BF2S Forums Holocaust denier released from jail

Well no i don't think that it is right to deny someones freedom of speech but i'd draw the line when it personally effects you. Eg. Someone saying that your religion is false and that it is not as good as my religion something like that.

this has nothing to do with free speech or denial of it. Even in the US one cannot say anything without having to face consequences. If I call a police officer a dickhead and verbally threaten to kill his wife, that is a crime and I'll get arrested.

Free speech doesn't cover everything, and in some countries ( especially those which have suffered under Nazi germany ) this will include denial of the holocaust.

Those who deny the holocaust are usually Neo-Nazis and we don't want those, do we ?

yeah i'm with talon, i never saw the logic in jailing someone for yelling "the earth is flat!!!", it may not be true, but should it be a crime?

B.Schuss wrote:

this has nothing to do with free speech or denial of it. Even in the US one cannot say anything without having to face consequences. If I call a police officer a dickhead and verbally threaten to kill his wife, that is a crime and I'll get arrested.

Free speech doesn't cover everything, and in some countries ( especially those which have suffered under Nazi germany ) this will include denial of the holocaust.

Those who deny the holocaust are usually Neo-Nazis and we don't want those, do we ?

We have neo-Nazis in the UK as well - the British National Party - who seem intent on forcibly deporting anyone who's not white.  I totally disagree with their politics, their intimidation tactics but I still think they have a right to be heard.  I just dismay at the number of people who agree with them.

I wonder, would I be considered having commited a crime in these countries if I likened the Austrian government's reaction to what the Nazis did?  Sure, the Nazis murdered millions of people for their names, religions, etc. but the first step towards that was imprisoning people for their beliefs.  And this is precisely what the Austrian government has done to this guy.

Talon wrote:

I don't really see any harm in denying the holocaust (and I'm Jewish). Trying to restart it, yes, but talking about it? Why is that forbidden?

History repeats itself if something has not been learned about the past.

[UTQ]_Ausch88 wrote:

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

Talon wrote:

I don't really see any harm in denying the holocaust (and I'm Jewish). Trying to restart it, yes, but talking about it? Why is that forbidden?

History repeats itself if something has not been learned about the past.

The best way to learn about this event is to talk about it, not jail the people who do not agree with the way it happened.

that guy bring some point on the table saying that it never happened.. instead of publicly destroy his arguments and prove him wrong, they put him to jail. It would be a better idea to prove him wrong.

Well, I would think sending him to one and know what it's like to be in one would do. Except for all the gassing...

maybe something more like this:

http://www.news4jax.com/news4georgia/10 … etail.html

http://www.nowpublic.com/judge_orders_m … iar_sign_0

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/read … amp;Disp=0

otherwise, i'd be kinda pissed that my tax money funded his jail stay

being jailed for 10 years is stupid
but then again so is dening (?) the holocausts existance, so what happened to those Jews? were they taken away by the Gould to be enslaved on another planet?

This is a gross breach of freedom of speech.

You can deny that Sep 11th did not happen...why not this?

Truth does not need laws to support it.

well, let's put it this way. There are no serious historians who can legitimately deny or question the holocaust. Why ?
Because we know it happened.

In other words, every so-called "historian" claiming it didn't happen is not a real historian, but is most likely a Neo-Nazi with an agenda, aimed on spreading his lies and filthy propaganda.

a quote from BBC report:
"Irving was arrested in November last year on a motorway in southern Austria. He was visiting to give a lecture to a far-right student fraternity."

Neo-Nazis cannot be reasoned with. They have an agenda, and that agenda represents a threat to our democracies and freedoms. Thus, we have created laws to protect us from them and make sure that anything like the Third Reich never happens again in Europe.
And btw, I don't think anyone of us, since we are so young, can really imagine what it must have been like back then. Those laws were created when the memories of Nazi Germany were still very much present in the hearts and minds of people here.
And I think it is a god thing they still exist. People forget so easily.

Again, don't let the term "historian" fool you. Those who deny the holocaust are no serious scientists. They are Neo-Nazis and intent on re-instating the horrors of the Nazi regime. You cannot argue or reason with them.
They have an agenda, and it is aimed at destroying democracy and freedom as we know it.

Much like islamic fundamentalists, by the way. And we are not reasoning with those either, are we....

It was a cheap trick to jail him in the first place. Yeas its considered "illegal" to deny holocaust in Austria but there are people that deny it every day and dont get arrested. Its on of those laws that are there more for show. Reason it caused anger here is that at the same time there are polititians that are openly playing the "kick Islam out of Austria" card and a strong anti-Turkish propaganda. Not to mention that it was around the same time as the Muhamed A.S cartoons (NOT SURE but I think it was around the same time).

I believe that forbiding idiots to deny holocaust is actualy helping those same idiots. Its, kind of, giving them credibility and definitly helping them sway the youth. They can use it as an argument when claiming the Jewish people run the world and crap like that.

B.Schuss wrote:

[UTQ]_Ausch88 wrote:

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

History repeats itself if something has not been learned about the past.

The best way to learn about this event is to talk about it, not jail the people who do not agree with the way it happened.

that guy bring some point on the table saying that it never happened.. instead of publicly destroy his arguments and prove him wrong, they put him to jail. It would be a better idea to prove him wrong.

you do realize that he has since admitted he was "mistaken" about denying the holocaust. what an ass. He didn't have the evidence to support his claims, and didn't want to admit that he was a Neo-Nazi either. So he flip-flopped.

and btw, talking about the holocaust is not illegal. And learning about it ain't illegal either. But we already know how it happened and we surely don't need any so-called "historians" to spread their Neo-nazi propaganda.

He was in jail for ten years, you can't blame him for 'flip-flopping'.

We don't know how it happened, history is an uncertain thing subject to unlimited debate and revision. As such, it is only fair that we do not suppress the discussion of alternate points of view, however offending. This is not to say we cannot ignore someone when they say things we do not want to hear, but it is not within our right to punish them otherwise for their opinion.