Poll

Before citizenship, should immigrants learn English effectively?

Yes96%96% - 54
No.3%3% - 2
Total: 56
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6719|The Land of Scott Walker
Just had a thought.  Today I happened to overhear a co-worker assisting a Hispanic/Latino/Mexican customer. (I never know what politically correct term to use.)  My town is primarily white middle class and in the past several years we have an increasing population of folks from Mexico.  The CSR (customer service rep) was speaking in Spanish to the customer when I came in from lunch and this question popped into my mind:

Are we doing Mexican immigrants a disservice by not making them learn the language so they can communicate effectively?  I have several Mexican families that I’ve gotten to know and they’re wonderful, friendly people.  They can speak extremely limited English and can read English in a limited manner, also.  If they don’t have their kids (who can speak fluent English) with them or a CSR doesn't speak Spanish, they can’t do business in most cases.  I feel they are making it hard on themselves, because these customers can understand English, but they cannot communicate effectively.  This brought a second question, which carries over to our schools:

All children deserve to be educated, but do they deserve to be educated in a language other than the national language of the country?  Are we doing them a disservice to them, too, by not requiring them to learn the language of our country in order to receive education?

If you’re a racist, please don’t clutter up the thread, the mods will knock you down to size with the banhammer anyway, so might as well not waste space. 

Discuss and post any possible creative solutions that come to mind.
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|7010|Salt Lake City

I always thought some level of proficiency was required for the citizenship test.  If they have done away with it, it needs to be brought back.  I absolutely think basic English skills should be part of the requirements for becoming a citizen.

Last edited by Agent_Dung_Bomb (2006-12-08 11:29:50)

Jenkinsbball
Banned
+149|6822|USA bitches!
I voted yes. If I went to Mexico to live (I only speak English), Mexico wouldn't try and cater to me. We are the only country that does this shit. We change road signs and such for different ethic groups, so they won't play the race/discrimination card. We infect any other area in another country and expect the same treatment we give them.

Why do we, as Americans, have to press 1 for the English option?
MDFSpacePhantom
It is I
+146|6658|San Jose CA.
No, I say let them speak what ever they want it's a free country....
adam1503
Member
+85|6662|Manchester, UK
I do think its a good idea that immigrants learn at least some rudimentary English if they want to live in an English-speaking country.  They dont have to be fluent, but they should know enough to enebla them to get by.  Here in the UK there's a big problem at the moment with "ethnic minorities" not being integrated enough into mainstream society. 

I know that not all immigrants cant speak English, but if those who cant speak any were able to, then Im sure it would help community cohesion a LOT.  Wouldn't you feel awkward if you saw your neighbour everyday but could never speak to them because they didnt speak English?

On the other hand, maybe they find it hard to find the facilities to learn English.  I dont know how the immigration system works and how easy it if for them to get support, but maybe if the facilities were easier for them to find and use, they would be able to learn English.  Maybe there should be some sort of free tuition classes provided by Government for all immigrantrs who want them:  they should be free and easy to access.

Last edited by adam1503 (2006-12-08 11:32:56)

Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|7010|Salt Lake City

MDFSpacePhantom wrote:

No, I say let them speak what ever they want it's a free country....
No one is saying that they can't speak Spanish, only that they must have a basic understanding of English to become a citizen.
adam1503
Member
+85|6662|Manchester, UK

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

MDFSpacePhantom wrote:

No, I say let them speak what ever they want it's a free country....
No one is saying that they can't speak Spanish, only that they must have a basic understanding of English to become a citizen.
Exactly, they dont have to speak it ALL the time, just when they're around people who dont speak their language.  Its just polite to learn the language and customs of a country thats kind enough to provide you and your family with a safe place to live, and that most of the time even pays for you to stay there.
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6719|The Land of Scott Walker

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

MDFSpacePhantom wrote:

No, I say let them speak what ever they want it's a free country....
No one is saying that they can't speak Spanish, only that they must have a basic understanding of English to become a citizen.
Yes, by all means one should keep their culture and speak Spanish to others who wish to speak Spanish.  However, in order to function effectively in a country that speaks English, it would be to their benefit to learn English.  In schools, I feel it is unfair for a teacher that does not speak Spanish to be passed over for a job.  A friend of mine experienced just that - lost out on her dream teaching job in her own country because she wasn't bilingual.  Ridiculous.  I blame political correctness.
krazed
Admiral of the Bathtub
+619|7054|Great Brown North
fuck political correctness, im tired of going to the store and getting served by someone who cant even pronounse the name of the store they're working at >.< if you want to live and work here, LEARN FUCKING ENGLISH. no, i dont have to learn your language, because you came here, if i went to your country i wouldnt expect them to conform to my language and life style.
TheBelcorwyn
The Man With the Golden AK
+21|6915|Gainesville, FL
Absolutely.  I couldn't imagine relocating to another country without being courteous enough to them and myself to learn the language first.  Furthermore, I couldn't imagine becoming consternated with the natives when they can't understand English or my broken interpretation of their language.  It's base logic to learn the form of communication before venturing into a foreign country.
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6719|The Land of Scott Walker

krazed wrote:

fuck political correctness, im tired of going to the store and getting served by someone who cant even pronounse the name of the store they're working at >.< if you want to live and work here, LEARN FUCKING ENGLISH. no, i dont have to learn your language, because you came here, if i went to your country i wouldnt expect them to conform to my language and life style.
I try to cut people some slack in that regard.  Maybe they just got here and they're trying their best to learn.  If I went somewhere else I'd want them to be patient with me if I was trying as best I could.  However, as you say, I wouldn't demand they speak my language if I decided to live in a foreign country.
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7031|Argentina
Por supuesto.
BN
smells like wee wee
+159|7042
Yes, I think they should. Not cos i am xenophobic though.

I have lots of polish friends in Australia. A lot of them have degrees and masters qualifications from Poland but their English is not good enough for them to work in their field of choice. They end up as cleaners, washing dishes for cash, etc.

One of my friends English is pretty poor. She works for cash at a local nursing home. She cant buy a house cos she cant substantiate an income.

Its in their bests interest to learn english
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6679|North Carolina
Fuck yeah...  Although, at least with regards to Mexico, just making sure the immigrants are legal is hard enough by itself.
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6835
My view on this is the same as in Australia: yes, provided language schools are provided as a free coomunity school type thing.
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6742
Yes.
SpaceApollyon
Scratch where it itches
+41|6794|Finland
For citizenship, absolutely yes!
zero_x830
Member
+5|6698|Netherlands
Its a world langauge and almost understood everywhere so: yes.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6829
If you want to be a citizen of another country it should be compulsory for you to be proficient in the first language of that country. Simple as. We have hundreds of thousands of poles, estonians, latvians and lithuanians in the country now and their children all have to learn Gaeilge in school. The funny thing is they do a better fucking job of learning it than some Irish people.

As an aside however - I have noticed a lot of banks and shops putting up adverts in Polish beside the ones in English/Gaeilge lately.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-12-09 05:43:13)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,054|7046|PNW

The hardware store I go to repeats everything in Spanish, even announcements over the loudspeaker. I suppose if they didn't, then all the Mexicans up here would have no idea what they're buying, and the product quality of their cheap labor would go down.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-12-09 05:42:33)

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