If germany never violated the non-agression pact, most of Europe may well be ruled by the germans. If the unified german warfront overpowered western europe, British propaganda may never have had time to take effect on the US. Without US and other overseas Allied involvement, it is a likely reality that germany may have conquered western Europe. However, a conquered Europe would be a rebellious one, and german rule may have been broken after time.
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Under those circumstances, I'd say continental Europe would be split between the Nazies and the Soviets, and the Pacific War would have also been a lot harder for America to win. We would've had to focus on Europe before really doing much about East Asia. I'd guess we'd probably settle for a truce with the Japanese while trying our damnedest to conquer the Soviets and Nazies.sergeriver wrote:
The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, also known as the Hitler-Stalin Pact or German-Soviet Nonaggression Pact or Nazi-Soviet Pact and formally known as the Treaty of Nonaggression between Germany and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, was a non-aggression treaty between the German Third Reich and the Soviet Union. It was signed in Moscow on August 23, 1939, by the Soviet foreign minister Vyacheslav Molotov and the German foreign minister Joachim von Ribbentrop. The mutual non-aggression treaty lasted until Operation Barbarossa of June 22, 1941, when Nazi Germany invaded the Soviet Union.
We all know what happened later.
Imagine this scenario:
1940-USSR and Germany keep the good relationship and the USSR becomes a definitive part of the Axis. Hitler never attacks Russia. And Soviets help Hitler to fight in Western Europe, declaring war to Allies.
Do you think the Allies could have defeated the Axis?
In case of an Axis victory, how would the World look like today?
Would Hitler and Stalin respect the pact with each other after their victory over Allies?
With our full power focused on Europe and with the help of the British, I think we would've been able to conquer both the Nazies and the Soviets, but we would've lost a lot more people (and so would everyone else). Chances are likely that it would've lasted long enough to escalate to nuclear war.
the point is, that an axis-soviet alliance is unimagineable for me.
but imagine this: what could have been possible was, that the allies and the nazis fight together against
the soviets. hitler tried to get the brits on board and many leaders of the west thought of this possibility, because
they saw a bigger threat in communism, than in fascism.
imagine, what kind of world that would be?
btw. did anybody see the film "fatherland" with rutger hauer?
but imagine this: what could have been possible was, that the allies and the nazis fight together against
the soviets. hitler tried to get the brits on board and many leaders of the west thought of this possibility, because
they saw a bigger threat in communism, than in fascism.
imagine, what kind of world that would be?
btw. did anybody see the film "fatherland" with rutger hauer?
Never would have happened. The USSR and the Nazi's hated each other.
I think we wouldn't have our independence...
The defence succeeded against Russia alone, but had Germany been fighting against Finland too, we would have lost.
The defence succeeded against Russia alone, but had Germany been fighting against Finland too, we would have lost.
But they were "close friends" before Hitler fucked things up.Bubbalo wrote:
Never would have happened. The USSR and the Nazi's hated each other.
Last edited by sergeriver (2006-12-05 06:37:11)
Allies of convenience I'd call it. Hardly close friends, both were extremely wary of the other and the ideals of facism and communism are not very closely aligned.sergeriver wrote:
But they were "close friends" before Hitler fucked things up.Bubbalo wrote:
Never would have happened. The USSR and the Nazi's hated each other.
Although the Russians showed absolutely no sign of betraying Hitler, they had, on several occasions, invited German officers to parties, invitations which the Germans, of course, declined.
they were NOT close friends. as i said before: part of the nazi ideology was, that there are races and ideologies, that have to be eliminated. these were jews and communists. how can a nazi be a close friend to a communist?sergeriver wrote:
But they were "close friends" before Hitler fucked things up.
there might be contacts on personal level and there might be collaboration, but the systems where total antipodes and so there was no chance at all for an axis.
That's why it says "close friends" with "". But they had a deal, which Hitler broke invading Russia.[pt] KEIOS wrote:
they were NOT close friends. as i said before: part of the nazi ideology was, that there are races and ideologies, that have to be eliminated. these were jews and communists. how can a nazi be a close friend to a communist?sergeriver wrote:
But they were "close friends" before Hitler fucked things up.
there might be contacts on personal level and there might be collaboration, but the systems where total antipodes and so there was no chance at all for an axis.
sure they got a deal. but both sides knew, that they only got a little more time for preparation with that. when you are not able, to attack your enemy yet, make sure he doesn´t do it...
both systems were expanding and willing to fight - but germany thought, it was ready first.
hitler also conquered western europe, to have enough troops free for the invasion of the east.
both systems were expanding and willing to fight - but germany thought, it was ready first.
hitler also conquered western europe, to have enough troops free for the invasion of the east.
What you are saying is right, but forget for a minute they weren't friends, and think what would have happened if Hitler would have fought in Western Europe with all of his troops.[pt] KEIOS wrote:
sure they got a deal. but both sides knew, that they only got a little more time for preparation with that. when you are not able, to attack your enemy yet, make sure he doesn´t do it...
both systems were expanding and willing to fight - but germany thought, it was ready first.
hitler also conquered western europe, to have enough troops free for the invasion of the east.
What if Hitler and Stalin became Buddies and shared the world?
England would have been pwnd... and i could write in german, weil die welt dann deutsch als weltsprache hätte und wir die dicken suv fahren würden
but that could never have happened... but an alliance with the nazis against the communists was possible.. and that scares me...
England would have been pwnd... and i could write in german, weil die welt dann deutsch als weltsprache hätte und wir die dicken suv fahren würden
but that could never have happened... but an alliance with the nazis against the communists was possible.. and that scares me...
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