specific theology, but regarding general morals I'm sure he/she would be quite content to agree on.Mogura wrote:
"Christian beliefs are mostly common sense morals that everyone should follow" ?
tell that to an muslim, you will see what he will tell you ...
I voted no.... However, I don't really care that it has "one nation under God" in it. The Pledge is simply that. You don't have to say the pledge, and if keeping that phrase in there means so much to so many people, then I don't see much harm in it staying there.
I figure the people who are most patriotic tend to also be religious, and by extension, the people who feel the strongest about the pledge are probably going to be religious as well. So yeah, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Besides, there are much bigger issues that we face in America right now. We can worry about the pledge when we actually have a balanced budget, a balanced trade market with the rest of the world, and when we're finally out of Iraq.
I figure the people who are most patriotic tend to also be religious, and by extension, the people who feel the strongest about the pledge are probably going to be religious as well. So yeah, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Besides, there are much bigger issues that we face in America right now. We can worry about the pledge when we actually have a balanced budget, a balanced trade market with the rest of the world, and when we're finally out of Iraq.
This is a very important point. The truth is, nobody should be forbidden to say the Pledge of Allegiance with the "under God". That would violate their freedom of religion. It's simply their right to believe and say that in this country.Somebody above wrote:
The Constitution gives us freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.
But the converse is true as well. Nobody can deny that the founding fathers didn't want religion forced upon anyone. Why should Public Schoolchildren be sent home because they didn't want to say "under God" (say they're atheist or whatever)? They are not disrupting class: they are simply one fewer voice when the class says it. They are expressing their view without interfering with others, and nothing is wrong with that.
It doesn't matter that the Founding Fathers were Christians, or even that they were religious. Heck, if the issue was about another word in the pledge (maybe they're Southerners that want the Confederacy back and so they disagree with the "indivisible" part), it would be the same thing. Nobody should be forced to say anything they don't want. In a private school you can be sent home, or even expelled. Ok, whatever. As long as the punishment isn't breaking the law. But in a public school, which our tax dollars pay for and which must uphold the doctrines of the government, making people say something they don't believe in is plain wrong.
To prove how absurd this is, let me give an example. What if a teacher made you say that 2+2=5 in class? Surely that is incorrect, and you don't believe that. So then if the teacher sent you home for not saying it, would it be justified? Of course not. This is the same exact thing as if you were made to say anything else.
Not a good example. Creed and science are different. 2 + 2 = 5 is wrong to all people, its science. It may be proven differently in the future, but right now 2 + 2 = 4 to everyone. Believing in God is another thing, I may believe you may not. Neither of us are wrong, we just have different creeds.parth wrote:
To prove how absurd this is, let me give an example. What if a teacher made you say that 2+2=5 in class? Surely that is incorrect, and you don't believe that. So then if the teacher sent you home for not saying it, would it be justified? Of course not. This is the same exact thing as if you were made to say anything else.
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them."
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)