BF2S Forums Convicted killer took 34 minutes to die

Commie Killer wrote:

The_Shipbuilder wrote:

GATOR591957 wrote:

In the Old Testament the following crimes deserved the death penalty:
3. Speaking a curse over parents (Ex 21:17).
6. Practicing magic (Ex 22:18).
7. Fortune telling and practicing sorcery (Lev 20:27).
9. Adultery and fornication (Lev 20:10-12, Deut 22:22).
10. If a woman has intercourse before marriage (Deut 22:20-21).
17. Homosexuality (Lev 20:13).

Do Christians believe that those crimes deserve the death penalty?

If not, why not?

Because we have advanced 2,000 years, even though religion is stupid, and this topic has already become to religious, I dont think anyone believes that those things deserve death.

Thanks, but again, I'm interested to hear from Christians. Yes, 2,000 years have passed, but does time dilute the direct instructions of God to Moses?

Is there a statute of limitations on God's word?

If not, why SHOULDN'T real Christians kill adulterers, gays, people who swear at their parents, or women who have sex before marriage?

Kill and be killed back...Simple!

Why would we keep a murderer in jail for the rest of his day when we can kill him right now and save lots of money!

Pug wrote:

I've posted mine in this thread.  It's the same as everything, you pick what's important and follow it.

As far as the bible goes, it's contradictory.  You can pick and choose a topic, but it's really up to individual interpretation.

Yep.

But if you are Christian and believe in the death penalty, what are your thoughts on Jesus encouraging us to go beyond "eye for an eye" and to forgive?

Do you think this teaching of Jesus' is incorrect?

Do you believe words from God's mouth > words from Jesus' mouth?

Have you never considered this teaching of Jesus because it contradicts your own opinion?

Do you ignore anything in the bible that contradicts your own opinion?

That's the sort of stuff I'm interested to hear about. I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong or right here. I'm honestly interested to hear from people who subscribe to particular religions, to understand more about how people use and interpret their religion's teachings, especially when key documents teach completely contradictory things.

34 minutes of chemicals getting pumped into you? I figure it actually be painful if he was getting rocks thrown at him for all that time but come on... If he wanted to die fast, guillotine or firing squad

The_Shipbuilder wrote:

I'm curious to hear from Christians in favor of the death penalty. How can you justify your support, given the fundamental teachings and beliefs of your faith?

Who is the one pulling the switch? If you don't, you haven't killed anyone.

The Shipbiulder wrote:

But if you are Christian and believe in the death penalty, what are your thoughts on Jesus encouraging us to go beyond "eye for an eye" and to forgive?

Do you think this teaching of Jesus' is incorrect?

Do you believe words from God's mouth > words from Jesus' mouth?

Have you never considered this teaching of Jesus because it contradicts your own opinion?

Do you ignore anything in the bible that contradicts your own opinion?

That's the sort of stuff I'm interested to hear about. I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong or right here. I'm honestly interested to hear from people who subscribe to particular religions, to understand more about how people use and interpret their religion's teachings, especially when key documents teach completely contradictory things.

Religion isn't a contract. You aren't forced to agree with everything that is said by it. Abortion, for instance; the pro-life people aren't all religious and the pro-choice are not necessarily all areligious.

Last edited by DesertFox423 (2006-12-14 13:20:42)

You take someones life, you have no right to keep your own. Period.

The_Shipbuilder wrote:

. . . Clearly the Bible encourages the following:

1) Thou shalt not kill
2) lex talionis (eg eye for an eye, life for a life)
3) In certain circumstances, it's OK to kill someone else
4) Jesus says to go beyond lex talionis, and to be above all that by forgiving even our enemies

If you are Christian and have ANY opinion on the death penalty, your belief directly violates SOME teaching of the Bible. To Christians in favor of the death penalty, how and why do you choose to support "eye for an eye" when Jesus teaches that we should be above that? For Christians against the death penalty, what about the many very specific examples that God spoke to Moses of when it is OK to kill someone? Do you believe God was wrong to say this? If God instructed us to kill any woman who has sex before marriage, how can anyone deny his direct orders and still call themselves Christian?

I did not read the rest of the thread, stopped to address your questions, so I apologize if I'm repeating anything others have posted.  It is your opinion the stances you list conflict with each other.  I seriously doubt I will convince you otherwise.  Still, I will try to answer your question to the best of my ability.

Here is some pertinent info that needs to be added to the discussion:

1 - You state "clearly" the Bible says thou shalt not kill. 

A search regarding the Hebrew word in that passage will show that "kill" is better translated "murder".  Sometimes it is necessary to go back to the original language to determine the full scope of a verse. 

2 - Eye for an eye

The purpose of this was to provide fair retribution against the offender by the civil authority on behalf of the offended.  The obvious intent was to prevent the offender from carrying out his own justice, which would not be fair and in most cases probably ended up being excessive.  Example: A man sleeps with another man’s sister, so the offended kills the offender.  The punishments served to remove dangerous people from society (Deut. 19:19) and to deter potential criminals from breaking the law. (Deut.  19:20) Much more to this concept, but I don’t feel like listing it here. 

3 - In certain circumstances, it’s OK to kill someone else. 

Not sure specifically what you’re referring to here.  Basic logic would tell us that killing to defend myself is permissible.  This goes back to point #1, murder is wrong.  Any other killing must be punished based on the motivation.   

4 - Jesus says to go beyond lex talionis, and to be above all that by forgiving even our enemies.

Individually, yes, forgive our enemies.  It is not for us to carry out retribution on our own.  However, as in #2, the government has the responsibility to protect society and enforce the law so potential criminals have a reason to fear punishment. 

This is all off the top of my head and is my opinion in a nutshell on the death penalty based on my study of the Bible to this point.  I do not believe it violates any other teaching in the Bible, but I could be wrong.  A better answer could be given with a bit of study, but I don’t have time for that right now.  If I did not answer all your questions, let me know and I'll attempt to answer them.

He murdered a person.  The way I see it he should have been tortured to death.

Stingray24 wrote:

If I did not answer all your questions, let me know and I'll attempt to answer them.

I think I get the basics of your interpretation - the "eye for an eye" should apply to governments, whereas the "turn the other cheek" should apply to individuals.

Very insightful, thanks for taking the time to answer. +1

RicardoBlanco wrote:

My ONLY issue with capital punishment is making sure the guy you kill is actually guilty. 100% certainty is hard to prove.

QFT how many death row convictions have been overturned. However I do beleive in the death penalty.

ATG wrote:

Solution: pull one of these into the prison yard.

http://i10.tinypic.com/334hlyg.jpg




http://i12.tinypic.com/40emm3m.jpg




Give them a pint of vodka and some valium and rig a conveyour belt feeding them in after they pass out.

puke!!!!

I saw the results of an LA City shredder snagging a worker once and that's enough. It took only 7/10 of a second though not enough time to even register the pain before lights out.

The_Shipbuilder wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

If I did not answer all your questions, let me know and I'll attempt to answer them.

I think I get the basics of your interpretation - the "eye for an eye" should apply to governments, whereas the "turn the other cheek" should apply to individuals.

Very insightful, thanks for taking the time to answer. +1

Glad to be of service.  Thanks for reading with an open mind.

[pt] KEIOS wrote:

errare humanum est


you can not be 100% sure that there isn´t a failure in the judgement.

the united states killed a lot of innocent people, because some judges/lawyers/whatever failed.


pro death penalty:
- revenge. the dumb lynchmob gets, what it wants. it is what your instinct wants, not what heart or ratio would  recommend.

contra:
- it is more expensive to execute a prisoner, than to keep him in jail for his lifetime
- you don´t kill innocent people, when you keep them in jail
- there are a large variety of murder. some of them could be done from everyone, because you can understand the reason why and might would act the same way, too (if someone rapes your mother and daughter and you get the chance the next day to revenge - who wouldn´t unload his gun into the rapist?) - but that would still be murder and murderers should get executed?
- death penalty is final. but people can change. if someone stays 30 years in prison for a murder and becomes another man - give him a second chance to pursue happiness

the main problem here is, that there are too many idiots here, who can only see black and white, yes and no, "be with us or be with the terrorists".
but all my words can´t change those, because they will not take a look on the more complicated reality. it is better to be dumb but happy, than smart and sad...

A lot of the points you make against the death penalty would be countered by making the process a simple 2-appeal system with a bullet in the head upon failing the second appeal.

As for the statistical thing about innocents being killed....  Let's face it.  The justice system isn't really about justice, it's about revenge.  When you live in a country with an abnormally high rate of murder (for a First World Country at least), you need the death penalty.

Also, we have the highest incarceration rate per capita of any country in the world.  Our prisons are already full as it is, so we don't need serial killers taking up space.

The third thing is....  I think certain revenge killings should be legal.  If you come home from work one evening to find your spouse fucking someone else, you should be allowed to kill both of them right there.  I know I probably would.

I can say that I would certainly let a guy or girl off the hook while being on a jury, if the situation was one where I would kill someone out of vengeance myself.  Sometimes, that's what justice really is.

why give them a tax funded free pass?