BF2S Forums Which God is God?

Speaking of odds.  If there is no God and we refuse to accept free salvation, we're all compost.  The end.  If there is a God and we refuse to accept His free salvation, we arrive in a very hot, unpleasant place.  I'll go with the safer option.  If there is no God, I lived a good life and helped my fellow man as much as I could.

Last edited by Stingray24 (2006-12-17 11:22:02)

Stingray24 wrote:

Speaking of odds.  If there is no God and we refuse to accept free salvation, we're all compost.  The end.  If there is a God and we refuse to accept His free salvation, we arrive in a very hot, unpleasant place.  I'll go with the safer option.  If there is no God, I lived a good life and helped my fellow man as much as I could.

I understand how you think. But if there is a God, i do not think that he is so small-minded he will exclude me from heaven only for not believing in him. No one can call me a bad person in any way. I do not know many that helps people more than me. I always stand up for the weaker, often risking harm to myself. Luckily i have never got badly beaten. But if god feels i do not deserve to come in to his heaven just because i did not believe in him, i would rather burn in hell.

Bertster7 wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

Speaking of odds.  If there is no God and we refuse to accept free salvation, we're all compost.  The end.  If there is a God and we refuse to accept His free salvation, we arrive in a very hot, unpleasant place.  I'll go with the safer option.  If there is no God, I lived a good life and helped my fellow man as much as I could.

Pascal's gambit.

A very callous way of looking at these things I think.

More callous than the "there's no God, so who cares, I'll live for myself and screw everyone else" school of thought?  My post above was completely philosophical and assumed no faith was involved, only survival instinct.  My personal viewpoint is much different.

Turquoise wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

Speaking of odds.  If there is no God and we refuse to accept free salvation, we're all compost.  The end.  If there is a God and we refuse to accept His free salvation, we arrive in a very hot, unpleasant place.  I'll go with the safer option.  If there is no God, I lived a good life and helped my fellow man as much as I could.

Yet...  you can do the same as a secular humanist.  You can live for the now, fight poverty and crime because of the inherent good involved.  I'm not sure exactly how innate morality is and how much of it is environmental, but I think we probably agree on many moral issues despite not being of the same religious mindset.

It is true that, if you are correct, I'll be going to hell, but I'm willing to risk that, because I know that hell is far from being the only possibility (or even the most likely one).  Anything is technically possible, whether it is reincarnation, hell, heaven, or just death.  I just figure death is the most likely by default.  We've yet to see any concrete evidence of an afterlife.

In addition to this, there are just too much uncertainty and external factors involved for me to believe that a benevolent god would allow so much of the world to go to hell by a matter of circumstance.  There are too many people born into non-Christian cultures that have no reason to convert, that I find it impossible to believe these people will go to hell just for being born in the "wrong" culture.

We can most definitely agree on many moral issues, religious mindset or not.  I do not believe we humans are completely evil without religion, nor are we worthy of Heaven without accepting salvation.  My view is we're somewhere in the middle if we choose no religion and obey because society tells us to. 

I'm not sure how we can see any concrete evidence of an afterlife without some faith involved.  When my Grandpa (who is the most moral man I've known in this life) passed away, he said, "Wow . . . wow . . . I didn't know there would be so many people here."  Then he raised his hands as high as they could reach and held them there until someone gently pushed them back to the bed.  Why is that amazing?  He had cancer and had not had the strength to lift his arms at all for months, let alone hold them that high for that long.  In addition to my faith, that event fully convinced me there is an afterlife. 

People born into non-Christian cultures are the reason so many Christians travel to other cultures and teach about Jesus.  The Bible states it is our duty to tell the world about Him in our own town, country and culture and then to other cultures.  I personally believe that God will wait until every culture has been presented with the knowledge of Jesus before coming back to earth.  That is not substantiated in the Bible, but seems logical to me. 

Mackaronen wrote:

I understand how you think. But if there is a God, i do not think that he is so small-minded he will exclude me from heaven only for not believing in him. No one can call me a bad person in any way. I do not know many that helps people more than me. I always stand up for the weaker, often risking harm to myself. Luckily i have never got badly beaten. But if god feels i do not deserve to come in to his heaven just because i did not believe in him, i would rather burn in hell.

God does not exclude anyone from Heaven.  He’s made salvation free and gives everyone the free will to decide for ourselves if we’ll accept it or not.  I am not calling you a bad person, no human can reach the perfection of God.  I know I certainly cannot.  I accepted Jesus’ sacrifice to receive forgiveness for my failures.  As I’ve said in other threads, it’s human nature to want to do things to earn Heaven on our own.  It comes natural for us to want to be in control and determine our own destiny.  Christianity goes against our nature and offers salvation without having to perform certain deeds to work our way there.  Ultimately, we decide our destiny based on our choice.

Bertster7 wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Pascal's gambit.

A very callous way of looking at these things I think.

More callous than the "there's no God, so who cares, I'll live for myself and screw everyone else" school of thought?  My post above was completely philosophical and assumed no faith was involved, only survival instinct.  My personal viewpoint is much different.

That is by no means the only school of 'there is no God' thought. The 'living responsibly and looking out for other people because it is the right thing to do rather than because some probably non-existent deity says so' philosophy appeals most to me.

I was referring to that viewpoint on the scale of callousness, certainly it is not the only 'there is no God' view available.

Last edited by kessel! (2006-12-17 12:25:19)

Stingray24 wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

More callous than the "there's no God, so who cares, I'll live for myself and screw everyone else" school of thought?  My post above was completely philosophical and assumed no faith was involved, only survival instinct.  My personal viewpoint is much different.

That is by no means the only school of 'there is no God' thought. The 'living responsibly and looking out for other people because it is the right thing to do rather than because some probably non-existent deity says so' philosophy appeals most to me.

I was referring to that viewpoint on the scale of callousness, certainly it is not the only 'there is no God' view available.

Fair enough.
I was just trying to put across the fact that Pascal's gambit (which is what you described) is a very callous way of looking at these things. My opinion was based solely on the fact that Pascal's gambit is a direct application of game theory and so about as callous as you can get.

I appreciate there are many people who don't believe in God who act in a very selfish manner, but the same can be said of many who do believe in a God.

Bertster7 wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

That is by no means the only school of 'there is no God' thought. The 'living responsibly and looking out for other people because it is the right thing to do rather than because some probably non-existent deity says so' philosophy appeals most to me.

I was referring to that viewpoint on the scale of callousness, certainly it is not the only 'there is no God' view available.

Fair enough.
I was just trying to put across the fact that Pascal's gambit (which is what you described) is a very callous way of looking at these things. My opinion was based solely on the fact that Pascal's gambit is a direct application of game theory and so about as callous as you can get.

I appreciate there are many people who don't believe in God who act in a very selfish manner, but the same can be said of many who do believe in a God.

QFE!  Some of the most arrogant, sanctimonious, self righteous, evil, vile things to ever be considered a human being, were also some of the most religious.  By the same token, some of the most selfless, kind, caring, and giving people were not of any sort of organized faith.

If there were a God, and he would not accept those that didn't actively seek salvation through some organized religion, but acted more in accordance with the so called message of the Bible, I wouldn't want any part of any god that would act like that.

Last edited by Agent_Dung_Bomb (2006-12-17 13:04:31)

I AM TEH GODZ INFEREORS!

On a more serious note, you can't judge ANY religion by some of the people who follow it - you can't judge Christianity by Opus Dei, and you can't judge Islam by al-Qaeda.

Again, I put a theological problem:

There is one spot left in heaven (hypothetical, so unless you are a total idiot don't say 'there'll never be only one spot because yadada'), and there are two people to take it. One is a devout Christian (for the purposes of the excercise). The other is not, he is a stubborn Atheist. The Christian is self-centred, greedy, unkind, unfair, lazy yet overly proud. However, he goes to Church every day (and then some), and 'devotes' his life to God. The Atheist is kind-hearted, selfless and a constant donator to charity. However, he abhorres the notion of God and does not believe Jesus ever set foot on the Earth.

Who gets in?

God is unknowable and it is beyond the ability for man to fathom and understand God.

For man to think that God made the universe simply for man is about as big of an anthropic bias as there can be.

The excistance of man is but a mere blip in respect to the age of the universe, so consequently i would be hard pressed to believe that i am the creation of a being whom made this simply for me and shares the same human characteristics as me.

Salvation from what? Hell?

So you are being saved from the possibility of going to hell for not believeing in a certain path to God, of which i would argue there are many. Alright, first one must acknowledge the excistance of such a place and consequently if one believes in its excistance one must also believe that "God" allows its excistance. So a merciful being as those described by many is now allowing the excistance of such a place, now this is not a common attribute to assign to anyone that is trying to help you, by that i mean if someone wants to save you and has the ability to do so then why hold back and watch some make it while others don't?

Bertster7 wrote:

He is God. Father of Mithras - NOT Jesus. The Christians just ripped off the story of Mithras as the son of God and used it for Jesus.

Mithras was born on Christmas, in a stable, surrounded by 3 sheperds and 3 wise men, he died and came back to life a few days later on a Sunday, he had a last supper with his 12 disciples. It's all just ripped off from previous religions. He didn't have a mother though, he was born from a rock. His followers worship him by eating bread and drinking wine that represent his body and blood, they are also baptised and the core of the religion is centred around life being a struggle between good and evil ending in judgement and believe in a revelations bringing final judgement and resurrection of the dead.

Mithraism predates Christianity.

It's the little things like this that make me extremely sceptical of any religions.

ok first off the Christinas didnt rip that off of anyone.

Jesus wasnt born on Desember 25 and the wise men and sheperds were not there at same time.
The Sheperds were there when he was first born, than the wise men came 2 years later.
And he died when he was about 30 years old, from the jews hangin him, than he came back to life 3 days later.

And it wasn't on sunday eather, note it says he was in the ground 3 days and 3 nights...friday to sunday isnt 3 days and 3 nights...he died wedensday night and rose very early sunday morning...says it was still dark.
And yes he did have a mother and a father, Joseph and Mary.
And yes there is going to be a final judgement and everyone that died will rase and everyone will be judged and it doesn't matter that you are a good person..sure thats good but thats not going to get you saved or into heaven.

Scr0k wrote:

Ok well Christianity is the real religion


1. I have a Christian friend that temporarily died and was revived at the hospital and he swore that he was in heaven talking with god.
2. The bible isn't something man made up, like the Hindu Religion and the Muslim Religion and the Buddhist Religion (Galatians 1:11)
3. Feel free to believe in whatever you want, but I look forward to meeting you in heaven.

P.S. Mayan Calendars are the most accurate calenders in history, they have been 22 seconds off from the modern day calendar, which is the true accurate calender. The Mayan Calender says that the world will end and that The 2nd coming of Christ will happen on December 23rd, 2012....


I believe that the rapture (see Revelations) will occur in our lifetime.

John 3:16
Galatians 4:7
Isiah 53:6

-Scr0k

Nice to see some one else that is a Christian

But first off when you die you dont go to heaven, you go stay right on earth till the Christ comes back.

And totally agree with you that the Bible wasn't made up.

Not sure were you got about when Christ is coming back but it say that man doesn't know the day or the hour he will come back...says it will be unexpected. And there isnt going to be a rapture, like people are not going to just disappear. It says when he does come everyone will see, as far as the east is from the west so shall he appear.

you can check what i say out in the Bible, but i know what im talking about.
i have been going to church for 16 years and study the Bible and my dad is a Pastor and he can explane just about anything in the Bible.
And no im not brainwashed, but i dont not care what anyone says because in the end i know im saved.

Last edited by leesupport (2006-12-17 17:49:45)

I'm not religious but I do follow the Golden Rule. " Do unto other as you would have them do unto you "
Pretty much my guide in life. Hasn't failed me yet.