BF2S Forums Confessions of an average Christian

"Why are we different to a blade of grass or a cat?"
-i was under the impression that blades of grass didnt have consious thought.

"Do blades of grass have a heaven?"
- no, they are blades of grass, heaven would be kinda waisted on them what with them not being able to see taste touch or hear.




Ouija boards are evil and cannot give you truth.

Colfax wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

For the sake of argument, if there is a god and He passed his word to us, then it has since been distorted beyond all belief by human selfishness, arrogance and bigotry. Take what's important and useful out of religion and put it into practice: be a good person and serve humanity.

You're mistaken
The reliabilty of the bible holds up through time more then you would ever believe.  If you did research on this by typing bible manuscrpits or biblical manuscrpits you would know this but here we go.

Because the Bible is a book, it was initially made up of manuscripts. Consequently a primary means for ascertaining its credibility today are the number of copies from those manuscripts which are currently in one's possession. The more copies we have the better we can compare between them and thus know if the document we now read corresponds with the original.

source: http://debate.org.uk/topics/history/bib-qur/bibmanu.htm

Author                        Date Written      Earliest Copy      Time Span   Copies (extent)
Secular Manuscripts:
Herodotus (History) 480 - 425 BC          900 AD              1,300 years       8
Thucydides (History) 460 - 400 BC        900 AD               1,300 years        ?
Aristotle (Philosopher)384 - 322 BC      1,100 AD             1,400 years     5
Caesar (History)      100 - 44 BC           900 AD             1,000 years       10
believe these guys wrtings right?  Man look how much of their original work is left?

how bout the bible
(Total New Testament manuscripts = 5,300 Greek MSS, 10,000 Latin Vulgates, 9,300 others = 24,000 copies)
(full table in link)

More info involving manuscripts (quick read)
http://home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/Manuscript.html

Manuscript Evidence for the New Testament^
There are more than 24,000 partial and complete manuscript copies of the New Testament.

These manuscript copies are very ancient and they are available for inspection now.

There are also some 86,000 quotations from the early church fathers and several thousand Lectionaries (church-service books containing Scripture quotations used in the early centuries of Christianity).

Bottom line: the New Testament has an overwhelming amount of evidence supporting its reliability.


_______________

I hate it when people talk distortion of the bible when they have no clue that they are utterly wrong.
THis is some info if you want more find it urselves.

Alright. Then tell me which individual Bible is 100% correct. If you can't, then there's distortion. Congratulations, You have provided two websites when you didn't have to.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-12-19 05:04:28)

"Whats to say that heaven isn't a life force holding pen of sorts, were its just life energy floating around?"

jesus said "tommorow you will be with me in paradise"
what you said is not paradise

I think we humans have come up with the concepts of heaven and reincarnation to distract ourselves from something we truly fear, that if we die we spend all of eternity not knowing anything and not existing.

I mean come on, an eternity of nothingness is a pretty scary concept.

Last edited by TeamZephyr (2006-12-19 05:06:18)

Christians, Muslims and Jews.

All the same big pile 'o converting, thought up by some weird old man in the middle of a dessert 4000 years ago, because he had nothing to do.

I believe in one thing tough, that the world will at last be in peace, the moment all religions disappear from the face of the earth.

I think I'm going to have to quit my job in order to have time to adequately answer all these questions.   I will attempt to answer some more later today.  I'm trying to go from the beginning of the thread to the end.  Maybe that's not the best way.  Keep posting, these are good honest questions.

Colfax wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Alright. Then tell me which individual Bible is 100% correct. If you can't, then there's distortion. Congratulations, You have provided two websites when you didn't have to.

If you read the links you would have read:

Manuscript #1: Jesus Christ is the Savior of the whole worl.

Manuscript #2: Christ Jesus is the Savior of the whole world.

Manuscript #3: Jesus Christ s the Savior of the whole world.

Manuscript #4: Jesus Christ is th Savior of the whle world.

Manuscript #5: Jesus Christ is the Savor of the whole wrld.

Oh know to much distortion between them....OMG my heads gonna explode.......(sarcasm)

Have you read a bible before?  Different versions.  They say the same thing in different bible translations(i.e.New International Version, King James, study bible)  The original content is still there.  Example above.  You would have to be mentally challenged not to be able to understand what its saying.  There are different translations because sometimes a teenager wouldn't be able to understand the dialect of King James bible but could understand the NIV.  The bible is the most reliable piece of history out there.  Its been proven by secular and biblical scholars.  Accounts in the bible match up with historical events that are recorded in other texts.

Well said!

All right guys.  This has grown more interesting than I ever expected.  Here are a few Ideas to chew on.

Christianity is based on symbolism just like many other faiths.  For instance, Baptism - a cleansing of sin.  In actuality it is more of an acknowledging of sin.  By being baptized I am acknowledging that I am not perfect and that I make mistakes and I am sorry for them AND I will make an effort to the best of my frail humanity to make less mistakes in the future.

Along those lines I have to believe that just because you do not know Jesus does not mean you do not know you are imperfect and repentant for misdeeds that have effected your neighbors and the world around you.  Jesus was sent here to change our way of thinking and to guide our freedom of choice.  No one religion is perfect because they are all based on humanity.  ATG - Your goat herder could be saved, if he is willing to accept that he is fallible and makes every effort to compensate for his humanity.  He does not have to be Christian to better himself and those around him.

As for the criticisms of churches and religions.  The institutions of faith are institutions of education and teaching.  Just like we all go to school to learn math, science and other "truths", most of us need to be schooled in our faith.  Just as most of us lose some of our knowledge when we graduate and move into the real world, we can lose some of the meaning of our faith by exiting our church.  Now this presents the question, is it more valuable to experience different religions to get a better understanding of our faiths.  I think that it is.  Each of the religious institutions have messages that can help and hurt our faith.  It is important for us to experience as many ideas as possible so we can make an educated decision on how to lead our lives.

What ever god is out there will he just and willing to measure us on our live as a whole.  Not analyzing every decision but how we made those decisions and were our hearts and faith guiding our actions.

Just food for thought.

By the way, I am a Christian, catholic, husband, father, brother, American with a college education and over 26 years of life experience.  Judge me as you like.

Last edited by KnowMeByTrailOfDead (2006-12-19 10:20:59)

BwC-Grizzly wrote:

Colfax wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Alright. Then tell me which individual Bible is 100% correct. If you can't, then there's distortion. Congratulations, You have provided two websites when you didn't have to.

If you read the links you would have read:

Manuscript #1: Jesus Christ is the Savior of the whole worl.

Manuscript #2: Christ Jesus is the Savior of the whole world.

Manuscript #3: Jesus Christ s the Savior of the whole world.

Manuscript #4: Jesus Christ is th Savior of the whle world.

Manuscript #5: Jesus Christ is the Savor of the whole wrld.

Oh know to much distortion between them....OMG my heads gonna explode.......(sarcasm)

Have you read a bible before?  Different versions.  They say the same thing in different bible translations(i.e.New International Version, King James, study bible)  The original content is still there.  Example above.  You would have to be mentally challenged not to be able to understand what its saying.  There are different translations because sometimes a teenager wouldn't be able to understand the dialect of King James bible but could understand the NIV.  The bible is the most reliable piece of history out there.  Its been proven by secular and biblical scholars.  Accounts in the bible match up with historical events that are recorded in other texts.

Well said!

No, I did read your links. I've also read three variants of the Bible and (oh gosh, no) even the Koran and the Book of Mormon besides. Despite the a few inconsistencies between the three Bibles, I have seen contradictions in single versions. Ex:

GE 20:12 And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.
LE 20:17 And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it is a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.

You don't have to preach to me about faith. I am Christian and I agree with some of the morality explained in the Bible as far as it makes sense, but I find it difficult to follow any particular church when so many disagree and bicker with each other. The Bible(s) may be the word of God, but they're still written and copied by men.

And some would argue that you would have to be mentally challenged to believe in a deity in the first place, so please leave off the insinuations. It's fairly unchristian-like.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-12-19 13:13:37)

Colfax wrote:

Go to a church that is non denominational and doesn't preach extreme christianity one way or the other.  The church i have been going to for 15 years teaches biblical principles that apply to every day life.  Like creating a better marriage, dealing with stress, and a purpose drive life.

Why should I? They'd just be preaching to the choir. I can do better as a Christian just by trying to live up to the moral standards of charity and kindness, rather than spending a couple of hours indulging in self-praise.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-12-19 13:26:40)

Fen321 wrote:

ATG check out this lecture by Alan Watts, I have a feeling it will be easy to understand for you and anyone else with an open mind.

http://deoxy.org/w_self.htm

Great read...

Out of curiosity, I clicked that. I have an open mind, but:

I think sometimes that the two symbols of our present kind of technological culture are the rocket ship and the bulldozer. The rocket as a very, very phallic symbol of compensation for the sexually inadequate male. And the bulldozer, which ruthlessly pushes down hills and forests and alters the shape of the landscape. These are two symbols of the negative aspect of our technology.

...the heck?

Space travel is phallic? Bulldozers are the only things on this planet that change the shape of the terrain (come on, water has been at it since before humans existed).

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Colfax wrote:

Go to a church that is non denominational and doesn't preach extreme christianity one way or the other.  The church i have been going to for 15 years teaches biblical principles that apply to every day life.  Like creating a better marriage, dealing with stress, and a purpose drive life.

Why should I? They'd just be preaching to the choir. I can do better as a Christian just by trying to live up to the moral standards of charity and kindness, rather than spending a couple of hours indulging in self-praise.

So your perfect and know everything about living a moral life?  How do you define your moral standards?  Because charity and kindness are biblical princples.  And i don't spend a couple of hours.  its about 30 mins really of actual "preaching" if you want to call it that.