BF2S Forums Why do people become Atheists?

Stingray24 wrote:

norge wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

If we're truly the masters of our own destiny, why haven't we grasped the details of our universe by now?  Because we have finite minds.  We can't possibly fully understand the complete depth of our universe.  All we have are scientific theories that are a feeble attempt to explain things in terms we can wrap our minds around.

i love the misinformed.

I wanna point out that a "Theory" in science, is basically as concrete as it gets.  In everyday usage a theory is something that might or might not be, but in science, a theory basically is proof.

Theory in science is based on the most recent discoveries.  Science once thought the world was flat, that the sun revolved around the earth, etc etc the list goes on.  Since we see science constantly adjusting it's "facts" with new discoveries, it cannot be concrete.

I would argue science is more reliable than religion because it is continually open to improvement.  Religion and tradition take a long time to change -- as we're discovering in the Middle East currently.

Stingray24 wrote:

Why would anyone use the lack of perfection in another human being, religious or otherwise, as the sole factor in determining their belief system?
EDIT: Serious question.  Not meant to demean anyone.  I would really like to know why that is the case.

Good point...  for me, it was a combination of things that lead to my atheism, but the actions of many Christians didn't improve my opinion of organized religion.

To be fair though, I used to room with a Christian fundamentalist in college.  We got along because he was one of the few that actually practiced what he preached, and he understood that his restrictive code of ethics did not apply to non-believers.  He was far more logical than most fundamentalists I encounter.  So yeah, there are some religious people that I can respect.

Turquoise wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

Why would anyone use the lack of perfection in another human being, religious or otherwise, as the sole factor in determining their belief system?
EDIT: Serious question.  Not meant to demean anyone.  I would really like to know why that is the case.

Good point...  for me, it was a combination of things that lead to my atheism, but the actions of many Christians didn't improve my opinion of organized religion.

To be fair though, I used to room with a Christian fundamentalist in college.  We got along because he was one of the few that actually practiced what he preached, and he understood that his restrictive code of ethics did not apply to non-believers.  He was far more logical than most fundamentalists I encounter.  So yeah, there are some religious people that I can respect.

Thoughtful post, well done.

KILLSWITCH wrote:

OK i must admit I havent read many other posts but...

Has it ever ocurred to any of the religious, that if we raised a child, yes an innocent child, naturally, then he/she would not miracuously believe in a god.  We are animals and there is no such thing as a god.  'God' is something that was created by a few lunatics that tried to keep their people in check by doing so. 

Religion is something that corrupts the weak, i.e. Innocent children who have no choice but to believe in it because their allready corrupt parents tell them to do so.

Its a poison I tell you.

At the very least, wouldn't you agree that religion in general teaches us to be better people?  There is obviously much more to religion in my opinion, but can we agree on that?  Moral values are not a poison are they?

KILLSWITCH wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

KILLSWITCH wrote:

OK i must admit I havent read many other posts but...

Has it ever occurred to any of the religious, that if we raised a child, yes an innocent child, naturally, then he/she would not miraculously believe in a god.  We are animals and there is no such thing as a god.  'God' is something that was created by a few lunatics that tried to keep their people in check by doing so. 

Religion is something that corrupts the weak, i.e. Innocent children who have no choice but to believe in it because their already corrupt parents tell them to do so.

Its a poison I tell you.

At the very least, wouldn't you agree that religion in general teaches us to be better people?  There is obviously much more to religion in my opinion, but can we agree on that?  Moral values are not a poison are they?

At a basic level, yes it does.  However when there are contrasting views around the world about who's gods morals are right or wrong, then it does nothing but separate people and cause death and destruction.

Why cant we instill moral values into people without religion?

It is true that religious conflict causes a lot of the world's problems.  Secular humanism provides a source for morality that most people can agree with, religious or not.  Its ethics are very similar to the Ten Commandments.

Personally, I see religion as an inevitability.  It will always exist, so why bother trying to remove it?  As long as church and state are separate, things should be ok.

Anyway, thanks for the support, Stingray. 

stef10 wrote:

Well as I said above there are a lot of thing in science, that we really can not explain. We do not have the technology or the brains therefor we can not say there is not a God.

i little more than 100 years we didnt know how to fly, a little more than 50 years we didnt know how to use uranium to produce elecricity....
yes you are right NOW there is a lot of things that science cant axplain, but ask again in 100 years or 1000 or 10 000 years....

Stingray24 wrote:

KILLSWITCH wrote:

OK i must admit I havent read many other posts but...

Has it ever ocurred to any of the religious, that if we raised a child, yes an innocent child, naturally, then he/she would not miracuously believe in a god.  We are animals and there is no such thing as a god.  'God' is something that was created by a few lunatics that tried to keep their people in check by doing so. 

Religion is something that corrupts the weak, i.e. Innocent children who have no choice but to believe in it because their allready corrupt parents tell them to do so.

Its a poison I tell you.

At the very least, wouldn't you agree that religion in general teaches us to be better people?  There is obviously much more to religion in my opinion, but can we agree on that?  Moral values are not a poison are they?

your "christian" moral values are not universal moral values ! when christianity spread out in europe, africe , then america, first thing christian missiobaries did when they come in some culture ( that had his own moral values and traditions) is to say that all that is evil and devil made, and that only good way is christian way, else they will go to hell.
thats how most of ancients culures were destroyed !
who are you to say that your moral walues are the best ? or the only good moral walues ? universal ?
from the first moment of his existance religion works towards uniformisation of humainti, religion dont accept the difference !

KILLSWITCH wrote:

Religion is something that corrupts the weak, i.e. Innocent children who have no choice but to believe in it because their allready corrupt parents tell them to do so.

Its a poison I tell you.

Bull, I know many extremely strong people who would run rings around you intellectually as well as physically. They aren't weak, Most religious people I know are very strong and capable of extreme thought processes. the premise that religous people are weak is exteremely foolish and also a very poor argument. And the belief that religous parents are corrupt (i notice you don't allow room for the possibility that only some may be corrupt) is also beyond erroneous, Seeing that most of society's problem children who are involved in drugs and etc were brought up in homes that had "uncorrupt" parents as you seem to see it, who had no bearing or rasising in religion. They had no morals, and as such were not restrained.

It's no coincidence that the fall in religious belief correlates to an increase in the decay of our inner cicites and society as we know it.

Last edited by jarhedch (2006-12-09 03:14:36)

I don't talk in tongues......

The question should not be "Why do people become atheists"

The question should be "Why do people become religious"

Religion is not a natural, instinctive part of an beings existence.  Without languages, there would be no religion, or "god" for that matter.  "God" only existed after religions were created.  If I grew up on a deserted island, spoke no language, and had no communication with the outside world, I would bet my life on the fact I would have no f'ing clue what religion is, who Jesus Christ is/was, or any other of that bullcrap.

So again , I say the question should be "Why do people become religious"

Turquoise wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

norge wrote:

i love the misinformed.

I wanna point out that a "Theory" in science, is basically as concrete as it gets.  In everyday usage a theory is something that might or might not be, but in science, a theory basically is proof.

Theory in science is based on the most recent discoveries.  Science once thought the world was flat, that the sun revolved around the earth, etc etc the list goes on.  Since we see science constantly adjusting it's "facts" with new discoveries, it cannot be concrete.

I would argue science is more reliable than religion because it is continually open to improvement.  Religion and tradition take a long time to change -- as we're discovering in the Middle East currently.

Exactly. Science's ability to adapt to new discoveries only aids its prominence. Ironically, Stingray pointed out that once we thought the the sun revolved around the earth. This was a staple of the Catholic Church's doctrine. By using current scientific beliefs, the Church was able to declare God's authority over such things. Galilaeo was able to dismiss such an archaic belief as the sun revolved around the earth, not only challenging the current scientific theory, but the Church's authority as well. Obviously, if the sun didn't revolve around the earth, then the Church was wrong! The Church has refused to change their story, because it contradicts their dogma, while science can change. It is not reversing theories again and again, it is building new theories and facts on top of solid, concrete facts, such as 'The Earth is not flat'.

Mogura wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

At the very least, wouldn't you agree that religion in general teaches us to be better people?  There is obviously much more to religion in my opinion, but can we agree on that?  Moral values are not a poison are they?

your "christian" moral values are not universal moral values ! when christianity spread out in europe, africe , then america, first thing christian missiobaries did when they come in some culture ( that had his own moral values and traditions) is to say that all that is evil and devil made, and that only good way is christian way, else they will go to hell.
thats how most of ancients culures were destroyed !
who are you to say that your moral walues are the best ? or the only good moral walues ? universal ?
from the first moment of his existance religion works towards uniformisation of humainti, religion dont accept the difference !

Notice I stated religion "in general" teaches us to be better people.  I did not say what religion or from which culture the religion arose.  Nor did I say my personal moral values are universal or the best.  I was very careful to ask my question in general terms.

Stingray24 wrote:

Mogura wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

At the very least, wouldn't you agree that religion in general teaches us to be better people?  There is obviously much more to religion in my opinion, but can we agree on that?  Moral values are not a poison are they?

your "christian" moral values are not universal moral values ! when christianity spread out in europe, africe , then america, first thing christian missiobaries did when they come in some culture ( that had his own moral values and traditions) is to say that all that is evil and devil made, and that only good way is christian way, else they will go to hell.
thats how most of ancients culures were destroyed !
who are you to say that your moral walues are the best ? or the only good moral walues ? universal ?
from the first moment of his existance religion works towards uniformisation of humainti, religion dont accept the difference !

Notice I stated religion "in general" teaches us to be better people.  I did not say what religion or from which culture the religion arose.  Nor did I say my personal moral values are universal or the best.  I was very careful to ask my question in general terms.

Religion is supposed to teach people to be better.  But when you see the child molesters, when you read about beheading if you don't pray in Somalia, when you read about the Crusades, when you read about the Inquisition, when you read the news everyday about the Middle East, you realize that Religion makes people commit the worst crimes in the name of a God.  Does God agree with this?

Last edited by sergeriver (2006-12-09 11:48:40)