Utility of actions

2006-12-08 08:33:44

#1

Elamdri: The New Johnnie Cochran; +134|6929|Peoria

I want to pose 2 hypothetical scenarios.

A: A state has captured a terrorist. We know that this terrorist has planted a nuclear bomb somewhere in a large metropolitan area. This area is populated by over a million people. The terrorist has told us that the bomb will go off in 2 hours. We believe that if we torture the terrorist, he will tell us the location of the bomb.

Are we justified in doing so?

B: A state has captured a terrorist. We know that this terrorist has planted a nuclear bomb somewhere in a large metropolitan area. This area is populated by over a million people. The terrorist has told us that the bomb will go off in 2 hours. We do not believe that if we torture the terrorist, he will tell us the location of the bomb. However, we also have the terrorist's 7 year old daughter, an innocent third party, in custody. We believe that if we torture his child in front of him, it will compel him to tell us were the bomb is.

Are we justified in doing so?

Think hard.

2006-12-08 08:38:24

#2

Parker: isteal; +1,452|6677|The Gem Saloon

thats a rough one. yes on the first, no on the second. im saying that strictly because most humans posess an animal instinct to protect children. what kind of torture would be used on the terrorist.....there is a two hour time limit, so sensory depravation is out of the question. so we are just talking about good old fashion torture.....the pulling the finger nails out etc.....

that is an attack on an innocent person, and we would be no better than that terrorist if we harmed his daughter.....

2006-12-08 08:40:09

#3

CameronPoe: Member; +2,925|6838

How about evacuating the fucking city for a start.

2006-12-08 08:41:18

#4

Elamdri: The New Johnnie Cochran; +134|6929|Peoria

Parker wrote:
thats a rough one. yes on the first, no on the second. im saying that strictly because most humans posess an animal instinct to protect children. what kind of torture would be used on the terrorist.....there is a two hour time limit, so sensory depravation is out of the question. so we are just talking about good old fashion torture.....the pulling the finger nails out etc.....

that is an attack on an innocent person, and we would be no better than that terrorist if we harmed his daughter.....

I leave the method of torture up to your imagination. You are correct in assuming that the 2 hour time frame is unsuited for sensory deprivation, however that is generally considered mildly acceptable anyway, so to sum things up, think in the realm of physical torture.

2006-12-08 08:42:46

#5

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6999

CameronPoe wrote:
How about evacuating the fucking city for a start.

I doubt it is possible since in 2 hours time, it will be traffic everywhere and no one can get out.

https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png

2006-12-08 08:43:11

#6

Elamdri: The New Johnnie Cochran; +134|6929|Peoria

CameronPoe wrote:
How about evacuating the fucking city for a start.

You can't evacuate such a large city in 2 hours.

2006-12-08 08:45:18

#7

Parker: isteal; +1,452|6677|The Gem Saloon

i would have assumed that had already been done.......but then again the first thing that will go in america if we get attacked will be the freedom to travel. thats what really freaks me out.
one of these crazy fucks hears about an ebola outbreak in fuckin zaire or some back woods country, and goes and somehow gets ahold of the ebola virus............
worst case, they are smart and breed that virus until they have enough. then they fake a can of shaving cream, into say the detroit auto show that happens once a year......people from all over the world go to see those cars. within a week of exposure 70% of the fuckin planet would be pissin and shittin blood. and with a virus that has a 90% mortality rate, that would be ALOT of dead bodies to deal with.

god im rambling. im sorry, no more paranoia for me.

2006-12-08 08:47:44

#8

Stingray24: Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy; +1,060|6728|The Land of Scott Walker

Parker wrote:
thats a rough one. yes on the first, no on the second. im saying that strictly because most humans posess an animal instinct to protect children. what kind of torture would be used on the terrorist.....there is a two hour time limit, so sensory depravation is out of the question. so we are just talking about good old fashion torture.....the pulling the finger nails out etc.....

that is an attack on an innocent person, and we would be no better than that terrorist if we harmed his daughter.....

2006-12-08 08:50:47

#9

Parker: isteal; +1,452|6677|The Gem Saloon

well ya im all for torturing the terrorists. not much of a bleeding heart for them. things would be different if they played by the rules, but they dont want to so there will definitly be a lack of compassion for them.
however it is worthy to note that within two hours that terrorist could tell you that the nuke was anywhere in that fuckin city and have the authorities on a wild goose chase until that thing turns whatever said city into an oven.
lose-lose situation.
and torture (not sensory depravation) has been proven to provide false answers that are given because thats what the person thinks the interragotars want to hear. read some of the transcripts of our guys in vietnam, or when the soviets would pick up a spy........

2006-12-08 08:52:03

#10

SEREMAKER: BABYMAKIN EXPERT √; +2,187|6851|Mountains of NC

well we coudl go for a 3rd scenario:

https://sillimancollege.org/downloads/SilliflicksMovieList/images/3890f.jpg

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/17445/carhartt.jpg

2006-12-08 08:52:33

#11

Fancy_Pollux: Connoisseur of Fine Wine; +1,306|6929

Yes and Yes.

2006-12-08 08:56:14

#12

weamo8: Member; +50|6725|USA

Fancy_Pollux wrote:
Yes and Yes.

2006-12-08 08:58:13

#13

Elamdri: The New Johnnie Cochran; +134|6929|Peoria

If anyone would like a little insight, this question was one of the questions I had to answer last year when I took my political philosophy course. And of course, it was compounded in difficulty, because On the test, you couldn't condemn one half of the question without condemning the other half, and vice versa.

2006-12-08 09:05:27

#14

CameronPoe: Member; +2,925|6838

I vote no on both counts on the 'innocent until proven guilty' axiom.

2006-12-08 09:08:53

#15

.:XDR:.PureFodder: Member; +105|7112

No.

2006-12-08 09:10:54

#16

sfarrar33: Halogenoalkane; +57|6901|InGerLand

yes to first
sort of to the second
you don't actually harm her but you make it look like you are to the terrorist, like have her in another room and play girly screams from the other sounds and basically what you would expect a tortured girl to sound like, and do really creepy stuff like have blood splat the floor under the door frame when she supposidly screams (so it looks a bit like she'd been whipped and the blood had splattered)
and i dno use pigs blood or something

2006-12-08 09:12:15

#17

Parker: isteal; +1,452|6677|The Gem Saloon

wow man, you should really look into MI5 or MI6 as a career path. you think like those cats.

2006-12-08 09:17:47

#18

Stingray24: Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy; +1,060|6728|The Land of Scott Walker

CameronPoe wrote:
I vote no on both counts on the 'innocent until proven guilty' axiom.

I think you missed this part: We KNOW that this terrorist HAS planted a nuclear bomb somewhere in a large metropolitan area. This area is populated by over a MILLION people.

You would rather allow a million innocent people to die in 2 hours instead of inflicting pain on a terrorist? Glad you don't live here then.

2006-12-08 09:20:15

#19

Stingray24: Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy; +1,060|6728|The Land of Scott Walker

sfarrar33 wrote:
yes to first
sort of to the second
you don't actually harm her but you make it look like you are to the terrorist, like have her in another room and play girly screams from the other sounds and basically what you would expect a tortured girl to sound like, and do really creepy stuff like have blood splat the floor under the door frame when she supposidly screams (so it looks a bit like she'd been whipped and the blood had splattered)
and i dno use pigs blood or something

If he's a hardass terrorist he probably has already resigned himself to his daughter's death and of course his own death.

2006-12-08 09:22:13

#20

GunSlinger OIF II: Banned.; +1,860|6926

i vote for modern technology which will find the nuclear device by finding the radiation

2006-12-08 09:25:19

#21

Penetrator: Certified Twat; +296|6791|Bournemouth, South England

If damaging the life of someone like that means saving millions, then what are ya waiting for? Go fetch the toffee hammer and stanley knife.

The one with the kid? gonna be touch to beat up a kid, but I think (by my military morals) that it is justified. Probably best to not tell the tabloids about that one though.

2006-12-08 09:27:33

#22

Parker: isteal; +1,452|6677|The Gem Saloon

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
i vote for modern technology which will find the nuclear device by finding the radiation

that would be pretty cool, and if the two hour stipulation was not in place i would have made that a viable option as well.

2006-12-08 09:28:55

#23

GunSlinger OIF II: Banned.; +1,860|6926

they have helicopters that will scan the city from above just for scenarios like this. they can detect three different types of radiation pretty accurately, gamma, neutron and alpha.

2006-12-08 09:32:07

#24

Parker: isteal; +1,452|6677|The Gem Saloon

but what are the limitations of that equipment? is it affected by weather? if the bomb was, say in a underground parking garage would they be able to detect it?
i just have a feeling that two hours would not be enough time to find it. it could happen im sure, but ALOT of things would have to go right.

2006-12-08 09:33:46

#25

GunSlinger OIF II: Banned.; +1,860|6926

yes, that was the point in creating that technology, to detect it in the most obvious places like an underground parking garage.

Yes	60%	60% - 21
No	40%	40% - 14
Total: 35

BF2S Forums Utility of actions

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Parker wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Parker wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

sfarrar33 wrote:

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

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