i gave up on churches a long time ago, i believe they ruin religion. Not individual churches, but the hiearchy of power they create. When you bring that much power over peoples lives and "souls" it corrupts the people who have it and leads to things like the crusades and jihads, witch burnings and excommuincations. I find some of the basic teachings of the bible to have good intentions (do onto others.. the ten commandments) but the church itself is what is wrong with religion as far as I am concerned.
Then you are incredibly idealistic, and completely blinded by your hatred of religion.Bernadictus wrote:
Christians, Muslims and Jews.
All the same big pile 'o converting, thought up by some weird old man in the middle of a dessert 4000 years ago, because he had nothing to do.
I believe in one thing tough, that the world will at last be in peace, the moment all religions disappear from the face of the earth.
k30dxedle wrote:
Oh really? Maybe you should look at your own posts in this thread. Your second post (a double post, with nothing in between the two, I might add):
Yea I though he had a weak argument. Did you think I was referring to his physical ability? Oh, you did?DBBrinson1 wrote:
Weak man.
k30xedle wrote:
What comes to my mind first? Oh yeah...
See above. Did I call him a name? Nope. Was I called a "dipshit"? Yep. "Weak Man". It's sad you can't correctly distinguish and apply the appropriate meaning of a word used a sentence applicable to the circumstances in which its attended. I would have merely written "context", but I wanted to make sure it is clear to you.You later wrote:
immediately verbally assaulted
Rules apply to me. And I follow them. Do I make mistakes? Sometimes -Oh no I doubled posted! Let's string him up!k30xedle wrote:
Do rules not apply to you or something? You can do things other people can't? Is there something I've been missing - does the Bible endorse double standards? You really aren't helping the ideas you're "supporting", no matter how much you think you might be.
I bet I can do many things you can't. And I'd bet there are things out there that you can do that I can't. Also, I'm positive that there are many things you are missing.
And for the record. There are many teaching in the bible that contradict each other. I won't bother telling you. I doubt you really care. You're more interested in attacking a person who believes in God. But that's cool, I forgive you
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
You can tell their nutty when fellow Christians say "Hey, we have nothing to do with that guy over there..."
*smacks forehead* You do realize I was trying to maintain some civility in this thread, and you just fucked it up. Please, just jerk yourself in the shower if you can't respond logically and on the actual topic of this thread.DBBrinson1 wrote:
Good thing your mom wasn't.Turquoise wrote:
*sighs* Look, I'm pro-choice myself, but could you please find a more sensible way of questioning his stance on it?...Reciprocity wrote:
I didn't bother to read any of your manifesto, but did you whine about abortion?
Look. A woman loses choice over her body when there is another one developing inside it.. That is it. End of debate. There is nothing else. Any man that says he is pro choice is a weak little man-wanna-be. You put your cock into something and are oblivious or unprepared for the after effects... You ain't a man. You are a weak little bitch who can't deal.. Grow up. You don't want the responsibilities of a man? Then don't play his games. Go jerk it in the shower.
Fire with fire?Turquoise wrote:
*smacks forehead* You do realize I was trying to maintain some civility in this thread, and you just fucked it up. Please, just jerk yourself in the shower if you can't respond logically and on the actual topic of this thread.DBBrinson1 wrote:
Good thing your mom wasn't.Turquoise wrote:
*sighs* Look, I'm pro-choice myself, but could you please find a more sensible way of questioning his stance on it?...
Look. A woman loses choice over her body when there is another one developing inside it.. That is it. End of debate. There is nothing else. Any man that says he is pro choice is a weak little man-wanna-be. You put your cock into something and are oblivious or unprepared for the after effects... You ain't a man. You are a weak little bitch who can't deal.. Grow up. You don't want the responsibilities of a man? Then don't play his games. Go jerk it in the shower.
Don't get me started, newbie.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Fire with fire?Turquoise wrote:
*smacks forehead* You do realize I was trying to maintain some civility in this thread, and you just fucked it up. Please, just jerk yourself in the shower if you can't respond logically and on the actual topic of this thread.DBBrinson1 wrote:
Good thing your mom wasn't.
Look. A woman loses choice over her body when there is another one developing inside it.. That is it. End of debate. There is nothing else. Any man that says he is pro choice is a weak little man-wanna-be. You put your cock into something and are oblivious or unprepared for the after effects... You ain't a man. You are a weak little bitch who can't deal.. Grow up. You don't want the responsibilities of a man? Then don't play his games. Go jerk it in the shower.
Quran pie definantly isn't as good though; its to spicy and has to much calligraphy for me.jet burned wrote:
Hey, did any of you know that the bible can also be used ... as a hat.
Bible pie is pretty good to. Mmmmm ... pie.
And the Quran ... cannot be used as a hat. You'll get headshoted.
I was wondering whre you went Turq. Rest assured, I have been thoroughy flamed. I didn't bring up the point of abortion. However when some one else does, I will weigh in. I'm not the guy you'd see that firebombs clinics, snipes Doctors, harasses women on the way into the clinic, or even pickets outside the clinics -However, I do feel pretty strongly about it. And I had a beer or two in me.Turquoise wrote:
*smacks forehead* You do realize I was trying to maintain some civility in this thread, and you just fucked it up. Please, just jerk yourself in the shower if you can't respond logically and on the actual topic of this thread.DBBrinson1 wrote:
Good thing your mom wasn't.Turquoise wrote:
*sighs* Look, I'm pro-choice myself, but could you please find a more sensible way of questioning his stance on it?...
Look. A woman loses choice over her body when there is another one developing inside it.. That is it. End of debate. There is nothing else. Any man that says he is pro choice is a weak little man-wanna-be. You put your cock into something and are oblivious or unprepared for the after effects... You ain't a man. You are a weak little bitch who can't deal.. Grow up. You don't want the responsibilities of a man? Then don't play his games. Go jerk it in the shower.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
*nods* Good, I was hoping that there was a good explanation for that. I retract my response.DBBrinson1 wrote:
I was wondering whre you went Turq. Rest assured, I have been thoroughy flamed. I didn't bring up the point of abortion. However when some one else does, I will weigh in. I'm not the guy you'd see that firebombs clinics, snipes Doctors, harasses women on the way into the clinic, or even pickets outside the clinics -However, I do feel pretty strongly about it. And I had a beer or two in me.
Sorry. I'll make a note of that, that man = argument.DBBrinson1 wrote:
Yea I though he had a weak argument. Did you think I was referring to his physical ability? Oh, you did?DBBrinson1 wrote:
Weak man.
Last edited by k30dxedle (2006-12-19 16:58:40)
"Man" was meant to be used as slang. Weak dude. Weak bro. Weak ____.k30dxedle wrote:
Sorry. I'll make a note of that, that man = argument.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
I'm Athiest! Down with the invisible rulers and creators in the sky!
I’m not doing so good keeping up here! After the holidays hopefully I’ll have more time on my hands. Well, here’s my second response. I know responding this way may be a bit confusing, but I'm trying to answer those who posted first.
Post #5
Post #5
I would agree with that. At the same time, I believe people of all faiths should be good citizens and voice their opinion in regard to the laws of this country. I’m sure you agree with that, too.Turquoise wrote:
. . . I'd be a lot more comfortable around this group if they'd spend less time telling me what to do and focused on their own morality. . .
Would people even believe had they not been indoctrinated from an early age? My family tried to raise me as a good roman catholic, but I always found everything I had to do ridiculous and always found mass to be a big waste of time (from a really early age).
I realized I wasn't feeling anything special when performing the actions of catholic ritual, I was only doing what others told me to do, trying to feel what others were telling me to feel. It was all like a huge game of pretend, and it's a game that everyone still plays. I dropped out of doing anything related to catholicism when I was around 12, when I started reading other sources and fully understanding what the faith entailed. I started thinking for myself, rather than just accepting what the priests and my religious teachers were telling us.
I don't think anyone can be "saved" by a belief unless they are told over and over again that it will happen to them by their parents during their most impressionable years. Faith and belief shouldn't be taught, they should be left to arrive as "god wills it."
I realized I wasn't feeling anything special when performing the actions of catholic ritual, I was only doing what others told me to do, trying to feel what others were telling me to feel. It was all like a huge game of pretend, and it's a game that everyone still plays. I dropped out of doing anything related to catholicism when I was around 12, when I started reading other sources and fully understanding what the faith entailed. I started thinking for myself, rather than just accepting what the priests and my religious teachers were telling us.
I don't think anyone can be "saved" by a belief unless they are told over and over again that it will happen to them by their parents during their most impressionable years. Faith and belief shouldn't be taught, they should be left to arrive as "god wills it."
Post#14
The choice is ours – free salvation or rejection of Jesus. God has given us free will and free salvation. In light of that, He does not send anyone to hell. The ball is completely in humanity’s court. Salvation is only about believing Jesus is the Messiah, sent to give His life as the perfect sacrifice for our sins. Not believing in the parting of the Red Sea or Noah’s Ark won’t send anyone to hell.
Allowing humans to reject salvation is not rooted in arrogance, but justice. God is just and logically must ensure justice is carried out. We sinners cannot exist in the presence of a holy God because we are not holy. In order for humanity to have any ability to become pure, a perfect sacrifice had to be made. That’s where Jesus comes in. He came to earth in the form of a man, yet fully God. He chose to lay down His life for us and in that act, God showed His mercy. We sinners did not deserve any salvation, but God chose to provide it for us, so we could live in His presence someday. We have the ability to reject that mercy by refusing to believe. God has no control over that decision.
-------------
PS I'll answer your question in order, Marconius. I'm trying to make up some ground!
As a “former” believer, you probably are aware of the info my post will contain, but I will still add it just incase.CommieChipmunk wrote:
If God is arrogant enough to send anyone and everyone to hell because they have half a brain to not believe that the Red Sea was parted or have faith in the divinity of Jesus Christ then honestly, thats bullshit.. not faith or religion..
The choice is ours – free salvation or rejection of Jesus. God has given us free will and free salvation. In light of that, He does not send anyone to hell. The ball is completely in humanity’s court. Salvation is only about believing Jesus is the Messiah, sent to give His life as the perfect sacrifice for our sins. Not believing in the parting of the Red Sea or Noah’s Ark won’t send anyone to hell.
Allowing humans to reject salvation is not rooted in arrogance, but justice. God is just and logically must ensure justice is carried out. We sinners cannot exist in the presence of a holy God because we are not holy. In order for humanity to have any ability to become pure, a perfect sacrifice had to be made. That’s where Jesus comes in. He came to earth in the form of a man, yet fully God. He chose to lay down His life for us and in that act, God showed His mercy. We sinners did not deserve any salvation, but God chose to provide it for us, so we could live in His presence someday. We have the ability to reject that mercy by refusing to believe. God has no control over that decision.
-------------
PS I'll answer your question in order, Marconius. I'm trying to make up some ground!
Post #22
The portion of my response to post #14 that mentions justice may answer your question. Your instincts are correct. God is not a bully in the sky, ready to gleefully whack us into oblivion if we make one wrong step. Instead God has provided free salvation - I’d much rather have that than a system of “does and don’ts” where if I screw up, I’m doomed. I’d never make it that way!Nicholas Langdon wrote:
question i have always wondered:
god is all knowing and omnipotent, so why would he give a damn and punish people for not believing in him. I mean if you were the greatest and most powerful thing to ever happen, would you behave like an insucure little child who has to threaten people into having faith in them.
sounds more like something a greedy church would be doing...
i believe that there is something out there that created us, intentionaly or unintentionaly. but whatever it is i dont believe that it is the vengful bully that the church would have us believe....
Post #50
Very thoughtful response. I haven’t baptized my son, either. In my opinion, that should only happen when someone who is of age understands what they are doing. Teaching my son what I believe to be the truth is my duty from my point of view. Though, like you, I leave the choice up to him. No matter what faith he chooses I will never stop loving and supporting him. However, I will not pretend that I believe he’s following the truth if he does not accept Christ as his Savior. I am not of the “all roads lead to Rome” school of thought. Logically, all “truth” cannot be true. Or as Jesus said, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father, except through me.” The exact chapter and verse don’t come to mind right now.JahManRed wrote:
. . . I didn't baptize my son. But that doesn't mean I will discourage him from being a Christian. In fact, when he is old enough I will let him decide for himself. My job as his parent is not to push my views on this subject on him as I believe that everyone should find their own way, but more to provide him with as much subjective information and let him come to his own conclusions. I will then support him no matter what path he chooses.
I think that is the problem with religion, particularly Christianity in general. 'Saved' people think it is their 'god' given right to convert the heathen masses. Why? If someone wants to believe that the Gully Drain at the back of their house is the path to heaven, let them, its their choice. I think Fundamentalist Christians have discouraged allot of people from turning to Christianity by creating such a stigma about it all.
True... but whatever is proposed as law must have a logical basis. It's ok to have a religious basis for a law as long as it is accompanied by something that secular people can appreciate. I just hate it when people only debate in terms of scripture. The Bible may be an interesting book, but it is limited in its worth to people who don't believe in it. Therefore, policy discussions should always have a rational basis that everyone can level with.Stingray24 wrote:
I’m not doing so good keeping up here! After the holidays hopefully I’ll have more time on my hands. Well, here’s my second response. I know responding this way may be a bit confusing, but I'm trying to answer those who posted first.
Post #5I would agree with that. At the same time, I believe people of all faiths should be good citizens and voice their opinion in regard to the laws of this country. I’m sure you agree with that, too.Turquoise wrote:
. . . I'd be a lot more comfortable around this group if they'd spend less time telling me what to do and focused on their own morality. . .
I'm breaking my rule and responding out of order. I agree with you, Turquoise - a logical/rational basis should be present because the US is not a theocracy. Debating political issues only in terms of Scripture, without connecting it to other points of logic, would cause understandable resistance from those who do not believe the Bible.Turquoise wrote:
True... but whatever is proposed as law must have a logical basis. It's ok to have a religious basis for a law as long as it is accompanied by something that secular people can appreciate. I just hate it when people only debate in terms of scripture. The Bible may be an interesting book, but it is limited in its worth to people who don't believe in it. Therefore, policy discussions should always have a rational basis that everyone can level with.Stingray24 wrote:
I’m not doing so good keeping up here! After the holidays hopefully I’ll have more time on my hands. Well, here’s my second response. I know responding this way may be a bit confusing, but I'm trying to answer those who posted first.
Post #5I would agree with that. At the same time, I believe people of all faiths should be good citizens and voice their opinion in regard to the laws of this country. I’m sure you agree with that, too.Turquoise wrote:
. . . I'd be a lot more comfortable around this group if they'd spend less time telling me what to do and focused on their own morality. . .
Same thing happened to me. exept i was 14 when i realised the bullshitCommieChipmunk wrote:
Yeah I was a "believer" right up until about 3 months ago, i've never really thought of it before (i'm only 16 so i've kinda blindly followed).... and I sat down, thought about it for a while, got kinda pissed and realized how ridiculous the whole thing is.. If i'm wrong and i end up in hell, so be itDBBrinson1 wrote:
That is why it is called faith. Something you obviously lack.CommieChipmunk wrote:
If God is arrogant enough to send anyone and everyone to hell because they have half a brain to not believe that the Red Sea was parted or have faith in the divinity of Jesus Christ then honestly, thats bullshit.. not faith or religion..
15 more years! 15 more years!
Post #55
No debate, you hit the nail on the head. We're supposed to spread the message, without running through a crowd wildly swinging Bibles.dubbs wrote:
I believe that you are correct in this point. Those people who are very strict when it comes to Christianity makes it worse for everyone else.JahManRed wrote:
I think Fundamentalist Christians have discouraged allot of people from turning to Christianity by creating such a stigma about it all.
Also, you point about Christians think it is their "god" given right to convert people. That is a commandment given to them in the Bible. That does not mean that they should shove it onto people when ever they feel like it. If they were to acutally do what the Bible says, they would actually show people the love that God shows in the Bible, and that will lead to the person converting to Christianity. (If there is any Christian who wants to debate this fact with me, PM me.)
Post #59
The intelligent design title fits very well for those of us who believe that, at the very least, an intelligent being created the universe. The title really doesn't matter. I will go no further in my explanation because this is not an ID vs. evolution thread. Perhaps you could start a thread like that if you are genuinely interested in ID. Though from the "smell" and "obviously isn't" parts of your post, it does not sound like you're open minded about the subject.Ratzinger wrote:
I think I smell "intelligent design".dubbs wrote:
if you read the Bible, you would know that the Bible says that even creation itself shows that there is a creator.
Why do they call it that, when it obviously ISN'T!
Post #63
A terrible choice sums the situation up. I would prefer that the mother deliver the child and adopt he/she to loving parents who could not conceive their own child. However, I can also understand the arguments on the other side of the "in case of rape" argument who support abortion.EVieira wrote:
You can't condemn a child, and unborn child, to the crimes of his or her father, under no circumstances. There can't be anything more innocent than a baby, not to mention one that is still slowly and carefully growing inside his/her mother's womb.
That his/her mother must choose to let it live or not is a terrible choice, but I would hope she chose to have the child. If there was one thing I learned from living in different countries is that children are all the same, no matter where you live. They will always like candy, and always love their mother.
Post #73
You’re exactly right. Anyone can sin, ask God’s forgiveness (sincerely) and be welcome in Heaven. As to choosing a different path - John 14:6 “Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” Readdressing “falling short”, yes, we all fall short and are in need of Jesus. After accepting salvation we cannot lose it. Romans 8:1 “There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus”. Also verses 38-39 of the same chapter, “For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of Christ Jesus our Lord.”Fen321 wrote:
You quoted "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" , but i can sin right now, but ask God for forgivness and be welcome in to heaven so that quote doesn't really apply to the question being asked. For all are sinners this is true, but that doesn't answer whether choosing a different path outside the one we are born with is correct or not. So are we all going to hell because we fall short of the glory of God? Even you can say this is not true because that would imply we are all going to hell, lol that's not a good thing. Back to the question that was asked yes Salvation is through Christ only....how is this just...dunno
The question of just is a difficult one for it will rely on opinion and relation to the situation. I see it as unjust the position of being born outside of a religion that is not christianity and being punished for this. That's unjust for it would be no problem to live a moral life and believe in "a" God but somehow fail to mention Jesus and be punished for this.